Good inexpensive color laser or solid ink printer?

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rl27

I am basically at the end of my rope with inkjets, in the last six years I
have gone through 4 different printers, two of which were in the last 18
months. The printers have been HP, Canon, Epson and Lexmark. None of
which I have been satisfied with.

All four cost too much on ink, the ink cartridges would die out if they
didn't need printing all the the time. This was especially bad on the
color inks. My last two printers have both stopped printing and new ink
cartridges didn't fix it.

I currently have an ALPS printer for high quality color, but it is no
longer manufactured and I need something to replace it.

I have been looking at color laser printers, to replace both printers. The
costs have fallen drastically, but the toner costs is still a little high,
if it dropped to around $150-$200 for all four toner cartridges the costs
would be even better but I can live with the $300 range for toner
cartridges.

The models I have seen at various computer stores are HP, Minolta, Lexmark
and Samsung.

Which printer would be good for mostly B&W printing with the occasional
color printing, mostly for family vacation photos and possibly a few small
mailings to my family on christmas (i.e. christmas cards).

Also are any Laser printers good at printing on Photo type paper, or
similar.

The price range I am willing to go up to is at most $800, but would prefer
around $400.
 
rl27 said:
Also are any Laser printers good at printing on Photo type paper, or
similar.
Click to expand...

Lasers won't print you photos. (in reasonable quality) You need an
inkjet, dye sub, or any of those dedicated photo printers using some
other technology.
 
I am basically at the end of my rope with inkjets, in the last six years I
have gone through 4 different printers, two of which were in the last 18
months. The printers have been HP, Canon, Epson and Lexmark. None of
which I have been satisfied with.
Click to expand...

Been there, done that.

You will get several answers like the one you already have from inkjet
bigots who insist that ONLY inkjet or dyesub printers can produce the
sort of ultra saturated high gloss reproduction they prefer and insist
NOTHING else is of decent quality... many of us disagree...

Having just gone thru the same decision tree you can find a long post
by me made about a week ago under Dell 3100cn... basically:

On sale (and they run 20% or 30% off sales regularly) this printer
(which is a rebadged Fuji-Xerox, btw) can be had for under $400 (I got
mine for 384 with free shipping on a 30% off sale). You get Full 4k
page toner carts for black and all 3 colors, 5ppm in color, 16 ppm in
b&w, a 250 sheet tray and a 150 sheet multifunction tray. A complete
set of replacement toners runs $280, black alone is $65. The thing is
a tank: 17' x17" x 22" high and weighs 72 lbs. It's not as noisy as
most 4 pass printers and one thing is that it 'wakes up" from sleep
mode VERY quickly so can easily be left in that mode all the time with
little penalty.

U will also see the 3000cn...bad buy....removes Postscript, the Paper
tray and comes with Starter toners (2k Black, 1k color) which are a
joke forcing the purchase of a new toner pack immediately.. also they
sell a $220 pack for the 3000 which has 4k Black and 2k color toners
as a 'replacement'.. STILL only half filling the color carts....

You NEVER use inkjet papers with a laser as they have coatings to
control absorbtion of liquid ink that will foul a laser drum. Laser
toner fuses to the surface and laser papers are designed to be ultra
smooth to provide a more uniform surface. The results are more akin to
matte finish photos... with highest quality papers many of us find the
results more than acceptable for photos.

I'm quite pleased with the Dell so far
 
Coup said:
You will get several answers like the one you already have from inkjet
bigots who insist that ONLY inkjet or dyesub printers can produce the
sort of ultra saturated high gloss reproduction they prefer and insist
NOTHING else is of decent quality... many of us disagree...
Click to expand...

I may look like an inkjet bigot to you; however, that doesn't change
the fact that most of the photo printing is done with printers other
than lasers, and not without some good reason.
 
Nobody I know who is "into" photography finds the output of ANY color laser
to be suitable for photo prints.. PROOFS MAYBE but never a finished print.
 
Nobody I know who is "into" photography finds the output of ANY color laser
to be suitable for photo prints.. PROOFS MAYBE but never a finished print.
Click to expand...

As I expected the "nothing except an exact duplicate of a glossy
over-saturated photographic print" types have knee-jerked. On good
paper these color lasers will produce output equal or better than
almost anything you can see in any magazine. I suggest you see for
yourself if that's 'acceptable'... of course no, the results aren't
getting hung in any galleries.. but then neither is are the
photographs Larry produces either I'll wager...
 
Been there, done that.

You will get several answers like the one you already have from inkjet
bigots who insist that ONLY inkjet or dyesub printers can produce the
sort of ultra saturated high gloss reproduction they prefer and insist
NOTHING else is of decent quality... many of us disagree...

Having just gone thru the same decision tree you can find a long post
by me made about a week ago under Dell 3100cn... basically:
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply.

I looked at the Dell. One that looks promising is the Konica Minolta
2340DL is actually billed as printing photos. I haven't seen an in depth
review for it. It does have ethernet capability and works under Linux,
which are both selling points.

The OKI C5150N also looks good, the sample printout on Glossy paper looked
better than my current photo inkjet, and almost matched the ALPS I have.
Then again it is a test print, which can be misleading.

Also do you happend to know which Fuji-Xerox printer the Dell actually is.
I may want to purchase the Fuji one instead. I prefer not to buy rebadged
printers, but if the Dell is around the same cost I might go for it, as
much as I dislike Dell.

smooth to provide a more uniform surface. The results are more akin to
matte finish photos... with highest quality papers many of us find the
results more than acceptable for photos.
Click to expand...

The sample photos from several laser printers definitely looked good.
 
Thanks for your reply.

I looked at the Dell. One that looks promising is the Konica Minolta
2340DL is actually billed as printing photos. I haven't seen an in depth
review for it. It does have ethernet capability and works under Linux,
which are both selling points.

The OKI C5150N also looks good, the sample printout on Glossy paper looked
better than my current photo inkjet, and almost matched the ALPS I have.
Then again it is a test print, which can be misleading.

Also do you happend to know which Fuji-Xerox printer the Dell actually is.
I may want to purchase the Fuji one instead. I prefer not to buy rebadged
printers, but if the Dell is around the same cost I might go for it, as
much as I dislike Dell.



The sample photos from several laser printers definitely looked good.
Click to expand...

OK, first here's my post from the 29th which includes some of that
info:

Refusing to be suckered into the insanity of the ink jet scams as
printer makers dispense rediculously tiny amounts of ink in carts that
are becoming impossible to refill, and having had both Lexmark and
Epson ink jet printers that never stopped clogging because I don't use
them every day....I like many have been watching the low end color
laser market. Several friends went for KonicaMinolta 2300 series
units... the quality of the output is not bad, but they are bulky and
noisy.

I should explain that my use is a mix of colored printing (text, maps
etc.) and some photographic reproduction.. and my own bias is for
matte somewhat understated color, as opposed to the very high gloss
reproduction with colors that many prefer but I find somewhat over
saturated. I realize this plays into the laser category which in fact
tends to produce less vivid photo reproduction. That said:

1. The Dell 3000cn and 3100cn are NOT rebadged Lexmarks. While I
detest Lexmark inkjets, in fact I have both a Lexmark Optra R+ that
has been running for 8 years thru innumerable toner/drum replacements
and just keeps running and an Optra S1650 that has been equally
reliable. In any event these are the first Dells that are rebadged
Fuji-Xerox products... in fact they are the F-X Docuprint C525A.

2. Last week Dell had the 3000cn on sale for $270 with free ground
shipping and will probably have it on sale again.. but the 3100cn is
probably the better buy for reasons to be seen below. The 3000cn is a
PCL6 printer, has 64m ram standard, single MFT 150 sheet tray,
parallel, USB 2.0 and Ethernet inputs. You get Starter toners rated
for 2K Black and 1K color toners. Replacement toner pack (4k Black and
2k color) runs $220, but if ordered 'correctly' was also subject to
the 40% off sale.

3. The 3100cn differs in that you get: Postscript (making it useable
by Macs), the accessory Paper Tray (250 pages), and full toner carts
(4K for Black and all colors). On sale with next day shipping at 30%
off it comes to $384.

4. Dell is very coy about whether both machines can use the same toner
carts (they can). The "Full" color carts for the 3000cn are still
actually only half filled (rated at 2k pages) while the 3100 comes
with really full carts and only on the 3100 page do you see a
replacement pack of all 4 toners rated for 4k at $280 (opposed to the
3000 pack including half filled color toners for $220)

5 Amazing fact: In the Configuration settings for the 3100 you will
find a setting "Allow Non-Dell refilled toner carts". It's not clear
if the Dell carts have chips, but this setting leaves me
speachless...and clearly odds become very good that this printer can
be operated economically... being brand new nobody yet offers toner
for it, but with this feature the odds that someone will get very
good.

6. 64Meg , standard memory, will not allow for high definition 8x10
images. It uses PC133.. you get one socket.. but oddly it uses SO-DIMM
so you're unlikely to have old stuff lying around.. but at least it's
cheap. I added a 256 Meg stick.. 320 seems enough for anything so
far...

7. The 3100cn is a tank 17" x17" by almost 22" high, it weighs like 72
lbs. It's noisy, but not as noisy as the Minolta 2300 series. Print
speeds are faster than the Minolta on color, text is sharper, but I
use my b&w lasers for text. Photo reproduction, to my eye is sharper
and slightly more vibrant than the Minolta, but will probably
disappoint those who want very vibrant high gloss reproduction. For
reference I'm using Hammermill Ultra Premium Laser (24 lb. 106 Bright)
which is barely above matte and Hammermill Color Copy (28 lb. 98
Bright) which is "mildly glossy".

Overall I'm so far quite satisfied with the 3100cn.. hopefully the
above will help others decide if this printer is of interest to
them...


I have several friends who have the Konica/Minolta 2300 models. Output
quality of photos is comparable. The Minoltas as noisier, there is a
much longer turn on and "wake up from sleep mode" delay, the colors on
my Dell are a tad more vibrant.. text is distinctly clearer, which
confirms all the US and UK reviews of the Dell...

From what I can see Dell seems to have an exclusive on this model
outside of Asia... it wasn't easy finding anything about the
Fuji-Xerox model, even on their own site.

Note the Dell has parallel, usb 2.0 and ethernet built in also...

BTW I build all my own computers, this is the first Dell product I
have ever owned... not exactly a fan of them myself... but they seem
to have decided to be very aggressive in the printer market...and at
under $400 the 3100cn seemed to be the best value right now...and I'm
hopeful that Config setting means it will be the easiest color laser
to get inexpensive refill toners for...
 
I have the "photorealistic" 9600x600 KonicaMinolta 2350en. It does
produce good photo output on the recommended papers and is a very good
general purpose printer especially after adding the automatic duplexer
and more memory. However, printing on 8.5x11 paper all the time and
having to cut photos is (for me) a pain, plus yes this printer is very
noisy due to the 4 color rotating mechanism - but not too bad if not
used much and/or is in another room. I have some 8.5x11 framed
photo-art from this printer that looks great, and yes it is great to
use for proofs. There are a lot of color management options, and
saturation, etc, can be adjusted.

I have since added a Canon i9900 for photos which is true photo
quality and handles all types of paper sizes (I print on 5x7, 8.5x11
and 13x19) - plus it, so far, has not had any nozzle clogging problems
even after not using it for over 4 weeks ... in 6 months I have not
even needed to do any type of nozzle cleaning before printing photos.

I had also looked into solid ink printers, but I found reports that if
you don't continuously print with them the ink will tend to burn, turn
dark, and need to be cleaned out and replaced.
 
As good as color laser printers are getting, and they are improving all
the time, they still don't have the same control of the toners a inkjet
printers do of their inks.

Laser printers certainly have a lot going for them, speed - especially
when making multiple copies, print durability, (most color toners ar
very archival) cost or paper and colorants, etc. But they still don't
yet have the ability to quite meet better inkjet quality, and there is
still a problem with surface finish. Often more toner means glossier
surface, while paper surface is matte, making a differential. Or using
gloss paper in the laser, the toner is still too matte. It's a bit of a
catch 22. Inkjets can provide either glossy, luster or matte surfaces
that have much less surface variation as a result of the ink.

I think both technologies have their place.

Art
 
rl27 said:
Lasers won't print you photos. (in reasonable quality) You need an
inkjet, dye sub, or any of those dedicated photo printers using some
other technology.
Click to expand...

I don't care about perfect quality, if I want that I'll keep my ALPS which
does dye sub. My photos definitely aren't artistic quality, and my color
ink jet isn't exactly the best in photos now, but its good enough. The
sample pictures I have seen from the three laser printers I am considering,
look better those in the current model of my last two ink jets (Lexmark and
Epson). Of course I would expect the quality of a sample print to be
biased to make the printer look good.
 
rl27 said:
I don't care about perfect quality,
Click to expand...

I haven't seen the best lasers (w.r.t. photo printing) but what I've
seen so far shows that other printers do better photos. But if
a laser is good enough for you, then you need one.

Because of the very different printing technologies, I think lasers
are a lot less likely to specialize the way some inkjets and dyesubs
did, amd their main selling point will still be relatively high volume,
good and inexpensive printing. Even if they could be considered
the best for black text or business graphics, I don't see them
overtaking photo inkjets using 7 - 8 inks anytime soon.
.The sample pictures I have seen from the three laser printers
I am considering, look better those in the current model of my
last two ink jets (Lexmark and Epson). Of course I would
expect the quality of a sample print to be biased to make the
printer look good.
Click to expand...

Printing technology advances very fast, so even a couple of years
of difference is enough to bring in significant advancements, the
only question is whether you have use for those, or not.
 
Markeau said:
I have the "photorealistic" 9600x600 KonicaMinolta 2350en. It does produce
good photo output on the recommended papers and is a very good general
purpose printer especially after adding the automatic duplexer and more
memory. However, printing on 8.5x11 paper all the time and having to cut
photos is (for me) a pain, plus yes this printer is very noisy due to the 4
color rotating mechanism - but not too bad if not used much and/or is in
another room. I have some 8.5x11 framed photo-art from this printer that
looks great, and yes it is great to use for proofs. There are a lot of
color management options, and saturation, etc, can be adjusted.

I have since added a Canon i9900 for photos which is true photo quality
and handles all types of paper sizes (I print on 5x7, 8.5x11 and 13x19) -
plus it, so far, has not had any nozzle clogging problems even after not
using it for over 4 weeks ... in 6 months I have not even needed to do any
type of nozzle cleaning before printing photos.

I had also looked into solid ink printers, but I found reports that if you
don't continuously print with them the ink will tend to burn, turn dark,
and need to be cleaned out and replaced.
Click to expand...

Hi,
I'm looking for a good color laser as well. I just had a look at the Minolta
and the specs seem pretty good but I almost fainted when I checked out the
price of toners (375 Euro). A set of toners that can print 1500 pages costs
more or less same as a set of DELL toners which can print 4000 sheets.
That's what I call a daylight robbery. Is the print quality really that good
to justify the price difference. Has anyone compared the Dell and the
KonicaMinota 2350en? If yes what's the difference between the color prints.
Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Raphael
 
Hi,
I'm looking for a good color laser as well. I just had a look at the
Minolta and the specs seem pretty good but I almost fainted when I
checked out the price of toners (375 Euro). A set of toners that can
print 1500 pages costs more or less same as a set of DELL toners which
can print 4000 sheets. That's what I call a daylight robbery. Is the
print quality really that good to justify the price difference. Has
anyone compared the Dell and the KonicaMinota 2350en? If yes what's
the difference between the color prints. Thanks for your help.
Regards,
Raphael
Click to expand...

Thats the one thing that's got me thinking about delaying the purchase at
least a few months. I want to see if the printer companies wake up and
offer smaller color lasers, with 1500-2000 page capacities and halve or
quarter the price of the toners.

Cutting the toner cartridge size would definitely reduce some of the size,
but not all. The other thing is the weight. I definitely don't want to
have to lug 60 to 80 lbs up or down a flight of stairs.
 
rl27 said:
Thats the one thing that's got me thinking about delaying the purchase at
least a few months. I want to see if the printer companies wake up and
offer smaller color lasers, with 1500-2000 page capacities and halve or
quarter the price of the toners.

Cutting the toner cartridge size would definitely reduce some of the size,
but not all. The other thing is the weight. I definitely don't want to
have to lug 60 to 80 lbs up or down a flight of stairs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I hear you. I'm also thinking about buying one, but am kind of
skeptical about the quality, size and weight. The good news is that the
delivery guys will bring it to you, but I heard that they're really noisy
and their dimensions are HUGE!!!!! The toners in most of the cases are just
too expensive for what they deliver. The only printer on my mind at this
point it the dell color laser. The toners are good for 4000 pages and
they're cheaper than the ones from KonicaMinolta (which last only for 1500).
Dell also allows you to use non authorized toners what's really nice and can
cut down your printing costs drastically!. Unfortunately I live in Poland
now and they don't have the printers in their showroom so I have to wait for
them to send me some printouts from some other country and unfortunately it
seems that they're taking their sweet time (almost 2 weeks now or maybe they
just need to manufacture the paper from scratch :) ). Anyways I will give
you an update on quality of the printouts once I'll get them.

Raphael
 
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