Good All In One for a teacher

[Lou]

My DIL needs a printer. Will do mostly B&W but does need color.
Expects to do over 500 pages a month B&W plus a little color.
Does an HP 3210 or a similar cousin make sense? She is aware that
consumables can eat her up.
I know this is a common question but new stuff is coming out all the
time and this group has very knowledgeable folks.

TIA

Lou

 

[Ben]

My DIL needs a printer. Will do mostly B&W but does need color.
Expects to do over 500 pages a month B&W plus a little color.
Does an HP 3210 or a similar cousin make sense? She is aware that
consumables can eat her up.
I know this is a common question but new stuff is coming out all the
time and this group has very knowledgeable folks.

Its difficult for me to recommend an inkjet for that much B&W usage.
if she has the room, she might be better off buying a B&W laser and an
inkjet multifunction or a B&W multifunction and a color inkjet. Does
she need photo color or just basic color?

HP lists some inkjet cartridge life estimates on their website. If you
think their estimates are accurate, you can use them to estimate the 2
year supply cost of the printer (I usually assume 2 years for an inkjet
and 4 years for a laser). If you accept HP's estimates, the Photosmart
3210 is still proably the best bet. Their estimates are that the
Photosmart 3210's black ink will go 480 pages on one $18 cartridge (4
cents/page). Over two years @500pages/months, that's $432. Two year
total cost is then $712 (not counting tax, shipping, and/or trips to
the store).

On the other hand, HP's OfficeJet 9110's black ink is supposed to last
1750 pages and costs $34 (2 cents/page). Over two years
@500pages/month that's $272. However, that printer costs $600 so the
two year cost is then $872. Unless someone else is paying for the
printer and she's paying for the ink, the 3210 is still cheaper over 2
years.

Personally, I am a bit dubious of HP's numbers. Its probably draft
economode mode or something like that that nobody can read. Suppose
then that your DIL would consume ink at twice the rate/page that HP
projects (high quality mode, etc). Then the two year cost is the same
($1144). The balance would fully shift to the OfficeJet 9110 if HP's
numbers were off by more, she ended up printing more than 500
sheets/month, or she kept the printer more than 2 years.

If you think HP's numbers are off by a factor of three, then you really
should look at multifunction color lasers. I usually project B&W laser
supplies at around 2cents/page. Since these things start at around
$900 and go up, her two year cost is going to be about $1200. Maybe I
am too pessimistic on modern inkjets, but I think lasers last longer.
If so, then a multifunction color laser would easily beat any of the
multifunction color inkjets on a 4 or 5 year projection.

I'm actually not a big fan of HP's multifunctions so you should also
look at the Canon PIXMA line. I pointed my mother-in-law to the Canon
PIXMA MP780 and everyone seems to love it. You should probably do a
few cost projections of one of their current printers and compare it
with the HP. The hard part will be trying to figure out which company
is lying more about their inkjet life/supply costs.

YMMV

 

[JXStern]

My DIL needs a printer. Will do mostly B&W but does need color.
Expects to do over 500 pages a month B&W plus a little color.
Does an HP 3210 or a similar cousin make sense? She is aware that
consumables can eat her up.
I know this is a common question but new stuff is coming out all the
time and this group has very knowledgeable folks.

Just bought a new Canon PIXMA MP530, uses five cartridges (separate
black dye for pictures, double black pigment for text), $200 instead
of the MP830 for $300 that has a little LCD screen in case you want to
directly select and print from memory cards. 500 page/month, that's
125/week, that's 25/day, as long as "draft" quality is sufficient for
some or all of the output (it generally is for mine!), I'd say load
and cost per page should be fine.

The Canon line has good quality, reliability, software, and vendor ink
prices. It does spend a lot of ink cleaning heads, if you use it only
occassionally. I believe if it's used more extensively, it cleans
heads less?

Anyway, I hesitate to buy HP for software and support reasons, so
that's my two cents.

J.

 

[Bob Headrick]

Personally, I am a bit dubious of HP's numbers. Its probably draft
economode mode or something like that that nobody can read.

Your dubiousness is unfounded. No, the data shown is for normal mode,
not econofast. Econofast mode actually uses about half the ink and for
black text is generally not noticeably different to a casual observer.
See http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/us/en/index.html which has links
to how the page yields are measured.

As for the original poster, I have a Photosmart 2610, which could be an
ideal candidate but is no longer available. It uses the large capacity
black and color cartridges (96/97 in the US). The only current machines
that use these cartridges are the 7200/7300/7400 series all-in-ones, see
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/18972-238444-410635-12019-f51-391152.html
for the 7210 and
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF02a/18972-238444-410635.html?jumpid=re_R163/GW/color_MFP
for HP's general line of all-in-ones. I have used both the 7310 and
7410 extensively in the past and they are excellent units. The 7210 is
similar but does not have the color display that makes it easier for
standalone photo printing.

I do not have any experience with the color LaserJet based AOI units,
but you might also look at the 2800 series, see:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF25a/18972-238444-410635-12004-410635-445194.html

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

 

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

On the other hand, HP's OfficeJet 9110's black ink is supposed to last
1750 pages and costs $34 (2 cents/page).

I can't recommend that anyone purchase this particular all-in-one. I have
the 9130 model, and it's awful. It's a lousy fax machine, mediocre scanner
and a downright awful printer rolled into one. I haven't seen an inkjet that
has had banding in the printing unless the settings were incorrect...this
thing does on normal and best print quality settings.

The black cartridge that came with my OJ9130 was a "starter" cartridge and
not the bigger one you can buy. The colors appear to be fully filled,
however.

You will also find that this printer uses print heads that are separate from
the ink. These are priced about the same as an ink cartridge. Estimates say
you could get 11,000 pages out of them. My OfficeJet is reporting right now
(after about 1,500 pages) that the cyan and yellow heads are nearing
replacement time.

Given prior and excellent experiences with other OfficeJet models, I was
stunned that HP would actually market something this bad.

William

 

[Michael Johnson, PE]

My advice is to run, do not walk, to ebay and find a Canon M780 before
they are all gone. It uses the non-chipped BCI-6 cartridges that can be
bought from the compatible ink suppliers for as little as $1.70 per
cartridge. I have been using one of these units for over a year and
love it and have saved over a thousand dollars by using compatible ink
over the Canon branded cartridges. My printing costs per page are as
low as it would be with a laser printer.

 

[Ben]

Your dubiousness is unfounded. No, the data shown is for normal mode,
not econofast. Econofast mode actually uses about half the ink and for
black text is generally not noticeably different to a casual observer.
See http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/us/en/index.html which has links
to how the page yields are measured.

Hi Bob,
I don't think it ever hurts to be skeptical of a manufacturer's claims.
Especially when it comes to you and your money. In any case, my
original analysis was done using HP's numbers. As I said, if one
believes those, the Photosmart 3210 remains the least expensive choice
in terms of two-year costs.

Also, while I applaud HP's effort to standardize page yield, nothing on
the HP web page you reference mentions anything about the quality
setting. I have not tested the latest crop of inkjet printers, but
historically, I have been unhappy with the text/B&W print quality of
inkjets set for anything less than "highest" or "best" quality mode.
While certainly a completely different product line, I have found the
EconoMode on some HP's Laserjet printers to be unusable.

Another limitation of HP's test is that it tests for ink life operating
in continuous mode. This probably hurts HP relative to other
manufacturers since HP seems to have invested more effort in maximizing
the efficiency of their cartridge for the start-stop way that most
people use their inkjets. However, the real cartridge yield for a
typical owner will be less than estimated.

However, I am not trying to be negative on HP (at least in this area).
If HP's current printers are as cost-effective on a per-page basis as
my original calculations then I once again applaud their
accomplishments. 2cents/(B&W)page is a best-in-class result for a
consumer inkjet. Independently tested results are typically in the
2-7cents/page range and even HP will admit that some of their older
inkjets cost 8cents or more per page.

As for the original poster, I have a Photosmart 2610, which could be an
ideal candidate but is no longer available. It uses the large capacity
black and color cartridges (96/97 in the US). The only current machines
that use these cartridges are the 7200/7300/7400 series all-in-ones, see

Based on HP's numbers, these printers (with the HP 96 black) have about
the same cost per page as the Photosmart 3210 (HP 02 black). Since I
don't see the 72xx on HP's anymore and the 7310 costs more than the
Photosmart 3210, the original poster's first pick seems to remain the
best choice within the HP line for his stated purposes.

 

[measekite]

My advice is to run, do not walk, to ebay and find a Canon M780 before
they are all gone.

ebay is not the place to buy a printer.

It uses the non-chipped BCI-6 cartridges

the only advantage is they are $2.00 a cart cheaper but the ink on the
new ones have been improved.

that can be bought from the compatible ink suppliers for as little as
$1.70 per cartridge.

you never know what you are getting from a relabeler.

I have been using one of these units for over a year and love it and
have saved over a thousand dollars by using compatible ink over the
Canon branded cartridges.

first i do not believe that he saved over a $1,000. it does sound like
he has a large printload and maybe that is the reason he can claim not
having a clog but then there is the fading and lower pictorial quality.
for just business documents the quality may be ok.

 

[Gary Tait]

My advice is to run, do not walk, to ebay and find a Canon M780 before
they are all gone.

I'd get one of the newer AIOs with the 4200 engine, and CIS it.

 

[Gary Tait]

ebay is not the place to buy a printer.

Maybe not. I tend to get one in person, unless there is an oddball
printer you need.

the only advantage is they are $2.00 a cart cheaper but the ink on the
new ones have been improved.

For OEM carts. See below .

For aftermarket carts, perhaps lesser brands.

first i do not believe that he saved over a $1,000. it does sound like
he has a large printload and maybe that is the reason he can claim not
having a clog but then there is the fading and lower pictorial quality.
for just business documents the quality may be ok.

Depends. How over a year, and how much printing, and what type.

 

[Bob Headrick]

Based on HP's numbers, these printers (with the HP 96 black) have
about
the same cost per page as the Photosmart 3210 (HP 02 black). Since I
don't see the 72xx on HP's anymore and the 7310 costs more than the
Photosmart 3210, the original poster's first pick seems to remain the
best choice within the HP line for his stated purposes.

In the US the Officejet 7210 is available, and can be found at the link
in my previous post:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/en/WF05a/18972-238444-410635-12019-f51-391152.html

The original poster said they would print mostly black but needed color.
The Photosmart 3210 is really designed as a photo printer, it uses dye
based black and six inks. For use that is mostly black I think the 7210
would be a better choice. It uses pigmented black ink and generally
gives better black text quality. Additionally, the original poster said
it is for a teacher, and about 500 pages per month. I would expect that
this usage will fluctuate greatly during the year, with relative low
usage during the summer. The Photosmart 3210 has a permanent
non-replaceable printhead; I think the 7210 with its printhead included
with the ink cartridge would fit better for the stated usage. In the PS
3210, if a supply runs out of any ink it must be replaced before
printing. The 7210 can print with one or more ink supplies empty.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, Microsoft MVP Printing/Imaging

 

[Bob Headrick]

I don't think it ever hurts to be skeptical of a manufacturer's
claims.

It does hurt if you incorrectly infer that the manufacturer is trying to
pull a fast one or otherwise mislead consumers.

Especially when it comes to you and your money. In any case, my
original analysis was done using HP's numbers. As I said, if one
believes those, the Photosmart 3210 remains the least expensive choice
in terms of two-year costs.

Also, while I applaud HP's effort to standardize page yield, nothing
on
the HP web page you reference mentions anything about the quality
setting.

Hmm, that is correct. I know for a fact that the page yield tests are
conducted in normal mode, or specifically whatever the default driver
mode is. This is specified in the ISO standard AFAIK.

I have not tested the latest crop of inkjet printers, but
historically, I have been unhappy with the text/B&W print quality of
inkjets set for anything less than "highest" or "best" quality mode.

I do not know how old the printers you have tested are, but since about
the DeskJet 850 the HP DeskJet's draft mode has been pretty good for
plain paper text, and for most cases there is little difference in print
quality between normal and best mode for text. Different manufacturers
make different tradeoffs - I have seen printers that have very "drafty"
draft modes. [And BTW, the page yields are very nearly identical for
normal and best modes for most HP DeskJets.] Some of the recent
printers use underprinting in best mode, where black text is first
printed in color to provide "blacker" text. In these cases best mode
may look better for text. On the other hand, I stand by my original
assertion that draft is pretty acceptable for most users for normal
printing on any recent HP inkjet printer.

While certainly a completely different product line, I have found the
EconoMode on some HP's LaserJet printers to be unusable.

I don't know about that. My last LaserJet was the LaserJet 4 (after
owning the LaserJet, LaserJet+, LaserJet II and LaserJet III....) and I
have mostly used only inkjets in the last dozen years or so.

Another limitation of HP's test is that it tests for ink life
operating
in continuous mode. This probably hurts HP relative to other
manufacturers since HP seems to have invested more effort in
maximizing
the efficiency of their cartridge for the start-stop way that most
people use their inkjets. However, the real cartridge yield for a
typical owner will be less than estimated.

Maybe less, maybe more. A foam based ink system will generally deliver
slightly more ink if given some time to rest between printing near end
of life. There is probably some optimum print rate for page yield, it
is likely not continuous printing.
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/articles/us/en/EfficiencyArticle.html
has some graphs near the middle of the page that show the differences
between continuous and "user rate" printing.

In the development of the ISO standard there were those that wanted to
make the testing based on continuous printing and those that favored a
user rate test, or at least both tests. The problem with the user rate
test is that it can take several months to run a single set of
cartridges, compared to one day or less for a continuous test. This
argument (and perhaps the competitive disadvantage....) kept this out of
the standard.

regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

 

[Michael Johnson, PE]

I'd get one of the newer AIOs with the 4200 engine, and CIS it.

That is an option but for a teacher this might not be practical or just
too complicated. Besides, at $1.70 a cartridge shipped to my door I
can't justify a CIS system for my needs. Also, for just 500 B&W pages a
month I don't think a CIS kit is justified. That volume would take 2-3
BCI-3e cartridges (depending on coverage) which is less than $5.00 per
month for me.

 

[Michael Johnson, PE]

Maybe not. I tend to get one in person, unless there is an oddball
printer you need.

I doubt there are any MP780s left in retail stores. ebay is about the
only place they can be found. I have bought over 130 items on ebay and
have had only one problem which was resolved to my satisfaction. The
key is to choose a Seller that has sold thousands of items and has a
favorable rating greater than 97-98 percent.

For OEM carts. See below .

The BIG ADVANTAGE is the MP780 uses non-chipped cartridges. This allows
the user to pay $1.70 per cartridge instead of $14 per cartridge or to
refill the CLI-8 ink tanks and live with the software warnings.

For aftermarket carts, perhaps lesser brands.

I don't have clogs and the quality of the ink I used gets me to within
95% of OEM quality. That 5% I miss out on is well worth saving $9 per
cartridge, IMO. I still used the original print head that came in the
box so I fail to see where my $1.70 cartridges have hurt me in any way
what-so-ever.

Depends. How over a year, and how much printing, and what type.

At savings of $9 per cartridge (the N2000 savings is $30-$40 per
cartridge) it doesn't take long to save $1,000. In our house we have a
Canon MP780, iP4000, i960, i9100 and an N2000. They are all use
compatible ink with no problems. Add them all together and we easily
save well over $1,000 per year in ink costs over buying OEM. Using
compatibles on the N2000 saves $120 on each full set of cartridges and I
go through 2-3 sets on it a year so on it alone I save about $360 annually.

 

[Ben]

I don't know about that. My last LaserJet was the LaserJet 4 (after
owning the LaserJet, LaserJet+, LaserJet II and LaserJet III....) and I
have mostly used only inkjets in the last dozen years or so.

I was a fan of the LJ4 at the time. I sensed a decline with the
LaserJet series after the 5 or 6 (once they started doing 2000, 2100,
etc). Unfortunately, most enterprises just default to HP without even
evaluating the alternatives.

Economode on my friend's LJ 1300 prints a light gray. Its useless.

Maybe less, maybe more. A foam based ink system will generally deliver
...
user rate test, or at least both tests. The problem with the user rate
test is that it can take several months to run a single set of
cartridges, compared to one day or less for a continuous test. This
argument (and perhaps the competitive disadvantage....) kept this out of
the standard.

I agree with the final decision but I think buyers should expect real
usage to cost slightly more. If two printers have the same estimated
total cost of ownership, I would go with the one with less expensive
inks.

I appreciate your expertise with regards to the HP OfficeJet 7210
versus the Photosmart 3200. I couldn't find it before, but for an
extra $20 it seems like a better value.

Regards,
Ben