Games freezing = power/temp troubles?

[Mitchua]

About a month ago I started have my 3D games (Wolfenstein Enemy Territory)
start freezing up on me. Since then I've changed a bunch of hardware and it
still happens! I've pretty much ruled out software problems since I've
changed drivers, reinstalled games, everything! What's going on?

I have an AMD XP 1800+ (stock 1.533GHz) in a Asus A7V266-E mobo with 512MB
of RAM. Here's the 3 system configurations I continued to have the problem
with.

1) Radeon 7000, Vantec Aeroflow heatsink/fan, 1 case fan. Cpu temp
~49Celcius. This was the initial setup that worked no problem. Then the
freezing started. The game would freeze, then crash, and I'd be booted out
to WinXP. The screen would now be brighter than before until I rebooted.

2) Radeon 7000, Arctic-Cooling heatsink/fan, 2 case fans, Cpu temp ~50
Celcius. Still freezing then crashing.

3) Radeon 9600 Pro, Arctic-Cooling, 2 case fans, Cpu temp ~50 Celcius.
Freezes and stays frozen. Have to reset the system. I tried disconnecting
the case fans and it ran the game ok for 1 hour. After reloading it, the
crashing started again.

As you can see, things are just getting worse and worse. My cpu isn't
overclocked or anything. Could the problem be my power supply? I have a
350W generic. According the Asus probe it's putting out 12.767 V and my
Vcore is 1.84: both values are off spec. I know have 1 seagate 120GB HD, 1
DVDROM, 1 CDRW, 2 mini fans, 2 80mm fans, and the giant 80mm fan on the
heatsink. Is all that drawing too much power?

Thanks,
Mitchua

 

[JAD]

You never mentioned the most important things...

What is running in the Background? Cntrl Alt Del or Enditall.exe or just to see Wintop.exe

VIA chipset? 4in1's are done?

Some strange Bios video setting that doesn't agree with your hardware?

What about the 'infamous' virii or spyware(multiplayer) question?

Safe mode to check if there are duplicate hardware entries

What drivers are you using? Have you tried the originals?

What settings for GL and DX in display settings..in the game settings?

 

[AJ]

About a month ago I started have my 3D games (Wolfenstein Enemy Territory)
start freezing up on me. Since then I've changed a bunch of hardware and it
still happens! I've pretty much ruled out software problems since I've
changed drivers, reinstalled games, everything! What's going on?

I have an AMD XP 1800+ (stock 1.533GHz) in a Asus A7V266-E mobo with 512MB
of RAM. Here's the 3 system configurations I continued to have the problem
with.

1) Radeon 7000, Vantec Aeroflow heatsink/fan, 1 case fan. Cpu temp
~49Celcius. This was the initial setup that worked no problem. Then the
freezing started. The game would freeze, then crash, and I'd be booted out
to WinXP. The screen would now be brighter than before until I rebooted.

2) Radeon 7000, Arctic-Cooling heatsink/fan, 2 case fans, Cpu temp ~50
Celcius. Still freezing then crashing.

3) Radeon 9600 Pro, Arctic-Cooling, 2 case fans, Cpu temp ~50 Celcius.
Freezes and stays frozen. Have to reset the system. I tried disconnecting
the case fans and it ran the game ok for 1 hour. After reloading it, the
crashing started again.

As you can see, things are just getting worse and worse. My cpu isn't
overclocked or anything. Could the problem be my power supply? I have a
350W generic. According the Asus probe it's putting out 12.767 V and my
Vcore is 1.84: both values are off spec. I know have 1 seagate 120GB HD, 1
DVDROM, 1 CDRW, 2 mini fans, 2 80mm fans, and the giant 80mm fan on the
heatsink. Is all that drawing too much power?

Thanks,
Mitchua

I have an A7V133 and sometimes removing a stick of RAM solves that
type of trouble. The board is RAM picky. Even though Crucial has been
fine for me some have had trouble like you describe. I don't know why
but on two different ASUS boards dropping the FSB 2 or 3 points can
solve similar problems. If everything runs fine with the side of the
case off then heat would seem to be an issue. Of 10 PS I have only one
gave a problem. It was a $30 400W new one. The PC shut down every 6-8
hours. Swapped in a 200W used PS and the 3200+ PC runs perfect now.

 

[JAD]

<The screen would now be brighter than before until I rebooted.>

Adobe Gamma Loader in start up?

 

[Mitchua]

You never mentioned the most important things...

What is running in the Background? Cntrl Alt Del or Enditall.exe or just

to see Wintop.exe
I run the games right after a reboot so nothing "extravagant" is running

VIA chipset? 4in1's are done?

Via chipset.

Some strange Bios video setting that doesn't agree with your hardware?

Haven't done anything to the BIOS except changing the CPU speed and Graphic
Aperature Size to 128. Same settings as when it was working fine.

What about the 'infamous' virii or spyware(multiplayer) question?

No spyware running on my PC. I run adaware and Spybot S&D

Safe mode to check if there are duplicate hardware entries No duplicates.

What drivers are you using? Have you tried the originals?

Tried the boxed drivers and the newest off ATI's website.

What settings for GL and DX in display settings..in the game settings?

Same GL and DX settings as when it was running fine. I've tried all
different levels of in game detail. Doesn't seem to make a difference.

Thanks for your input,
Mitchua

 

[Mitchua]

I have an A7V133 and sometimes removing a stick of RAM solves that
type of trouble. The board is RAM picky.

I'm using the same RAM as when everything was working fine.

Even though Crucial has been
fine for me some have had trouble like you describe. I don't know why
but on two different ASUS boards dropping the FSB 2 or 3 points can
solve similar problems.

I did experiment with upping the FSB to overclock my CPU a bit and it
immediately crashed in the game so you might be onto something with the FSB.
I just checked my CPUINFO program and my cpu is running at 1546Mhz, a little
higher than 1533. Might be because the core voltage is running at 1.84V
despite being set at 1.75V in the BIOS. Maybe my slightly overclocked CPU
is causing the problem. I'll experiment with bringing it down to 1533Mhz
tomorrow and repost.

If everything runs fine with the side of the
case off then heat would seem to be an issue.

Doesn't seem to make any difference.

Of 10 PS I have only one
gave a problem. It was a $30 400W new one. The PC shut down every 6-8
hours. Swapped in a 200W used PS and the 3200+ PC runs perfect now.

I fine these generic power supplies only last about a year but this one is
only 3 months old.

Thanks a lot for your input. I'll check out that FSB problem...
Mitchua

 

[JAD]

the DX GL settings are set for performance?
Via chipset -did you do the 4in1 updates? This has been the fix for many folks.

By the way, if your troubleshooting, as you are, then I agree with you that it is a good thing to START at the way things were. But
after a fashion you need to work back a few steps, so for the sake of finding out the answer try and forget about the way things
were.

 

[Mitchua]

<The screen would now be brighter than before until I rebooted.>

Adobe Gamma Loader in start up?

Maybe that was the problem. Anyhow, I don't have that prob with the Radeon
9600 pro since it freezes and doesn't crash out.

Thanks,
Mitchua

 

[Mitchua]

the DX GL settings are set for performance?
Via chipset -did you do the 4in1 updates? This has been the fix for many

folks.
Just what Windows Update does.

By the way, if your troubleshooting, as you are, then I agree with you

that it is a good thing to START at the way things were. But

after a fashion you need to work back a few steps, so for the sake of

finding out the answer try and forget about the way things

were.

I agree. No way I'm going back to the Radeon 7000 Just wanted to trace
the history of the problem.

Check out my reply to AJ's post. Maybe there's a problem with my FSB. My
CPU is overclocked slightly which it shouldn't be.

--Mitchua

 

[Mitchua]

I just pulled up an old snapshot I took of my CPU speed. It was running at
1546MHz a year ago too. Guess that's not a new development. Might still be
the problem though. I'll test tomorrow.

--Mitchua

 

[JAD]

go to the motherboards web site and look at the updates, if your only doing updates from MS you are problably doing more harm than
good (in as far as drivers are concerned)

 

[kony]

About a month ago I started have my 3D games (Wolfenstein Enemy Territory)
start freezing up on me. Since then I've changed a bunch of hardware and it
still happens! I've pretty much ruled out software problems since I've
changed drivers, reinstalled games, everything! What's going on?

I have an AMD XP 1800+ (stock 1.533GHz) in a Asus A7V266-E mobo with 512MB
of RAM. Here's the 3 system configurations I continued to have the problem
with.

1) Radeon 7000, Vantec Aeroflow heatsink/fan, 1 case fan. Cpu temp
~49Celcius. This was the initial setup that worked no problem. Then the
freezing started. The game would freeze, then crash, and I'd be booted out
to WinXP. The screen would now be brighter than before until I rebooted.

2) Radeon 7000, Arctic-Cooling heatsink/fan, 2 case fans, Cpu temp ~50
Celcius. Still freezing then crashing.

3) Radeon 9600 Pro, Arctic-Cooling, 2 case fans, Cpu temp ~50 Celcius.
Freezes and stays frozen. Have to reset the system. I tried disconnecting
the case fans and it ran the game ok for 1 hour. After reloading it, the
crashing started again.

As you can see, things are just getting worse and worse. My cpu isn't
overclocked or anything. Could the problem be my power supply? I have a
350W generic. According the Asus probe it's putting out 12.767 V and my
Vcore is 1.84: both values are off spec. I know have 1 seagate 120GB HD, 1
DVDROM, 1 CDRW, 2 mini fans, 2 80mm fans, and the giant 80mm fan on the
heatsink. Is all that drawing too much power?

Thanks,
Mitchua

It could definitely be your power supply, and the fact that it's
raising the 12V rail up to 12.8V in an attempt to keep the 5 or 3V
rail high enough is another sign of that.

Your system isn't using 350W, but the generic power supply probably
can't deliver 350W, probably not even 300W as cleanly as a decent
name-brand.

Is the CPU a Palomino? If so then the 1.84V vcore sounds reasonable
but if this is a Thoroughbred running at 1.84V and you have the
motherboard set to default (which should be 1.5 or maybe 1.6V) then
I'd be wondering about the motherboard too, but still it's likely the
power supply needs replaced so that's what I would focus on first.


Dave

 

[Ancra]

Maybe that was the problem. Anyhow, I don't have that prob with the Radeon
9600 pro since it freezes and doesn't crash out.

I think you should at least try reducing agp aperture. It's quickly
done.
I've seen a bunch of tests on this,(not exatcly yesterday though) and
there is absolutely no advantage at all in running a large aperture.
There is such a thing as too large aperture.

JAD has stubbornly been poking you about new 4in1 VIA drivers, and I
agree wholeheartedly. - Pay some attention to this.

I didn't catch your OS?


ancra

 

[Mitchua]

It could definitely be your power supply, and the fact that it's
raising the 12V rail up to 12.8V in an attempt to keep the 5 or 3V
rail high enough is another sign of that.

Your system isn't using 350W, but the generic power supply probably
can't deliver 350W, probably not even 300W as cleanly as a decent
name-brand.

I want to buy a quiet power supply in the next little while so I'm glad a
300W will run all those fans

Is the CPU a Palomino?

It is a Palomino.

If so then the 1.84V vcore sounds reasonable
but if this is a Thoroughbred running at 1.84V and you have the
motherboard set to default (which should be 1.5 or maybe 1.6V) then
I'd be wondering about the motherboard too, but still it's likely the
power supply needs replaced so that's what I would focus on first.

Thanks for your help Dave!

Mitchua

 

[Mitchua]

I think you should at least try reducing agp aperture. It's quickly
done.

I didn't realize that a higher aperature would be worse> I'll lower it to 64
again.

I've seen a bunch of tests on this,(not exatcly yesterday though) and
there is absolutely no advantage at all in running a large aperture.
There is such a thing as too large aperture.

JAD has stubbornly been poking you about new 4in1 VIA drivers, and I
agree wholeheartedly. - Pay some attention to this.

I'll go download them now.

I didn't catch your OS?

Windows XP.

Thanks ancra!

Mitchua

 

[Mitchua]

I didn't realize that a higher aperature would be worse> I'll lower it to 64
I'll go download them now.


Windows XP.

I installed the newest 4in1 drivers (VIA_Hyperion 4IN1_V449vp2) and
installed the newest ATI drivers. Still having the same crashes. I even
tried lowering the FSB and running with all the case fans disconnected (the
side off) and it still crashes. Any other ideas?

--Mitchua

 

[kony]

I want to buy a quiet power supply in the next little while so I'm glad a
300W will run all those fans

Since your system uses 5V power supply rail for CPU power, you have
quite a bit of 12V capacity in reserve... it is very rare for fans to
be overwhelming to a power supply, they just don't use that much power
and the 12V rail is more tolerant of voltage drop than 5V or 3V.

Since you have the Palomino and Radeon 9600, you might consider buying
towards the future, as large a power supply as the budget will allow
within reason. Although most name-brand 300W should work on your
system a 350+W might be a better choice.

However, it was just speculation about the power supply, voltage
readings with a voltage meter/multimeter should be taken but even then
sometimes it's more difficult to observe the condition crashing the
system. The substitution of another known good power supply can be
used to compare.


Dave

 

[Mitchua]

Since your system uses 5V power supply rail for CPU power, you have
quite a bit of 12V capacity in reserve... it is very rare for fans to
be overwhelming to a power supply, they just don't use that much power
and the 12V rail is more tolerant of voltage drop than 5V or 3V.

Since you have the Palomino and Radeon 9600, you might consider buying
towards the future, as large a power supply as the budget will allow
within reason. Although most name-brand 300W should work on your
system a 350+W might be a better choice.

However, it was just speculation about the power supply, voltage
readings with a voltage meter/multimeter should be taken but even then
sometimes it's more difficult to observe the condition crashing the
system. The substitution of another known good power supply can be
used to compare.


Dave

Thanks for the insight, Dave. I'm in the market for a quiet PS (like the
Antec or Vantec ones) so I'll probably end up with a good one eventually

--Mitchua

 

[Ancra]

I didn't realize that a higher aperature would be worse> I'll lower it to 64
again.

This was just something I figured should be ruled out. 128 should be
ok. Higher aperture won't be "worse", until it's too large . But it
won't be any advantage either. It's like a window. (and what is too
small or too large seem to be hard to nail down.) I use 64, because I
believe that's pretty safe for now.

Sorry, I'm out of other ideas. :-(


ancra

 

[Mitchua]

This was just something I figured should be ruled out. 128 should be
ok. Higher aperture won't be "worse", until it's too large . But it
won't be any advantage either. It's like a window. (and what is too
small or too large seem to be hard to nail down.) I use 64, because I
believe that's pretty safe for now.

Sorry, I'm out of other ideas. :-(


ancra

Time to sell this computer for a P4 system