Help porting bootable disk drive

[418928]

Hi everybody,

I had the luck of receiving a new computer with a better CPU and I'm
trying to install my current disk drive on it. I would like to keep all
my data in that drive and, if possible, be able to boot with the OS
installed there. I hope you can help me because I had no luck so far.
This is what I get:

-Apart from the hard disk, I have also installed my DVD player and CD
writer. My BIOS seems to recognize everything (as the vendor of each
drive appears on the screen while booting). However, I also get the
following message: "Secondary IDE channel no 80 conductor canler
installed". What does this mean? Is it important? The IDE cable seems
OK, and the drives connected are identified during boot.

-Apart from that strange message, my problem is that I cannot make the
system boot with the old OS. It tries to boot with the previous one
(the one on the old hard drive); I want to remove that OS previously
installed and install mine. I guess the problem is the boot sector or
something that tries to always boot from that drive. Is it possible to
boot from the new drive? How can I do it? I tried with several boot
sequences from the BIOS without luck. Do I need to override the boot
sector? How?

I'm a bit confused and probably just having some novice problem here.
Hope you can help me solve this!

Thanks in advance,
S.

 

[kony]

Hi everybody,

I had the luck of receiving a new computer with a better CPU and I'm
trying to install my current disk drive on it. I would like to keep all
my data in that drive and, if possible, be able to boot with the OS
installed there. I hope you can help me because I had no luck so far.

Since this is a hardware, not software group, we'll hope you
now proceed to mention the hardware specifics... since
ultimately the differences in those specifics would be why
you can't just boot the software (OS).

This is what I get:

-Apart from the hard disk, I have also installed my DVD player and CD
writer.

While these two items shouldn't really matter, it is better
to try to get a migrated Windows install working before
adding more items, rather than after.

My BIOS seems to recognize everything (as the vendor of each
drive appears on the screen while booting). However, I also get the
following message: "Secondary IDE channel no 80 conductor canler
installed". What does this mean? Is it important? The IDE cable seems
OK, and the drives connected are identified during boot.

It usually means you have a 40 conductor cable instead of
80. Many (optical) drives are only ATA33 and don't need an
80 conductor cable but a bios may warn you anyway. So it's
a matter of whether that warning bothers you, or if it stops
instead of proceeding to boot. The fix is obvious if
needed, use an 80 conductor cable.

-Apart from that strange message, my problem is that I cannot make the
system boot with the old OS. It tries to boot with the previous one
(the one on the old hard drive); I want to remove that OS previously
installed and install mine.

If you want to remove it, how is it a problem that it won't
boot? Pick what you want to do, either focus on getting the
old one working or getting rid of it.

I guess the problem is the boot sector or
something that tries to always boot from that drive. Is it possible to
boot from the new drive? How can I do it? I tried with several boot
sequences from the BIOS without luck. Do I need to override the boot
sector? How?

You can have several drives in a system that are bootable, I
mean with an existing OS, and you choose the boot order in
your bios. To boot the new drive all you need do is choose
it in the bios, but are you calling the "new drive" the one
that came with the new system, or the old drive newly added
to the new system?

I'm a bit confused and probably just having some novice problem here.
Hope you can help me solve this!

The first step will be to more thoroughly describe exactly
what the desired end result is, then someone can chime in
about how to get from where you are to there.

Usually when one wants to be able to boot an old OS
installation on a new system, they'll first prep the old OS
while still running on the old system. In particular,
making a backup just in case things go awry, and then
uninstalling any (soon to be unneeded) drivers from
Add/Remove Programs, and adding some addt'l drive controller
entries.

Here's one method,
http://www.ngohq.com/home.php?page=articles&go=read&arc_id=36
Here's another, a little simplier.
http://www.mostlycreativeworkshop.com/Article11.html

Beware of a clown named DaveW who claims it's impossible.
It clearly is.

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

I had the luck of receiving a new computer with a better CPU and
I'm trying to install my current disk drive on it. I would like to keep
all my data in that drive and, if possible, be able to boot with the
OS installed there. I hope you can help me because I had no luck
so far. This is what I get:

-Apart from the hard disk, I have also installed my DVD player
and CD writer. My BIOS seems to recognize everything (as the
vendor of each drive appears on the screen while booting).
However, I also get the following message: "Secondary IDE
channel no 80 conductor canler installed". What does this mean?

Its decided that you are using a 40 wire cable on the secondary IDE channel.

Is it important?

Yes, you wont get full speed operations on the secondary IDE channel without it.

The IDE cable seems OK,

Is it a 40 wire or 80 wire cable ? The ribbons themselves look obviously different.

Its possible you have installed it backwards if its actually an 80 wire cable.
The correct end needs to be connected to the motherboard.

and the drives connected are identified during boot.

A 40 wire cable wont stop them being identified correctly.

-Apart from that strange message, my problem is that I cannot
make the system boot with the old OS. It tries to boot with the
previous one (the one on the old hard drive);

You specify which drive to boot from in the bios.
Likely you havent dont that correctly.

I want to remove that OS previously installed and install mine.
I guess the problem is the boot sector or something that tries
to always boot from that drive.

Not if its on a physically different drive as you appear to be saying.

Is it possible to boot from the new drive?
Yes.

How can I do it? I tried with several boot
sequences from the BIOS without luck.

You must be misunderstand how you specify that.

Can you boot from a CD by changing the order of the entrys ?

Do I need to override the boot sector?

Not if the two OSs are on different drives.

How?

I'm a bit confused and probably just having some novice problem here.

Very likely.

 

[418928]

Hi,

thanks for the answer!

Since this is a hardware, not software group, we'll hope you
now proceed to mention the hardware specifics... since
ultimately the differences in those specifics would be why
you can't just boot the software (OS).

While booting, the following is detected:
IDE primary master: Samsung HD
IDE primary slave: HP CD-Writer
IDE secondary master: Memorex DVD drive
IDE secondary slave: Seagate HD

While these two items shouldn't really matter, it is better
to try to get a migrated Windows install working before
adding more items, rather than after.

OK, thanks for the advice.

It usually means you have a 40 conductor cable instead of
80. Many (optical) drives are only ATA33 and don't need an
80 conductor cable but a bios may warn you anyway. So it's
a matter of whether that warning bothers you, or if it stops
instead of proceeding to boot. The fix is obvious if
needed, use an 80 conductor cable.

OK, so I guess I can deal with this later, once I can make my system
work.

If you want to remove it, how is it a problem that it won't
boot? Pick what you want to do, either focus on getting the
old one working or getting rid of it.

Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly. I had a computer with a hard
disk H1 (that somebody gave me) and now I installed my actual hard disk
H2 (that I was using). So I want to be able to boot with the OS in H2
and I will later format H1.

The first step will be to more thoroughly describe exactly
what the desired end result is, then someone can chime in
about how to get from where you are to there.

Here's one method,
http://www.ngohq.com/home.php?page=articles&go=read&arc_id=36
Here's another, a little simplier.
http://www.mostlycreativeworkshop.com/Article11.html

Thanks for the links.

Some more info about my problem that could be useful:

With an old recovery disk for Windows Millennium, I'm able to boot in
MSDOS with CDROM compatibility. Here, I can see that "E:" is my
CD-Writer, "F:" is my DVD-driver, and
"C:" is the drive where the OS I want to use resides. There is also a
"D:" unit that I think is a
virtual unit with some files available in the "A:" drive (the label of
this "D:" unit is
"MS-RAMDRIVE"). I cannot find the drive where the other OS is (Windows
2000, the one I will format): maybe because it is a filesystem type not
supported from MS-DOS?

In the BIOS, I select as "boot sequence": "C, A, SCSI" (for example,
one where "C" is searched
first), and save the changes. When rebooting, however, now the only
thing I get is an automatic reboot every time, even if I boot in safe
mode. I think it is still trying to boot with the wrong OS, but I'm not
sure anymore (I cannot check because it reboots easily without any
additional warning). This has never happened to me before; the problem
I was getting yesterday was that the system was once and again booting
with the w

Thanks in advance for any suggestion,
Sergio

 

[418928]

Hi,

thanks a lot also for your answer, Rod.

Yes, you wont get full speed operations on the secondary IDE channel without it.
OK!


Is it a 40 wire or 80 wire cable ? The ribbons themselves look obviously different.

Its possible you have installed it backwards if its actually an 80 wire cable.
The correct end needs to be connected to the motherboard.

I'll need to check this. Anyway, I would be more relax once I'm able to
boot from my hard drive!

You must be misunderstand how you specify that.

Can you boot from a CD by changing the order of the entrys ?

Very likely.

I think the info in my previous message could help clarify what is
happening...

Thanks in advance,
Sergio

 

[418928]

Hi,

just another comment. As a last resort, I would format the hard disk
with the OS I don't want to keep, re-install the system there, and use
the other one only to recover my data. However, as I indicated in my
previous email, the hard drive I want to format doesn't seem to appear
when booting with my old rescue disk. And I would need to be very sure
that I'm formatting the right drive!!

Just another thing, the 80 wire cable is supposed to have 80 pins on
each connector or 40 pins on each connector? I have here one with a red
ribbon and 40 pins on each end.

Thanks,
Sergio

(e-mail address removed) ha escrito:

 

[kony]

While booting, the following is detected:
IDE primary master: Samsung HD
IDE primary slave: HP CD-Writer
IDE secondary master: Memorex DVD drive
IDE secondary slave: Seagate HD

Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly. I had a computer with a hard
disk H1 (that somebody gave me) and now I installed my actual hard disk
H2 (that I was using). So I want to be able to boot with the OS in H2
and I will later format H1.

So if H2 is the Seagate, to boot that you would need to set
the bios menu boot options to try that drive before anything
else that is bootable.

However, see the links I'd provided previously, you may need
to get this OS prepped as the links describe before it will
boot in this different system, by putting the drive back in
it's previous system temporarily to effect those changes.

With an old recovery disk for Windows Millennium, I'm able to boot in
MSDOS with CDROM compatibility. Here, I can see that "E:" is my
CD-Writer, "F:" is my DVD-driver, and
"C:" is the drive where the OS I want to use resides.

So what OS is it you want to use, that's on C:?
It would have to be FAT32 or 16 format, I'm only asking
because if it's Win9x or ME you don't have to do the things
in the above links, can just try booting it instead (you
might try booting to safe mode the first time to clean up
drivers that aren't needed).

There is also a
"D:" unit that I think is a
virtual unit with some files available in the "A:" drive (the label of
this "D:" unit is
"MS-RAMDRIVE").

Yes that's a virtual ramdrive your boot floppy created.

I cannot find the drive where the other OS is (Windows
2000, the one I will format): maybe because it is a filesystem type not
supported from MS-DOS?

Since you're not trying to save any data from that drive,
you might as well run FDISK and see if it can see the
partitions. At that point if you want to change the
partition #s and/or size, do that, just be sure it's the
correct drive you're working on.

If FDISK can't see that drive at all, check the drive
jumpers. Once you're done changing or happy with the
existing partition you can go ahead and reboot then format
it in dos, IF you wanted FAT32, or just ignore formatting
for the time being since you can later do that in windows
once you have windows booted and running.

In the BIOS, I select as "boot sequence": "C, A, SCSI" (for example,
one where "C" is searched
first), and save the changes.

If it won't allow booting any HDD but the one on the Primary
Master position, switch the drive positions so the other
drive is the Primary Master, or switch the cables and cable
positions if your cable is long enough to allow it.

When rebooting, however, now the only
thing I get is an automatic reboot every time, even if I boot in safe
mode. I think it is still trying to boot with the wrong OS, but I'm not
sure anymore (I cannot check because it reboots easily without any
additional warning). This has never happened to me before; the problem
I was getting yesterday was that the system was once and again booting
with the w

If you don't care about the old H1 data you can go ahead and
FDISK and/or format it... and then without an OS on it,
there's no way it could be trying to boot, but first try
what I mentioned above, putting the other drive on the
Primary Master position since your bios doesn't seem to
allow picking any other drive.

Once you are certain it is trying to boot the only OS
remaining, if that won't work then you need to either put
that drive back in the other system and make changes as
described in the links or do a repair install of the OS
overtop of the existing installation, but this repair will
revert the OS back to an earlier state that your
installation files were, so it's better to leave that as a
last resort.

Since you have the 2nd drive and no data you need to retain,
you might even consider a fresh OS installation instead then
you can transfer over whatever you need, though that would
take a lot longer than any other method.

 

[kony]

Hi,

just another comment. As a last resort, I would format the hard disk
with the OS I don't want to keep, re-install the system there, and use
the other one only to recover my data. However, as I indicated in my
previous email, the hard drive I want to format doesn't seem to appear
when booting with my old rescue disk. And I would need to be very sure
that I'm formatting the right drive!!

Since you can see the filesystem and drive letter on the
drive you don't want to format, just take care not to format
that. You need to determine why the other one isn't showing
up at all, if it were merely the wrong filesystem you should
be able to format it still (at least to what DOS supports,
FAT32 but you don't mention if you wanted FAT32 and there is
no need to format it yet if you don't yet need to put any
data on it - that can wait till the other OS drive is
working.

Just another thing, the 80 wire cable is supposed to have 80 pins on
each connector or 40 pins on each connector? I have here one with a red
ribbon and 40 pins on each end.

An 80 conductor cable still has only 40 pins, the other 40
wires are grounded together. If you have an 80 and 40
conductor cable side by side there is an obvious visual
difference in the # of conductor wires and their smaller
size.

 

[Rod Speed]

just another comment. As a last resort, I would format the hard disk
with the OS I don't want to keep, re-install the system there, and use
the other one only to recover my data. However, as I indicated in my
previous email, the hard drive I want to format doesn't seem to appear
when booting with my old rescue disk. And I would need to be very sure
that I'm formatting the right drive!!

The easy way to be safe when doing that is to physically
disconnect the drive you dont want to format.

Just another thing, the 80 wire cable is supposed to have
80 pins on each connector or 40 pins on each connector?

40, the number of pins doesnt change, just the number of wires in the cable.

I have here one with a red ribbon and 40 pins on each end.

Thats what all 80 wire cables have.

It should look quite different to the other cable ribbon wise, obviously more wires.

It isnt that easy if they are round cables.

 

[418928]

Hi everybody,

thanks a lot for your comments. They are all very useful. Some comments
of my own:

-The OS I want to remove is Windows 2000, and the one I want to keep is
Windows XP.

-It is strange that I cannot see the two drives at the same time.
However, if I disconnect the hard drive I want to keep, then then
system tries to boot with the other OS (so that drive is then visible).
So I guess if I have the two of them connected at the same time, it
tries to boot with the one I want to keep and it fails for some reason
(rebooting automatically without giving any warning). Maybe the new
hardware is somehow incompatible? I had no problems with the old
hardware.

-I now see the difference between the two different cables! Thanks! I
guess I need to buy one with 80 wires!

So, as you see, my problem now is how can I try to boot the old system
(if this is possible; if not, I will have to reinstall in the new hard
drive... more work).

Sergio

Rod Speed ha escrito:

 

[418928]

Hi again,

an additional comment I forgot to mention. The failure booting my
interesting OS occurs independently of the cable (40 or 80 wires) that
I use for that disk. And also even if I boot in safe mode.

Sergio

(e-mail address removed) ha escrito:

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

Hi everybody,

thanks a lot for your comments. They are all very useful. Some
comments of my own:

-The OS I want to remove is Windows 2000,
and the one I want to keep is Windows XP.

-It is strange that I cannot see the two drives at the same time.
However, if I disconnect the hard drive I want to keep, then then
system tries to boot with the other OS (so that drive is then visible).

That might just be because you dont have them jumpered correctly.

So I guess if I have the two of them connected at the same
time, it tries to boot with the one I want to keep and it fails for
some reason (rebooting automatically without giving any warning).

You could get that effect if the drives arent jumpered correctly.

Maybe the new hardware is somehow incompatible?

Nope, its very unlikely to be that.

I had no problems with the old hardware.

The failure booting my interesting OS occurs independently
of the cable (40 or 80 wires) that use for that disk.

That's normal, the only effect the 40 wire cables
have is that you cant use the faster UDMA modes.

And also even if I boot in safe mode.

That is too, it looks more and more like you dont have the drives jumpered properly.

 

[418928]

Hi,

I have checked the jumpers and they seem correct. Both hard disks are
masters for its ID channel, and the other drivers are always slaves.
Besides, the BIOS identifies the masters and slaves properly. I have
tried to play with the jumpers but they really seem ok as they are. But
my system does not boot. Could it be some driver that the system tries
to load when booting? Any other ideas? The problem is that I don't get
any feedback about what is going wrong... By the way, every time the
system boots, it says that it seems the last time there was a problem
with the electric power and gives me the option to boot in failsafe
mode. That doesn't work either, as I said in a previous email.

Thanks in advance,
Sergio

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

I have checked the jumpers and they seem correct. Both hard disks
are masters for its ID channel, and the other drivers are always slaves.

That isnt what you said previously, you said

Besides, the BIOS identifies the masters and slaves properly.

So are you saying the above list is wrong and
that the last two entrys are actually reversed ?

I have tried to play with the jumpers but they really seem
ok as they are. But my system does not boot. Could it be
some driver that the system tries to load when booting?

Yes, that looks like the problem.

Any other ideas?

The problem appears to be that you cant just move a hard
drive to a new system and expect to be able to boot it with XP.

I'd physically disconnect the drive that came with that computer you
want to use now, connect the hard drive from the old machine to the
primary master IDE controller, if it isnt connected like that already.

Boot the XP CD and do a repair install of XP on the hard drive from
the old system. You do that by operating as if you are doing a clean
install of XP on the hard drive out of the old system, tell it to install
XP where its currently installed, DONT FORMAT THAT PARTITION.
The install will say that its found an existing install of XP and offer
to repair that. Accept that offer.

That isnt the same thing as the first repair option you see when you
first boot the XP CD. And if either driver is bigger than 128GB, you
should do the repair install with a CD thats already got at least SP1
included. If it hasnt, its best to slipstream SP2 onto the XP CD using
autostreamer. You will have to do that in your original PC obviously.

It should then boot the hard drive out of the old computer in the 'new' one.

You can then connect the hard drive that came with that 'new'
PC again and reformat it so you can use it for data etc.

The problem is that I don't get any feedback about what is going wrong...

Yeah, but that isnt unusual with the early boot phase,
its not easy to provide much useful feedback at that
stage before Win has been booted properly. It cant
even see the hard drive properly because the correct
drivers arent being loaded for it, so its not easy to
provide helpful error messages at that stage.

By the way, every time the system boots, it says that it seems
the last time there was a problem with the electric power

It actually means that the boot didnt proceed properly. Power
is just the most common cause of that, but isnt in your case.

and gives me the option to boot in failsafe mode.
That doesn't work either, as I said in a previous email.

Yeah, for the same reason, its trying to use the
drivers for the chipset in your original system and
that chipset isnt there anymore in the 'new' system.

Sorry I got sidetracked on the 40 wire stuff and didnt
tell you that you need to do a repair install earlier.

 

[noneofyourbusiness]

Hi,

I have checked the jumpers and they seem correct. Both hard disks are
masters for its ID channel, and the other drivers are always slaves.
Besides, the BIOS identifies the masters and slaves properly. I have
tried to play with the jumpers but they really seem ok as they are. But
my system does not boot. Could it be some driver that the system tries
to load when booting? Any other ideas? The problem is that I don't get
any feedback about what is going wrong... By the way, every time the
system boots, it says that it seems the last time there was a problem
with the electric power and gives me the option to boot in failsafe
mode. That doesn't work either, as I said in a previous email.

Thanks in advance,
Sergio

I may have missed this info in some earlier part of the thread, but,
what are the brands of the two drives??

I have had problems in the past with certain brands (coughMAXTORcough)
not liking to play with other brands, regardless of settings or
connections.

Have you considered using an IDE to USB adapter and connecting one of
the drives that way?

In any event, good luck with all this ;-)

....

[snip]

 

[418928]

That could be another thing to try... But I would have to buy one...

By the way, I forgot to mention that in the hard drive I want to keep I
had two partitions (Linux and Windows). I'm not sure if it's relevant.
I forgot because I haven't used the Linux partition since a long time
(the windows partition was the default one).

Sergio

Hi,

I have checked the jumpers and they seem correct. Both hard disks are
masters for its ID channel, and the other drivers are always slaves.
Besides, the BIOS identifies the masters and slaves properly. I have
tried to play with the jumpers but they really seem ok as they are. But
my system does not boot. Could it be some driver that the system tries
to load when booting? Any other ideas? The problem is that I don't get
any feedback about what is going wrong... By the way, every time the
system boots, it says that it seems the last time there was a problem
with the electric power and gives me the option to boot in failsafe
mode. That doesn't work either, as I said in a previous email.

Thanks in advance,
SergioI may have missed this info in some earlier part of the thread, but,

what are the brands of the two drives??

I have had problems in the past with certain brands (coughMAXTORcough)
not liking to play with other brands, regardless of settings or
connections.

Have you considered using an IDE to USB adapter and connecting one of
the drives that way?

In any event, good luck with all this ;-)

...

[snip]- Ocultar texto de la cita -- Mostrar texto de la cita -

 

[Rod Speed]

That could be another thing to try... But I would have to buy one...

By the way, I forgot to mention that in the hard drive I want to keep
I had two partitions (Linux and Windows). I'm not sure if it's relevant.

Nar, its not relevant. Its only XP that needs a repair install when
you put a hard drive with it installed into a different system.

I forgot because I haven't used the Linux partition since
a long time (the windows partition was the default one).

It should still boot fine if you ever need to, linux generally handles that hard
drive move situation better, but takes longer to boot because of that. It
essentially scans for the hardware on every boot. XP does that at install time.

More below.


Bet that hard drive that was moved to the 'new' system wont even
boot XP even when the hard drive in that 'new' system is disconnected.