Hardware problem - RAM or MOBO?

[M Bourgon]

I just built a new machine and have been plagued with crashes. When I
first ran MEMTEST on it, everything came out okay. Both sticks in
bank 1 & 2 work fine (except for one set of errors when running it for
12 hours), and if they're in 3 & 4 they work fine, but in banks 2 & 4
I get errors. If I try one stick at a time in bank 1 or 2 they look
fine too.

How, without buying new hardware, can I determine if it's the
motherboard or the RAM that's having issues?


FOXCONN MARS
G.SKILL 2x1gb RAM
Intel e7500

 

[Kent_Diego]

It could be RAM, motherboard or power supply. Sometimes the power supply
connector does not make good contact and gets better if moved. Do you have
the latest BIOS for your motherboard? It has been my experience that Memtest
errors were always the RAM. Can you over volt the RAM or lower the frequency
to verify? "Replace with known good" is the only way to really trouble shoot
this.

Kent

 

[Paul]

I just built a new machine and have been plagued with crashes. When I
first ran MEMTEST on it, everything came out okay. Both sticks in
bank 1 & 2 work fine (except for one set of errors when running it for
12 hours), and if they're in 3 & 4 they work fine, but in banks 2 & 4
I get errors. If I try one stick at a time in bank 1 or 2 they look
fine too.

How, without buying new hardware, can I determine if it's the
motherboard or the RAM that's having issues?


FOXCONN MARS
G.SKILL 2x1gb RAM
Intel e7500

Is your BIOS flashed up to date ? It looks like their last BIOS was
issued a year ago. Sometimes a different BIOS can give entirely
different observable stability. Read the warnings in the flash
descriptions here, as to what Foxconn tools not to use, to update
the flash. (There appears to be an 8 pin serial SPI flash chip,
and for a change, it is socketed. That is what you'd need to
change out, if you brick the motherboard while updating the flash.)

http://www.foxconnsupport.com/downl...00001&series=en-us0000002&keywords=&sort=BIOS

Main Page.

http://www.foxconnchannel.com/product/Motherboards/detail_spec.aspx?ID=en-us0000338

CPUSupport page. The E7500 isn't in the chart that I can see.

http://www.foxconnsupport.com/cpusupportlist.aspx?type=mb&model=MARS&cputype=

Paul

 

[M Bourgon]

It could be RAM, motherboard or power supply. Sometimes the power supply
connector does not make good contact and gets better if moved. Do you have
the latest BIOS for your motherboard? It has been my experience that Memtest
errors were always the RAM. Can you over volt the RAM or lower the frequency
to verify? "Replace with known good" is the only way to really trouble shoot
this.

Kent

2nd power supply (I was at 550, which was at the low end of
recommended, and it seemed that plugging in another HD was causing
problems.
BIOS - I've got the latest from their site, though it's hard to tell
when it's from. (p16). I have no idea about over/undervolting the
RAM, especially if that's going to void the warranty.

Replace with known good, then. I'll have to bum from a friend - I've
spent enough trying to replace parts, for one month.

And to reply to Paul: crap. That'd suck mightily, if the CPU isn't
supported.

 

[Paul]

2nd power supply (I was at 550, which was at the low end of
recommended, and it seemed that plugging in another HD was causing
problems.
BIOS - I've got the latest from their site, though it's hard to tell
when it's from. (p16). I have no idea about over/undervolting the
RAM, especially if that's going to void the warranty.

Replace with known good, then. I'll have to bum from a friend - I've
spent enough trying to replace parts, for one month.

And to reply to Paul: crap. That'd suck mightily, if the CPU isn't
supported.

It probably means the list on the web site is not up to date. Although
sometimes, you can see messages on the BIOS screen that would suggest to
you the BIOS isn't happy. (Like updating NVRAM on every startup.)
The P16 BIOS says "Update CPU Micro Code", which is a way of saying
they've added some (unknown) new CPU support. The CPUSupport web page
is for BIOS P15, so the CPUSupport doesn't currently represent what
is provided in P16.

The best CPUSupport charts, show for each processor, what the minimum
BIOS version is that supports it. That is a good way to determine
whether you really need to update the BIOS or not. But not all companies
choose to document it that way, instead just showing what the current
release is good for.

Paul

 

[Fishface]

I just built a new machine and have been plagued with crashes.
When I first ran MEMTEST on it, everything came out okay. Both
sticks in bank 1 & 2 work fine (except for one set of errors when
running it for 12 hours), and if they're in 3 & 4 they work fine, but
in banks 2 & 4 I get errors. If I try one stick at a time in bank 1 or
2 they look fine too.

For dual channel operation and maximum performance, you want
to have the two sticks in like-colored slots, usually 1+3 or 2+4. As
I recall, you purchased DDR2 1066 memory. Maybe these?
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231144

They're specified to require 2.0 to 2.1 volts at rated speed. All the
motherboard BIOS configuration settings seem to vary, but it's
generally very easy to set the memory multiplier wrong and be
running memory out-of-spec. Download CPU-Z and make sure
your memory is running within specification. You can view the
SPD information with this tool, also.
http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

The SPD may set it to run at lower voltage and at slower speed so
that it will work initially in all motherboards. To run at rated speed,
it is often necessary to manually adjust the voltage, speed, and
timing.

How, without buying new hardware, can I determine if it's the
motherboard or the RAM that's having issues?

Download and run the Prime95 torture test.
http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/

If this test produces errors, and your memory is running within spec
and getting enough voltage, you might try bumping your cpu voltage
(vCore) a tad.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

I just built a new machine and have been plagued with crashes. When I
first ran MEMTEST on it, everything came out okay. Both sticks in
bank 1 & 2 work fine (except for one set of errors when running it for
12 hours), and if they're in 3 & 4 they work fine, but in banks 2 & 4
I get errors. If I try one stick at a time in bank 1 or 2 they look
fine too.

How, without buying new hardware, can I determine if it's the
motherboard or the RAM that's having issues?

FOXCONN MARS
G.SKILL 2x1gb RAM
Intel e7500

Plugging the modules into banks 2 & 4 puts the mobo into dual-channel
memory mode (as would using banks 1 & 3 together), which often brings
out errors that don't appear in single-channel mode. Try raising the
memory voltage from the normal 1.8V to 1.9-2.0V, increasing the drive
strength of the memory signals, or slowing some memory timings. I'd
try the memory timings first, notably the 1T/2T command timing because
it often works and has the least effect on speed of all the timing
settings (barely measurable). Slower timings can be written
permanently into the SPD chip of each module with an SPD editor like
SPDtool, but use it on only one memory module at a time and test the
module extensively before editing the other module because if
something goes wrong, you'll need the other module and its still-good
SPD information to boot the computer and restore the original SPD.
Don't ask how I learned this.

G.Skill, like most brands of memory, is usually made with no-name
chips, and I wouldn't buy it except from dealers that are generous
with exchanges and 100% cash refunds and pay for the shipping both
ways. So I buy such memory only from local dealers, like Fry's,
Staples, OfficeMax, and Office Depot, and would buy only Crucial
memory from a non-local dealer. BTW if you buy Kingston and get a
dud, their replacements seem to be a lot more reliable than the
originals sold by dealers.

 

[M Bourgon]

For dual channel operation and maximum performance, you want

 to have the two sticks in like-colored slots, usually 1+3 or 2+4.  As
 I recall, you purchased DDR2 1066 memory.  Maybe these?www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231144

Yup, that's them. AND, I've gotten them working - in bays 2 & 4,
they're totally stable. Been gaming heavily the last week without any
issues. But I'll definitely grab the CPU-Z and check things out.

The SPD may set it to run at lower voltage and at slower speed so
that it will work initially in all motherboards.  To run at rated speed,
it is often necessary to manually adjust the voltage, speed, and
timing.

The downsides of building my own. I might as well just overclock it
at this point; I'm busy mucking with timings and voltages anyhow...

Download and run the Prime95 torture test.http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/

If this test produces errors, and your memory is running within spec
and getting enough voltage, you might try bumping your cpu voltage
(vCore) a tad.

Thanks again for the assist.

 

[M Bourgon]

They're specified to require 2.0 to 2.1 volts at rated speed.  All the

motherboard BIOS configuration settings seem to vary, but it's
generally very easy to set the memory multiplier wrong and be
running memory out-of-spec. Download CPU-Z and make sure
your memory is running within specification.  You can view the
SPD information with this tool, also.http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

If I need to go read up on what all this means, please say so. Does
this help at all?

It says it's a Intel Core 2 Duo e7500 @ 2.93ghz, Core voltage 1.096 -
1.104V
Family 6, Model 7, Stepping A
Ext Fam 6, Ext Model 17, Revision R0

Clocks core speed: 1600.2 MHz
Multiplier X6.0
Bus Speed 266.7
Rated FSB 1066.8

Mobo:
Foxconn Mars

Memory: DDR2
DRAM Frequency: 533.4
FSBRAM 1:2
CL 5
tRCD 5
tRP 5
tRAS 15
tRFC 52
CR 2T

Slot #2: 1024
Max Bandwidth: PC2-6400 (400mhz)

JEDEC1 JEDEC2 EPP#1
Freq 266 400 533
Cas Latency 4 5 5
RAS to CAS 4 5 5
RAS recharge 4 5 5
tRAS 10 15 15
tRC 16 24 48
Voltage 1.8v 1.8V 2.100V

 

[Fishface]

If I need to go read up on what all this means, please say so. Does
this help at all?

It says it's a Intel Core 2 Duo e7500 @ 2.93ghz, Core voltage 1.096 -
1.104V
Family 6, Model 7, Stepping A
Ext Fam 6, Ext Model 17, Revision R0

Clocks core speed: 1600.2 MHz
Multiplier X6.0
Bus Speed 266.7
Rated FSB 1066.8

This is likely Intel's Speedstep lowering your multiplier to save power.
If you put a load on it, such as running Prime95 torture test, the multiplier
should go up.

Mobo:
Foxconn Mars

Memory: DDR2
DRAM Frequency: 533.4
FSBRAM 1:2

OK, I think your memory is technically running asynchronously
twice as fast as the stock speed specified by your CPU and chipset.
Since you do have DDR2 1066 memory, the memory itself should
be capable, but only at the specified 2.0 - 2.1 volts. Sometimes
you might need more MCH voltage to run it this fast.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northbridge_(computing)
Also, different motherboards will vary in their ability to run the
memory this fast.

If you set your FSBRAM to 1:1, and DRAM Frequency to 266, that
would be the stock speed of your other hardware. I have similar
G.Skill memory, but four sticks, and it is set at 1:1 with a frequency
of 400 with timings of 4-4-4-12 at 2.0v. That is technically under-
clocking the memory, but running at tighter timings. Your E7500
has an 11x multiplier, so if you ran your memory at 1:1, you might
have to drop your multiplier. My 400 MHz when multiplied by
your 11x multiplier would equal 4.4 GHz and I don't think it is
capable, certainly not without extreme measures.

CL 5
tRCD 5
tRP 5
tRAS 15
tRFC 52
CR 2T

Slot #2: 1024
Max Bandwidth: PC2-6400 (400mhz)

JEDEC1 JEDEC2 EPP#1
Freq 266 400 533
Cas Latency 4 5 5
RAS to CAS 4 5 5
RAS recharge 4 5 5
tRAS 10 15 15
tRC 16 24 48
Voltage 1.8v 1.8V 2.100V

So, how much voltage is *your* memory getting while running at 533 MHz?

 

[M Bourgon]

This is likely Intel's Speedstep lowering your multiplier to save power.
If you put a load on it, such as running Prime95 torture test, the multiplier
should go up.



OK, I think your memory is technically running asynchronously
twice as fast as the stock speed specified by your CPU and chipset.
Since you do have DDR2 1066 memory, the memory itself should
be capable, but only at the specified 2.0 - 2.1 volts.  Sometimes
you might need more MCH voltage to run it this fast.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northbridge_(computing)
Also, different motherboards will vary in their ability to run the
memory this fast.

If you set your FSBRAM to 1:1, and DRAM Frequency to 266, that
would be the stock speed of your other hardware.  I have similar
G.Skill memory, but four sticks, and it is set at 1:1 with a frequency
of 400 with  timings of 4-4-4-12 at 2.0v.  That is technically under-
clocking the memory, but running at tighter timings.  Your E7500
has an 11x multiplier, so if you ran your memory at 1:1, you might
have to drop your multiplier.  My 400 MHz when multiplied by
your 11x multiplier would equal 4.4 GHz and I don't think it is
capable, certainly not without extreme measures.

So I need to (or should) stay at this current speed of 1:2? Sorry,
not sure

So, how much voltage is *your* memory getting while running at 533 MHz?

2.115.

 

[Fishface]

So I need to (or should) stay at this current speed of 1:2? Sorry,
not sure

Well, is it stable? Does Prime95 torture test run without errors?

You can run the memory asynchronously, but I always run it synchronously
at 1:1. Perhaps the higher speed overcomes the slight performance
penalty. I would personally probably run it 1:1 and drop the cpu multiplier,
but if it's 100% stable, that is what really counts. Benchmarking is really the
only way to tell which is best. The single threaded SuperPi Mod is very
dependent upon the speed of the memory subsystem and would be a quick
way to compare any changes you make, if you are inclined to do so.

2.115.

Since it is getting the specified voltage, I suppose that explains why it is running
at all!

 

[M Bourgon]

Well, is it stable?  Does Prime95 torture test run without errors?

Nope. Runs for a couple hours, then reboots. Nifty.
So I guess the next step is to get with G.Skill and try and get a new
set of RAM and eliminate THAT as a potential problem.

Since it is getting the specified voltage, I suppose that explains why itis running
at all!

I suppose. Still a bit miffed, less so now that I can game for
several hours without hiccups.

What's odd is that I opened a trouble ticket with Foxconn, and from
what I can tell the board supports 800mhz RAM, but 1066 if
overclocked.

"The motherboard chipset spec does support 800mhz memory and OC to
1066mhz..
That is why you need to set the cpu speed:ram speed to achieve
1066mhz."

 

[M Bourgon]

What's odd is that I opened a trouble ticket with Foxconn, and from

what I can tell the board supports 800mhz RAM, but 1066 if
overclocked.

"The motherboard chipset spec does support 800mhz memory and OC to
1066mhz..
That is why you need to set the cpu speed:ram speed to achieve
1066mhz."

And if only my mother had taught me how to read and comprehend
things....
"Dual-channel DDR2 1066(oc**)/800/667MHz memory, 8GB. Max.
Enjoy a faster, smoother, more productive computing experience, with
DDR2 memory clocked up to 1066MHz!"
(it only supports 1066 if overclocked - doh!)

 

[Fishface]

What's odd is that I opened a trouble ticket with Foxconn, and from
what I can tell the board supports 800mhz RAM, but 1066 if
overclocked.

"The motherboard chipset spec does support 800mhz memory and OC to
1066mhz..
That is why you need to set the cpu speed:ram speed to achieve
1066mhz."

Someone in a review here had trouble running 1066 memory.
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186133

Try setting it to run at 1:1 at 400 MHz, dropping your multiplier--
400 x 7 maybe-- and test stability. Then, if it is stable, you can bump the
vCore a bit and try an 8 multiplier. But then again, I've had lower spec
processors like the E4500 that did not like fast clocks. Those were spec'd
to run at 200 MHz, though, but topped out at 333 MHz. Your processor
is only designed to run at 266 MHz, I believe. The memory is very much
dependent upon the CPU and motherboard. Had you tried bumping
the Vmch a notch and checking for stability (and Northbridge temperature)?