Help!!! I am stuck. (Heatsinking Heatsinking...)

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Silence Seeker

I recently purchased VIA's EPIA-M10000 (Nehemiah) mainboard and
happily went to install it on (also newly purchased) CheckerCube 2215
case and a Seagate Barracuda V 60GB HDD.

The only reason I decided to purchase the EPIA-M10000 was the promise
of a silent computer.

I was disappointed. The CPU's 40mm fan noise is driving me crazy.

Since the EPIA-M10000's CPU is low power (in today's terms), I thought
it would be easy to buy an off-the-shelf silent heatsink and replace
the one that came with the mainboard.

But I couldn't find any solution in existence that would not require
me to have a metal processing shop and/or risk burning the
CPU/mainbord by implementing a solution that is not tried and true.

Here is a summary of possible solutions I found in various places on
the Internet:


-------------------

http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/cnps6100alcu.htm
Problem: says "coming soon" (i.e. not available right now). Also, even
if it were available:
(1) It is for Socket 370 and the M10000 doesn't have a CPU socket.
Thus it will not mechanically fit.
(2) A posting in http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview.cfm?catid=32&threadid=39542
says it is actually for 933MHz and **lower**, not higher as the Zalman
web page states.
(3) It still requires some fan... (designed to work with forced air)
:-(

-------------------

http://lumpi.the-lions.org/werkstatt.html
Problem: too much metal work involved (and I don't have the tools for
that). Also, even if I were able to manufacture that copper plate, the
web page says it fits the EPIA 8000, but does it fit the M10000? (i.e.
mechanically on the mainboard).

-------------------

A poster at http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview.cfm?catid=32&threadid=42622,
said he purchased a 19dB 40mm fan and replaced the one that came with
the mainboard. He claims it is now "whisper quiet". What is "whisper
quiet"? I don't mind spending $13 on a truly silent solution, but why
do I suspect that it is not going to satisfy me? (Hint: VIA also
claimed that their EPIA-M10000 is quiet... also, 40mm is 40mm is 40mm,
which is noisier than 80mm, which is noisier than 120mm...) Another
thing is that this 19dB fan doesn't have the airflow of the stock CPU
fan, and so it runs at about 60c instead of 52c. Thus, if all the 19dB
fan does is trade off noise for performance, I can use a 50ohm
resistor to slow down the existing fan (see
http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview.cfm?catid=32&threadid=39565&STARTPAGE=1),
which is much less expensive. Right?

-------------------

Another poster suggested placing a shim of solid aluminum or copper
(where do you get one???) about 10mm high onto the cpu, and then mount
a Zalman, all copper, P4 2Ghz+ class flower cooler on top of that.
This way the hugeness of the Zalman cooler can clear the RAM/Capacitor
stack on the mainboard. Problem: too much metal work involved fitting
the shim onto the CPU. I don't mind gluing it, instead of using the
two diagonal screws on the mainboard, but how do I know that this
solution thermally works **before** I glue it?

-------------------

Another poster at http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview.cfm?catid=32&threadid=42622
implemented a solution in which he took the fan off the M10k heatsink.
In its place he used an 80mm case fan that blows air across the heat
sink parallel to the fins (as opposed to down), at 2550 rpm. It takes
air in from outside the right side of the case through a small grate,
across the heat sink and then through the rest of the case. The air
then exits out a grate on the left side. Temp stays below 50C at
steady state in the bios screen using this configuration. This is
using the original tiney heatsink that came with the mainboard.

I like this solution since I don't think I can get away without using
ANY fan in the system (I have a fanless power supply INSIDE the
case...). I wonder whether this solution can work in my case, since
the ventilation holes on the sides of the CheckerCube-2215 case may
not be enough.

-------------------

So many options and yet none of them is something that I can implement
within 1-2 hours of work and/or with confidence that it is going to
work. Which one do I choose?

If you have additional suggestions/solutions/ideas, I would appreciate
reading them here.

Thanks,
Sam
 
Silence said:
Another poster at http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview.cfm?catid=32&threadid=42622
implemented a solution in which he took the fan off the M10k heatsink.
In its place he used an 80mm case fan that blows air across the heat
sink parallel to the fins (as opposed to down), at 2550 rpm. It takes
air in from outside the right side of the case through a small grate,
across the heat sink and then through the rest of the case. The air
then exits out a grate on the left side. Temp stays below 50C at
steady state in the bios screen using this configuration. This is
using the original tiney heatsink that came with the mainboard.

I like this solution since I don't think I can get away without using
ANY fan in the system (I have a fanless power supply INSIDE the
case...). I wonder whether this solution can work in my case, since
the ventilation holes on the sides of the CheckerCube-2215 case may
not be enough.

-------------------

So many options and yet none of them is something that I can implement
within 1-2 hours of work and/or with confidence that it is going to
work. Which one do I choose?

If you have additional suggestions/solutions/ideas, I would appreciate
reading them here.

Thanks,
Sam
Click to expand...

This solution sounds best to me.
Panasonic FBA08A12L1A 80mm fan
I'd wire it to 7v . It should cool a 10watt CPU no problem.
Velcro or double sided foam from Radio shack to mount it.
 
)-()-( said:
I have used an 80mm fan using plastic threaded standoffs and very long
4-40 screws over a GPU heatsink. Go to a hardware store and look
for very long 4-40 screws and plastic standoffs.
will clear the heatsink and be electrically insulated.
Click to expand...

Thanks again for your tips. I will certainly try this. I do have a few
questions, however, since I am one of those who like to understand
what they are doing ;-)

(1) Why does the standoff have to be electrically insulated, if the
fan frame (through which the screws go) is plastic and the CPU
heatsink (I think) is not connected to anything in the circuit (not
even ground)?

(2) From the location of the 80mm fan mounting holes vs. the location
of the screw threads on the 40mm CPU heatsink, it seems that only 1
screw will fit... How did you solve this problem?
I would favor to blow air toward the heatsink for this application.
Blowing air away, generally works best for for very long fin heatsinks
from what I've read.
Click to expand...

Do you have any pointer/URL to web-based resource (article, FAQ, etc.)
that can explain this issue in more detail?
Tha Panasonic are generally cheaper, but if the thickness matters,
the Zalman may be the way to go. (I use 4 Panasonic fans running at
7v for my system)
Click to expand...

Thanks. I will take your suggestion (the Panasonic). What I don't like
about the Zalman fan is that it doesn't have CFM specification (what
kind of a fan is that???). Also, the PAPST 412FM has simply too low of
a CFM to play with (although it fits perfectly and has the lowest dBA
rating).
 
Thank you so much for your detailed explanation. That really helps.
And as you were suggesting to Google on the subject of blowing
"towards" vs. "away from", look what I have found:
http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/00025.html

This claims to be the quietest 80mm fan in the world!

- Airflow: 19.4 [CFM]
- Speed: 1500 [RPM]
- Noise: 12 [dBA] (that's right - it's 12, not 21)

It looks even better than the Panasonic... (and the price delta is not
that frightening: $16.50 vs. $15.00).

So... I am locked on a solution (YOUR solution - thanks again!)

I only need to make up my mind now on whether I need to blow towards
or away from (somehow it seems to me that blowing air from the top of
the case is not that optimal since the hotter air is always at the top
of the case - but I am no expert in thermodynamics, so I may be wrong
of course).

Sam
 
)-()-( said:
Been too long, but I do remember reading an article that mentioned
blowing air away for long finned heatsinks. Try a google search here ??
That fan is supposed to create a focused airflow, so more reason
to blow air onto the heatsink.
Click to expand...


Well, you were again right :-)
Here is what I found on Google:

http://www.lostcircuits.com/advice/cooling/2.html
http://www.globalwinusa.com/faqs/heatsink/air.html
http://www.techspot.com/vb/showthread/t-4922.html
http://www.heatsink-guide.com/alpha.htm
http://www.thetechlounge.com/review.php?REVIEWDIR=aero_7
And the list can go on and on...

Amazing - so much material on the subject. Where was I sleeping until now?

Sam
 
"towards" vs. "away from", look what I have found:
http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/00025.html

This claims to be the quietest 80mm fan in the world!

- Airflow: 19.4 [CFM]
- Speed: 1500 [RPM]
- Noise: 12 [dBA] (that's right - it's 12, not 21)
Click to expand...

I am now confused - the comparison at
http://www.directron.com/noise.html claims that the PAPST 8412NGL has
a 47.5 dB noise level!!! (compare to 12dB claimed by the
manufacturer).

Whom do I believe now? (WITHOUT having to buy all of them to compare
them using my ears).

BTW, the recommended Panaflo is rated at the lower half of the table
with 54 dB...

Confused,
Sam
 
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