Hard crashes

  • Thread starter Thread starter meow2222
  • Start date Start date
M

meow2222

Hi.


Got a machine that is prone to hard crashes, no response, nothing. Just
completely stops all activity or response. Usually with crashes theres
at least some response, making it poss to use utilities to see where to
look, but in this case theres no way to do that. Crash typically starts
as a program is started, but its not any specific one program. No BSOD,
no error msg, just frozen.

Its had a lot of stuff installed and removed (properly), but other than
this one bug its just fine.

488MHz, 256M, 98se - its clocked but it does exactly the same clocked
or not, I checked that first, and it passes overnight ramtest. It often
reaches 100% RAM usage, but that shouldnt be a problem. Any ideas for
where to start?


cheers, NT
 
Hi.


Got a machine that is prone to hard crashes, no response, nothing.
Just completely stops all activity or response. Usually with crashes
theres at least some response, making it poss to use utilities to see
where to look, but in this case theres no way to do that. Crash
typically starts as a program is started, but its not any specific
one program. No BSOD, no error msg, just frozen.

Its had a lot of stuff installed and removed (properly), but other
than this one bug its just fine.

488MHz, 256M, 98se - its clocked but it does exactly the same clocked
or not, I checked that first, and it passes overnight ramtest. It
often reaches 100% RAM usage, but that shouldnt be a problem. Any
ideas for where to start?
Click to expand...

Usual place, check for bad caps, try another power supply.

If it aint that, see if it still happens with an absolute minimum of
hardware and if it doesnt, add the rest back until it happens again.

If you still get it with an absolute minimum of hardware,
its likely a bad motherboard without visible bad caps.

If you're about to bin it, worth trying a clean install of SE,
tho its rare to get that effect with an install gone bad.
 
Hi.


Got a machine that is prone to hard crashes, no response, nothing. Just
completely stops all activity or response. Usually with crashes theres
at least some response, making it poss to use utilities to see where to
look, but in this case theres no way to do that. Crash typically starts
as a program is started, but its not any specific one program. No BSOD,
no error msg, just frozen.

Its had a lot of stuff installed and removed (properly), but other than
this one bug its just fine.

488MHz, 256M, 98se - its clocked but it does exactly the same clocked
or not, I checked that first, and it passes overnight ramtest. It often
reaches 100% RAM usage, but that shouldnt be a problem. Any ideas for
where to start?
Click to expand...

You know the drill: open it up and check for bad caps/ bad fans/too
much dust/overheating. Test the hard drive.

A bad PSU could be the culprit, too.

If the machine was overclocked long term, this is one of the few times
you'd want to consider swapping out the processor. As current one may
no longer be stable.
 
(e-mail address removed) wrote:

You know the drill: open it up and check for bad caps/ bad fans/too
much dust/overheating. Test the hard drive.
Click to expand...

Yes, already checked, no problems there

A bad PSU could be the culprit, too.
Click to expand...

Yes I overloooked that, will monitor it.
If the machine was overclocked long term, this is one of the few times
you'd want to consider swapping out the processor. As current one may
no longer be stable.
Click to expand...

Its within temp spec and not overvolted, so shouldnt be any problem
there. Also it passes overnight ramtests, so again no sign of anything
amiss there. I suspect the OS, its had so much stuff put on and
removed.


ta, NT
 
Rod said:
(e-mail address removed) wrote:
Click to expand...
Usual place, check for bad caps, try another power supply.

If it aint that, see if it still happens with an absolute minimum of
hardware and if it doesnt, add the rest back until it happens again.

If you still get it with an absolute minimum of hardware,
its likely a bad motherboard without visible bad caps.

If you're about to bin it, worth trying a clean install of SE,
tho its rare to get that effect with an install gone bad.
Click to expand...

I could do all those things but they'd be quite disruptive, the system
runs a lot of stuff. I think I'll save them until the machine's due to
be changed. I suspect a clean install will fix it.


ta, NT
 
Yes, already checked, no problems there



Yes I overloooked that, will monitor it.


Its within temp spec and not overvolted, so shouldnt be any problem
there.
Click to expand...

"Within Spec" does not always mean "healthy long term". If it were
hovering in the 60 deg C range, for example. And.... you haven't
swapped it out yet, and the problem still persists. If you have a
compatible replacement handy, you may as well try.


Also it passes overnight ramtests, so again no sign of anything
 
Yes, already checked, no problems there



Yes I overloooked that, will monitor it.


Its within temp spec and not overvolted, so shouldnt be any problem
there. Also it passes overnight ramtests, so again no sign of anything
amiss there. I suspect the OS, its had so much stuff put on and
removed.
Click to expand...


Software RAM checkers are imperfect. they CAN'T scan ALL the memory.
Some is taken up by the program itself, and some is eaten by hardware
(especially by integrated video). They can prove you have a problem,
but they are not enough to *prove* that you don't. It can STILL be ram
related. And I wouldn't trust an overclocked processor.
 
"Within Spec" does not always mean "healthy long term". If it were
hovering in the 60 deg C range, for example.
Click to expand...

Its over 60, yes. Rated to IIRC 85C. A lot cooler than the oldest
machine.

I dont honestly see how 60C is going to harm it though, it would need
to hit over 150 to sustain damage. Below that high temps will just
cause performance margin loss, hence possibly data errors. But it
produces none afaics. I've heard about high operating temps shortening
life expectancy, but if it passes its data tests its ok.

And.... you haven't
swapped it out yet, and the problem still persists. If you have a
compatible replacement handy, you may as well try.
Click to expand...

Yes, I dont for this one though, its one of the less common types, here
at least. But if it passes its calculation tests consistently...

Software RAM checkers are imperfect. they CAN'T scan ALL the memory.
Some is taken up by the program itself, and some is eaten by hardware
(especially by integrated video). They can prove you have a problem,
but they are not enough to *prove* that you don't. It can STILL be ram
related.
Click to expand...

Point taken. Out of 256M RAM, 1M is video allocated and something like
100k for the test program. So it tests 99.6%. Thats just as good a
ramtest as I've got, so I guess I can just say I'm 99.6% confident the
RAM's ok..


NT
 
Hi.


Got a machine that is prone to hard crashes, no response, nothing. Just
completely stops all activity or response. Usually with crashes theres
at least some response, making it poss to use utilities to see where to
look, but in this case theres no way to do that. Crash typically starts
as a program is started, but its not any specific one program. No BSOD,
no error msg, just frozen.

Its had a lot of stuff installed and removed (properly), but other than
this one bug its just fine.

488MHz, 256M, 98se - its clocked but it does exactly the same clocked
or not, I checked that first, and it passes overnight ramtest. It often
reaches 100% RAM usage, but that shouldnt be a problem. Any ideas for
where to start?


cheers, NT
Click to expand...


Ah, getting somewhere at last. After freezing once it BSODed, saying it
was out of memory. Sure enough the machine hovers at 99-100% RAM usage
during normal working. This ties in with the fact that it crashes when
an app is started, and with the fact that it used to swapfile like
crazy befofre the RAM was upped to 256. So, bootup, close any apps, and
this 98se system sits at 147M RAM use. For an OS wiling to run on 16M
that doesnt sound normal to me.

I went through Autoruns and unticked a few unnecessities, but it still
sits at 132M, so I didnt stumble on the problem.

Swapfile is 205M, not sure why its not bigger, as bigger seems to be
needed here. Its set to let windows manage swapfile size, is it ok to
change that to 2x256M? I presume so, just asking as I know 98 is
reaching its limits in terms of memory handling.

So this leaves 2 approaches: look for whats hogging RAM, or less
ideally, increase swapfile size. Wintop finds nothing hogging RAM, all
apps listed account for nothing like 132M.

Is there a more thorough way to track down a ram hog?


thanks, NT
 
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