ghosting by TCP/IP

[sandy]

I have ghost 2003 and have made images of my desktop to both a secondary
internal drive and to DVD+R's. I would like to
do the same with my laptop using my linksys router (Wrt54g) but I get
completely flummoxed when trying to do this using ghost's user interface.
I've read the manual and I am still confused. I think that the biggest
problem is that my network adapter is not listed in the network driver
section and there are two types of drivers available (Packet and NDIS2, I
think the laptop uses a national semiconductor NDIS). If I understand this
right I need to get the network driver for my laptop ( I imagine wired or
wireless would work but I would use the wired one for speed and stability)
and establish a connection with my desktop to do the transfers. I would
likely make an image to the desktop HD and then burn that image over several
DVD's. I could probably get a firewire drive and do it this way but I would
prefer to try it with the equipment I have now. If anyone has any pointers
or could direct me to a good resource I would be most appreciative.

If anyone cares the specifics are

Desktop Laptop
PC CHIPS 810LMR presario 2100Z
integrated 100 Mbs Ethernet Integrated 100 MBs
ethernet
20+80 HDD 30 HDD


Thanks,


Sandy

 

[Will Dormann]

I have ghost 2003 and have made images of my desktop to both a secondary
internal drive and to DVD+R's. I would like to
do the same with my laptop using my linksys router (Wrt54g) but I get
completely flummoxed when trying to do this using ghost's user interface.

FWIW, Acronis True Image works perfectly for me, hassle-free. No need
to reboot (if you're in Windows); no need for picking out any drivers
(network, storage, or otherwise).


-WD

 

[Rod Speed]

I have ghost 2003 and have made images of my desktop to both
a secondary internal drive and to DVD+R's. I would like to do the
same with my laptop using my linksys router (Wrt54g) but I get
completely flummoxed when trying to do this using ghost's user interface.

I've read the manual and I am still confused.

Yeah, the crappy user interface and manuals are completely
hopeless in this area. Even the online 'support' is hopeless on that.

I think that the biggest problem is that my network
adapter is not listed in the network driver section

Yeah, its not too bad if it is listed there.

and there are two types of drivers available
(Packet and NDIS2, I think the laptop uses
a national semiconductor NDIS).

Thats the DRIVER, not the NIC itself.

If I understand this right I need to get the network driver for my laptop
Yes.

( I imagine wired or wireless would work but I
would use the wired one for speed and stability)

Yes, and ops arent that fast even with a 100Mb NIC.

and establish a connection with my desktop to do
the transfers. I would likely make an image to the
desktop HD and then burn that image over several DVD's.

Yes, thats the usual way to do it with a lan.

I could probably get a firewire drive and do it this way
but I would prefer to try it with the equipment I have now.

The main consideration is that it will be noticeably slower.

If anyone has any pointers or could direct me to
a good resource I would be most appreciative.

If anyone cares the specifics are

Desktop Laptop
PC CHIPS 810LMR presario 2100Z
integrated 100 Mbs Ethernet Integrated 100 MBs
ethernet
20+80 HDD 30 HDD

The best approach is to work out what NIC the laptop has.
If the manual doesnt say so explicitly, usually its simplest
to see what Win thinks it is in the Device Manager.

While in theory you can then get the appropriate driver
off the manufacturer's site, in practice its much easier
to get the driver off Bart's site once you know what the
NIC is, because the manufacturer's drivers are often
one hell of a mess and usually have a fancy installer etc.

If you get the appropriate driver off Bart's site,
http://www.nu2.nu/bootdisk/network/
you can just point the Ghost Boot Disk Builder at the
driver using the Add function and carry on regardless.
Basically just unzip the .cab, browse to the .DOS file,
in the Ghost Add function, look in the .ini files for the driver
name and manually include that in the drivername field.

You can also just cut to the chase and just use Bart's
boot disk and just run Ghost from that after its booted.

You can also just use the boot disk from
http://members.iinet.net.au/~bdriver/bootdisk/
Its much easier to setup than Bart's but
isnt as flexible in the NICs supported.
Fine when your NIC is supported tho
and you can just try it and see if it works.

 

[sandy]

interface.

Yeah, the crappy user interface and manuals are completely
hopeless in this area. Even the online 'support' is hopeless on that.

I'm glad that it's not just me

Yeah, its not too bad if it is listed there.


Thats the DRIVER, not the NIC itself.

Yeah I found out that the nic is a national seminconductor, at least
windows says it is. I went to the compaq web site and they have a new
driver for my laptop which they claim adds NDIS support(DP83815) which I
though would be just what I needed.

laptop

Yes, and ops arent that fast even with a 100Mb NIC.


Yes, thats the usual way to do it with a lan.


The main consideration is that it will be noticeably slower.

Speed vs cost. I may end up doing it for convienience but I would like to
do it over my lan at least as an academic excecise, even if I only do it
once to show that I can.

The best approach is to work out what NIC the laptop has.
If the manual doesnt say so explicitly, usually its simplest
to see what Win thinks it is in the Device Manager.

While in theory you can then get the appropriate driver
off the manufacturer's site, in practice its much easier
to get the driver off Bart's site once you know what the
NIC is, because the manufacturer's drivers are often
one hell of a mess and usually have a fancy installer etc.

This is absolutely the case for the compaq drivers which are huge, 5.7 Meg
and a pain to install although I did install it okay. Unfortunately when I
tried to get Ghost it to work with the new drivers (although they were not
..dos files) it simply did not. The lack of a floppy on my laptop makes it
even more difficult. I went through the whole peer-peer process, it said
that it was going to restart my computer and launch in dos, it did this just
fine. When offered the choices of continue with ghost or don't run ghost
and go back to windows it just froze when I chose option #2. After
restarting it said that the imaging was a failure so its back to square one.

If you get the appropriate driver off Bart's site,
http://www.nu2.nu/bootdisk/network/
you can just point the Ghost Boot Disk Builder at the
driver using the Add function and carry on regardless.
Basically just unzip the .cab, browse to the .DOS file,
in the Ghost Add function, look in the .ini files for the driver
name and manually include that in the drivername field.

You can also just cut to the chase and just use Bart's
boot disk and just run Ghost from that after its booted.

You can also just use the boot disk from
http://members.iinet.net.au/~bdriver/bootdisk/
Its much easier to setup than Bart's but
isnt as flexible in the NICs supported.
Fine when your NIC is supported tho
and you can just try it and see if it works.

Those sites look good although I only quickly paged through them. The
NDIS driver for my NIC is on the list so I will download it and give it a
whirl. I just wish that the user interface was clearer in to what exactly
is being done at each step. Thanks for your help so far, if I get it to
work by chance, and I can recognize what I actually did to get it to work
I'll post it if anyone is interested.


Sandy

 

[Rod Speed]

I'm glad that it's not just me

Yeah, I actually use it as an example of where DI is MUCH
easier to that with, particularly with an unsupported NIC.

Yeah I found out that the nic is a national seminconductor, at
least windows says it is. I went to the compaq web site and
they have a new driver for my laptop which they claim adds NDIS
support(DP83815) which I though would be just what I needed.

Yep, it is the file you need. The problem is that Ghost is very
strange about using those, particularly the ini files, claims files
that other systems like DI are happy to use arent usable.

It does have a mechanism for supplying the same info manually,
but thats a bit tricky unless you know what you are doing and
isnt worth the bother when the driver for that NIC from Bart's
site for that NIC usually does keep Ghost happy.

Speed vs cost.

Yeah, and the speed isnt necessarily any big deal if you are
going to set it up and do something else while it happens anyway.

You can always try the free route and
see what you think about the speed.

I may end up doing it for convienience but I would like
to do it over my lan at least as an academic excecise,
even if I only do it once to show that I can.

Yeah, its quite doable. The only real problem is the lousy user
interface and vitually non existent documentation on the detail,
particularly when the NIC isnt natively supported by Ghost.

This is absolutely the case for the compaq drivers which are huge, 5.7 Meg

Yeah, there's usually a diagnostic and installer in
the very large ones. And often drivers for all sorts
of obscure situations you arent even interested in.

and a pain to install although I did install it okay.

Its usually best not to install at all, just extract the 2 files you need
manually and then browse to them in the Ghost Add function.

Not always that trivial to identify the files you need
tho, you seen weirdly variable folder names used etc.

Unfortunately when I tried to get Ghost it to work with the new
drivers (although they were not .dos files) it simply did not.

Yeah, there's a surprising number of things you have to get
right quite apart from actually using the correct drivers.

Best to get that stuff right using a system with a natively
supported NIC and a floppy drive if you can and then move
on from that with the other NIC, first just ensuring that you
have got the correct drivers correctly installed in Ghost.

The lack of a floppy on my laptop makes it even more difficult.
Yeah.

I went through the whole peer-peer process,

Whoops, forgot to mention that. Thats NOT what you should
be using. Thats a completely different approach that uses
TCP/IP between to PCs to CLONE a drive between them.

You should be making the net boot disk. Different entirely
and the manuals and user interface doesnt make that clear.

it said that it was going to restart my computer and launch
in dos, it did this just fine. When offered the choices of
continue with ghost or don't run ghost and go back to
windows it just froze when I chose option #2.

Because it couldnt see ghost running on the other PC.

When you make a net boot disk, you'll see the various
components being run on DOS when it boots off the
floppy replacement and if you havent got the drivers
for the NIC installed properly, it will just howl about
not being able to see the NIC and the net.

After restarting it said that the imaging
was a failure so its back to square one.

Yeah, try the net boot disk instead.

Those sites look good although I only quickly paged through them.

Yeah, Bart's is a tad of a recipe book approach, looks
harder than it actually is if you follow the sequence.

The NDIS driver for my NIC is on the list
so I will download it and give it a whirl.

Presumably you mean Brad's. Yep, its
very easy to use and completely automatic.

I just wish that the user interface was clearer
in to what exactly is being done at each step.

Yeah, its a real problem.

Thanks for your help so far, if I get it to work by chance,
and I can recognize what I actually did to get it to work

Its all completely doable, just takes a bit of careful persistance.

 

[sandy]

Stuff deleted

Whoops, forgot to mention that. Thats NOT what you should
be using. Thats a completely different approach that uses
TCP/IP between to PCs to CLONE a drive between them.

When I go to "ghost utilities" and select " norton ghost boot wizard" i
get the options to make a standard
boot disk or a peer-peer Network Boot disk. Is the later only for cloning ?
Or can I make images using this
feature ?

You should be making the net boot disk. Different entirely
and the manuals and user interface doesnt make that clear.

I downloaded the .dos driver and made a bootable CD with the boot disk and
the drivers.
I started the laptop with it and it worked better than last time, Ghost
loaded and ran and then I could select the disk or
partition ( they are the same on my laptop) and then tried to select the
destination which were all local disks. There was a net option but it
wasn't the desktop so I didn't want to proceed any further. The funny thing
is that on my laptop there were two destinations that made no sense, disk A
and B which my laptop has neither

Because it couldnt see ghost running on the other PC.

I'm a little confused here, ghost has to be running on the desktop as
well ? ill I need to configure the NIC for both machines ?
This makes sense but I never thought of it. The desktop nic is a Sis 900
which is also not in the ghost list of supported nics.
How is the connection made ? Does running the boot disk from the laptop
establish a connection between the nic's which I then run ghost from the
desktop to ghost what would be like a networked drive ( in this case my
laptop). Or does the laptop load all of the ghost stuff as well as the
drivers for the nic and the imaging is from the dos on the laptop to the
networked drive ( this time on my desktop)?

When you make a net boot disk, you'll see the various
components being run on DOS when it boots off the
floppy replacement and if you havent got the drivers
for the NIC installed properly, it will just howl about
not being able to see the NIC and the net.

It says

DP83815 10/100 MacPhyter PCI adapter DOS NDIS 2.0.1 Driver version 1.16
(c) Copyright 2002-2003 National Seminconductor. All rights reserved.
*** Syntax error in PROTOCOL.INI -
*** Drivername 'DP83815$' Not found
Initialization failure
MS-DOS Lan Manager v2.1 Netbind
IBM Metbind Version 2.1
Error: 33 Unable to bind

Write oprotect error writing drive A
Abort, Retry, Fail

It then goes to the liscence agreement etc. So it looks like this is the
problem that it can't establish the connection on the link but the thing is
that the DP83815 driver ( in the form of a dos file) is in a folder called
"NET" so it is there. The protocol file is in the same folder as well so
I'mn kind of at a loss as to what to do. The fact that I'm going through a
router should not cause these problems should it ? I see mention of cross
over cables but no mention of routers.




ttp://www.nu2.nu/bootdisk/network/

Yeah, Bart's is a tad of a recipe book approach, looks
harder than it actually is if you follow the sequence.


Presumably you mean Brad's. Yep, its
very easy to use and completely automatic.


Yeah, its a real problem.


Its all completely doable, just takes a bit of careful persistance.

Thanks once again, I'm making incremental progress. I might just image
the laptops hd to a slew od CD-roms through the built in cd-writer, verify
that the image is intact and then throw caution to the wind.


Sandy

 

[Rod Speed]

When I go to "ghost utilities" and select " norton ghost boot wizard"
i get the options to make a standard boot disk or a peer-peer
Network Boot disk. Is the later only for cloning ?

Yes. You want the next entry down, Drive Mapping Boot Disk.
But, thats only necessary for a restore, not for image creation.

Or can I make images using this feature ?

Nope. Thats for cloning drives.

I downloaded the .dos driver and made a
bootable CD with the boot disk and the drivers.

I started the laptop with it and it worked better than last
time, Ghost loaded and ran and then I could select the
disk or partition ( they are the same on my laptop) and
then tried to select the destination which were all local disks.

Yeah, thats why you need what Ghost calls a drive mapping boot disk.
So you can see the external drive as a destination for the image file.

For image creation you first need to map a network drive
at the XP level before running Ghost at all. Then run Ghost
itself, and in the Advanced section, Mapped Network Drive
tab, select the NIC from the list, AFTER it has been Added
using the Drive Mapping Boot Disk ghost utility.

There was a net option but it wasn't the desktop so I didn't
want to proceed any further. The funny thing is that on my
laptop there were two destinations that made no sense,
disk A and B which my laptop has neither

I'm a little confused here, ghost has to be running on the desktop as well ?

Only for a drive CLONE. Not for ops with image files.

ill I need to configure the NIC for both machines ?

No, because you dont want to use the clone function.
You should be mapping a network drive.

This makes sense

It doesnt for anything except a clone op.

but I never thought of it. The desktop nic is a Sis 900
which is also not in the ghost list of supported nics.

Dont worry about it, you dont want to clone drives.

How is the connection made ?

Between the ghost running on each machine. But just for a clone op.

Does running the boot disk from the laptop establish a
connection between the nic's which I then run ghost from
the desktop to ghost what would be like a networked drive
( in this case my laptop).

Nope, you're confusing a clone op with image ops.

There is no networked drive with a clone op, just a drive
at each end of the tcp/ip connnection between them.

Or does the laptop load all of the ghost
stuff as well as the drivers for the nic

Yes, when doing a clone op, you have ghost
running on both PCs. No networked drive at all.

and the imaging is from the dos on the laptop to
the networked drive ( this time on my desktop)?

There is no imaging in this situation, just a cloning.

It says

DP83815 10/100 MacPhyter PCI adapter DOS NDIS 2.0.1 Driver version 1.16
(c) Copyright 2002-2003 National Seminconductor. All rights reserved.
*** Syntax error in PROTOCOL.INI -

Yeah, thats the problem, it doesnt like the ini file you have specified.

*** Drivername 'DP83815$' Not found

And thats the usual problem, if cant find the driver
name in the ini file, even tho Drive Image can.

Initialization failure
MS-DOS Lan Manager v2.1 Netbind
IBM Metbind Version 2.1
Error: 33 Unable to bind

Thats just saying it cant install the driver for the NIC.

If you want to persist with using the ghost boot disk
instead of Bart's or Brad's, you'll have to make the Add
NIC function in Ghost work. Its doable but you dont need
it at all if you use Bart's or Brad's network boot disk and
just run the DOS version of Ghost once thats booted.

While superficially that route isnt viable because you
dont have a floppy on the laptop, you can make a
bootable CD from the bootable floppy you make with
their systems and just boot the laptop from the bootable
CD to do the image file ops, creation or restore.

Write oprotect error writing drive A
Abort, Retry, Fail

Thats just because the drive doesnt actually
exist because the NIC driver didnt start.

It then goes to the liscence agreement etc. So it looks like this
is the problem that it can't establish the connection on the link

Cant even load the NIC driver. Basically because it
cant interpret the ini properly to get the driver name.

The ini file is a simple text file and you can manually
edit that to include the driver name so it can use it.

but the thing is that the DP83815 driver ( in the form
of a dos file) is in a folder called "NET" so it is there.

Yeah, the problem is that it cant interpret the ini file properly
and find the driver name, so it cant load the driver because it cant
turn the driver name in the ini file into the actual driver file name.

The protocol file is in the same folder as well
so I'mn kind of at a loss as to what to do.

Just use the driver and ini file from Bart's site for that particular NIC.

The fact that I'm going through a router
should not cause these problems should it ?

Nope, it hasnt even loaded the driver for the NIC yet,
so cant see anything past the NIC, outside the laptop.

I see mention of cross over cables

Yep, because that CLONE op uses a crossover cable between the two
PCs. The fine detail is irrelevant because you dont want to clone anyway.

but no mention of routers.

Those are only relevant to mapped network drives.

Thanks once again, I'm making incremental progress. I might just image
the laptops hd to a slew od CD-roms through the built in cd-writer, verify
that the image is intact and then throw caution to the wind.

Yeah, but you need to use the mapped network drive function.
You'll still need to fix the problem with the protocol.ini and the driver name.

 

[Michael Kimmer]

I have ghost 2003 and have made images of my desktop to both a
secondary internal drive and to DVD+R's. I would like to
do the same with my laptop using my linksys router (Wrt54g) but I get
completely flummoxed when trying to do this using ghost's user
interface. I've read the manual and I am still confused. I think
that the biggest problem is that my network adapter is not listed in
the network driver section and there are two types of drivers
available (Packet and NDIS2, I think the laptop uses a national
semiconductor NDIS). If I understand this right I need to get the
network driver for my laptop ( I imagine wired or wireless would work
but I would use the wired one for speed and stability) and establish
a connection with my desktop to do the transfers. I would likely
make an image to the desktop HD and then burn that image over several
DVD's. I could probably get a firewire drive and do it this way but
I would prefer to try it with the equipment I have now. If anyone
has any pointers or could direct me to a good resource I would be
most appreciative.

If anyone cares the specifics are

Desktop Laptop
PC CHIPS 810LMR presario 2100Z
integrated 100 Mbs Ethernet Integrated 100 MBs
ethernet
20+80 HDD 30 HDD


Thanks,


Sandy

Yeah After the merger with Powerquest they need to get rid of Ghost and
continue developing Drive Image and V2i Protector...

Mfg,

Michael Kimmer

 

[sandy]

Stuff deleted


Rod,
Thanks for your help. I never did get it to work and
installing the new ethernet drivers with NDIS support cause all kinds of
problems when I tried to connect to the lan at work so I rolled the drivers
back and got our network guys to reconfigure most of the settings in
ipconfig/all. You have been very helpful but I'm gonna try going with
firewire instead.


Sandy

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed <[email protected]> wrote

Stuff deleted

Rod,
Thanks for your help. I never did get it to work and installing
the new ethernet drivers with NDIS support cause all kinds of
problems when I tried to connect to the lan at work

Yeah, you're not supposed to INSTALL those at all.

You're supposed to just browse to where the are in
unzipped form on the drive in the Ghost Add NIC function.

so I rolled the drivers back and got our network
guys to reconfigure most of the settings in ipconfig/all.

You have been very helpful but I'm gonna try going with firewire instead.

Wota wimp |-)

 

[sandy]

Yeah, you're not supposed to INSTALL those at all.

What ? The drivers were simply an updated driver, it didn't say that it
was specific to peole trying to snooker their systems by treying to ghost
over tcp/ip so I installed it before adding it to the list in the add
drivers portion. It still worked over my ip settings to the point where the
lan at work was completely unacessible. I undertstand what you mean between
the installing the driver and adding it, I did both.

You're supposed to just browse to where the are in
unzipped form on the drive in the Ghost Add NIC function.

instead.

Wota wimp |-)

Really is drive image's ui that much better ? Basic ghosting seems
pretty easy but the stuff that I was trying to do was just frought with so
many problems and no real resources to see what is happenening at each step
which just led to confusion. I might have had a chance if I had a system
with a nic in the list that I could try first without worrying about it ( I
have an old p133 laptop somewhere). Nonetheless, firewire here I come.


Sandy

 

[Rod Speed]

What ?

ALL you need is the .dos and .ini files for DOS NDIS ops
by ghost in the virtual boot or the physical boot floppy etc.
There isnt any point in installing the drivers at all, ghost doesnt
even use them at that OS level, just need a DOS driver for the
NIC. And the .dos file may not have that extension, depends
on the way the NIC chipset manufacturer does things.

The drivers were simply an updated driver,

Yes, but you dont even need an update driver at that OS level at all.

it didn't say that it was specific to peole trying to snooker
their systems by treying to ghost over tcp/ip so I installed
it before adding it to the list in the add drivers portion.

There's ALWAYS some risk with installing anything and pointless
to take that risk at all when you dont even need the drivers installed
at the OS level, just those two files for ghost to use in the DOS boot.

Sure, sometimes it can be difficult to work out which files
they are from what the manufacturer distributes. Thats
why its better to use the .cab file from Bart's site for
the NIC. Basically he has sorted that crap out for you
and has homogenised the files into the .cab for each NIC.

It still worked over my ip settings to the point
where the lan at work was completely unacessible.

Yeah, thats the problem, the installer can molest some of the
other settings when it installs the drivers at the OS level. Since
you dont even want them installed at all, pointless risking that.

I undertstand what you mean between the
installing the driver and adding it, I did both.

I never said to install the driver at the OS level. In fact I said
it was better to use the .cab from Bart's site for the NIC.

Maybe I should have said that more bluntly, but you did say
that you planned to ghost the drive to CDs before trying it.
That would have allowed a graceful recovery when the
NIC driver install at the OS level molested your system.

Really is drive image's ui that much better ?

Yes, much easier to add a NIC that isnt natively supported,
BUT you still have the same problem actually finding the two
files it needs in what the NIC chipset manufacturer makes
available and you would have got the same result with
using its install at the OS level which wasnt necessary.

DI even has a list of NIC manufacturer's web sites
for use when the NIC isnt natively supported by DI.

BUT unless you are running XP or 2K, Drive Image is
hopeless with support for external firewire or USB drives.
Basically there isnt any unless you are running XP or 2K.

Basic ghosting seems pretty easy

Yes, tho its an absolutely classic example of a rather
poor user interface that can certainly be used to do
what you want to do, but which is far too often rather
obvious when you know what you are supposed to do,
but not much help at all when you dont. And they dont
even attempt to assist with the manual in many areas.

but the stuff that I was trying to do was
just frought with so many problems

Yes, if the NIC isnt natively supported, you really are on your own.

and no real resources to see what is happenening at each step

Thats not completely true. You'll find that if you do manage
to get the DOS driver for the NIC available to ghost, there
is a bit of diagnostic info available as it boots and loads the
driver and attempts to setup the mapped network drive.
Pretty cryptic and lacking in specifics, but better than nothing.

The trouble at this level is that its all gotta fit onto a 1.44MB floppy.

which just led to confusion. I might have had a chance if I
had a system with a nic in the list that I could try first without
worrying about it ( I have an old p133 laptop somewhere).

Its guaranteed to be doable, just rather time consuming.

Nonetheless, firewire here I come.

Wota wimp |-)

 

[icu]

Issue with Protocol.ini resolved.

I know this is late, but it may help someone else having the same issue with syntax error in protocol.ini file. I had this exact same issue and resolved it by modifying this file. I found that there was an entry "drivername=" with no entry after it except for a musical symbol on the last line. I deleted the symbol and modified the line to read "devicename = DP83815$. This simple modification allowed me to start a multicast session in ghost. Hope this can help somebody.