Hard drive problem - is it fixable?

[user]

All right, so I have become a victim of my own negligence. I thought only
other people's hard drives die. Wrong. However, I am hoping there is a
chance I can fix my malfunctioning hard drive. Here's the problem: recently,
I tried to turn on my computer and it wouldn't. For several seconds the
drives and the power supply made repetitive noises and then it shut off. So
I open it up and start disconnecting all the components one by one,
attempting to turn on the computer after each disconnect. Finally, when I
disconnected the hard drive, the computer turned on and began to boot up. If
I connect the hard drive back, the same story - noises, processor and hard
drive lights flashing for several seconds and then a shut off. This kind of
behavior gives me reason to believe that the problem is not mechanical, but
electrical and that the internals of the drive are stil intact. If anyone
has seen anything similar before or has any advice, it will be GREATLY
appreciated.

~L

 

[user]

It certainly looks like the drive is the problem,

but not absolutely certain. It might be that the
power supply is failing and the extra load of the hard
drive is enough to push it over the edge into failure.

I don't think this is the case because the system works fine with 2 CD
drives and another hard drive hooked up.

The obvious check for that is to try the drive in another system
and see if you get the same effect in that other system.

Yes, that's my next step.

It could be that the drive has failed and is overloading the
power supply, shorting it. That wouldnt normally see the
repetitive noises initially tho, it would normally prevent
the power supply from starting at all, but you can get
the effect you are seeing if its marginal with overloading.

A short circuit is what I am thinking. I don't know exactly how a power
supply is designed to protect itself from a short - perhaps when it sees
one, it tries to turn on repeatedly and if it fails, it shuts off.

If its the drive thats failed, you may be able to swap the logic
card from an IDENTICAL hard drive and recover your data.
Not all drives allow that tho. You dont say what the drive is.

I've heard about this solution too, but have not heard a definitive answer -
does it work or not? Some people were saying that the card may contain DRIVE
SPECIFIC info. The drive is Western Digital WD800, 80GB, about 1 year old.

 

[Rod Speed]

All right, so I have become a victim of my own negligence.
I thought only other people's hard drives die. Wrong.

A Jap would at least have the decency to disembowel itself.

However, I am hoping there is a chance
I can fix my malfunctioning hard drive.

Its possible. Just possible, not certain.

Here's the problem: recently, I tried to turn on my computer
and it wouldn't. For several seconds the drives and the power
supply made repetitive noises and then it shut off. So I open
it up and start disconnecting all the components one by one,
attempting to turn on the computer after each disconnect.
Finally, when I disconnected the hard drive, the computer
turned on and began to boot up. If I connect the hard drive back,
the same story - noises, processor and hard drive lights flashing
for several seconds and then a shut off. This kind of behavior gives
me reason to believe that the problem is not mechanical, but
electrical and that the internals of the drive are stil intact.

Likely, but not certain.

If anyone has seen anything similar before or
has any advice, it will be GREATLY appreciated.

Its unusual for the system to shut down in that situation.

It certainly looks like the drive is the problem,
but not absolutely certain. It might be that the
power supply is failing and the extra load of the hard
drive is enough to push it over the edge into failure.

The obvious check for that is to try the drive in another system
and see if you get the same effect in that other system. Or if
you cant do that, you could try a new power supply.

It could be that the drive has failed and is overloading the
power supply, shorting it. That wouldnt normally see the
repetitive noises initially tho, it would normally prevent
the power supply from starting at all, but you can get
the effect you are seeing if its marginal with overloading.

If its the drive thats failed, you may be able to swap the logic
card from an IDENTICAL hard drive and recover your data.
Not all drives allow that tho. You dont say what the drive is.

 

[user]

If you mean it fails with 2 CDs and 2 HDs, but not

with 2 CDs and 1 HD, that doesnt prove anything.
It may be the extra HD that puts it over the edge.

No, it fails only with the bad HD connected, regardless of what else is
connected. Even when the bad HD is connected by itself, with no other
drives, the problem remains. Also, the problem remains even if the IDE cable
is unplugged, i.e. only the power cable is connected to the bad HD.

Its not at all uncommon for a HD failure to produce the
repetetitive noises, which are basically the drive recalibrating
when it cant read the data off the platters properly, BUT its
unusual for the system to shut down in that situation in the
sense that its powering down, if thats what you meant.

So let's say a hard drive is physically damaged, but there is no short or
PSU overload, shouldn't the system still boot up and go through the POST? It
may not recognize the drive, but it should still turn on.

Yes, thats certainly true of some drive models.


Someone said in here just a week or three ago that it
didnt work for them with that drive. Not clear if the two
logic cards had the same revision level tho. They were
certainly the same GBs and RPM, but WD does ship
more than one physical drive config in the sense of platters
and heads with the same partial model number you cite.

Do you know where/how to obtain the circuit board for a hard drive? Thanks.
Also, do you know of any data recovery service providers that could take a
look into this?

 

[Rod Speed]

I don't think this is the case because the system works
fine with 2 CD drives and another hard drive hooked up.

If you mean it fails with 2 CDs and 2 HDs, but not
with 2 CDs and 1 HD, that doesnt prove anything.
It may be the extra HD that puts it over the edge.

Its not at all uncommon for a HD failure to produce the
repetetitive noises, which are basically the drive recalibrating
when it cant read the data off the platters properly, BUT its
unusual for the system to shut down in that situation in the
sense that its powering down, if thats what you meant.

Yes, that's my next step.

A short circuit is what I am thinking.

You dont usually see that produce the initial power up
and repetitive noises from the drive tho. Usually the short
stops the power supply from starting at all. The most you
might get is a very brief flash from the leds before it notices
the load on the power supply and shuts down because of it.

I don't know exactly how a power supply
is designed to protect itself from a short

It basically detects the higher than acceptible current.

- perhaps when it sees one, it tries to turn on repeatedly

It shouldnt do that. It should just detect the
short and shut down right away. You should
need to cycle the mains power to reset that.

and if it fails, it shuts off.

Thats what it should do on the initial detection of a short.

I've heard about this solution too, but have not
heard a definitive answer - does it work or not?

Varys with the drive model. Certainly works with
some, and certainly doesnt work with others.

Some people were saying that the card
may contain DRIVE SPECIFIC info.

Yes, thats certainly true of some drive models.

The drive is Western Digital WD800, 80GB, about 1 year old.

Someone said in here just a week or three ago that it
didnt work for them with that drive. Not clear if the two
logic cards had the same revision level tho. They were
certainly the same GBs and RPM, but WD does ship
more than one physical drive config in the sense of platters
and heads with the same partial model number you cite.

 

[user]

So let's say a hard drive is physically damaged, but there is no short
or

POST?
A bad response to the BIOS drive inquiry may crash the system. Like the hang
you get with the Award 32GB IDE bug.

There is a certain type of partition corruption that causes Award BIOS to
crash.

But when does the BIOS drive inquiry occur in the POST sequence?

 

[Eric Gisin]

So let's say a hard drive is physically damaged, but there is no short or
PSU overload, shouldn't the system still boot up and go through the POST? It
may not recognize the drive, but it should still turn on.

A bad response to the BIOS drive inquiry may crash the system. Like the hang
you get with the Award 32GB IDE bug.

There is a certain type of partition corruption that causes Award BIOS to
crash.

 

[Rod Speed]

No, it fails only with the bad HD connected, regardless of what else is
connected. Even when the bad HD is connected by itself, with no other
drives, the problem remains. Also, the problem remains even if the IDE
cable is unplugged, i.e. only the power cable is connected to the bad HD.

OK, in that case it is likely that the drive is the problem and
that the load is initially not too grossly excessive, but that
eventually its bad enough to shut the power supply down,
or your power supply doesnt just shutdown on an overload.

So let's say a hard drive is physically damaged,
but there is no short or PSU overload, shouldn't
the system still boot up and go through the POST?

Yes, and start whining about the lack of a bootable drive if its the boot drive.

It may not recognize the drive, but it should still turn on.
Correct.

Do you know where/how to obtain the circuit board for a hard drive? Thanks.

You basically have to buy a working identical drive.

Also, do you know of any data recovery service
providers that could take a look into this?

Yes, they can certainly recover the data if thats possible, but you'd
better be sitting down when they tell you what they will charge.

You could faint and hurt yourself otherwise |-)

 

[Rod Speed]

A bad response to the BIOS drive inquiry may crash the system.
Like the hang you get with the Award 32GB IDE bug.

There is a certain type of partition corruption
that causes Award BIOS to crash.

He did say it shuts down in the sense of the leds going off etc tho.

Not just hangs.

 

[Rod Speed]

But when does the BIOS drive inquiry occur in the POST sequence?

After the POST, when its enumerating the drives visible.

 

[user]

Also, do you know of any data recovery service

Yes, they can certainly recover the data if thats possible, but you'd
better be sitting down when they tell you what they will charge.

You could faint and hurt yourself otherwise |-)

That's what I was afraid of...

 

[CWatters]

Hi Rod,

Could this be heads stuck? (What's that called? Stiction is it?).

No rotation = high current = power supply shutdown

Colin

 

[Rod Speed]

Could this be heads stuck?

Nope, that doesnt shut the power supply down.

(What's that called? Stiction is it?).

Yep. And not common at all anymore now that drives
dont stop with their heads on the media anymore.

No rotation = high current = power supply shutdown

Nope, stiction didnt shut the power supply down.

The rotation motors are stepper motor drives
so you dont see a massive increase in current
drawn with the motor unable to rotate.

 

[Eric Gisin]

Press reset, the IDE light flashes once. The next flashes are the IDE
enumerations, the last flashes during post are boot.

 

[Rod Speed]

Press reset, the IDE light flashes once. The next flashes are
the IDE enumerations, the last flashes during post are boot.

Its nothing like that with many systems, particularly your first sentance.