HL2 Delayed...its offical

  • Thread starter Thread starter Steve D
  • Start date Start date
By as long as it takes to recode for decent performance on Nvidia cards.
Merry Christmas.


Wrong direction, I suspect..

HL2 is pretty certainly being delayed for Steam, whatever about other
reasons.

Steam is Valve's golden calf (goose, turkey...). It is the mechanism
by which Valve is intending to make sure that all copies of HL2 are
paid for. Endeavoring to hack in a Steam environment should
be a very intriguing and uncomfortable exercise for the hacker(s).
However, Steam is still a work-in-progress.

Notice that availability of Counterstrike: Condition Zero, another
Steam-enabled game has been moved to 14 November,
exactly the same date as HL2..............

John Lewis
 
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John said:
Steam is Valve's golden calf (goose, turkey...). It is the mechanism
by which Valve is intending to make sure that all copies of HL2 are
paid for.

Based on what did you draw that conclusion? Valve have stated it will be
possible to buy HL2 in the store and play without internet connectivity at
all as far as the singleplayer game is concerned. In other words, HL2
single player will be all over the net a few hours after its release. As
far as multiplayer is concerned Steam replaces the old system for
authenticating so no real news there as far as I can tell.


- --
Frode

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Be interesting to see if they, Valve, decide to tell the public the reason
for delay, which I imagine is due to trying to fix Nvidias screw-ups so at
least the right ppl are blamed for the delay
 
Frode said:
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Based on what did you draw that conclusion? Valve have stated it will be
possible to buy HL2 in the store and play without internet connectivity at
all as far as the singleplayer game is concerned. In other words, HL2
single player will be all over the net a few hours after its release. As
far as multiplayer is concerned Steam replaces the old system for
authenticating so no real news there as far as I can tell.

As far as I am aware steam is being shipped with Half Life 2. Whether or not
it will be installed without choice is unclear. Will it be able to be
disabled when an online connection is established? Havn't a clue. I don't
think there is any doubt though that Steam is why there has been the delay.
Half Life has only become what it has due to it's online following - and I
am very sure they will hope to continue that trend with the new release.

Battlefield is a good example of this - sure the game has a single player
mode but that is merely a token gesture - it has been designed with online
play as it's main forte.

Sure you can play HL2 without internet connectivity, but what happens when
you do connect? Will steam authenticate the games automatically? If even one
of these questions is answered yes then Valve are walking on a potential
land mine of privacy.

Daniel
 
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Daniel said:
As far as I am aware steam is being shipped with Half Life 2. Whether or
not it will be installed without choice is unclear.

Whether it's installed or not isn't really the issue. Whether it connects
to the net is. And that's in the Steam FAQ. Once you "activate any Steam
functionality" is listed as the turning point between being able to play
single player HL2 without going online for authentication and having to be
connected. After you've "activated" (that would include online play,
probably also patching) you're then stuck having to be online when starting
the game even for single player. IIRC you can disconnect from the net after
the authentication is done though.

I would be very surprised if HL2 asks you to pop in the CD to install Steam
the first time you click "online" though, so I think it's a safe bet it'll
be installed along with the game by default.
disabled when an online connection is established? Havn't a clue. I don't
think there is any doubt though that Steam is why there has been the
delay.

Considering Steam couldn't even handle the minor onslaught following the
"official Steam release" I'd say that's a fair guess yeah. Even if the
reason is elsewhere, the current state of Steam would've delayed release
either way. They'll need a much improved throttling/queueing system (as
opposed to the apparent lack of any such thing whatsoever currently) or a
vast amount of additional content providers before they can even consider
release a possibility imo.
Sure you can play HL2 without internet connectivity, but what happens
when you do connect? Will steam authenticate the games automatically? If
even one of these questions is answered yes then Valve are walking on a
potential land mine of privacy.

Not any more so than any other game that needs to be authenticated to play
online as far as I can see. HL1 being one example as far as I know.


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Frode


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Bratboy said:
Be interesting to see if they, Valve, decide to tell the public the reason
for delay, which I imagine is due to trying to fix Nvidias screw-ups so at
least the right ppl are blamed for the delay

Oh grow up you fanATIc
 
Be interesting to see if they, Valve, decide to tell the public the reason
for delay, which I imagine is due to trying to fix Nvidias screw-ups so at
least the right ppl are blamed for the delay

Oh come on now. Valve stated they've spent far too much time already on
trying to fix Nvidia's poor DX9 performance, I don't think they want to
spend even one more second on it, not when they said the most effective
optimisation they could have done would be to just treat the card like it
was DX8 and then be done with it.

Likely they need some more time to bugfix their game, or Steam. You all know
how badly bugged some games have been on release (Morrowind... *cough*),
Valve don't want their baby's reputation to be tarnished by being buggy I
wager.
 
Daniel Yates said:
Oh grow up you fanATIc

Whatever....All I said was would be nice if valve said why and then I
offered a supposition that the cause was Nvidia again based on previous
comments/complaints from Valve concerning Nvidia. I didnt say it was a fact
now did I so you can just BITE ME. Nvidiots have been ranting for a while
how its all a plot by ATI/Valve to make Nvidia look bad and sell more ATI
cards which is absolute hog wash. As Ive said before I own BOTH an ATI 9800
pro & a Gainward Fx5600 ultra GS so I prolly have more room to talk about
comparing cards etc and wanting to see things run RIGHT just pn both because
I own both. The simple truth is even if this NEW delay isnt related to NV,
although I wont be suprised if it is, some of the previous slowdowns have
been caused by trying to fix their screw-up. As a Nvidia card owner I think
I DO have a right to be irritated that they touted its great dx9 quality
only to discover later that the great DX9 performance is only if they can
get it coded their way because of THEIR deviation from standard set in DX9
or when they release a new and improved performance drivers that is really
not an improvement but instead a trade off of IQ to push up their
performance in a bench. I really do think I have the right to be pissed at
em. So which FX card do you OWN?
 
i know NOTHING on steam - first i heard of it was i here.. but havent you
guys rememebered the last time you installed windows XP?

you either connect to the net or ring up to activate your copy. couldnt
valve do something similar with steam?

tim
 
Bratboy said:
so

Whatever....All I said was would be nice if valve said why and then I
offered a supposition that the cause was Nvidia again based on previous
comments/complaints from Valve concerning Nvidia. I didnt say it was a fact
now did I so you can just BITE ME. Nvidiots have been ranting for a while
how its all a plot by ATI/Valve to make Nvidia look bad and sell more ATI
cards which is absolute hog wash.

Agreed on that one

As Ive said before I own BOTH an ATI 9800
pro & a Gainward Fx5600 ultra GS so I prolly have more room to talk about
comparing cards etc and wanting to see things run RIGHT just pn both because
I own both. The simple truth is even if this NEW delay isnt related to NV,
although I wont be suprised if it is, some of the previous slowdowns have
been caused by trying to fix their screw-up. As a Nvidia card owner I think
I DO have a right to be irritated that they touted its great dx9 quality
only to discover later that the great DX9 performance is only if they can
get it coded their way because of THEIR deviation from standard set in DX9
or when they release a new and improved performance drivers that is really
not an improvement but instead a trade off of IQ to push up their
performance in a bench. I really do think I have the right to be pissed at
em. So which FX card do you OWN?

Fortunatly I wasn't gullible enough to get on the FX bandwagon. I refuse to
pay that amount of money for a card which to be quite frank can hardly out
perform the force 4 ti's. I have tried both a FX5200 128 and a 5600 128 that
my uncle has and they are hopeless. As far as actual games performance goes
I found the cards laughable, but I am not going to start a rant about that
now. There is a good reason why a 5200 128 can be bought for £45 where-as a
ti4200 128 will still set you back £90

The fact is you have a beef with nVidia ( which is fair enough ) but there
is no EVIDENCE to indicate that they are to blame for the delayed release
date. I only gt wound up simply bcause there is always so much assumption
made in newsgroups - no evidence provided, just guess work here and there.

What is making me laugh is that no one has come up with what would be the
most OBVIOUS reason for why the game has been delayed - they havn't finished
it yet.

Peace

Daniel - the fanATIcal nVidiot
 
Daniel Yates said:
.....
The fact is you have a beef with nVidia ( which is fair enough ) but there
is no EVIDENCE to indicate that they are to blame for the delayed release
date. I only gt wound up simply bcause there is always so much assumption
made in newsgroups - no evidence provided, just guess work here and there.

What is making me laugh is that no one has come up with what would be the
most OBVIOUS reason for why the game has been delayed - they havn't finished
it yet.

Peace

Daniel - the fanATIcal nVidiot

I agree that the reason could be anything hehe and may , this time anyway,
be in no way related to Nvidias need for special coding. I still think that
Valve might be further along if they hadnt already wasted a bunch of time,
money and manpower on the Nvidia issues. I do realize that whats best for
the Dev is writting the game to run on as many systems as possible for the
coinage it will bring but at some point I really think the Dev's need to
draw a line in the sand and say something to the effect of "we will do what
we can but we wont hold up everyone for you" then if the game comes out and
certain cards don't run it well still the pressure will be on the card
creator not the dev to fix the problems they may have created. As it stands
you get companies like Nvidia demanding special coding so they look good
which costs devs time and money Nvidia isnt volunteering to pay, and which I
can't help but expect the Devs/publisher to pass on to us end users. All
because of Nvidia not sticking to the standard in the first place which
would of negated this issue entirly I think.

Anyway sorry for the growl, been one of those weeks including fighting to
install XP on an atique box hehe.
Just Jess Jesting
 
If it was true, wouldn't Valve release the game on schedule and then release
a patch fixing the FX problem after the fact?

Dave
 
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() |V| 3 G A said:
i know NOTHING on steam - first i heard of it was i here.. but havent you
guys rememebered the last time you installed windows XP?
you either connect to the net or ring up to activate your copy. couldnt
valve do something similar with steam?

That wouldn't make any difference when it comes to preventing pirated
copies from being played online. You can download key generators for XP all
over the net and activate it yourself without any interaction with
Microsoft. The same is true of any "one-time" activation they could use for
HL. They need to verify that you have a valid serial # each time or it's
pointless as far as preventing people using unauthorized copies online.

The authentication on singleplayer is pointless in itself(since it's not
there by default, only after you activate Steam for whatever reason. In
other words, they should find a way of removing that need for singleplayer
gaming, regardless of whether you've ever used it for online gaming.


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Frode

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Bratboy said:
so

Whatever....All I said was would be nice if valve said why and then I
offered a supposition that the cause was Nvidia again based on previous
comments/complaints from Valve concerning Nvidia. I didnt say it was a fact
now did I so you can just BITE ME. Nvidiots have been ranting for a while
how its all a plot by ATI/Valve to make Nvidia look bad and sell more ATI

I seriously doubt it was a video problem, instead I'd imagine its delayed
because it just isn't quite ready for release yet like Doom3

Besides most people who will end up playing it won't know or care about FPS
or DX-9 or pixel shaders
 
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Based on what did you draw that conclusion? Valve have stated it will be
possible to buy HL2 in the store and play without internet connectivity at
all as far as the singleplayer game is concerned. In other words, HL2
single player will be all over the net a few hours after its release. As
far as multiplayer is concerned Steam replaces the old system for
authenticating so no real news there as far as I can tell.

The single-player game is very likely to be playable AS SHIPPED
without any on-line authentication. For practical reasons........You
buy a game, bring it home and can't play it at all because the
authentication servers are full with the thousands of other who
bought it on the same day ? Valve are not that naive....... !!!
Authentication will obviously be required for Internet-play
and local-LAN authentication is still a ??

( Have you noticed that Valve is very closed-mouth about
the functional specification for Steam? Now that Steam has
been released to the public, the complete functional spec
for the public Steam release obviously exists and no doubt
has also been provided to other developers interested in
licensing the Steam technology. Anybody with a link to the
complete functional spec for Steam please post it here !
Can't find it on www.steampowered.com. )

Steam connectivity gives Valve the ability to change all files at will
including the game .exe and any that deal with client authentication.

You may (?) be able to rip off the CD version as shipped, but
any patched, updated version including SP/ local-LAN, the hackers
will be screwed. The Steam download/authentication engine
will have taken over. How Steam will deal with the theft of
legitimate user-keys is not clear. ( The usual game returned-for-
exchange trick ). Can't use physical CD-validation of any sort,
since Steam is intended for download game-purchase, as well
as retail. May use a MS- XP style hardware probe scheme. If so,
should be very interesting for a re-install on a different or updated
HW configuration. MS can afford world-wide immediate telephone
support at 2AM for their pro products... but for a game, naw... !!
Even MS don't copy-protect their games that way, however they
don't download-sell them (yet) either.

And if you think that you can re-install the game at any time,
plus patch(es) from your local patch archives, forget it.The only
game update/patch mechanism announced by Valve is Steam
download...........Then re-authenticate after install. Should please
the non-broadband game purchaser a great deal.......

And should Valve/Steam ever go belly up, you may either be able
to play the original CDs just as they come (no Internet-play of
course) or use them as coasters. It is diifficult to see
how Valve could issue stand-alone patches without the risk
of piracy.......code download flexibility is the likely mechanism
which Valve will use to keep ahead of the pirates.

Valve may eventually provide a tool for the user can
automatically image, compress and store the Steam cache
together with the Steam auto-start, so that a re-install
on unchanged hardware would not require a massive
download. Would still need secure protection against
unauthorized duplication and distribution. Nothing
announced so far..........

Steam is a complete copy-protection/download-sales/
pay-for-play-capable game-distribution system. It does have superb
game-update capability and game-cheat protection including immediate
denial of service for persistent offenders. These bells and whistles
mask Steam's true intent as a business tool to ensure that developers
get the full revenue they deserve. However, its Achilles heel is that
it requires a broadband connection and vast server-capacity for
near-transparent operation. If Valve's intention is to serve the
broadband market only with their new games, they are right
on-the-money. If the majority of the immediate-future market for
Valve games is non-broadband, they may have shot themselves
through the foot or worse..........

John Lewis
 
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