Help with new power supply pls

  • Thread starter Thread starter Qmarker
  • Start date Start date
Q

Qmarker

I am pretty sure my power supply is failing me. Booting a cold PC
shuts off frequently prior to POST completing. Sometimes I have to hit
the "on" button multiple times. I have very frequent power outages
due to roadwork and the city redoing things.

I sure could use some good advice on my purchase and install.

I've installed RAM, and I've installed hard drives. Is this something
that will make sense to me to do it myself?

I am thinking to get an Antec 430 or a 400.

Do I want an SL model or a True model?

Here is what I am running. The system is just one year old.

Asus P4B533 2.6 1gig RAM (generic 300w power supply)
2 large IDE hard drives
Nvidia TI4200 128mg
DVD
CDR/W
DSL modem

I am about to install a D-Link router and network to my son's PC
(wireless)

Thank you for any help and advice on a new power supply.
Donna
 
Qmarker said:
I am pretty sure my power supply is failing me. Booting a cold PC
shuts off frequently prior to POST completing. Sometimes I have to hit
the "on" button multiple times. I have very frequent power outages
due to roadwork and the city redoing things.

I sure could use some good advice on my purchase and install.

I've installed RAM, and I've installed hard drives. Is this something
that will make sense to me to do it myself?

I am thinking to get an Antec 430 or a 400.

Do I want an SL model or a True model?

Here is what I am running. The system is just one year old.

Asus P4B533 2.6 1gig RAM (generic 300w power supply)
2 large IDE hard drives
Nvidia TI4200 128mg
DVD
CDR/W
DSL modem

I am about to install a D-Link router and network to my son's PC
(wireless)

Thank you for any help and advice on a new power supply.
Donna

Generic power supplies can get ugly... I am using the Antec models that came
in my Antec cases, and I've never had problems. I do not know whether they
are the SL or true models, sorry. They just work!

One other tip, and I'm sure you're already using them, but I always use a
UPS (with good brownout, overvoltage, transient, etc. protection). The ones
I'm currently using the most are these Belkin 800VA units I got at Office
Depot, I also have some APC units. I always use them on the more expensive
systems we have. Don't know the exact model number, but can look it up if
you would like, given some time.

Good luck! Your mileage may vary.

;-)
 
I am pretty sure my power supply is failing me. Booting a cold PC
shuts off frequently prior to POST completing. Sometimes I have to hit
the "on" button multiple times. I have very frequent power outages
due to roadwork and the city redoing things.

I sure could use some good advice on my purchase and install.

I've installed RAM, and I've installed hard drives. Is this something
that will make sense to me to do it myself?

I am thinking to get an Antec 430 or a 400.

Do I want an SL model or a True model?

Here is what I am running. The system is just one year old.

Asus P4B533 2.6 1gig RAM (generic 300w power supply)
2 large IDE hard drives
Nvidia TI4200 128mg
DVD
CDR/W
DSL modem

I am about to install a D-Link router and network to my son's PC
(wireless)

Thank you for any help and advice on a new power supply.
Donna

I have a Truepower and haven't had any trouble with it. The Antec
Truepower is made by ChannelWell Technologies (CWT), while some other
Antec supplies are made by HEC. Both seem to be OK. The Truepower
is supposed to have separate regulation for each output, and this
enables the supply to be used with older motherboards that use a
lot of 3.3/5.0 or a newer motherboard that uses more 12V.

As far as UPS go, there are a couple of kinds. The cheap ones you
find in a computer store (I have one) are actually SPS or standby
power supplies. When the power is "normal", they simply connect
the line to the load directly. This means that any transients or
noise on the source side, will be seen by the load. If there is
a brownout or an outage, after some number of milliseconds, the
SPS will start supplying its own AC. (You can tell you have an
SPS because it doesn't get warm under normal operation.)

A true UPS does AC-DC-AC conversion. (The DC being for the battery.)
This isolates the line from the load at all times. The line side
could have all sorts of garbage on it and the load side will never
know it. A true UPS will be warm at all times, as it does power
conversion all the time.

If you buy a SPS, you may still want some kind of surge protection,
unless the unit claims it has some kind of surge suppression. Or
at least be aware that you are still exposed to transients or surges.

Finally, the truly cheap SPS (<$100 typically) sometimes have trouble
telling the AC has been restored. They'll run off the battery until it
is flat. I don't recommend buying the cheapest one you can find :-)

HTH,
Paul
 
I have a Truepower and haven't had any trouble with it. The Antec
Truepower is made by ChannelWell Technologies (CWT), while some other
Antec supplies are made by HEC. Both seem to be OK. The Truepower
is supposed to have separate regulation for each output, and this
enables the supply to be used with older motherboards that use a
lot of 3.3/5.0 or a newer motherboard that uses more 12V.

As far as UPS go, there are a couple of kinds. The cheap ones you
find in a computer store (I have one) are actually SPS or standby
power supplies. When the power is "normal", they simply connect
the line to the load directly. This means that any transients or
noise on the source side, will be seen by the load. If there is
a brownout or an outage, after some number of milliseconds, the
SPS will start supplying its own AC. (You can tell you have an
SPS because it doesn't get warm under normal operation.)

A true UPS does AC-DC-AC conversion. (The DC being for the battery.)
This isolates the line from the load at all times. The line side
could have all sorts of garbage on it and the load side will never
know it. A true UPS will be warm at all times, as it does power
conversion all the time.

If you buy a SPS, you may still want some kind of surge protection,
unless the unit claims it has some kind of surge suppression. Or
at least be aware that you are still exposed to transients or surges.

Finally, the truly cheap SPS (<$100 typically) sometimes have trouble
telling the AC has been restored. They'll run off the battery until it
is flat. I don't recommend buying the cheapest one you can find :-)

HTH,
Paul

I got an APC UPS 1000, and that thing will run 4 PC's, a router, a hub
and a cable modem with room to spare without overloading the unit.
Probably about 5 minutes of battery time if the power goes out though:)
I got it for free because the batteries were dead. I just shelled out
$75 for new batteries, and I got myself a really cheap, really good UPS.
These things are HEAVY though, but definitely worth it if you can find
it. THey also sell cheaper models as well. APC is the brand you want.


Dan
 
What controls the power supply? The motherboard. If power
supply is turning off, then good reason to also suspect
motherboard or front panel power switch. IOW you don't know
why your problem exists until problem is actually observed. A
simple, essential tool required for computer repair. How to
use it and what you must do was already posted in the
newsgroup microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware entitled
"Power Up Problem" posted on 9 Dec 2003. You will be looking
at what power supply provides to motherboard controller and
what motherboard controller orders power supply to do. Simply
handshaking observed in minutes can say which is failing - and
often why.
 
| In article <[email protected]>,
(e-mail address removed)
| says...
| > In article <[email protected]>,
| > (e-mail address removed) (Qmarker) wrote:
| >
| > > I am pretty sure my power supply is failing me. Booting a cold
PC
| > > shuts off frequently prior to POST completing. Sometimes I have
to hit
| > > the "on" button multiple times. I have very frequent power
outages
| > > due to roadwork and the city redoing things.
| > >
| > > I sure could use some good advice on my purchase and install.
| > >
| > > I've installed RAM, and I've installed hard drives. Is this
something
| > > that will make sense to me to do it myself?
| > >
| > > I am thinking to get an Antec 430 or a 400.
| > >
| > > Do I want an SL model or a True model?
| > >
| > > Here is what I am running. The system is just one year old.
| > >
| > > Asus P4B533 2.6 1gig RAM (generic 300w power supply)
| > > 2 large IDE hard drives
| > > Nvidia TI4200 128mg
| > > DVD
| > > CDR/W
| > > DSL modem
| > >
| > > I am about to install a D-Link router and network to my son's PC
| > > (wireless)
| > >
| > > Thank you for any help and advice on a new power supply.
| > > Donna
| >
| > I have a Truepower and haven't had any trouble with it. The Antec
| > Truepower is made by ChannelWell Technologies (CWT), while some
other
| > Antec supplies are made by HEC. Both seem to be OK. The Truepower
| > is supposed to have separate regulation for each output, and this
| > enables the supply to be used with older motherboards that use a
| > lot of 3.3/5.0 or a newer motherboard that uses more 12V.
| >
| > As far as UPS go, there are a couple of kinds. The cheap ones you
| > find in a computer store (I have one) are actually SPS or standby
| > power supplies. When the power is "normal", they simply connect
| > the line to the load directly. This means that any transients or
| > noise on the source side, will be seen by the load. If there is
| > a brownout or an outage, after some number of milliseconds, the
| > SPS will start supplying its own AC. (You can tell you have an
| > SPS because it doesn't get warm under normal operation.)
| >
| > A true UPS does AC-DC-AC conversion. (The DC being for the
battery.)
| > This isolates the line from the load at all times. The line side
| > could have all sorts of garbage on it and the load side will never
| > know it. A true UPS will be warm at all times, as it does power
| > conversion all the time.
| >
| > If you buy a SPS, you may still want some kind of surge
protection,
| > unless the unit claims it has some kind of surge suppression. Or
| > at least be aware that you are still exposed to transients or
surges.
| >
| > Finally, the truly cheap SPS (<$100 typically) sometimes have
trouble
| > telling the AC has been restored. They'll run off the battery
until it
| > is flat. I don't recommend buying the cheapest one you can find
:-)
| >
| > HTH,
| > Paul
| >
|
| I got an APC UPS 1000, and that thing will run 4 PC's, a router, a
hub
| and a cable modem with room to spare without overloading the unit.
| Probably about 5 minutes of battery time if the power goes out
though:)
| I got it for free because the batteries were dead. I just shelled
out
| $75 for new batteries, and I got myself a really cheap, really good
UPS.
| These things are HEAVY though, but definitely worth it if you can
find
| it. THey also sell cheaper models as well. APC is the brand you
want.
|
|
| Dan

I took the same route as Dan, sortof (didn't get mine for free), got
my APC1000 unit for $25 on Ebay, and then bought my $75 worth of new
batteries and was up and running. I have 2 PC's connected to it, as
well as cablemodem and dsl modem and 1 monitor. My experience is
this: a cheap UPS may not properly detect the brownouts or blackouts
fast enough, but a good one (and I recommend APC) never fails in this
area of performance. I purchased a cheapo Powmax 500 or 600 VA unit
that fails to "switch over" under some power failure conditions.
Also, the newer UPS units that use a single sealed lead-acid battery
(typically 12v battery) do not provide much more than a few minutes of
uptime, even when rated at 500-800 VA capability. Finally, it appears
there is a LARGE variance in the lifetime expectancy of the batteries,
and some brands are rather poor in this category. Next time, I'm
gonna find some Yuasa batteries, imho, one of the best brands.

What I need to do is open up my 10 year old APC-600 unit and check the
brand of the battery therein, b/c it has never failed (and yes, I
know, I should replace the battery now, but the computer system
running from it is not a critical system).
 
Even cheapo UPSes can respond fast enough. However, too
many computers (especially clones built by mom and pop shops)
don't have power supplies that meet essential specs that were
defacto standard even 30 years ago and are required by Intel
specs. Did that power supply come with a long list of
detailed, numerical specs? If not, then it is probably one of
those defective supplies sold only on one spec - price.

Maybe less than 1% of all computer assemblers have any idea
what those specs mean. But those less than 1% are why the
power supply must meet those specs. So, instead, inferior and
unacceptable supplies don't provide specs - so that the naive
will 'feel' they got a good deal.

Why does that power supply make a UPS look bad? Because all
acceptable power supplies must output constant and
uninterrupted power for more than 15 milliseconds after power
is lost. And all acceptable power supplies work just fine
even when AC mains voltage drops so low that incandescent
lamps are less than 40% intensity. If power supply meets both
parameters, then most every UPS works just fine. But if a
computer assembler buys defective supplies, then some UPSes
may not work. Defect is the power supply; not UPS.

Problems are too often found in supplies selling for less
than $50. How do they sell it that cheap? They simply forget
to include those above and other essential functions that an
acceptable supply meets. Defective power supplies can even
damage other computer components. Anyone familiar with those
Intel, et al requirements knows that a properly designed power
supply cannot damage other computer components AND should work
just fine with a cheapo, plug-in UPS.

Experience without first learning the underlying theory does
not teach anything useful. Just because some power supply /
UPS combinations did not work does not mean the UPS is
defective. One must first learn the theory - what a power
supply must do - as it did 30 years ago. Too often, many
computer failures are directly traceable to that power supply
provided by a bean counter mentality who assembles (does not
build) computers.
 
To get back on topic, the Antec's have a good reputation. My
experience with them has been with the TruePower model and it has been
good.

I have used a lot of others, mostly no-names, with varying
success/failure rates. I think I will stay with Antec for the
foreseeable future.

Just my experience, your mileage may vary.
 
w_tom said:
Too often, many
computer failures are directly traceable to that power supply
provided by a bean counter mentality who assembles (does not
build) computers.

Amen, reverend! (Preaching to the choir)

I would also like to add that said despicable bean counter is NOT
responsible for supporting end users supplied with said crapola units, nor
is he required to defuse angry managers who say they spent all this money on
new computers, why don't they work better!?

LOL, The song remains the same. Things truly have not changed much.
 
Reputation from recommendation alone tells us little.
Benchmark for a good supply was defined in the previous post:
Did that power supply come with a long list of detailed,
numerical specs? If not, then it is probably one of those
defective supplies sold only on one spec - price.

Bean counters typically do not install Antecs. First,
Antecs do provide specs (although not as many as they
should). Second, Antecs do not sell for less than $50 -
meaning it 'may' contain essential functions and meaning it is
too expensive for those bean counter mentalities.

Those bean counters also recommend other supplies saying,
"My experience with them has been good." Only solid
engineering facts define a supply as acceptable. Start by
demanding specs. For example, here is an abbreviated list of
specs from another, acceptable supply that also cannot be sold
for less than $50 retail:
Specification compliance: ATX 2.03 & ATX12V v1.1
Acoustics noise 25.8dBA typical at 70w, 30cm
Short circuit protection on all outputs
Over voltage protection
Over power protection
100% hi-pot test
100% burn in, high temperature cycled on/off
PFC harmonics compliance: EN61000-3-2 + A1 + A2
EMI/RFI compliance: CE, CISPR22 & FCC part 15 class B
Safety compliance: VDE, TUV, D, N, S, Fi, UL, C-UL & CB
Hold up time, full load: 16ms. typical
Efficiency; 100-120VAC and full range: >65%
Dielectric withstand, input to frame/ground: 1800VAC, 1sec.
Dielectric withstand, input to output: 1800VAC, 1sec.
Ripple/noise: 1%
MTBF, full load @ 25°C amb.: >100k hrs

Selected were many specs that 'bean counter' power supplies
often forget to provide which is why so many users suffer
computer failures. Experience alone is not sufficient. We
learned in high school science that to know something, one
must have both experience (experiment) and theoretical
knowledge (know how and why something works so we know what it
was suppose to do). Those two criteria apply to power supply
selection. Provided are fundamental facts so that a power
supply customer does not become a bean counter. BTW, even
CompUSA sells power supplies that don't claim some of those
above requirements. And yet even that CompUSA power supply
has been recommended by others.

Recommendation is only enough to say, "Look at this one".
Recommendation, without specific technical facts, is not
sufficient to buy computer parts.
 
Thank you ever so much for the treatise on "beancounters", as well as
sharing your obviously voluminous technical expertise. But since you
insisted on hijacking the OP's thread I simply asked that it get back
a little closer to the original track. Donna asked specifically about
Antec. I replied that I had used them, as well as others, and was
satisfied with the Antec. Beyond that I made no "recommendation", as
you put it. So, if that sort of thing is not what Donna wanted to
hear, sorry. I will leave it up to Donna to decide what value to place
on what I said.
 
Ron said:
Thank you ever so much for the treatise on "beancounters", as well as
sharing your obviously voluminous technical expertise. But since you
insisted on hijacking the OP's thread I simply asked that it get back
a little closer to the original track. Donna asked specifically about
Antec. I replied that I had used them, as well as others, and was
satisfied with the Antec. Beyond that I made no "recommendation", as
you put it. So, if that sort of thing is not what Donna wanted to
hear, sorry. I will leave it up to Donna to decide what value to place
on what I said.


Well, I've recently bought 3 Antecs (of varying power levels) and am happy
with all of them. I intend replacing my remaining standard power supplies
with them as well.

JB
 
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