help! A big bug in Windows Media Player 10 -- conflicting with Kinston Memory...

cfman · Jul 18, 2006

Hi all,

First please accept my apology for cross-posting. I really don't know which
area does my question belong to so as an intial try, I post to forums of
different fields and hope to receive attention and advice from experts in
these fields...

I bought a Kinston 1G memory for my Toshiba M4 Tablet PC long time ago from
newegg.com.

I am using Windows XP SP2.

The seemingly smooth upgrade brought me into hidden troubles: my laptop kept
crashing.

At the beginning I didn't notice it was all due to the memory because at
that time I was new to the whole laptop too(I upgraded it immediately after
I bought the laptop).

Gradually I began to find out the crashing was due to the combination of
Windows Media Player 10 + Kinston memory.

The memory was good on everything else except it was harsh to Windows Media
Player 10.

Whenever Windows Media Player was used to playback video, after about 0.5 to
1 hour, the laptop will always crash 100% of the time.

If the 1GB memory is removed, the original 512MB memory from Toshiba M4
remaining, then Windows Meida Player would have no trouble.

The Windows Media Player was so cursed by the memory that even when I use MS
OneNote to record a lecture or meeting, (OneNote internally use Windows
Media Player to compress audio recordings), after 0.5 to 1 hour, it will
crash with 100% assurance.

-----------------------

Here is a sample blue screen of OS crashing today:

KERNEL_STACK_INPAGE_ERROR
STOP: 0X00000077
(0X00000000, 0X8940AC00, 0X00000000, 0XB70A0C34)

-----------------------

Please note that the memory is okay with all other softwares and all crashes
was when MS WMP is active.

It was so difficult to notice this weird conflicting between Windows Media
Player 10 and the Kinston memory and I slipped through newegg's 30 days
warranty. Now they refuse to give me a refund or replacement.

I was stuck for long time.

So I decide I must find a way out, the software have to be able to work with
the memory,

can anybody help me?

Thank you so much!!!

Guest · Jul 18, 2006

You should use a program/utility to actually test the RAM. Not just rely on
the "my other programs have no issues".

Mike Williams · Jul 18, 2006

cfman said:
Hi all,

First please accept my apology for cross-posting. I really don't know which
area does my question belong to so as an intial try, I post to forums of
different fields and hope to receive attention and advice from experts in
these fields...

This is really wild cross-posting. I can't imagine what half of these
groups have to do with the subject. Did you examine posts or FAQs for
any of these groups?????????

I bought a Kinston 1G memory for my Toshiba M4 Tablet PC long time ago from
newegg.com.

Kingston memory chips? I haven't had any problems with them (on a Tablet
and with Windows Media Player).

I'd be checking there are no Toshiba BIOS issues with Toshiba support.

John Jay Smith · Jul 18, 2006

that does not mean wmp is the problem...

go to your bios and see if there is an option for
timing controled by SPD

if not try manualy adjusting the timing of the ram
by increasing the latency, ect....

cfman · Jul 18, 2006

You should use a program/utility to actually test the RAM. Not just rely
on the "my other programs have no issues".

what program? I didn't know that...

Patrick Keenan · Jul 18, 2006

cfman said:
Hi all,

First please accept my apology for cross-posting. I really don't know which
area does my question belong to so as an intial try, I post to forums of
different fields and hope to receive attention and advice from experts in
these fields...

I bought a Kinston 1G memory for my Toshiba M4 Tablet PC long time ago from
newegg.com.

I am using Windows XP SP2.

The seemingly smooth upgrade brought me into hidden troubles: my laptop kept
crashing.

At the beginning I didn't notice it was all due to the memory because at
that time I was new to the whole laptop too(I upgraded it immediately after
I bought the laptop).

Gradually I began to find out the crashing was due to the combination of
Windows Media Player 10 + Kinston memory.

The memory was good on everything else except it was harsh to Windows Media
Player 10.

Whenever Windows Media Player was used to playback video, after about 0.5 to
1 hour, the laptop will always crash 100% of the time.

If the 1GB memory is removed, the original 512MB memory from Toshiba M4
remaining, then Windows Meida Player would have no trouble.

The Windows Media Player was so cursed by the memory that even when I use MS
OneNote to record a lecture or meeting, (OneNote internally use Windows
Media Player to compress audio recordings), after 0.5 to 1 hour, it will
crash with 100% assurance.

-----------------------

Here is a sample blue screen of OS crashing today:

KERNEL_STACK_INPAGE_ERROR
STOP: 0X00000077
(0X00000000, 0X8940AC00, 0X00000000, 0XB70A0C34)

-----------------------

Please note that the memory is okay with all other softwares and all crashes
was when MS WMP is active.

It was so difficult to notice this weird conflicting between Windows Media
Player 10 and the Kinston memory and I slipped through newegg's 30 days
warranty. Now they refuse to give me a refund or replacement.

I was stuck for long time.

So I decide I must find a way out, the software have to be able to work with
the memory,

can anybody help me?

Thank you so much!!!

This may not be a conflict with Kingston memory.

Instead, it may simply be a bad piece of RAM whose defect appears only
under load. The fact that you can prevent the error by removing the
original RAM is a clue to this, particularly since damaged or unreliable RAM
is one of the known causes of this error. .

Have you been able to swap in a different stick of RAM?

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=315266

"Defective or unreliable random access memory (RAM) is another common cause
of this issue."

In the meantime, you *might* be able to change BIOS memory settings to be a
bit gentler on the memory (i.e. slower), and so avoid the problem.

HTH
-pk

cfman · Jul 18, 2006

John Jay Smith said:
that does not mean wmp is the problem...

go to your bios and see if there is an option for
timing controled by SPD

if not try manualy adjusting the timing of the ram
by increasing the latency, ect....

Timing?

Please be advised before I bought the chip and I did my homework a lot, and
in particular,

I've used the following website and software tool to determine what was the
memory that fits into my system:

http://www.crucial.com/systemscanner/

Their recommendation:

Crucial recommends this 200-pin SODIMM DDR2 PC2-4200 module, or you can view
the full list of upgrades compatible with your Standard Toshiba Tecra M4
Series.
Details

1GB¡ªCT454277
DDR2 PC2-4200
CL=4
NON-ECC

-------------------------------

I then followed exactly the numbers and the specifications in buying the
Kinston on newegg.com...

What could be wrong?

cfman · Jul 18, 2006

Mike Williams said:
This is really wild cross-posting. I can't imagine what half of these
groups have to do with the subject. Did you examine posts or FAQs for any
of these groups?????????

Mike don't say that. I've already been very sad and extremely desperate. As
you can see, I could not determine what might be the problem so I post to
forums with diverse expertise...

Kingston memory chips? I haven't had any problems with them (on a Tablet
and with Windows Media Player).

I'd be checking there are no Toshiba BIOS issues with Toshiba support.

Could you please elaborate more on this? Thanks

cfman · Jul 18, 2006

Hi Pk,

This may not be a conflict with Kingston memory.

Instead, it may simply be a bad piece of RAM whose defect appears only
under load.

But when it crashes with WMP, it was quite low loaded. Only the WMP was
running in my latest test.

The fact that you can prevent the error by removing the
original RAM is a clue to this, particularly since damaged or unreliable
RAM
is one of the known causes of this error. .

Any way to diagonose it?

Have you been able to swap in a different stick of RAM?

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=315266

"Defective or unreliable random access memory (RAM) is another common
cause
of this issue."

NO I didn't. I don't have any memory stick avaiable. newegg requires 30%
restocking fee plus mailing charge even for a valid replacement within 30
days. Not to say I was already out of 30 days when I gradually learned my
frustrating memory + WMP problem.

In the meantime, you *might* be able to change BIOS memory settings to be
a
bit gentler on the memory (i.e. slower), and so avoid the problem.

How to do that? Please see my specifications below and please let me know
how to change the BIOS settings.

------------------------------------------
http://www.crucial.com/systemscanner/

Crucial recommends this 200-pin SODIMM DDR2 PC2-4200 module, or you can view
the full list of upgrades compatible with your Standard Toshiba Tecra M4
Series.
Details

1GB¡ªCT454277
DDR2 PC2-4200
CL=4
NON-ECC

------------------------------------------

How much is the overall performance going to be downgraded if I change a
number in BIOS?

I frequently have to run computational intensive jobs such as Matlab
programs and I really hope that I can have a percentage slowness estimate...

Mike Williams · Jul 18, 2006

cfman said:
Mike don't say that. I've already been very sad and extremely desperate. As
you can see, I could not determine what might be the problem so I post to
forums with diverse expertise...

And what relevance would "help_and_support", "device_driver_dev" etc
have to do with the problem????

Could you please elaborate more on this? Thanks

Check Toshiba's online KB.

John Jay Smith · Jul 18, 2006

do what i say

cfman said:
Timing?

Please be advised before I bought the chip and I did my homework a lot,
and in particular,

I've used the following website and software tool to determine what was
the memory that fits into my system:

http://www.crucial.com/systemscanner/

Their recommendation:

Crucial recommends this 200-pin SODIMM DDR2 PC2-4200 module, or you can
view the full list of upgrades compatible with your Standard Toshiba Tecra
M4 Series.
Details

1GB¡ªCT454277
DDR2 PC2-4200
CL=4
NON-ECC

-------------------------------

I then followed exactly the numbers and the specifications in buying the
Kinston on newegg.com...

What could be wrong?

John Jay Smith · Jul 18, 2006

chips of ram that are not the same brand may not work well together...

even if they have the same specs...

if its alone it may not work with your mobo so well...

this is not uncommon...

John Jay Smith · Jul 18, 2006

if you change the timings to be more slow.. (latency gets bigger have in
mind) then you wont be able to really notice any difference..
dont worry.. give it a go and post back!

Robert Moir · Jul 18, 2006

cfman said:
At the beginning I didn't notice it was all due to the memory because
at that time I was new to the whole laptop too(I upgraded it
immediately after I bought the laptop).

Gradually I began to find out the crashing was due to the combination
of Windows Media Player 10 + Kinston memory.

The problem is down to faulty memory. No, really, it is.

Return it and get a working replacement.

--
--
Rob Moir, Microsoft MVP for Security
Blog Site - http://www.robertmoir.com
Virtual PC 2004 FAQ -
http://www.robertmoir.co.uk/win/VirtualPC2004FAQ.html
I'm always surprised at "professionals" who STILL have to be asked:
"Have you checked (event viewer / syslog)".

cfman · Jul 19, 2006

Robert Moir said:
The problem is down to faulty memory. No, really, it is.

Return it and get a working replacement.

--
--
Rob Moir, Microsoft MVP for Security
Blog Site - http://www.robertmoir.com
Virtual PC 2004 FAQ -
http://www.robertmoir.co.uk/win/VirtualPC2004FAQ.html
I'm always surprised at "professionals" who STILL have to be asked:
"Have you checked (event viewer / syslog)".

That's going to be very difficult. They just want to make sure you don't
work all day and you just sit there and call this manufacturer and you know
all the aspects:

Here is newegg's response about my inquiry of the possibilities to replace a
memory:

Dear Cfman,

Thank you for writing back.

Please kindly note that as we are strictly a reseller we are unable to
provide any sort of technical support. In the situation, you may contact the
manufacturer for more information regarding the Windows Media Player and the
memory. When you get the feedback from the manufacturer please reply to this
email with your order number and login email address, we will then be able
to further assist you. Thank you for your cooperation.

Kingston Technology
http://www.kingston.com/default.asp
800-435-0640

Thank you,

XXX,

So now I have to call Kinston ... to get "feedback"? Will Kingston admit
there is problem with their memory?

cfman · Jul 19, 2006

Hey guys,

Thank you for your help! Before I even getting a chance to try your BIOS
trick to lower down the speed of the memory.

I got another Blue Screen Crash. This somehow defeated my previous claim
that "all the crash are due to Windows Media Player 10.0 and the Kinston
memory.

I did not use Windows Media Player 10.0 when the following crash occured.
Instead, I was using Skype. So this might be a problem of Skype(an Internet
audio communication software) + Kinston.

Before plugging the Kinston memory, there wasn't so many Blue Screen
crashes. So I am sure this is due to the Kinston memory.

The crash:

cfman · Jul 19, 2006

Mike Williams said:
And what relevance would "help_and_support", "device_driver_dev" etc have
to do with the problem????

Mike, you know, those 0x0000007E numbers are familiar to the device_driver
guys...

Patrick Keenan · Jul 19, 2006

cfman said:
That's going to be very difficult. They just want to make sure you don't
work all day and you just sit there and call this manufacturer and you
know all the aspects:

Here is newegg's response about my inquiry of the possibilities to replace
a memory:

Dear Cfman,

Thank you for writing back.

Please kindly note that as we are strictly a reseller we are unable to
provide any sort of technical support. In the situation, you may contact
the manufacturer for more information regarding the Windows Media Player
and the memory. When you get the feedback from the manufacturer please
reply to this email with your order number and login email address, we
will then be able to further assist you. Thank you for your cooperation.

Kingston Technology
http://www.kingston.com/default.asp
800-435-0640

Thank you,

XXX,

So now I have to call Kinston

Yes, call them, or just walk away and get another new stick of RAM and test
it within the warranty period. Live and learn.

... to get "feedback"? Will Kingston admit there is problem with their
memory?

Let's be more precise. There *may* be a problem with *a piece* of memory
they manufactured - not with their product as a class.

When will you admit that there isn't necessarily a problem with their
memory, but rather with the single, failing unit you have? You have tried
one stick of RAM. You haven't tried any more of their production.

*One* is seldom an appropriate sample size on which to base claims about an
manufacturer's entire output.

Yes, call them. You're looking for an exchange. The symptoms you list
indicate failing RAM.

HTH
-pk

Patrick Keenan · Jul 19, 2006

cfman said:
Hi Pk,

But when it crashes with WMP, it was quite low loaded. Only the WMP was
running in my latest test.

After running for over an hour. It's a load. The number of visibly
running applications is not the only determining factor in load.

While such problems are not statistically large compared to memory
production figures, it's not at all unknown for the odd stick of RAM to be
unreliable and produce crashes, or for two memory modules to differ enough
to cause problems. The approach is replacement; there are no moving parts
to oil.

Any way to diagonose it?

Yes.

Memtest, to start.

http://hcidesign.com/memtest/

Swapping in another known-good memory module, for a second step.

Contact Kingston and see what they have to say. They may have another
memory tester or other resources they can point you to.

At the moment, all the information you have presented points to a single
piece of unreliable RAM, not to a bug, conflict, or production issue.

NO I didn't. I don't have any memory stick avaiable.

Then you should remedy that. Swapping in another stick is the next step in
diagnosis, and it's the only way you will get information needed to support
your claim of a bug or conflict.

newegg requires 30% restocking fee plus mailing charge even for a valid
replacement within 30 days.

Might I suggest changing vendors. In this case, I'd suggest finding a
shop you can go to and test various RAM modules on the understanding that
you are buying one that passes all the memory tests. Including your WMP
test.

Not to say I was already out of 30 days when I gradually learned my
frustrating memory + WMP problem.

Yes. sometimes system problems can be harder and take longer to diagnose.
This is why components should be tested when added.

I have to say that your claim of a bug, that WMP 10 conflicts with Kingston
Memory, based on your sample size of *one untested memory module*, is
statistically unsupported.

How to do that? Please see my specifications below and please let me know
how to change the BIOS settings.

Check the manual for your system and explore the BIOS settings. Research
the meanings of the memory timing settings before making changes.

And know how to reset the BIOS before making *any* changes - it's quite
possible to prevent the system from booting with incorrect settings. If
that happens, you'll need to clear the BIOS to start again.

On the other hand, some BIOS's offer limited options for memory timings and
not permit this. You might need to also contact the laptop manufacturer
for further options.

------------------------------------------
http://www.crucial.com/systemscanner/

Crucial recommends this 200-pin SODIMM DDR2 PC2-4200 module, or you can
view the full list of upgrades compatible with your Standard Toshiba Tecra
M4 Series.
Details

1GB¡ªCT454277
DDR2 PC2-4200
CL=4
NON-ECC

Perhaps very slightly. On the other hand, reliability may increase.
Which is worth more?

But if a particular piece of memory is failing or unreliable, as appears to
be the case, this is a stopgap. The unreliable memory should be replaced
with memory that also matches what is already in the computer.

I frequently have to run computational intensive jobs such as Matlab
programs and I really hope that I can have a percentage slowness
estimate...

If you need a completely reliable system, you must test the components as
you install them.

HTH
-pk

David Vair · Jul 19, 2006

One question for you, with the new memory in how hot is the bottom of the laptop? Sometimes when
you boost up the memory it creates a lot more heat than before and this might also help to cause
some problems.

help! A big bug in Windows Media Player 10 -- conflicting with Kinston Memory...

cfman

Guest

Mike Williams

John Jay Smith

cfman

Patrick Keenan

cfman

cfman

cfman

Mike Williams

John Jay Smith

John Jay Smith

John Jay Smith

Robert Moir

cfman

cfman

cfman

Patrick Keenan

Patrick Keenan

David Vair