High end laptop: Recommendations?

[Terry Pinnell]

I realise that this is going to boil down largely to personal preferences,
but I'd appreciate suggestions please.

In many years of PC usage I've never owned a laptop. But I'd now like to
treat myself to a reliable, high spec, i7 model. Apart from top end
performance, large RAM and HD, other factors that come immediately to mind
are an impressive screen and that it should be as easy to use as possible.
(For laptops, that last one is probably hard: the main reasons I've never
had one is that I'm useless without my mouse!)

I would have considered a 'netbook', as internet capability and
portability are also important requirements. But I understand that
category wouldn't cover my high performance spec (which I need in
particular for video and DVD authoring.)

If I'm OT for this group, my apologies. Perhaps someone could point me to
a group or forum where I'm likely to get objective advice please?

 

[BillW50]

In

I realise that this is going to boil down largely to personal
preferences, but I'd appreciate suggestions please.

In many years of PC usage I've never owned a laptop. But I'd now like
to treat myself to a reliable, high spec, i7 model. Apart from top end
performance, large RAM and HD, other factors that come immediately to
mind are an impressive screen and that it should be as easy to use as
possible. (For laptops, that last one is probably hard: the main
reasons I've never had one is that I'm useless without my mouse!)

I would have considered a 'netbook', as internet capability and
portability are also important requirements. But I understand that
category wouldn't cover my high performance spec (which I need in
particular for video and DVD authoring.)

If I'm OT for this group, my apologies. Perhaps someone could point
me to a group or forum where I'm likely to get objective advice
please?

Well my first laptop was back in '84, and I have bought dozens since
then. The mass majority of them still work too. And I don't care for
desktops too much because they are generally large, noisy, and energy
hungry. But that is just me.

And why are you limiting your choice to just one laptop? Yes I have
three netbooks too and they are great for simple tasks like email and
browsing the Internet. Also they are small and light. I even grabbed one
for a two month trip and I was really curious if I would be annoyed to
no end by the end of it. And I was really surprised, I wasn't annoyed at
all. I could see lots of people using them as their only computer. They
even work well connected to an external monitor, keyboard, and mouse.

You asked about reliable. And I don't know anybody who could answer that
truthfully until the test of time has taken its toll on a given model.
By then, you are probably not interested in older machines anymore. So
you see the problem here? And while some brag about some manufactures
and bad mouth others, the truth is they all have their great models and
their not so great models.

And I don't know much about high end laptops except for my five
Alienware gaming laptops. And while I have done some DVD authoring on a
netbook before, I wouldn't recommend it. Anyway these high end machines
comes in at a price (in more ways than one). As any high power machine
probably will never make it in the high reliability category. As these
portable Little Suzy Bake Ovens stresses the chips and PCB to their
limits. And if you can get 5 years of trouble free service out of one,
you were lucky.

 

[John John MVP]

I realise that this is going to boil down largely to personal preferences,
but I'd appreciate suggestions please.

In many years of PC usage I've never owned a laptop. But I'd now like to
treat myself to a reliable, high spec, i7 model. Apart from top end
performance, large RAM and HD, other factors that come immediately to mind
are an impressive screen and that it should be as hateasy to use as possible.
(For laptops, that last one is probably hard: the main reasons I've never
had one is that I'm useless without my mouse!)

I would have considered a 'netbook', as internet capability and
portability are also important requirements. But I understand that
category wouldn't cover my high performance spec (which I need in
particular for video and DVD authoring.)

If I'm OT for this group, my apologies. Perhaps someone could point me to
a group or forum where I'm likely to get objective advice please?

How much money do you want to spend on this laptop?

Are you going to use this laptop at home only (or most of the time or
will you pack it around a lot? If you pack it around a lot you may find
that a 15 inch is a bit heavy and slightly bulky and you may regret not
getting that tiny looking 14 inch model...

Have you decided on a screen size and resolution? A 17 inch laptop is
not rally a "laptop". Text on a 14" 1920 x 1080 HD panel can be pretty
difficult to read. If you want to connect or use Intel's WIDI to stream
to your large HD plasma/LCD tv 1920 x 1020 is a must.

I find that there are several compromises to be made when purchasing a
laptop and it is hard to recommend because everybody has different needs
and preferences.

That being said, personally I think that the ThinkPad T520 or W520 are
probably two of the best lapto

 

[John John MVP]

On 27/11/2011 9:36 AM, John John MVP wrote:

Sorry, the send button got hit before I was done..

How much money do you want to spend on this laptop?

Are you going to use this laptop at home only (or most of the time or
will you pack it around a lot? If you pack it around a lot you may find
that a 15 inch is a bit heavy and slightly bulky and you may regret not
getting that tiny looking 14 inch model...

Have you decided on a screen size and resolution? A 17 inch laptop is
not rally a "laptop". Text on a 14" 1920 x 1080 HD panel can be pretty
difficult to read. If you want to connect or use Intel's WIDI to stream
to your large HD plasma/LCD tv 1920 x 1020 is a must.

I find that there are several compromises to be made when purchasing a
laptop and it is hard to recommend because everybody has different needs
and preferences.

That being said, personally I think that the ThinkPad T520 or W520 are
probably two of the best laptops out there. If multimedia is your thing
then the Toshiba Qosmio or HP Envy are excellent choices. If you want
bang for the buck while still having a good powerful machine then the
Dell XPS 15 — L502X is a good choice. I just got one of these to use in
my living room (1920 x 1080), I'm happy with the purchase but I do find
text a bit small on this HD panel. I got mine with the backlit
keyboard, I find this to be a very nice option when using the laptop in
dimly lit areas.

John

 

[John John MVP]

On 27/11/2011 9:48 AM, John John MVP wrote:

Note typo, HD resolution is 1920 x 1080...

 

[Don Phillipson]

Perhaps someone could point me to
a group or forum where I'm likely to get objective advice please?

Replies on line may so far be less useful than printed magazine
reviews and comparisons, probably best about a decade
ago when laptops seemed new. Such reviews suggest a list of
typical features e.g.
display quality
keyboard (touch typing)
battery life
and the user can then add his personal requirements and rerank
these features in the order that suits his needs best. (New laptops
now include features like Wi-Fi that were formerly add-ons: this
means old features like display quality and keyboard feel become
more important to a shopping decision, not less.)

 

[BillW50]

Replies on line may so far be less useful than printed magazine
reviews and comparisons, probably best about a decade
ago when laptops seemed new...

Well... I have a slight problem with that. As printed magazines rarely
ever gives an advertiser a bad review. And my beef with them for decades
are that they have been way too biased for my tastes. Sure they can be
helpful for the reasons that you had stated.

But replies online has no such restrictions. So as model Z has nothing
but problems and has been in and out of the shop for months. And you
find a high percentage of replies saying basically the same thing. Then
it would probably be best to stay away from that one.

Reading magazines for decades, it would be a totally rare find to read a
magazine telling you about such matters. Since doing so would only burn
bridges and would be bad for business. As they generally always make
everything sound too good for one reason or another.

 

[Stefan Patric]

I realise that this is going to boil down largely to personal
preferences, but I'd appreciate suggestions please.

In many years of PC usage I've never owned a laptop. But I'd now like to
treat myself to a reliable, high spec, i7 model. Apart from top end
performance, large RAM and HD, other factors that come immediately to
mind are an impressive screen and that it should be as easy to use as
possible. (For laptops, that last one is probably hard: the main reasons
I've never had one is that I'm useless without my mouse!)

I would have considered a 'netbook', as internet capability and
portability are also important requirements. But I understand that
category wouldn't cover my high performance spec (which I need in
particular for video and DVD authoring.)

If I'm OT for this group, my apologies. Perhaps someone could point me
to a group or forum where I'm likely to get objective advice please?

First, forget any type of netbook. They are not designed for, nor do
they have the specs, to do what you want to do. I would consider
researching notebooks designed for gamers as games overall are the most
demanding of hardware. Do Internet searches for "best" gaming computers,
notebooks, laptops, etc. reviews. Also, see what the computer gaming
magazines have to say. Just be prepared to pay through the nose. That
type of performance doesn't come cheap.

As far as the mouse: a small USB one designed for a notebook works quite
well.

Stef

 

[BillW50]

On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:36:28 +0000, Terry Pinnell wrote:

First, forget any type of netbook. They are not designed for, nor do
they have the specs, to do what you want to do. I would consider
researching notebooks designed for gamers as games overall are the most
demanding of hardware. Do Internet searches for "best" gaming computers,
notebooks, laptops, etc. reviews. Also, see what the computer gaming
magazines have to say. Just be prepared to pay through the nose. That
type of performance doesn't come cheap.

As far as the mouse: a small USB one designed for a notebook works quite
well.

Stef

Are you too in the belief that one all purpose computer which does it
all is the way to go? Maybe it is just me, but that would be so limiting
to me. As I don't want to wait for reboots after an update or anything.
So the more computers the better is my motto.

So what do you single computers users do when the OS becomes corrupt? Or
the motherboard fails? Or the hard drive refuses to spin up? Or the
power supply fails? The monitor stops working? So what do you guys do?

And if that isn't bad enough, I have one laptop running in another room
recording all of the Star Wars episodes right now. It is also converting
in real time storing it in WMV format which hits the CPU pretty hard. No
problem if it isn't doing anything else, but would be if I was also
playing games on it too. Also being in WMV format, I can stream it to
any other computer while it is in the process of recording at the same time.

I also like having at least two of each model. This makes it very easy
to troubleshoot if it is software or hardware. Plus you have spare parts
if it hardware. So you can just swap parts until it is working again and
you don't have to buy part after part until you find the right one.

Like these Gateway M465 models. I actually have six of them. I have
three docking stations for them and popping one in the docking station
is virtually as easy as changing a DVD disc or something. Plus they work
independently if needed too. These things used are dirt cheap on eBay
and way too many to meet the demand since they are flooding the market
for years since they have been coming off of corporate leases. Some of
them look like they were never used too.

Those M465 don't work too well as a gaming machine though. But I have
five Alienware machines for those tasks. Yup dups here too. While they
are good for virtually any task you want to throw at them. I don't use
them for any task. As they are not cheap and generally only have a
finite lifespan. And wasting it on tasks that other computers and even
my netbooks can do too just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I am not sure I would steer Terry to focus on a gaming machine. Sure
gaming machines have tons of power to do virtually anything. Although if
they have a weak spot, as they are generally heavy on the GPU power and
the CPU power is secondary. Although what Terry is doing, needs more CPU
power and the GPU is secondary. Which actually would actually save Terry
a few bucks.

 

[Paul]

I realise that this is going to boil down largely to personal preferences,
but I'd appreciate suggestions please.

In many years of PC usage I've never owned a laptop. But I'd now like to
treat myself to a reliable, high spec, i7 model. Apart from top end
performance, large RAM and HD, other factors that come immediately to mind
are an impressive screen and that it should be as easy to use as possible.
(For laptops, that last one is probably hard: the main reasons I've never
had one is that I'm useless without my mouse!)

I would have considered a 'netbook', as internet capability and
portability are also important requirements. But I understand that
category wouldn't cover my high performance spec (which I need in
particular for video and DVD authoring.)

If I'm OT for this group, my apologies. Perhaps someone could point me to
a group or forum where I'm likely to get objective advice please?

What I'm doubting, is you could ever have enough horsepower in
the laptop, to keep you satisfied.

If I check a "boutique" laptop like this Alienware, the fastest processor is a 55 watt one...
I think the XM means the multiplier is unlocked, for overclocking.
Not something you're likely to want to do, in a laptop, due
to cooling issues.

http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-m18x/pd.aspx

"Intel Core i7 2960XM 2.7GHz (3.7GHz with Turbo Boost, 8MB Cache)"

In a desktop, you could have this 2600K for a lot less money.

Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) LGA1155 95W Quad-Core
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115070

With all cores flat out, they run at the base rate. So the desktop
one would be 3.4/2.7 = 1.26x that laptop. (Turbo is for lighter loads.)

On the "regular" web sites, you could look in the business section,
for a "Mobile Workstation", to get the 2960XM as an option. When
I tried to configure one that way, the price was higher than the Alienware.

You can find other firms, that will customize a laptop in a more
imaginative way. For example, the Eurocom Racer model. That
got the price down to about 2/3 of an HP Mobile Workstation
(because it's not using OpenGL certified graphics for CAD work).
The graphics in the Racer are modular, and use an MXM module.
That's how they can plug in the graphics option, when building
the machine.

http://www.eurocom.com/products/showroom/products_files/desktoprepl/dtop_replace2.cfm

(Picture of an MXM module. Not generally available for sale "on the street".)

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/418x627/2008/06/9600M_GT_MXM_3.0.jpg

Companies like Eurocom, don't make the basic machine. An "ODM"
like Clevo makes the platform (in this case, in a modular
way), and then the OEM Eurocom, builds the final product
by installing what you order. It's like Clevo builds
the "barebones" machine, and Eurocom plug in CPU, RAM, graphics.

The Eurocom one, uses a 180W AC adapter, while the HP Mobile
Workstation I was looking at, had 200W and 230W adapters. Just
to give you some idea, how much hotter these are, than a 65W laptop.
When the graphics on those things, aren't cranking DirectX games
or doing OpenGL certified CAD engineering designs, they draw a lot
less power than their max power rating, so it's not like a 230W
laptop, draws 230W all the time. Probably closer to 50W at idle.
It draws the 230W when you're playing Crysis. Or a lesser number
when editing/rendering video. It really depends on whether any of your
software uses GPGPU computing (stream processors inside GPU), as to
whether a high end graphics solution would really make sense.

*******

In the "it must be a joke" department, there was an April 2011 announcement
of a laptop with dual processors in it (two sockets). But the hardware
configuration is too outlandish to be real. I couldn't find this on
their web site. Price starts at $8000. I bet the keyboard is
too hot to touch.

http://www.techpowerup.com/143390/E...or-Phantom-4.0-Server-on-the-Go-Solution.html

There's enough cooling in this picture, to run that kind of
hardware. But only one hard drive is visible. This is a
Eurocom (Clevo) from 2009. This one weighs 12 pounds.
No mention of battery life. You're likely "tethered" all
the time. The exhaust goes out the back.

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/09-03-05/m188_2.jpg

Maybe that's the trick. If they didn't have a battery,
there'd be more room for other hardware.

Paul

 

[BillW50]

Terry Pinnell wrote:
What I'm doubting, is you could ever have enough horsepower in
the laptop, to keep you satisfied.

Oh no! Really Paul? Back in the 80's and 90's this was very easy to say
as it was absolutely true. Even through the early '00's true too. But
heat pipes really changed all of this a lot. As a well designed heat
pipe can handle all of the heat you want to throw at it.

For example I have five Alienware laptops (Alienware calls them desktop
replacements, ok I get that). As they are basically desktop chipsets
crammed into a laptop case.

And heat? They are amazing! A lot of underpowered laptops can get really
hot. You know the keyboard and everything. And I guess that is okay as
long as the critical parts doesn't get too hot. Most of them never get
close to critical.

But these overpowered laptops (ok desktop replacements) are really cool
to the touch, keyboard, etc. Except were the exhaust is. Which is
generally out of the back end. Here I think you can bake some cookies if
you wanted too. But the rest of the system is extremely cool.

In a desktop, you could have this 2600K for a lot less money.

Well on the lower end, the line between desktop and laptops prices are
so small that it is pretty evenly matched nowadays. Only the upper end
are the laptops vastly more costly.

So what are you getting by paying more for a high powered laptop? I can
think of zillions of reasons. Well maybe more than a few anyway. They
have most of all of the basic things like a screen, keyboard, and
pointing device. But you can use external ones too. They also sport
their own UPS. They are much smaller. They are far more portable. And
when you have as many as I do, stackable. And most desks you can have
more than one laptop running at a time. And I better stop now before I
end up writing a book. ;-)

Are there reasons to buy a desktop instead? Yes, although the reasons
are getting smaller and smaller all of the time.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Are you too in the belief that one all purpose computer which does it
all is the way to go? Maybe it is just me, but that would be so limiting
to me. As I don't want to wait for reboots after an update or anything.
So the more computers the better is my motto.

So what do you single computers users do when the OS becomes corrupt? Or
the motherboard fails? Or the hard drive refuses to spin up? Or the
power supply fails? The monitor stops working? So what do you guys do?

And if that isn't bad enough, I have one laptop running in another room
recording all of the Star Wars episodes right now. It is also converting
in real time storing it in WMV format which hits the CPU pretty hard. No
problem if it isn't doing anything else, but would be if I was also
playing games on it too. Also being in WMV format, I can stream it to
any other computer while it is in the process of recording at the same time.

I also like having at least two of each model. This makes it very easy
to troubleshoot if it is software or hardware. Plus you have spare parts
if it hardware. So you can just swap parts until it is working again and
you don't have to buy part after part until you find the right one.

Like these Gateway M465 models. I actually have six of them. I have
three docking stations for them and popping one in the docking station
is virtually as easy as changing a DVD disc or something. Plus they work
independently if needed too. These things used are dirt cheap on eBay
and way too many to meet the demand since they are flooding the market
for years since they have been coming off of corporate leases. Some of
them look like they were never used too.

Those M465 don't work too well as a gaming machine though. But I have
five Alienware machines for those tasks. Yup dups here too. While they
are good for virtually any task you want to throw at them. I don't use
them for any task. As they are not cheap and generally only have a
finite lifespan. And wasting it on tasks that other computers and even
my netbooks can do too just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I am not sure I would steer Terry to focus on a gaming machine. Sure
gaming machines have tons of power to do virtually anything. Although if
they have a weak spot, as they are generally heavy on the GPU power and
the CPU power is secondary. Although what Terry is doing, needs more CPU
power and the GPU is secondary. Which actually would actually save Terry
a few bucks.

Excellent feedback, thanks all. Much to study, but reckon I'll enjoy it!

 

[Paul]

Are you too in the belief that one all purpose computer which does it
all is the way to go? Maybe it is just me, but that would be so limiting
to me. As I don't want to wait for reboots after an update or anything.
So the more computers the better is my motto.

So what do you single computers users do when the OS becomes corrupt? Or
the motherboard fails? Or the hard drive refuses to spin up? Or the
power supply fails? The monitor stops working? So what do you guys do?

And if that isn't bad enough, I have one laptop running in another room
recording all of the Star Wars episodes right now. It is also converting
in real time storing it in WMV format which hits the CPU pretty hard. No
problem if it isn't doing anything else, but would be if I was also
playing games on it too. Also being in WMV format, I can stream it to
any other computer while it is in the process of recording at the same
time.

I also like having at least two of each model. This makes it very easy
to troubleshoot if it is software or hardware. Plus you have spare parts
if it hardware. So you can just swap parts until it is working again and
you don't have to buy part after part until you find the right one.

Like these Gateway M465 models. I actually have six of them. I have
three docking stations for them and popping one in the docking station
is virtually as easy as changing a DVD disc or something. Plus they work
independently if needed too. These things used are dirt cheap on eBay
and way too many to meet the demand since they are flooding the market
for years since they have been coming off of corporate leases. Some of
them look like they were never used too.

Those M465 don't work too well as a gaming machine though. But I have
five Alienware machines for those tasks. Yup dups here too. While they
are good for virtually any task you want to throw at them. I don't use
them for any task. As they are not cheap and generally only have a
finite lifespan. And wasting it on tasks that other computers and even
my netbooks can do too just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I am not sure I would steer Terry to focus on a gaming machine. Sure
gaming machines have tons of power to do virtually anything. Although if
they have a weak spot, as they are generally heavy on the GPU power and
the CPU power is secondary. Although what Terry is doing, needs more CPU
power and the GPU is secondary. Which actually would actually save Terry
a few bucks.

I'm trying to find ways, to get a high end processor, without
high end graphics, so most of the capabilities go into computing.
The Mobile Workstation was one way. The Alienware (boutique) laptop
or Eurocom (customizable) were other ways. But I haven't been
able to find one with a weak GPU to save power (or perhaps,
leave room for a battery).

The Mobile Workstation ones, have a build option to replace the
DVD drive, with a second hard drive. And then, an SSD could be
used for the primary drive, while a larger regular laptop hard
drive is used for the video files.

*******

Another way to do it, would be to strap a Z68 based mini-itx, to
the back of a big LCD monitor. It's not a laptop, and it still needs
a separate keyboard and mouse. All such a scheme would save, is
on having a tower. (I saw such a concept at the service desk at
my local hardware store the other day. Only the processor in that
one, had horrible performance.)

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2011/06/16/zotac-mini-itx-z68-motherboards-to-ship-in/1

Example of a mini-itx in a box, strapped to the back of a monitor
using VESA holes.

http://resources.mini-box.com/online/ENC-M350/moreimages/M350-Universal-Mini-ITX-enclosure-b6.jpg

It's a bit silly, and a laptop is a much better option. But it's
another way to put a 2600K in a relatively small footprint. To
be that small, storage would probably be in a laptop drive form
factor.

Word of warning - home building tiny systems will try your
patience. You can waste a good deal of money, returning stuff
because it won't fit.

Paul

 

[Stefan Patric]

Are you too in the belief that one all purpose computer which does it
all is the way to go? Maybe it is just me, but that would be so limiting
to me. As I don't want to wait for reboots after an update or anything.
So the more computers the better is my motto.

Not me. I'm a great believer in redundancy.

[big snip]

I am not sure I would steer Terry to focus on a gaming machine. Sure
gaming machines have tons of power to do virtually anything. Although if
they have a weak spot, as they are generally heavy on the GPU power and
the CPU power is secondary. Although what Terry is doing, needs more CPU
power and the GPU is secondary. Which actually would actually save Terry
a few bucks.

It's a good place to start.

Stef