Harddisks mailfunction after being stored for a long while

[Marcel Overweel]

Hi,

I have the tendency to store old and unused hardware whenever I
think I might be handy in the future.

For harddisks, this means that I have had an old 8GB quantum
fireball and some 20GB drive, I think it was seagate but that
doesn't matter.

Both drives were in perfect working condition when I stored
them away for at least six months.

Both drives mailfunctioned when plugging back into a PC.
I can imagine loss of data due to magnetic signal degradation
or whatever, but one drive couldn't even be formatted and the
other had A LOT of bad sectors. Formatting that last drive
took almost a full day!

Now, I know that these drives had been stored away safely,
so this can't be due to mechanical shocks or heavy magnetic
interference... at least, not that I know of.

I've heard the same experience from another person.

What could be the reason for these mailfunctions?


Marcel

 

[Paul]

Hi,

I have the tendency to store old and unused hardware whenever I
think I might be handy in the future.

For harddisks, this means that I have had an old 8GB quantum
fireball and some 20GB drive, I think it was seagate but that
doesn't matter.

Both drives were in perfect working condition when I stored
them away for at least six months.

Both drives mailfunctioned when plugging back into a PC.
I can imagine loss of data due to magnetic signal degradation
or whatever, but one drive couldn't even be formatted and the
other had A LOT of bad sectors. Formatting that last drive
took almost a full day!

Now, I know that these drives had been stored away safely,
so this can't be due to mechanical shocks or heavy magnetic
interference... at least, not that I know of.

I've heard the same experience from another person.

What could be the reason for these mailfunctions?


Marcel

Think about all the potentials for disaster.

1) Fluid drive bearings, work as long as the fluid stays in
the bearing. Bearing failure is almost immediate, after
the fluid evaporates at high temperatures.

2) The platter has a lubricant on it. At one time, "stiction"
was a problem, where the head used to stick to the platter
surface. Some drives use a landing ramp, so the head does not
sit on the platter. Others just rest on the drive. The lubricant
can also have "ripples" in it, over the platter surface.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/08/040825093443.htm

3) The platter surface may not be immune to chemical attack.

4) The drive has a breather hole and particulate filter, and
on the outside of the drive, the label will say "don't cover
this hole". The breather equalizes the atmospheric pressure,
so that the air pressure inside the drive, is the same as the
atmosphere. The filter on the breather hole removes dust
particles, and has some resistance to moisture. But corrosive
gas could get through.

5) Any time that parts rub together, particles can break loose.
A drive with a landing ramp, is one place there is friction
on drive startup and shutdown.

6) The drive takes advantage of the air movement caused by the
rotating platters. There is air moving around inside the HDA.
A strategically placed filter pad, catches particulate as
the air recirculates inside the HDA. So any particles loose
inside the HDA, should be caught in the filter. I understand
on some failed drives, the inside of the HDA is coated in fine
dust, from surface degradation.

http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/op/packAir.html

If the drives are ruined, you can always open the HDA and have
a look.

Paul

 

[Calab]

| Hi,
|
| I have the tendency to store old and unused hardware whenever I
| think I might be handy in the future.

I've stored drives for years and never had any issues putting them back into
use.

Since you're having issues, I'd guess that the drives may have been marginal
when put into storage. What I'd do is connect them to the machine and just
let them spin for a few hours. If the hardware doesn't break right away, the
extended run and heat would help move any lubricants around and get the
drive into proper operation. If you still had issues, I'd suspect the
cabling, BIOS configuration or that the drives are just plain defective.

 

[~misfit~]

Somewhere on teh intarweb "Paul" typed:


[snip]

4) The drive has a breather hole and particulate filter, and
on the outside of the drive, the label will say "don't cover
this hole". The breather equalizes the atmospheric pressure,
so that the air pressure inside the drive, is the same as the
atmosphere. The filter on the breather hole removes dust
particles, and has some resistance to moisture. But corrosive
gas could get through.

And/or moisture.

Unless the drive is stored in a temperature-controlled environment everytime
it heats up or cools down (i.e. every day) there is going to be air movement
through that tiny breather hole. Most air is moist. Condesation inside the
drive in storage isn't a maybe, it's a 'for sure'. (Running drives create
heat which largely solves the condensation problem and then, due to air
expanion, drives the moisture out.)

Synopsis: If you intend to store a hard drive take it out of storage and run
it for 24 hours every couple months. <wanders off to fire up a few drives>

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)

 

[Mike Walsh]

Somewhere on teh intarweb "Paul" typed:

[snip]

4) The drive has a breather hole and particulate filter, and
on the outside of the drive, the label will say "don't cover
this hole". The breather equalizes the atmospheric pressure,
so that the air pressure inside the drive, is the same as the
atmosphere. The filter on the breather hole removes dust
particles, and has some resistance to moisture. But corrosive
gas could get through.

And/or moisture.

Unless the drive is stored in a temperature-controlled environment everytime
it heats up or cools down (i.e. every day) there is going to be air movement
through that tiny breather hole. Most air is moist. Condesation inside the
drive in storage isn't a maybe, it's a 'for sure'. (Running drives create
heat which largely solves the condensation problem and then, due to air
expanion, drives the moisture out.)

Condensation will not occur unless the relative humidity reaches 100%. That rarely happens in a building with heat and air conditioning. The amount of air going through the breather hole during daily temperature changes is insignificant compared to the amount of air that goes through during during normal use when the drive is powered on and off.

 

[~misfit~]

Somewhere on teh intarweb "Mike Walsh" typed:

Somewhere on teh intarweb "Paul" typed:

[snip]

4) The drive has a breather hole and particulate filter, and
on the outside of the drive, the label will say "don't cover
this hole". The breather equalizes the atmospheric pressure,
so that the air pressure inside the drive, is the same as the
atmosphere. The filter on the breather hole removes dust
particles, and has some resistance to moisture. But corrosive
gas could get through.

And/or moisture.

Unless the drive is stored in a temperature-controlled environment
everytime it heats up or cools down (i.e. every day) there is going
to be air movement through that tiny breather hole. Most air is
moist. Condesation inside the drive in storage isn't a maybe, it's a
'for sure'. (Running drives create heat which largely solves the
condensation problem and then, due to air expanion, drives the
moisture out.)

Condensation will not occur unless the relative humidity reaches
100%.

Really?

"Water vapor will only condense onto another surface when the temperature of
that surface is cooler than the temperature of the water vapor."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condensation

That rarely happens in a building with heat and air
conditioning.

My home doesn't have either. This room temp was 11°C this morning when I was
reading newsgroups. In summer it can reach 38° or so. Summer day/night
fluctuations are fairly significant. Enough to 'pump' a fair bit of air in
and out of a casing.

The amount of air going through the breather hole
during daily temperature changes is insignificant compared to the
amount of air that goes through during during normal use when the
drive is powered on and off.

Maybe so but during 'normal use' the drive is producing heat which helps
prevent any moisture from condensing.

TTFN,
--
Shaun.

DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)

 

[Marcel Overweel]

| Hi,
|
| I have the tendency to store old and unused hardware whenever I
| think I might be handy in the future.

I've stored drives for years and never had any issues putting them back
into
use.

Since you're having issues, I'd guess that the drives may have been
marginal
when put into storage. What I'd do is connect them to the machine and
just
let them spin for a few hours. If the hardware doesn't break right away,
the
extended run and heat would help move any lubricants around and get the
drive into proper operation. If you still had issues, I'd suspect the
cabling, BIOS configuration or that the drives are just plain defective.

No, it's just the drives.
Newer drives run just fine on same mobo and cables.

But the drives were 'old-ish' already so could be a combination of age and
moisture?, fungus?, who knows?
maybe even the Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator?

thanks,
Marcel

 

[Marcel Overweel]

Somewhere on teh intarweb "Mike Walsh" typed:

Somewhere on teh intarweb "Paul" typed:

[snip]

4) The drive has a breather hole and particulate filter, and
on the outside of the drive, the label will say "don't cover
this hole". The breather equalizes the atmospheric pressure,
so that the air pressure inside the drive, is the same as the
atmosphere. The filter on the breather hole removes dust
particles, and has some resistance to moisture. But corrosive
gas could get through.

And/or moisture.

Unless the drive is stored in a temperature-controlled environment
everytime it heats up or cools down (i.e. every day) there is going
to be air movement through that tiny breather hole. Most air is
moist. Condesation inside the drive in storage isn't a maybe, it's a
'for sure'. (Running drives create heat which largely solves the
condensation problem and then, due to air expanion, drives the
moisture out.)

Condensation will not occur unless the relative humidity reaches
100%.

Really?

"Water vapor will only condense onto another surface when the temperature
of that surface is cooler than the temperature of the water vapor."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condensation

That rarely happens in a building with heat and air
conditioning.

My home doesn't have either. This room temp was 11°C this morning when I
was reading newsgroups. In summer it can reach 38° or so. Summer day/night
fluctuations are fairly significant. Enough to 'pump' a fair bit of air in
and out of a casing.

The amount of air going through the breather hole
during daily temperature changes is insignificant compared to the
amount of air that goes through during during normal use when the
drive is powered on and off.

Maybe so but during 'normal use' the drive is producing heat which helps
prevent any moisture from condensing.

TTFN,
--
Shaun.

DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)

Thanks guys, much to read, but the end of the story:
it could have been everyting.

Thanks!
Marcel

 

[~misfit~]

Somewhere on teh intarweb "Marcel Overweel" typed:

No, it's just the drives.
Newer drives run just fine on same mobo and cables.

But the drives were 'old-ish' already so could be a combination of
age and moisture?, fungus?, who knows?
maybe even the Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator?

Fungus used to cause problems with floppy discs if they weren't kept
completely dry. The substrate (glue) that held the magnetic layer onto the
disc actual was a protien-based glue which fungus could eat.

I don't think that fungus would effect HDDs, unless it's mutated! The spores
of a data-eating fungus that will, in the near future, take over the world
with all the data it's managed to accumulate! Eeeeeeeek! We're doomed to
being slaves to giant mushrooms!
--
Shaun.

DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)

 

[~misfit~]

Somewhere on teh intarweb "Marcel Overweel" typed:

Somewhere on teh intarweb "Mike Walsh" typed:

~misfit~ wrote:

Somewhere on teh intarweb "Paul" typed:

[snip]

4) The drive has a breather hole and particulate filter, and
on the outside of the drive, the label will say "don't cover
this hole". The breather equalizes the atmospheric pressure,
so that the air pressure inside the drive, is the same as the
atmosphere. The filter on the breather hole removes dust
particles, and has some resistance to moisture. But corrosive
gas could get through.

And/or moisture.

Unless the drive is stored in a temperature-controlled environment
everytime it heats up or cools down (i.e. every day) there is going
to be air movement through that tiny breather hole. Most air is
moist. Condesation inside the drive in storage isn't a maybe, it's
a 'for sure'. (Running drives create heat which largely solves the
condensation problem and then, due to air expanion, drives the
moisture out.)

Condensation will not occur unless the relative humidity reaches
100%.

Really?

"Water vapor will only condense onto another surface when the
temperature of that surface is cooler than the temperature of the
water vapor." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condensation

That rarely happens in a building with heat and air
conditioning.

My home doesn't have either. This room temp was 11°C this morning
when I was reading newsgroups. In summer it can reach 38° or so.
Summer day/night fluctuations are fairly significant. Enough to
'pump' a fair bit of air in and out of a casing.

The amount of air going through the breather hole
during daily temperature changes is insignificant compared to the
amount of air that goes through during during normal use when the
drive is powered on and off.

Maybe so but during 'normal use' the drive is producing heat which
helps prevent any moisture from condensing.

TTFN,

Thanks guys, much to read, but the end of the story:
it could have been everyting.

Indeed. After reading this I spent a bunch of time with about 15 old HDDs I
have, some SCSI, some IDE, friring them up one by one on my testbed machine
only to give up halfway through. They can all go into the rubbish. Only one
of the disks I tested worked and it was only 2GB. Actually, I'll get my "odd
screwdriver bit set" out and pull them to bits, I might find a few strong
magnets that I can remove.....

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)