HELP!! Graphics card problem

[777]

Dell Dimension 8200, with two graphics cards driving 3 monitors:

Ti500 driving one DVI LCD (@1600x1200) (AGP)
FX5200 driving one DVI LCD and one non-DVI LCD (PCI)

The Ti500 failed - I think due to a fan failure; something in the Dell was
getting noisy - it stopped getting noisy and then the PC stopped loading
Windows. I swapped out the Ti500 and it booted OK on the two monitors on
the FX5200 (PCI).

So... dropped in a 9700Pro - Windows booted and it's AOK in 2D. I assumed
the problem was fixed ...

Until I tried 3D, i.e. Serious Sam 2; I bump the resolution up to 1600x1200
and I then get 'sparkles' on the screen and it's not long until either the
screen starts to "jump" and/or go blank intermittently and eventually the PC
crashes. I've loaded the latest ATI drivers and checked DirectX (9.0c).

Question: Is this most likely a power supply issue? The power supply is
250W. The old PC (Evesham) that I took the 9700Pro out of also had a 250W
PSU and similar drives; but with a 2.6Ghz instead of a 2.0Ghz P4 and one
less HDD. I know all PSU's are not the same, but it seems strange that the
9700Pro worked OK in the old rig and immediately hates the Dell.

Any advice most appreciated. I'd hate to buy a new 400W PSU and find that
nothing has changed.

 

[kony]

Dell Dimension 8200, with two graphics cards driving 3 monitors:

Ti500 driving one DVI LCD (@1600x1200) (AGP)
FX5200 driving one DVI LCD and one non-DVI LCD (PCI)

The Ti500 failed - I think due to a fan failure; something in the Dell was
getting noisy - it stopped getting noisy and then the PC stopped loading
Windows. I swapped out the Ti500 and it booted OK on the two monitors on
the FX5200 (PCI).

Err, had you considered seeing what the noise was?
Fan failure is pretty serious, especially on a Dell there
are no redundant fans, each is pretty important.

So... dropped in a 9700Pro - Windows booted and it's AOK in 2D. I assumed
the problem was fixed ...

Until I tried 3D, i.e. Serious Sam 2; I bump the resolution up to 1600x1200
and I then get 'sparkles' on the screen and it's not long until either the
screen starts to "jump" and/or go blank intermittently and eventually the PC
crashes. I've loaded the latest ATI drivers and checked DirectX (9.0c).

Question: Is this most likely a power supply issue? The power supply is
250W.

Sparkles sound like memory errors, BUT malfunction of the
card could be due to insufficient power supply. 250W
generally IS too low a capacity for a box with a R9700 in
it.

The old PC (Evesham) that I took the 9700Pro out of also had a 250W
PSU and similar drives; but with a 2.6Ghz instead of a 2.0Ghz P4 and one
less HDD. I know all PSU's are not the same, but it seems strange that the
9700Pro worked OK in the old rig and immediately hates the Dell.

But you have two video cards in the Dell, right? More power
consumption. Most people would've used a larger power
supply (already) with only one video card.

Any advice most appreciated. I'd hate to buy a new 400W PSU and find that
nothing has changed.

When dealing with a lot of changing system parameters it's
more difficult for us to pinpoint a problem but in general
you should get a different power supply even if it isn't the
current problem. Take voltage readings with a multimeter
and see if any are off very much under full load and average
operating environment.

You might make sure you have all remnants of the old video
card driver removed and try another (and another, and
another, since it's an ATI card) driver for the R9700.

 

[Wayne Stallwood]

When dealing with a lot of changing system parameters it's
more difficult for us to pinpoint a problem but in general
you should get a different power supply even if it isn't the
current problem.

Some Dells are known to have a different pinout on the ATX power supply
connector, it's still the same connector but the wiring is different.

Googling for "Dell atx wiring" will give you some clues, not all machines
are affected and the more recent ones seem ok, but given the wires they
have swapped over I'd check this on your machine before trying to change
the PSU.

 

[777]

Err, had you considered seeing what the noise was?

Fan failure is pretty serious, especially on a Dell there
are no redundant fans, each is pretty important.

Yes, lesson learned.

Sparkles sound like memory errors, BUT malfunction of the
card could be due to insufficient power supply. 250W
generally IS too low a capacity for a box with a R9700 in
it.

Thanks for the info. Out of curiosity, why do I only get problems in 3D and
more quickly at higher resolutions (it's run AOK in 2D for about 7 hours
now)? Does the card draw more power at higher resolutions?

Could it be that the Dell box allows less air-flow and the R9700 is
overheating? Is there anyway to check the temperature the GPU is running
at?

Also, I'm guessing not a memory issue as the R9700 has worked AOK for >12
months (though in another rig).

But you have two video cards in the Dell, right? More power
consumption. Most people would've used a larger power
supply (already) with only one video card.

Dell's are wonderful machines (sarcasm) - most/many do not accept a standard
ATX PSU. Drop a standard one into some Dell's and it will fry the mobo - an
issue with different pinouts IIRC. I'm therefore being a bit cautious.

 

[kony]

Yes, lesson learned.


Thanks for the info. Out of curiosity, why do I only get problems in 3D and
more quickly at higher resolutions (it's run AOK in 2D for about 7 hours
now)? Does the card draw more power at higher resolutions?

3D uses more power, and higher resolutions use more memory,
and more power.

Could it be that the Dell box allows less air-flow and the R9700 is
overheating? Is there anyway to check the temperature the GPU is running
at?

yes it could be overheating but that shouldn't be happening
till after running in 3D for awhile. Touch-test the
heatsink, try running with cover removed and a fan pointed
at the card. If that helps then consider removing, leaving
the PCI slot case bracket covers off to cause more airflow
past the card.

Also, I'm guessing not a memory issue as the R9700 has worked AOK for >12
months (though in another rig).

Memory may fail from ESD due to handling, due to capacitor
failure on the card (which is MORE likely after card has
been used for 12 months, not less likely) or other power
problems.

Dell's are wonderful machines (sarcasm) - most/many do not accept a standard
ATX PSU. Drop a standard one into some Dell's and it will fry the mobo - an
issue with different pinouts IIRC. I'm therefore being a bit cautious.

Check the voltages on the ATX connector and the wire colors.
OEMs may substitute a different color, but they would do so
consistently, same pin-positions and/or same voltage for
that color (except wires with stripe on 'em might differ
from those stripeless).

http://69.36.189.159/usr_1034/atx_on.gif

 

[Mac Cool]

777:

Until I tried 3D, i.e. Serious Sam 2; I bump the resolution up to
1600x1200 and I then get 'sparkles' on the screen

I'm fairly sure I've read of this same problem with 9700s in a.c.p.v.ati

I would try posting there.

 

[777]

Dell Dimension 8200, with two graphics cards driving 3 monitors:

Ti500 driving one DVI LCD (@1600x1200) (AGP)
FX5200 driving one DVI LCD and one non-DVI LCD (PCI)

The Ti500 failed - I think due to a fan failure; something in the Dell was
getting noisy - it stopped getting noisy and then the PC stopped loading
Windows. I swapped out the Ti500 and it booted OK on the two monitors on
the FX5200 (PCI).

So... dropped in a 9700Pro - Windows booted and it's AOK in 2D. I assumed
the problem was fixed ...

Until I tried 3D, i.e. Serious Sam 2; I bump the resolution up to
1600x1200 and I then get 'sparkles' on the screen and it's not long until
either the screen starts to "jump" and/or go blank intermittently and
eventually the PC crashes. I've loaded the latest ATI drivers and checked
DirectX (9.0c).

Question: Is this most likely a power supply issue? The power supply is
250W. The old PC (Evesham) that I took the 9700Pro out of also had a 250W
PSU and similar drives; but with a 2.6Ghz instead of a 2.0Ghz P4 and one
less HDD. I know all PSU's are not the same, but it seems strange that
the 9700Pro worked OK in the old rig and immediately hates the Dell.

Any advice most appreciated. I'd hate to buy a new 400W PSU and find that
nothing has changed.

Further info - if I use Rage3d Tweak then increasing the core clock
increases the sparkles / screen jumping immediately. Lowering the core
clock decreases the sparkles immediately.

Does this tell me anything? i.e. it this an AGP driver issue or similar
(i.e. mobo cannot keep up?).

I've tried removing the Nvidia card on PCI and it made absolutely no
difference at all, so I don't think this is a power issue. Also, if a heat
issue then I wouldn't expect the sparkles to change immediately on changing
the core clock settings.

 

[Mac Cool]

777:

Further info - if I use Rage3d Tweak then increasing the core clock
increases the sparkles / screen jumping immediately. Lowering the
core clock decreases the sparkles immediately.

Does this tell me anything? i.e. it this an AGP driver issue or
similar (i.e. mobo cannot keep up?).

I've tried removing the Nvidia card on PCI and it made absolutely no
difference at all, so I don't think this is a power issue. Also, if
a heat issue then I wouldn't expect the sparkles to change
immediately on changing the core clock settings.

Like I said, I believe it is a 9700 issue. A quick google search finds
this: "[The sparkles are] artifacts, they usually mean a card is clocked
too high or a mod is unsuccesful or impossible because the card is the
wrong type."

More googling finds similiar complaints to yours and no solutions.

I would ditch the card and get a 9800.

 

[kony]

Further info - if I use Rage3d Tweak then increasing the core clock
increases the sparkles / screen jumping immediately. Lowering the core
clock decreases the sparkles immediately.

So this is ONLY increasing core clock, not memory clock too?

Does this tell me anything? i.e. it this an AGP driver issue or similar
(i.e. mobo cannot keep up?).

yes it tells you that it is certainly not a driver issue,
and not a motherboard issue (unless the motherboard can't
supply enough power, but it has external power connector so
that shouldn't be a problem.

I've tried removing the Nvidia card on PCI and it made absolutely no
difference at all, so I don't think this is a power issue.

That can't be assumed. PCI card uses 5V, AGP uses lower and
higher voltages. It may not be the problem but it hasn't
been ruled out based on removal of the PCI vidcard.

Also, if a heat
issue then I wouldn't expect the sparkles to change immediately on changing
the core clock settings.

It could still be a heat issue too. Elevated temp lowers
the stable temp a GPU can run, and the moment you raise the
speed, the heat (temp) output immediately increses too. It
may not be the problem but an overheated card certainly
would be worse immediately after increasing the core speed.