Housing 8 hard disks

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visualpopcorn

I have 8 full, 3.5" 120mb ATA Drives, that I have collected over time.

At present I use a non hotswappable removeable ide caddy system to view
files on each disk, the problem being I am only able to access one disk
at a time:( To look for something requires a hell of a lot of swapping.

Is it possible to house the 8 disks in a seperate pc case or rack,
external to my computer, but where I could access them all live??

I guess, I could place each disk into a usb removeable case with
external power supply, but I am concerned having 8 devices running at
the same time would draw alot of power:)

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,

James
 
visualpopcorn said:
I have 8 full, 3.5" 120mb ATA Drives, that I have collected over time.

At present I use a non hotswappable removeable ide caddy system to view
files on each disk, the problem being I am only able to access one disk
at a time:( To look for something requires a hell of a lot of swapping.

Is it possible to house the 8 disks in a seperate pc case or rack,
external to my computer, but where I could access them all live??

I guess, I could place each disk into a usb removeable case with
external power supply, but I am concerned having 8 devices running at
the same time would draw alot of power:)

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

As cheap as HD storage has become, is there any possibility of
consolidating your drives? In other words, do you have the data on
seperate *physical* drives?
 
I have 8 full, 3.5" 120mb ATA Drives, that I have collected over time.

At present I use a non hotswappable removeable ide caddy system to view
files on each disk, the problem being I am only able to access one disk
at a time:( To look for something requires a hell of a lot of swapping.

Is it possible to house the 8 disks in a seperate pc case or rack,
external to my computer, but where I could access them all live??
Click to expand...

The standard way of doing this is to use that PC case, with
the computer in it too- a fileserver on the LAN. Determing
access speed requirement will then suggest a LAN speed.
Today Gigibit ethernet is the most cost-effective, as you
can get a couple of cheap NICs and a switch for under $100.

I guess, I could place each disk into a usb removeable case with
external power supply, but I am concerned having 8 devices running at
the same time would draw alot of power:)
Click to expand...


If you want them all available without having to swap them
around, yet they will use "more" power than fewer, but no
matter how you set it up, the total consumption of the
drives is the same. What changes some is the eficiency of
the supply- it's most likely you would see higher supply
efficiency from a single supply powering all than multiple
smaller supplies. When in a server, that increases power
usage but also allows drives to spin down.

Given that you already have close to 1TB of data and (if
continuing in the same data acquisition trend) that will
only continue to grow, I would suggest the server, even if
you did as a prior poster suggested and consolidated some
data onto larger drives.

However, if you have multiple PCs already, you could simply
spread out the drives among them and map to them, providing
they're always up and running. While this can save cost and
space (to place an additional system), IMO it's better not
to have (human) users of the systems holding your stored
data, particularly if they're less tech-savvy than you and
might be a liability to the system uptime or data.
 
The data is on seperate physical drives. Each disk may or may not have
unique files:) My main problem is that I only have 2 bays available in
my PC - I would need 2 very big expensive Hard-disks :)
 
Thanks, Kony & Grinder


Yeah , probably the cheapest solution is a server box with a host
adapter capable of handling 8 devices. I just worry about the access
times even with a giga bit connection:). Unfortunately my files are
very large graphic files - on average around 600mb each:)

If only I could attach an ide to usb converter cable thingy with power
for each disk - and just sit them (the drives) in another machine:)



James
 
Thanks, Kony & Grinder


Yeah , probably the cheapest solution is a server box with a host
adapter capable of handling 8 devices. I just worry about the access
times even with a giga bit connection:). Unfortunately my files are
very large graphic files - on average around 600mb each:)
Click to expand...

Gigabit lan access is much faster for large files than
smaller ones... due largely to TCP/IP overhead.

The typical post-2000 system could expect over 25MB/s with
large files- even higher with relatively modern 120GB
drives, depending (as in any scenario) on how fragmented
they are and whether data is on the outer/faster or
inner/slower portion of a drive. So 25MB is not a peak or
minimum, "maybe" the average I'd guesstimate per your
described use.

If only I could attach an ide to usb converter cable thingy with power
for each disk - and just sit them (the drives) in another machine:)
Click to expand...

USB2 is often no faster than GbE for large files- sometimes
even slower... the performance difference between the two
can be small.

You could use one USB adapter per drive though, but put a
power supply in the case holding the drives, one standard
PSU to power all of them. IMO, you'd be better off with a
regular server though- it need not be a high performance
system, 400 MHz P2 or better would suffice, perhaps a bit
more (around 600-700Mhz) being more optimal if you'd use a
soft-raid controller.
 
visualpopcorn wrote:

" I have 8 full, 3.5" 120mb ATA Drives, that I have collected over time. "


8x 120MB is less than 1GB. Throw them in the trash and buy yourself a
proper hard disk.
 
IMO, you'd be better off with a
regular server though- it need not be a high performance
system, 400 MHz P2 or better would suffice
Click to expand...

In Houston:
http://www.directron.com/directron/gxa.html

Used Pentium III 450MHz Desktop Computer System w/ DVD-ROM drive,
floppy drive, 6.1GB hard drive (HDD), 10/100 network card (LAN), Audio
(sound card), and Video card. These refurbished computers were working
ones replaced from [Houston] school district classrooms.

# Specifications: CPU: Pentium 3 450 MHz;
# Memory: 128MB;
# Hard Drive: Seagate 6.1GB;
# Optical Drive: Sony DVD-ROM;
# Floppy Drive: TEAC 1.44MB;
# LAN: Onboard;
# Audio: Creative SoundBlaster PCI 128 CT4700 onboard;
# Video: 8MB ATI Xpert 98 or Rage Pro 2X AGP onboard;
# Ports: 2USB, 1Parallel, 2Serial;
# Motherboard: Original Intel board.
# Case: Inwin Desktop with PowerMan power supply. The power supply
includes an extra AC plug for accessories/peripherals.
# Operating System: Windows 95 or 98;
# Software: Office Suite 97 and others

On Sale: $69.00.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism."
--John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty"
 
visualpopcorn said:
I have 8 full, 3.5" 120mb ATA Drives, that I have collected over time.

At present I use a non hotswappable removeable ide caddy system to view
files on each disk, the problem being I am only able to access one disk
at a time:( To look for something requires a hell of a lot of swapping.

Is it possible to house the 8 disks in a seperate pc case or rack,
external to my computer, but where I could access them all live??

I guess, I could place each disk into a usb removeable case with
external power supply, but I am concerned having 8 devices running at
the same time would draw alot of power:)

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Click to expand...


All you need to do is get a large case and build your machine in it.
then add two pci controller cards.

If you don't need a cdrom...or can get by with just 7 drives...
you'd only need one controller card (as you have 4 ide channels on the mobo)

you will of course need a fairly decent powersupply
and good ventilation
 
visualpopcorn said:
I have 8 full, 3.5" 120mb ATA Drives, that I have collected over time.

At present I use a non hotswappable removeable ide caddy system to
view
files on each disk, the problem being I am only able to access one
disk
at a time:( To look for something requires a hell of a lot of
swapping.

Is it possible to house the 8 disks in a seperate pc case or rack,
external to my computer, but where I could access them all live??

I guess, I could place each disk into a usb removeable case with
external power supply, but I am concerned having 8 devices running at
the same time would draw alot of power:)
Click to expand...


I remember way back when just after the dinosaurs disappeared that the
first PC-XT boxes came with a 5MB drive and the PC-AT came with a 10MB
hard drive. However, it has been around a couple decades since I've
seen something as small as a 120 *megabyte* hard drive. Even a lowly
20GB hard drive at $50 (newegg.com) would be cheaper than buying
external powered USB drive boxes or building a server with gigabyte
NICs.
 
Bob said:
IMO, you'd be better off with a regular server though- it need not
be a high performance system, 400 MHz P2 or better would suffice
Click to expand...

In Houston:
http://www.directron.com/directron/gxa.html

Used Pentium III 450MHz Desktop Computer System w/ DVD-ROM drive,
floppy drive, 6.1GB hard drive (HDD), 10/100 network card (LAN),
Audio (sound card), and Video card. These refurbished computers
were working ones replaced from [Houston] school district classrooms.

# Specifications: CPU: Pentium 3 450 MHz;
# Memory: 128MB;
# Hard Drive: Seagate 6.1GB;
# Optical Drive: Sony DVD-ROM;
# Floppy Drive: TEAC 1.44MB;
# LAN: Onboard;
# Audio: Creative SoundBlaster PCI 128 CT4700 onboard;
# Video: 8MB ATI Xpert 98 or Rage Pro 2X AGP onboard;
# Ports: 2USB, 1Parallel, 2Serial;
# Motherboard: Original Intel board.
# Case: Inwin Desktop with PowerMan power supply. The power supply
includes an extra AC plug for accessories/peripherals.
# Operating System: Windows 95 or 98;
# Software: Office Suite 97 and others

On Sale: $69.00.
Click to expand...

I bought one of those a short time ago, although I suspect it is
not identical. I am well satisfied. This one could house 4 ide
drives if the floppy and DVD were removed. It could take 5, but I
would be highly suspicious of the drive cooling. So two of them
could house your 8 drives, and have the network interface. I am
using it to write this.

The one I got has an Intel MB and ECC capabilities, although no ECC
memory is installed. So if you need reliability there is a
considerable memory replacement cost. The bios handles drives over
8 GB, although I suspect the limit is 120 or so GB per drive. Can
run Linux - I am experimenting with an old RH 6.1, and am going to
try a Mandrake 8.0, because the RH has no FAT file system
capability.
 
visualpopcorn said:
The data is on seperate physical drives. Each disk
may or may not have unique files:)
Click to expand...

Folders would take care of that, or you could set up as many *logical*
drives as you need to mimic the segregation of data you have with the
*physical* drives now.
My main problem is that I only have 2 bays available
in my PC - I would need 2 very big expensive
Hard-disks :)
Click to expand...

How large are your eight drives?

I recently was able to purchase 200Gb drives at $70 a pop, and the price
per Gb just keeps falling. If your drives are very old at all,
fitting four of them onto a newer, larger drive might not be a problem.

How large are each of your eight drives?
 
visualpopcorn said:
The data is on seperate physical drives. Each disk may or may not have
unique files:) My main problem is that I only have 2 bays available in
my PC - I would need 2 very big expensive Hard-disks :)
Click to expand...

Oops, sorry. I just realized that I overlooked your description of
drive capacities. Please ignore my queries in that regard.
 
hi there,

one option im looking into, is getting a PCI card which has two IDE sockets
on it.

(not unlike raid - though this card is not a raid card).

this way i have access to 4 devices of my MOBO IDE 1 and 2, and then the
four
devices off the PCI cards IDE 3 and 4. well this would add up to eight!

mind you one of these would have to include the C drive, and another the DVD
burner,
which would still leave me 6 extra hard drives.

BTW i believe that it is possible to get a PCI card with 4 IDE sockets on
it - i'm not sure
if this is a raid card or not.

also if you want to go for a raid configuration, why not try the Promise IDE
raid controller.

cheers.
p.j.
 
This one could house 4 ide
drives if the floppy and DVD were removed.
Click to expand...

I suppose the reason for removing the floppy is an extra 3.5" drive
bay.
It could take 5,
Click to expand...

But the IDE HD controller only has 4 ports???
but I would be highly suspicious of the drive cooling.
Click to expand...

More fans?
So two of them
could house your 8 drives, and have the network interface.
Click to expand...

Why not a second IDE controller card?


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism."
--John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty"
 
I bought one of those a short time ago, although I suspect it is
not identical. I am well satisfied.
Click to expand...

That's because most Houston Independent School District students never
actually used them. They are essentially brand new.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism."
--John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty"
 
I`ve read a lot of suggestions in this thread, and I still think you should
consider
a USB\FWire enclosure with, say, a 200Gig HD. Partition it into 2 (easier to
control for cleaning and\or reformatting). Transfer all your spare drives on
to one, and stick `em all in a cupbard. I use an `Icybox` USB\FWire
enclosure.
It`s got it`s own power supply and it`s Great, honestly. Oooh you have got a
nice tidy setup there. <g> best wishes..J
 
visualpopcorn said:
I have 8 full, 3.5" 120mb ATA Drives, that I have collected over time.
Click to expand...

I assume you mean 120GB. Once you get beyond the sarcasm about that...

The computer I built in my garage last night is not too far from what you
had in mind. It's 100% salvaged parts.

The case was an AT "Full Tower" 486, with a 300W power supply and six
half-height (CD-sized) bays. Into this with a fair bit of drilling and
improvising went a PIII 450 MHz mainboard and another small power supply, a
150W ATX unit salvaged from an e-Machines tower.

The mainboard is sideways in the box, so the IDE channels are at the top
edge of the board while the connectors face straight down. That means I
have to pull the cover off to connect the monitor. The KB and mouse plug in
at the most accessible corner, though.

In the lower part of the case, in the space left over, is a drive cage set
sideways with a floppy and a small (2.5GB) hard drive, powered by the same
small PS that powers the mainboard. This little drive, on the primary ATA
channel, controls the system. Up above I installed a CD-ROM just long enough
to load an OS onto the drive, then removed it.

Three Promise ATA cards went into the PCI slots ( video is AGP and the sound
card is ISA on this machine). Each channel of the three Promise cards gets
a single-ended cable running up to the drive bay area. Drives in the upper
section are powered by the 300W AT power supply from the 486, which must be
switched on independently of the mainboard.

The purpose of my project machine is to test and zero-fill salvaged drives,
mostly to remove data left on them by recycling clients. The majority of
the drives will be melted down after testing, but we will keep those over 6
GB for some other projects we're working on.

If, however, you filled the bays with your eight drives and installed a
Gigabit Ethernet card, networked it to your other one and mapped the drives,
you'd have a server of sorts.

Old computers like this are all over the place and pretty cheap to buy. I
think for your use I'd scout around for a tall case with at least a Pentium
II (to be sure it will handle drives over 8.4GB) and then just see what you
can cram into it.

And one last piece of advice: Catalog the files on those drives. Take an
afternoon to print out the directories on each one, and put them in a
loose-leaf notebook. Then, at least, you'll know which drive to search.
 
IMO, you'd be better off with a
regular server though- it need not be a high performance
system, 400 MHz P2 or better would suffice
Click to expand...

In Houston:
http://www.directron.com/directron/gxa.html

Used Pentium III 450MHz Desktop Computer System w/ DVD-ROM drive,
floppy drive, 6.1GB hard drive (HDD), 10/100 network card (LAN), Audio
(sound card), and Video card. These refurbished computers were working
ones replaced from [Houston] school district classrooms.

# Specifications: CPU: Pentium 3 450 MHz;
# Memory: 128MB;
# Hard Drive: Seagate 6.1GB;
# Optical Drive: Sony DVD-ROM;
# Floppy Drive: TEAC 1.44MB;
# LAN: Onboard;
# Audio: Creative SoundBlaster PCI 128 CT4700 onboard;
# Video: 8MB ATI Xpert 98 or Rage Pro 2X AGP onboard;
# Ports: 2USB, 1Parallel, 2Serial;
# Motherboard: Original Intel board.
# Case: Inwin Desktop with PowerMan power supply. The power supply
includes an extra AC plug for accessories/peripherals.
# Operating System: Windows 95 or 98;
# Software: Office Suite 97 and others

On Sale: $69.00.
Click to expand...

That's not a bad deal but for a fileserver there are a few
things that need changed.

- Add more memory
- Modify the front bezel and case frame (does not even
begin to have enough airflow, rear or intake for more than 2
drives. # of bays does not equal # of cool drives. If the 5
1/4 bays were used, they could have bay coolers with fans
installed, not passive intake as there is only one rear fan
on the PSU... alone it is not enough for drive cooling which
is of paramount concern in a filesever- as it's sole purpose
is the fitness of the drives/data.

- Add a Gb NIC, easy enough.

- Add an IDE controller, SCSI/PATA/SATA, whichever.

- ECC memory, depending on how crucial the data is.

- Different OS, Win9x is not suited for this... it'd work
after that 45 (or 40-something) day bug is removed, in that
9x can't stay up that long without rebooting. MS has the
patch on their 'site, or at least they used to. Regardless,
Linux is free and Win2K/XP/etc for those more comfortable
with them- though it slightly increases memory needs again.
 
I`ve read a lot of suggestions in this thread, and I still think you should
consider
a USB\FWire enclosure with, say, a 200Gig HD. Partition it into 2 (easier to
control for cleaning and\or reformatting). Transfer all your spare drives on
to one, and stick `em all in a cupbard. I use an `Icybox` USB\FWire
enclosure.
It`s got it`s own power supply and it`s Great, honestly. Oooh you have got a
nice tidy setup there. <g> best wishes..J
Click to expand...

I suppose I'd assumed "120MB" meant 120GB... surely nobody
is trying to use 8 x 120MB drives for anything. That's 5
enclosures already full if he used 200GB drives... too many
to fiddle with, IMO. 300+GB drives are still at a
price-disparty so I'd have to think he'd have already bought
them if that was a viable solution... for the price
difference he could easily buy a box like the one Bob
linked, or any-random-salvaged box, it's not hard to come
upon a box with a PCI slot, and a couple of $15 IDE
controllers yields 48bit LBA support for larger drives,
ATA133, RAID, etc.
 
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