R
Richard E Sgrignoli
The following is being disseminated to a variety of media across the
country for potential investigation by "consumer alert" reporters.
Consideration is also given to possibly disseminating to attorneys.
Although the problem seems to originate with Hewlett-Packard, it culminates
with an even greater questionable behavior by Circuit City. Read on.....
=====
I have a consumer-related situation you may be interested in, especially
with computers becoming a necessity in every household. It deals with
whether stores/chains are providing expected services under their Extended
Service (Warranty) Plans, or, in this case, a Computer Support Plus (CSP)
Plan, and potential undisclosed "read the fine print" and misleading
representations.
In April 2000, our family had purchased a Hewlett-Packard Pavilion 8655C
desktop computer at Circuit City, located on the Carlisle Pile in
Mechanicsburg, PA. At that time, we also purchased a 3-year extended
service/warranty plan called "Computer Support Plus (CSP)" for $269.99.
This purchase of the CSP is documented on the same receipt reflecting the
computer purchase. It was understood that the computer would fall under
the Hewlett-Packard manufacturer warranty for the first 12 months, then
would fall under Circuit City's CSP for an additional 36 months.
From Day 1 when we purchased the computer, we have had problems with the
computer freezing unexpectedly. This would occur whether we were on the
Internet, using a browser, typing a document, printing a document, the
children chatting with friends on Instant Messenger, and so forth. At the
time, I had no idea what may have been causing the arbitrary freeze-ups. I
initially thought it was memory, so I bought more. I then thought it may
be a problem with Windows, so I upgraded to Windows Me (and subsequently to
Windows XP). I had removed personal software (purchased separately which
was not part of the initial disks provided with the system). That did not
help. I had downloaded the latest recommended drivers. No change.
Hewlett-Packard suggested I turn off certain services and automatic startup
of software. Again, nothing seemed to fix the problem. I had taken down
the system and restored only the "out-of-the-box" software which came with
the Pavilion 8655C with absolutely no additional configurations or
software, yet the system still froze randomly. The freezes would occur at
any time, but it averaged after about only 30-60 minutes of use prior to
freezing. Our inability to create/print documents, especially for school
work or personal business, was driving us away from using our home computer
but, instead, relying on my company laptop.
Each time I would call Hewlett-Packard, I would speak with a different
technician, and he/she would ask that I go through the same troubleshooting
steps, although I explained time after time that "we had already checked
that." The calls to Hewlett-Packard became an exercise in futility. I
became quite dissatisfied with the lack of resolve by Hewlett-Packard, but
we also have become quite dependent on a computer...ANY computer...and had
no choice but to tolerate it.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=8655C+freeze&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d
From time to time over the past several years, I continued to investigate
the possible causes and resolutions by searching the Internet (Google)
(http://www.google.com), using keywords such as "8655C freeze". This was
done on both the "Web" and "Group" search tabs. It was interesting to see
the number of postings in the newsgroups by individuals who had the exact
same issue with this particular model number. These postings also cited
Hewlett-Packard's lack of resolve comparable to what I had experienced.
Some individuals gave suggestions on how to fix the problem (i.e., change
the screen resolution to a much lower setting); however, although this
seemed to help to some degree, it did not stop the system from freezing
totally, and I felt that this was still an unreasonable fix considering we
paid for a high quality monitor. The most recent postings seem to suggest
an issue with the video card being defective.
Years had passed, our patience wore thin, and we finally used a portion of
our income tax return to purchase a new computer. There is no way we would
ever consider Hewlett-Packard, not even for peripherals, following their
lack of service. Our choices were Dell or Gateway due to past experience
with those two brands and in doing research on reliability and service. We
finally decided on Gateway.
The Hewlett-Packard warranty had since expired (April 2001), and the
Circuit City CSP is set to expire on 29 April 2004. Now that we will have
a new computer, our dependency on the Hewlett-Packard is no longer
critical, and we are able to pursue its repair for the random freezing on a
full-time basis, especially in light of the CSP expiring in less than two
months.
Now for the kicker.....
I called Circuit City on 14 March 2004 at 1-800-555-4615 to inquire about
shipping the computer for repair for this ongoing problem.
I spoke with a "John" (Technician Nr 4610) and explained the ongoing
problem. I stated that we had an issue with this computer "from Day 1" and
that I had received no resolve from Hewlett-Packard in my earlier attempts.
This immediately caught John's attention that the problem "started while
Hewlett-Packard's warranty was in force"; therefore, per John, it is a
"pre-existing condition" and not coverable by Circuit City.
I explained to John that Hewlett-Packard was consulted on this problem from
the beginning, but they were unable to resolve it. The Hewlett-Packard
warranty had expired, and Hewlett-Packard will obviously not longer cover
such repairs for their defective computer. It now falls under Circuit
City. I paid $269.99 for the extended warranty; I intend to use it.
I then asked John, "So what you re telling me is that I cannot get this
computer fixed either by Hewlett-Packard or by Circuit City even though the
extended warranty is still in effect?" His response was that the problem
was "pre-existing" by virtue that it started while Hewlett-Packard's
warranty was in force; therefore, it was an uncovered defect under the
Circuit City CSP.
I find this to be completely unreasonable and very misleading in their
sales pitch of the extended warranty plan.
So, basically, even though I paid $269.99 for an extended warranty plan, I
am without any coverage simply because I had this problem "from Day 1".
I have since reviewed Circuit City's Terms and Conditions for their
extended warranties and find the following items very interesting.....
7. Exclusions from Service. Your Plan does not cover the following:
E. ANY AND ALL PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS THAT OCCUR PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE
DATE OF THE CONTRACT.
I can certainly understand Circuit City's position IF the computer were
purchased without an extended warranty and then ONLY deciding to purchase
such extended warranty AFTER a problem is detected. But, as I stated
above, I purchased the extended warranty simultaneously with purchasing the
computer. It is on the same receipt.
However.....I then note the following definition of "Contract" on the same
Circuit City webpage:
2. Contract. These Terms and Conditions, together with the sales receipt or
other evidence of Your purchase of the Plan ("Sales Receipt") shall
collectively constitute the entire contract relating to Your coverage
("Contract"). The Sales Receipt describes the covered Product, the
commencement date of the Plan (which is Your purchase date), the duration
of the Plan, and whether in-home service is applicable for Your Product.
Although We retain a record of Your Plan and Product purchase, You are
encouraged to retain Your Contract as proof of ownership. In the event Your
Product is being serviced under this Plan when the Contract expires, the
term of the Contract will be extended until the covered repair has been
completed.
Therefore, the above wording clearly indicates that the problems I had
experienced with the Pavilion 8655C did not occur "prior to the effective
date of the contract" since, in the last paragraph above, using Cicuit
City's own wording, the "commencement date" equates to the "purchase date"
of the Plan. Therefore, this being stated, the problems with the Pavilion
8655C freeze-ups should still be covered under Circuit City's CSP,
regardless of what "John (Nr 4610)" says.
You can review the actual Terms and Conditions by going to
http://www.circuitcity.com/ and clicking on:
Service (lower left column)
Help & Service
then
Policies and Guidelines (right column)
CityAdvantage Protection Plans
then
Computer Products (orange area)
Terms and Conditions (lower right corner in orange area)
I will continue to pursue.....however, request any investigation/assistance
you may be able to provide in this matter. If Circuit City is unwilling to
budge on this matter, I think it will be an excellent example of what to
disseminate to consumers across America of what to look out for when
purchasing extended warranties, and I will never step foot in a Circuit
City store again and ensure that others hear of this experience.
I will be more than happy to answer any additional questions you may have.
I am providing specifics of the computer and purchase below for ease in
your investigation.
Name: Richard E Sgrignoli
Address: [removed]
Item: Hewlett-Packard Pavilion 8655C Desktop
Computer Model: Pavilion 8655C
Computer Serial: [removed]
Circuit City Case ID: [removed]
Thank you.
Richard E Sgrignoli
(e-mail address removed)
(H) xxx-xxx-xxxx
(O) xxx-xxx-xxxx
(C) xxx-xxx-xxxx
country for potential investigation by "consumer alert" reporters.
Consideration is also given to possibly disseminating to attorneys.
Although the problem seems to originate with Hewlett-Packard, it culminates
with an even greater questionable behavior by Circuit City. Read on.....
=====
I have a consumer-related situation you may be interested in, especially
with computers becoming a necessity in every household. It deals with
whether stores/chains are providing expected services under their Extended
Service (Warranty) Plans, or, in this case, a Computer Support Plus (CSP)
Plan, and potential undisclosed "read the fine print" and misleading
representations.
In April 2000, our family had purchased a Hewlett-Packard Pavilion 8655C
desktop computer at Circuit City, located on the Carlisle Pile in
Mechanicsburg, PA. At that time, we also purchased a 3-year extended
service/warranty plan called "Computer Support Plus (CSP)" for $269.99.
This purchase of the CSP is documented on the same receipt reflecting the
computer purchase. It was understood that the computer would fall under
the Hewlett-Packard manufacturer warranty for the first 12 months, then
would fall under Circuit City's CSP for an additional 36 months.
From Day 1 when we purchased the computer, we have had problems with the
computer freezing unexpectedly. This would occur whether we were on the
Internet, using a browser, typing a document, printing a document, the
children chatting with friends on Instant Messenger, and so forth. At the
time, I had no idea what may have been causing the arbitrary freeze-ups. I
initially thought it was memory, so I bought more. I then thought it may
be a problem with Windows, so I upgraded to Windows Me (and subsequently to
Windows XP). I had removed personal software (purchased separately which
was not part of the initial disks provided with the system). That did not
help. I had downloaded the latest recommended drivers. No change.
Hewlett-Packard suggested I turn off certain services and automatic startup
of software. Again, nothing seemed to fix the problem. I had taken down
the system and restored only the "out-of-the-box" software which came with
the Pavilion 8655C with absolutely no additional configurations or
software, yet the system still froze randomly. The freezes would occur at
any time, but it averaged after about only 30-60 minutes of use prior to
freezing. Our inability to create/print documents, especially for school
work or personal business, was driving us away from using our home computer
but, instead, relying on my company laptop.
Each time I would call Hewlett-Packard, I would speak with a different
technician, and he/she would ask that I go through the same troubleshooting
steps, although I explained time after time that "we had already checked
that." The calls to Hewlett-Packard became an exercise in futility. I
became quite dissatisfied with the lack of resolve by Hewlett-Packard, but
we also have become quite dependent on a computer...ANY computer...and had
no choice but to tolerate it.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=8655C+freeze&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d
From time to time over the past several years, I continued to investigate
the possible causes and resolutions by searching the Internet (Google)
(http://www.google.com), using keywords such as "8655C freeze". This was
done on both the "Web" and "Group" search tabs. It was interesting to see
the number of postings in the newsgroups by individuals who had the exact
same issue with this particular model number. These postings also cited
Hewlett-Packard's lack of resolve comparable to what I had experienced.
Some individuals gave suggestions on how to fix the problem (i.e., change
the screen resolution to a much lower setting); however, although this
seemed to help to some degree, it did not stop the system from freezing
totally, and I felt that this was still an unreasonable fix considering we
paid for a high quality monitor. The most recent postings seem to suggest
an issue with the video card being defective.
Years had passed, our patience wore thin, and we finally used a portion of
our income tax return to purchase a new computer. There is no way we would
ever consider Hewlett-Packard, not even for peripherals, following their
lack of service. Our choices were Dell or Gateway due to past experience
with those two brands and in doing research on reliability and service. We
finally decided on Gateway.
The Hewlett-Packard warranty had since expired (April 2001), and the
Circuit City CSP is set to expire on 29 April 2004. Now that we will have
a new computer, our dependency on the Hewlett-Packard is no longer
critical, and we are able to pursue its repair for the random freezing on a
full-time basis, especially in light of the CSP expiring in less than two
months.
Now for the kicker.....
I called Circuit City on 14 March 2004 at 1-800-555-4615 to inquire about
shipping the computer for repair for this ongoing problem.
I spoke with a "John" (Technician Nr 4610) and explained the ongoing
problem. I stated that we had an issue with this computer "from Day 1" and
that I had received no resolve from Hewlett-Packard in my earlier attempts.
This immediately caught John's attention that the problem "started while
Hewlett-Packard's warranty was in force"; therefore, per John, it is a
"pre-existing condition" and not coverable by Circuit City.
I explained to John that Hewlett-Packard was consulted on this problem from
the beginning, but they were unable to resolve it. The Hewlett-Packard
warranty had expired, and Hewlett-Packard will obviously not longer cover
such repairs for their defective computer. It now falls under Circuit
City. I paid $269.99 for the extended warranty; I intend to use it.
I then asked John, "So what you re telling me is that I cannot get this
computer fixed either by Hewlett-Packard or by Circuit City even though the
extended warranty is still in effect?" His response was that the problem
was "pre-existing" by virtue that it started while Hewlett-Packard's
warranty was in force; therefore, it was an uncovered defect under the
Circuit City CSP.
I find this to be completely unreasonable and very misleading in their
sales pitch of the extended warranty plan.
So, basically, even though I paid $269.99 for an extended warranty plan, I
am without any coverage simply because I had this problem "from Day 1".
I have since reviewed Circuit City's Terms and Conditions for their
extended warranties and find the following items very interesting.....
7. Exclusions from Service. Your Plan does not cover the following:
E. ANY AND ALL PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS THAT OCCUR PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE
DATE OF THE CONTRACT.
I can certainly understand Circuit City's position IF the computer were
purchased without an extended warranty and then ONLY deciding to purchase
such extended warranty AFTER a problem is detected. But, as I stated
above, I purchased the extended warranty simultaneously with purchasing the
computer. It is on the same receipt.
However.....I then note the following definition of "Contract" on the same
Circuit City webpage:
2. Contract. These Terms and Conditions, together with the sales receipt or
other evidence of Your purchase of the Plan ("Sales Receipt") shall
collectively constitute the entire contract relating to Your coverage
("Contract"). The Sales Receipt describes the covered Product, the
commencement date of the Plan (which is Your purchase date), the duration
of the Plan, and whether in-home service is applicable for Your Product.
Although We retain a record of Your Plan and Product purchase, You are
encouraged to retain Your Contract as proof of ownership. In the event Your
Product is being serviced under this Plan when the Contract expires, the
term of the Contract will be extended until the covered repair has been
completed.
Therefore, the above wording clearly indicates that the problems I had
experienced with the Pavilion 8655C did not occur "prior to the effective
date of the contract" since, in the last paragraph above, using Cicuit
City's own wording, the "commencement date" equates to the "purchase date"
of the Plan. Therefore, this being stated, the problems with the Pavilion
8655C freeze-ups should still be covered under Circuit City's CSP,
regardless of what "John (Nr 4610)" says.
You can review the actual Terms and Conditions by going to
http://www.circuitcity.com/ and clicking on:
Service (lower left column)
Help & Service
then
Policies and Guidelines (right column)
CityAdvantage Protection Plans
then
Computer Products (orange area)
Terms and Conditions (lower right corner in orange area)
I will continue to pursue.....however, request any investigation/assistance
you may be able to provide in this matter. If Circuit City is unwilling to
budge on this matter, I think it will be an excellent example of what to
disseminate to consumers across America of what to look out for when
purchasing extended warranties, and I will never step foot in a Circuit
City store again and ensure that others hear of this experience.
I will be more than happy to answer any additional questions you may have.
I am providing specifics of the computer and purchase below for ease in
your investigation.
Name: Richard E Sgrignoli
Address: [removed]
Item: Hewlett-Packard Pavilion 8655C Desktop
Computer Model: Pavilion 8655C
Computer Serial: [removed]
Circuit City Case ID: [removed]
Thank you.
Richard E Sgrignoli
(e-mail address removed)
(H) xxx-xxx-xxxx
(O) xxx-xxx-xxxx
(C) xxx-xxx-xxxx