Giant come back!

  • Thread starter Thread starter gunnar
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G

gunnar

How is it possible to mess up such an excellent program
as Giant?? Many bugs in MSAS. Tries to update 5729, it
installs over and over again. I use the latest version
614./ gunnar.
 
I got my hands on a trial of GIANT just after the
microsoft beta came out, while there are currently still
loads of false positives, it is nothing compared to how
many were in the final GIANT release, and that wasn't
even a beta. It's a good start for mircosoft removing as
many false detections as they have, but I am concerned
that many will slip by to the final release.
 
I'd rather have a false detection than no detection at all. At least you're
able to
'Always Ignore' any false detections.



Drew
 
Have you installed Microsoft Antispyware? Have you seen false positives
from it?

Using the product and reporting via Spynet and these groups is the best way
to make sure the product is solid going out of the gate.

--
 
Hi,

-----Original Message-----
You know why its messed up? Because its a beta.
Click to expand...

That is the statement of the year. So because it is beta
it is allowed to mess up your system. I think that MS must
change its schedule in bringing out new beta builds
otherwise no progress is made. See the messages after the
release of the new build. I would like to know how many
MS developers are involved in this project and how serious
they are taking their job. It seems that they have
problems in solving bugs which are old as the beginning
of the beta program.
 
Jan explained :
It seems that they have
problems in solving bugs which are old as the beginning
of the beta program.
Click to expand...

Well, MS have a new ghost called IE7 and an old one IE6 which probably
control
this timetable.................

:D
 
Jan said:
Hi,



That is the statement of the year. So because it is beta
it is allowed to mess up your system. I think that MS must
change its schedule in bringing out new beta builds
otherwise no progress is made. See the messages after the
release of the new build. I would like to know how many
MS developers are involved in this project and how serious
they are taking their job. It seems that they have
problems in solving bugs which are old as the beginning
of the beta program.
Click to expand...

I agree that excuses that we offer here, by and large, are lame. We're
volunteers here, with the exception of Steve Dodson, and occasionally
another Microsoft staff person--but they are bound by NDA's about what
information they can release. We can provide peer support, and lament along
with you about the difficulties of flying toasts, as well as the more
serious issues, but we can't change the way the beta is being conducted.

Rightly, I believe the focus is on production of beta2, and I've no argument
with that priority. The current code is quirky, but even given the traffic
that we see here--really has comparitvely few substantive issues--try
dividing the total number of messages in these groups, for example, by the
20 million plus download number, just as an extremely rough guestimate about
problem percentages--it comes out pretty small.

I'm not sure how many folks there are where this update issue has remained
unsolved over time, but very, very few, I believe. We're seeing a number of
examples of this behavior now, but I know that all the machines I have put
614 on have behaved properly so far, and I doubt that there is any blocking
issue--i.e. I think it is "sticky" rather than "broken."

Have I succeeded in fixing every such post here? Not at all--but I do think
they will take care of themselves over time with the help of other
volunteers here. That kind of issue is what these groups are for, and I
hope we can fill the need.
 
Jan;
Beta really says it all.
Perhaps Microsoft should do more or do it differently.
But that does not change the fact that it is Beta.

Beta by nature are risky and should never be installed unless the user is
willing to do what is necessary to resolve any issues including a Clean
Installation.
 
Hi Bill,

I know it is difficult to have everybody pleased and
i think that most problems are caused by systems that are
affected by trojans and other stuff before the MS
antispyware is installed. Therefor can MS change the
installation process by doing a prescan of a system and
then comes with an advise in which way the installation
can proceed. So fix problems first before an installation
can take place. The best way is to put tools inside the
beta package which can automatically fix the problems.
MS cannot hide itself behind the sentence that it is a
beta because it is now a public beta and normally a final
release should follow soon. In my opinion such a beta is
not capable to destroy a working win2k or XP system
otherwise the beta should not be given to the public.
Formerly i was tester for BBS programs and protocols i
had to deal with alpha, beta and gamma releases, those
tests were closed for the public and were installed on
test PC's because i know a crash could taken place.
I want to say that MS is full responsible for PUBLIC beta
releases. Such releases cannot be unstable and
experimenting with the source code is in this fase not
allowed anymore because you would create an unstable beta.
The only thing you can do is fixing bugs and come with a
final release.

with regards

Jan
 
-----Original Message-----
How is it possible to mess up such an excellent program
as Giant?? Many bugs in MSAS. Tries to update 5729, it
installs over and over again. I use the latest version
614./ gunnar.
.
Click to expand...

the bugs in MSAS have been inherit by Giant
 
The term "public beta" means nothing - EULA does. You are instructed to
read it before installing anything and if you do not agree, do not install.
You may have other ideas - express them if you must - but realise that any
problems that occur are based on YOUR decision, not on your opinion of how
MS should be conducting a beta program.

FYI:

MICROSOFT PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE LICENSE TERMS

MICROSOFT ANTI-SPYWARE BETA SOFTWARE

FOR MICROSOFT WINDOWS 2000, WINDOWS XP, AND WINDOWS SERVER 2003



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the software.

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Jan said:
Hi Bill,

I know it is difficult to have everybody pleased and
i think that most problems are caused by systems that are
affected by trojans and other stuff before the MS
antispyware is installed. Therefor can MS change the
installation process by doing a prescan of a system and
then comes with an advise in which way the installation
can proceed. So fix problems first before an installation
can take place. The best way is to put tools inside the
beta package which can automatically fix the problems.
MS cannot hide itself behind the sentence that it is a
beta because it is now a public beta and normally a final
release should follow soon. In my opinion such a beta is
not capable to destroy a working win2k or XP system
otherwise the beta should not be given to the public.
Formerly i was tester for BBS programs and protocols i
had to deal with alpha, beta and gamma releases, those
tests were closed for the public and were installed on
test PC's because i know a crash could taken place.
I want to say that MS is full responsible for PUBLIC beta
releases. Such releases cannot be unstable and
experimenting with the source code is in this fase not
allowed anymore because you would create an unstable beta.
The only thing you can do is fixing bugs and come with a
final release.

with regards

Jan
Click to expand...


I hear what you are saying about the nature of a public beta--and, indeed,
those expectations were ones I entered this process with, as well. However,
this beta is significantly different from any other I've taken part in--I've
mostly tested Windows OS releases.

In this case, the public beta is basically slightly modified third-party
code from a purchased product which Microsoft is planning to further
integrate into its own products.

The beta release, rather than providing a final testing ground for the bits
that will become the final product, is essentially a public service--it is
keeping the capabilities of the product available to the world, and getting
systems cleaned--and without a cost to the users.

The "further integration" stage (in my mind, at least--anybody who's
followed my musings will know that I clearly don't know any more than the
rest of you--and less than some!) is defined by beta2. This is painful--we
see a number of issues that cry out for fixing, but the choice is to fix
them or to work on beta2. So we await beta2 expecting that Microsoft will
have gotten the job done perfectly--but will they?

So--that's my view of what is happening, and I'd take it with a grain of
salt--I'm not noted for my insider knowledge nor great depth of insight,
particularly.

Yes, Microsoft Antispyware is unable to deal with some systems which are
already infected, and with some particular bugs which manage to lock it out.
The learning process involved in this kind of issue, and the cleaning and
Spynet data coming from this beta will definitely help make the eventual
final product stronger and more effective.

I believe that the final release will have some mechanism allowing for a
relatively safe and secure pre-scan and cleaning of an already infected
system--but I don't have a picture of what that will be.

I also agree with you that any public beta should be very stable, and not
destroy customer's systems or data.

The issues that I've seen that would fall into this category include the
loss of Kazaa data--this is extremely unfortunate--particularly in the cases
where quarantine is apparently successfully invoked, but the users have
found themselves unable to un-quarantine the files. The program has been
rev'ed to help alleviate this issue, and the release notes make clearer
statements about it with each release.

The other "destroy the machine" messages I see here are the occasional ones,
primarily Windows 2000 machines, I think, where the user installs Microsoft
Antispyware, removes spyware (often we must assume this--they just say "I
installed")--and suddenly finds the machine shutting down after a 60 second
countdown, or unable to boot to the OS--symptoms of a worm infection. These
are nasty, but the basic cause of the issue is the spyware/viruses/worms
involved, not necessarily Microsoft Antispyware itself in a direct way. I
don't know how much the improved LSP handling in build 614 will go towards
eliminating these instances--I'd love to not see another one.

So--there has been more data loss and general bad experience than I would
have expected from a public beta in this beta. I'll leave it to the folks
reading this to tell me whether we should blame this on Microsoft, for
releasing a tool to get the systems clean, or the underlying spyware/malware
which is the root cause--I can argue this both ways, and I won't waste your
time to read me talking to myself!
 
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