Head Leak on Epson C62 ?

[Davy]

I had enough of the C62, so I ended up dismantling the head assembly
yet again, as before I noted ink weeping from edge of the head clamp,
cleaning the whole face with isopropanol, re-assembling and a couple
of nozzles cleans brought it back to life along with the same old
symptoms.

So I removed the head assembley again knowingly for the last time,
upon removing the head clamp I was aghast with the amount of dried
ink that had caked up on one side of the clamp, the dried ink came
off in tiny clumps, I could see a small damp area where I presume the
ink had been coming from, the other three edges was intact with no
signs of ink build up.

Since this is the 2nd printer with the same print faults as the
original I am pretty sure that the cause was the same and a pretty
good bet that it was on the same edge.

It seems hard to imagine two printers with presummeably the same
defects, the nozzle selector board which is at right angles to the
print head, was intact and clean, no ink stains (this is a small PCB
that carries the connections to the print head), any corrosion of the
copper tracks will cause print problems and ink stains will cause the
copper tracks to short or become leaky to electrical signals that
drive the head.

What could have caused this in two printers I can only put down to
poor design or faulty manufacture of the print head. I doubt that
there is anything that I could have done to create this fault on two
printers in about the same period of time.

But as I have said it all began by a nozzle clean which seem to become
more frequent.

I put the printer where it best belongs - in the trash bin

Davy

 

[Ivor Floppy]

[..]

I put the printer where it best belongs - in the trash bin

The C62 was a cheap and nasty printer to begin with. All the reviews agreed
that it was crap.

 

[ato_zee]

The C62 was a cheap and nasty printer to begin with. All the reviews
agreed that it was crap.

Like the current Epson range, yet people never learn, they keep
buying, then complain here.

Bit like politics I suppose, elect crap governments, then complain.

 

[Davy]

Ivor floppy & Guest

How right you are, guess I have learned the hard way, I would have
been pacified and tolerated if Epson had offered me an alternative
printer with cash adjustment..!

Alarms bells should have sounded at Seiko Epson when two printers went
the same way in about the same period - but no.

It seems that Epson knew of the situation and 'passed the buck'
knowing the same problem would arise.

Oh boy, they have'nt even addressed the ink tank problem, with the
amount of head cleaning cycles they should offer bigger ink tanks,
especially for the price they charge, and who knows it just may well
be 'El cheapo ink' they do use, I ain't ever seen inside of an Epson
ink factory, have you, is it really that pitiful or that secrative
they don't want us to know - and don't tell me its special ink.

Better buying a Lexmark and tossing it overboard each time you want a
refill - It's much cheaper and you get a new printer for the price of
a set of Epson tanks. It's a known fact that Epson inks keeps them
going, this is why they offer cheaper printer's.

Davy

 

[Ivor Floppy]

Like the current Epson range, yet people never learn, they keep
buying, then complain here.

Actually - more like ALL manufacturer's bottom end ranges. All made and
built down to a price, all designed for a fixed (short) lifespan.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I think your analysis is probably correct, that a manufacturing defect
occurred in a group of these printers and you got two from the same run.

It's a pity, and I think had Epson been a bit more on top of things (The
UK does seem to have its share of problems with Epson's customer and
tech support) they should have provided another replacement from a
different batch of printers which did not have the defects.

Art

 

[measekite]

Ivor floppy & Guest

How right you are, guess I have learned the hard way, I would have
been pacified and tolerated if Epson had offered me an alternative
printer with cash adjustment..!

Alarms bells should have sounded at Seiko Epson when two printers went
the same way in about the same period - but no.

It seems that Epson knew of the situation and 'passed the buck'
knowing the same problem would arise.

Oh boy, they have'nt even addressed the ink tank problem, with the
amount of head cleaning cycles they should offer bigger ink tanks,
especially for the price they charge, and who knows it just may well
be 'El cheapo ink' they do use,

I do not think Epson ink is the same as the 3rd party junk that is out
there.

I ain't ever seen inside of an Epson
ink factory,

It is not the factory and who the laborers are; it is the formulation,
engineering and quality control.

have you, is it really that pitiful or that secrative
they don't want us to know - and don't tell me its special ink.

Better buying a Lexmark and tossing it overboard each time you want a
refill -

Total Trash.

It's much cheaper and you get a new printer for the price of
a set of Epson tanks. It's a known fact that Epson inks keeps them
going, this is why they offer cheaper printer's.

The R series printers seem to have decent reviews.

 

[measekite]

The R series appears to have decent reviews.

Actually - more like ALL manufacturer's bottom end ranges. All made and
built down to a price, all designed for a fixed (short) lifespan.

 

[Davy]

Arthur Entlichwrote:
I think your analysis is probably correct, that a manufacturing
defect

occurred in a group of these printers and you got two from the same run.

It's a pity, and I think had Epson been a bit more on top of things (The
UK does seem to have its share of problems with Epson's custome

Davy say's
Nah, Epson have never been on top of things - only fleecing people

out of their hard earned cash, is'nt that why their printers are much
cheaper to buy?

The first point last:
Arthur, I twice spent ages on the phone to Epson I twice explained

the problem, I twice wasted ink through their so called expert
Technical department'. I twice acted like a SUCKER sticking to their
inks whilst under warrenty and then I changed to Jet-Tec and don't
darn care whether its good bad or indifferent, whether I should have
used them or not - not interested.

You say the Epson's may have come from the same batch (totally

different S/N here by the way) I doubt very much but that statement
is not related to the clogging issue is it ?

These being the case why did Epson Technical not say "OH dear, we

can't have this, you'l either have to have a replacement, a refund or
a better printer with cash ajustment". Do you really think I did not
give them the options ?

This is why I say Epsons are crap and will never trust their

products again, anyone dis-agrees with that statement then kindly say
why I should buy or trust Epson again.

I would be more than happy for you to take this up with Epson US

and be very interested to here their comments, infact I just may
well do that my self -WATCH THIS FORUM-

But one thing is for sure, if they want their printer they have got

until Tuesday, that's when the garbage man come's and it's in many
pieces.

 

[Davy]

measekitewrote:

The R series printers seem to have decent reviews.

aye, for CLOGGING...! Read the forums and not just this.

Instead of quoting what I have already said, maybe now you will tell

us why I should buy and trust Epson again.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

LOL...

I have no personal experience with Epson UK, but I don't doubt that you
were not treated well, nor that someone at Epson couldn't have done
better for you.

It took years for Epson US/North America to establish enough autonomy
from the head office in Japan to imprint some of their personal
"culture" on handling customer issues. I can't say if Epson UK has had
any luck in this area.

I don't think Epson US can or will intervene with your situation. I
wouldn't personally waste time trying.

Of more interest would be using the same basic budget, buy another
printer brand (Canon, HP, Lexmark, your choice) and report back in 6
months to a year on how well the printer and or service techs dealt with
you.

In the meantime, I'd be interested in hearing from UK owners of C60
series and C80 series printers in terms of:

How well they have performed in terms of image quality and reliability
If they required service during warranty period, how well the tech
support or customer service there were at dealing with things.

That would be a lot more valuable information than if Epson US will even
speak to you. The corporation is unlikely to allow another country
operation to intervene on a Epson UK matter, for many reasons.

Art

 

[Davy]

Will certainly agree it would be a waste of time as its only
'regional'

I know someone with a C60, not an ounce of problem and that's why I
went for the C62 as you know it's the C60 replacement - the only
reason.

Tell you why I chose Canon should I.
I typed in Google 'Epson Crap then I typed in 'Canon Crap', could I
suggest you try it.

You'll find loads of head clogging complaints here even with new Epson
models - I even tried searching the bowels of the universe...!

Epson easily outnumbers Canon in printer problems
I take ALL mag. reviews with 'a pinch of salt'. The reviews I take
note of is the user's comments, user reviews, comments comming from
forums and not just this.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what I think is partly wrong with Epsons.
When it goes through a cleaning routine to waste so precious ink, you
get ALL the ink squirting in the inkwell, obviously the ink 'mixed'
is gonna make a pretty colour as well as being nice and thick.

Next stage of events is, suppose the ink level builds up enough to the
brim of the inkwell or to 'ink the heads', the darn mixture will get
on the heads, the heads wipe against the rubber cleaning blades and
pushes all the crap further in the nozzles - this is something that
keeps comming back to me, true or not I dunno - but well worth
thinking about coz it won't help.

I wonder just how many Epson's have been 'trashed' all because of the
waste pipe comming away from the docking inkwell, whats happens id
the ink build sup and dries, thus clogging the heads.

We will get one thing nice n' straight here.
At no time have I complained of the picture quality WHEN the printer
is working correctly - we are complaining of poor picture quality
with nozzle issues.

It is high time, Seiko Epson addressed the problem of clogging in a
proper manner, the Interllidge chip stops the tanks from running dry,
but we all know different.

Since Epsons clog with OEM or third party ink it points a finger at
something else.

Epson tells me never to clean the nozzles more than 6 times or the
heads are damaged. Epson in a letter to me says 'air bubbles' will
damage the heads. Again NO MENTION IN THEIR MANUALS,

They never tell you not to leave the Epson 'HOME AND ALONE' whilst on
vacation. WHY?

Epson at present IS diabolical.

Davy

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I wouldn't be surprised by your admittedly very odd research technique.

People push Epson printers a lot harder than Canon's, some tend to have
more problems because of this.

Commonly, 3rd party inks are used and mixed with Epson OEM inks. Keep
in mind Epson is probably the company with the most varieties of ink
made and people who use mixtures of inks with different characteristics.

Lastly, Epson probably sells mor printers still than Canon, and has a
LOT longer history on selling good printers for image production, so
there are a lot of older Epsons out there, while some company's
prinmters simply didn't last long enough to "break" down many years later.

Art

 

[measekite]

I wouldn't be surprised by your admittedly very odd research technique.

People push Epson printers a lot harder than Canon's, some tend to
have more problems because of this.

Commonly, 3rd party inks are used and mixed with Epson OEM inks. Keep
in mind Epson is probably the company with the most varieties of ink
made and people who use mixtures of inks with different characteristics.

They deserve what they get.

Lastly, Epson probably sells mor printers still than Canon, and has a
LOT longer history on selling good printers for image production, so
there are a lot of older Epsons out there, while some company's
prinmters simply didn't last long enough to "break" down many years
later.

I think so too.

 

[Davy]

A very good point, using one brand then switching to another certainly
is not going to help, Il agree with you on that

Epson makes a variety of inks as you quite rightly say, I will add,
but for a variety of printers, unlike HP where you switch inks.

Mine clogged with Epson ink. I really do think this points a finger
in another direction and maybe a distraction from finding the root
of the problem.

There seems to be some clue about having to do more and more nozzles
clean as time went by, dried ink, sediments perhaps? As already been
suggested head cleaning routine, seems rather eerie to me.

Switch on, head clean, waste ink goes into inkwell, mixes, maybe
thickens, fills sufficient to re-ink the heads, blade wipes heads,
blades pushes ink off as well as being pushed into the nozzles -
pretty colours nice n' thick.

That idea you have sounds fine and dandy, especially incoporated in
ink tanks and will prove the cleaning theory.

Cheers and thanks.

Davy

 

[measekite]

Most of the people in this ng have problems with what ever brand of
printer they have. Many of these problems revolve around various labels
of aftermarket ink. These people do not know what they are buying and
many buy the same things under different labels made by the same outfit
and they have the same problem.

 

[zakezuke]

I won't go into details now but can assure you that most of what you read

here or on other forums is bound to be negative. Do we have places where
happy customers go and praise their products or do these people actively
seek out others who are also in love with their printers? No and not likely.

It's true that you gotta take any complaint with a grain of salt. And
it's also true that every printer has its querks. But the Epsons seem
to take this to a new level, from the mega amounts of ink it discharges
to the wipe that becomes displaced, to diaper that over flows, to the
mandatory maintance cycle that seems to be timed just shortly after the
warranty expires unless it's a demo model at the local office store
that gets turned on and off more than daily and ends up in a pool of
it's own ink. And you can tell talking with support that this is all
perfectly normal, "We reccomend that you put your printer in a plastic
bag".

And what really yanks my chain in the short time I was happy with my
printer I was the first to say wow. Wow the output is great. Wow, I
don't have to tweek with the color settings often. And this shifted
all too quickly to wow that is a hell of a lot of ink spilling on my
desk. Wow, it's not stopping. Wow, had I not taken the time to dump a
cup of it this would be worse. Wow, it's 6 months old. Wow I only
printed 1 5x5 image a day.

Should Epson address the following issues...
1. Head wipe.
2. Discharge system, replaceable diaper
3. Detachable head (too much to hope for) in the *unlikely* event that
it clogs.

....I would be in line that day to buy one. Hell, we're paying enough
in ink to expect a product that actually works. But unfortunatly one
of my requirements for any product I own is it's ability to work for
more than a year, or at the very least be able to be maintained,
repaired, kept in service. Might lower cost, might lower e-waste.

Support, well, support sucks all around.

 

[Frank]

Most of the people in this ng have problems with what ever brand of
printer they have. Many of these problems revolve around various labels
of aftermarket ink.

That's just about the biggest crock of crap we've yet to hear from
mesershit our local moron. The OP stated:

"...Since Epsons clog with OEM or third party ink it points a finger at
something else."

You simply can't be bother with the truth can you?
Frank

 

[Marky]

Davy,

It appears that you've had an unfortunate experience with your printer and
support in the UK but, as someone who actually worked in the US support (8
years experience) department for Epson, I disagree with some of the things
you've mentioned here or that others bring up in this forum.

BTW, although I left Epson support only recently I did not leave because I
thought Epson was a bad company, just to find greener pastures. I'm not here
to tout Epson products or to vouch for their corporate health or to one-up
anyone in technical knowledge (because there are things I simply don't know
that others here do). I simply missed the wonderful feeling of helping
others who need it...

I won't go into details now but can assure you that most of what you read
here or on other forums is bound to be negative. Do we have places where
happy customers go and praise their products or do these people actively
seek out others who are also in love with their printers? No and not likely.

Law suits against printer manufacturers (are they ALL doing this?) has
heightened awareness. Naturally, with increased computer/printer sales more
people will be accessing the internet. We are pretty much guaranteed to see
more and more people complaining about how they have been wronged by their
printer/computer manufacturer or their ISP.

It also goes hand in hand with more novice users having difficulty with new
equipment and blaming the manufacturers or accusing them of being up to no
good. Maybe some are but, from my personal experience, I know Epson to be a
fair company that had actually gone to great lengths (cost) to compensate
some of the US based customers who ended up experiencing the same thing you
did. They more or less acknowledged that some of their ink jet printers
encountered design problems and took steps to help customers.

I know from hearing from customers I dealt with that other printer
manufacturers have their share of issues and when customers called them they
walked away with either a good or a bad experience depending on the person
they dealt with at the time. The support people, like myself, can have good
days and not so good days and that can make a big difference on how they
interact with customers who are irate, stupid, arrogant, or just plain
ignorant (meaning they simply don't know, as opposed to stupid people who
think they know and don't listen).

You may have better experiences with other products and I certainly hope you
do. It's not hard to find a good product, but a good warranty and good
support can make all the difference in the world. I'd be interested in
hearing how you do with your new product throughout it's lifecycle.

Marky

 

[Burt]

If a printer gets run over by a truck or falls out of a 20th story window
and ceases to print, Measekite will blame it on aftermarket inks. One track
mind.