Free Agent: Ubuntu Linux, Free and Fabulous - 04/27/2005

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Ablang

April 27th, 2005

Free Agent: Ubuntu Linux, Free and Fabulous

Editorial Applications Devel. Mgr. Matthew Newton

I'm going to just come right out and say it: I absolutely adore Ubuntu
Linux 5.04 (the "Hoary Hedgehog" release, often referred to as
"Hoary"). I'm now running Ubuntu on both my laptop and my desktop PCs,
and I don't think I've ever been such a happy Linux user.

There's so much to like about Ubuntu, it's hard to know where to
begin. Before I even get to the product itself, Ubuntu's genesis is
worth a note. Work on the distribution is funded by Canonical, a
company set up by South African gazillionaire Mark Shuttleworth.
Perhaps you've heard of him: He cashed out big-time when he sold his
security firm, Thawte, to VeriSign, and later became the second
fabulously rich guy to literally buy his way into orbit. Now he's
putting his money behind Linux with an eye toward increasing the flow
of Free Software to all corners of the planet.

And I do mean all corners of the planet: Ubuntu's Philosophy page
lists this goal: "Every computer user should be able to use their
software in the language of their choice." Couple that with other
ideals like "Every computer user should be given every opportunity to
use software, even if they work under a disability," and "Every
computer user should have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study,
share, change and improve their software for any purpose, without
paying licensing fees," and you see very quickly that the folks behind
Ubuntu are interested in something more than selling you a box with
some discs in it. In fact, Canonical will send you an Ubuntu disc in
the mail, completely free of charge, if you'd prefer not to download
the distribution yourself:
http://pcwnl.pcworld.com/t/427383/15377829/971101/0/

What You Get For Free

Ubuntu's installer is not going to win any beauty contests: It runs in
text mode and completely ignores your mouse. It is also not the "fire
it up and watch it go" experience you get with newbie-friendly
commercial Linux distributions such as Xandros or Linspire. BTW, I
talked about Xandros in my January "Free Agent":
http://pcwnl.pcworld.com/t/427383/15377829/971102/0/

I've been through several Ubuntu installations now, and find that I
usually have to answer somewhere around a dozen questions before the
installer kicks into autopilot and does its thing. None of these are
the sort of questions that used to make Linux installs a nightmare:
You won't need to know the timings of your video card, for instance.
If you're setting up a dual-booting machine, you will need some basic
knowledge of partitioning, and Ubuntu can help you shrink a Windows
partition to make room on your drive. Once the installer is finished
interacting with you, it starts copying files to disk, rebooting once
in the process. Then you'll see your new Ubuntu log-in screen.

Once you log in, you're presented with a very clean Gnome 2.10
desktop. By default, all system icons like Computer and Home live in a
Places menu at the top of the screen, leaving the desktop itself
empty. Even the Trash is not on the desktop--instead it's an applet on
the Gnome panel. I think this approach is mindful of the way most
users use their desktop: as a place to stash work-in-progress. It's
wise, then, to clear the desktop so the only items on it are files and
folders that users put there. Here's a screen shot of the default
desktop:
http://pcwnl.pcworld.com/t/427383/15377829/971103/0/

Ubuntu's Applications menu (Windows users, think "Start menu") is very
well organized--which is good, because there's no built-in way to edit
the menu. This turns out to be a limitation of Gnome 2.10, and a lot
of users aren't happy about it. I don't understand the gripes myself,
but that's because I always put launcher buttons for the apps I use
most frequently right onto my panel. If you prefer to launch your apps
by pulling down a menu and looking through submenus, do yourself a
favor and download the nascent Menu Editor application, which lets you
set things up just the way you like:
http://pcwnl.pcworld.com/t/427383/15377829/971104/0/

An Entire World of Free Software

Ubuntu is based on Debian, the grandpappy of noncommercial Linuxes,
and thus inherits Debian's best-of-breed package management system,
Apt. You can deal with Apt via the command line or the powerful
point-and-click Synaptic interface. The amount of software available
is staggering. We're talking about more than 16,000 different
packages, once you've enabled all the official repositories. Granted,
a lot of these packages are extremely esoteric; for example, I was
thrilled to find the latest version of Trn, a venerable Usenet reader
that Perl creator Larry Wall first brought to life more than two
decades ago. Others are simply fantastic apps that are not installed
by default. If you're a software junkie, you'll have a blast browsing
through the listings in Synaptic and trying out apps left and right.

To access these goodies, follow the instructions at Ubuntuguide.org
for adding the "universe" and "multiverse" repositories to your Apt
setup. Also, on this page you can find instrux for downloading the
items I mention in the next couple of paragraphs (unless I indicate
otherwise):
http://pcwnl.pcworld.com/t/427383/15377829/971105/0/

If you like, this is the time to pull down several non-Free packages
that may make your computing life better. "Non-Free" doesn't mean you
have to pay for them; it just means that they do not meet the
requirements to be classified as Free Software:
http://pcwnl.pcworld.com/t/427383/15377829/239102/0/

You'll likely want DVD and MP3 support, drivers for the 3D side of
your ATI or Nvidia video card, and Flash and Java plug-ins for your
Web-surfing pleasure. You can also download support for Windows Media,
RealNetworks, and QuickTime video formats, and even set up a package
called Mozplugger that lets you play these video formats right in your
browser, just like all your Windows and Mac-using friends do:
http://pcwnl.pcworld.com/t/427383/15377829/971106/0/

We Linux users don't have to take a back seat in these matters
anymore!

For MP3 support, go to:
http://pcwnl.pcworld.com/t/427383/15377829/971107/0/

I recently reviewed Linspire Five-0:
http://pcwnl.pcworld.com/t/427383/15377829/971108/0/

Linspire founder Michael Robertson wrote in, pointing me to Linspire's
file compatibility page, and challenging me to find another version of
Linux that can interact with all the formats linked to on that page:
http://pcwnl.pcworld.com/t/427383/15377829/971109/0/

Robertson's point is well taken: To my knowledge, his is the only
Linux distribution that speaks all those tongues right out of the box.
But with an hour's work with Apt on an Ubuntu system, you can match
Linspire's wide-ranging file type support--and you won't be stuck on a
for-pay upgrade treadmill, either. In fact, when the next Ubuntu
release ("Breezy Badger") comes out in six months' time, upgrading to
it should be as painless as feeding new repositories to Apt and then
typing sudo apt-get dist-upgrade in a terminal window. The system will
then upgrade itself over the Internet. I can't wait.

You Know What They Say About Every Rose...

It's hard to come up with a list of gripes about Hoary. The annoyances
are mostly minor--there's no pretty startup screen at boot time, for
instance. The only glaring blemish is an unfortunate decision to
change the default behavior of Nautilus, the Gnome file manager.

I've mentioned several times in this space that beginning with Gnome
2.6, Nautilus has had two modes of operation. One, the "File Browser"
mode, is like Windows Explorer, with a two-pane display (folder tree
on the left, folder contents on the right). Then there's the "Spatial"
mode, which is what you get when you double-click a folder on your
desktop. In Spatial mode, Nautilus behaves very much like the Finder
in older versions of the Mac OS: A new window opens for every folder
you access.

A lot of people think that this is a bogus way to operate. Just one of
their complaints is that if you're drilling down to a buried
subfolder, you end up with a screen full of windows in no time at all.
Never mind the fact there's an easy way around this (the
double-middle-click):
http://pcwnl.pcworld.com/t/427383/15377829/971110/0/

Mark Shuttleworth decided, apparently by fiat, that there's a better
way, and he had his coders implement it right before the Hoary
release: Double-clicking a folder in Ubuntu not only opens the new
folder, but also closes the previous folder window.:
http://pcwnl.pcworld.com/t/427383/15377829/971111/0/

That does solve the glut-of-folder-windows problem, but there are a
lot of reasons to dislike this new behavior. Just one example: Imagine
you're navigating to a folder four levels deep in order to grab a file
there and move it up to a folder only one level deep. When you arrive
at your destination and find your file, its new home has disappeared;
it got closed as you clicked your way down through your folders. Yes,
in "Ubuntu Spatial" mode, a double-middle-click gives you what a
double-click used to: It will open a new folder without killing the
previous folder window.

I'm so used to the "normal" Spatial mode that I've re-enabled it on my
Ubuntu machines. That's relatively easy to do via a hack in GConf
(Gnome's somewhat Registry-like settings storehouse)--but before
making such a big change in Nautilus, the Ubuntu gang should have
provided a simple toggle for this new behavior in Nautilus's
Preferences dialog.

Ubuntu Spatial mode is the only serious bummer I've found in Hoary. In
all other respects, I've now got two Linux machines that are purring
along and doing exactly what they should without throwing me any
curveballs. Everything just works, and that's the way I like it. My
hat is off to the Ubuntu folks, not only for the fine work they've
done but for the way they offer it--Freely--to the world.

If you'd like to give Ubuntu a test drive before you install it, you
can download a "Live CD" version:
http://pcwnl.pcworld.com/t/427383/15377829/971112/0/

This is a self-booting CD-based version of Hoary that should give you
a pretty good idea of what you'll end up with if you go ahead with a
full installation. If you decide to bring the Hoary Hedgehog into your
life, drop me a line and let me know what you think:
(e-mail address removed)

I'll be back next month with a look at some of the amazing (and
amazingly friendly) applications I've discovered in the Ubuntu
repositories--applications that will, of course, work on whatever
Linux distro works best for you. Until then, be as Free as you can.

Have a question or comment? Write to Matthew Newton:
freeagent at pcworld.com

Read Matthew Newton's regularly published "Free Agent" columns:
http://pcwnl.pcworld.com/t/427383/15377829/239109/0/


===
"Until last October, Christ had a very limited involvement in my life. I believed in God; I just never had to prove I believed. Belief is an absence of proof."
-- Boston Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling
 
Ablang said:
April 27th, 2005

Free Agent: Ubuntu Linux, Free and Fabulous

Editorial Applications Devel. Mgr. Matthew Newton

Dare I say it, but we could be reaching a stage where Linux's hardware
detection is even better than Windows. On Windows XP I have to install
an ethernet driver and video adapter. Ubuntu installs it all
automagically for me. It is also the first distribution that installed
Grub without corrupting my XP partition.

Ubuntu uses dynamic IP at installation, but you can set it to a static
address from a Gnome menu.

I'm not sure what the modem situation is - I assume that it is on par
with most Linux distributions - i.e. something of a washout.
 
"Until last October, Christ had a very limited involvement in my life. I believed in God; I just never had to prove I believed. Belief is an absence of proof."
-- Boston Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling

Once again Schilling has shown that he is perfectly willing to open
his mouth and say something without being inconvenienced by the facts.
In this instance he confuses "belief" with "faith". I *believe* in
many things *because* they have been proven. For instance, I believe
that infection is caused, not by evil spirits, but by micro-organisms
that cannot be seen with the naked eye. Faith, on the other hand, is
belief in something in the absence of proof.
 
Ablang said:
April 27th, 2005

Free Agent: Ubuntu Linux, Free and Fabulous

Editorial Applications Devel. Mgr. Matthew Newton

Thanks for the heads-up Ablang. I'll be investigating whether this'll
work for my ppc-based NAS (Linkstation).

good show!

-Sparky
 
I wonder with Ubuntu do they have Speakup which is a linux screen reader
included with it? Or do they have Brltty which is a braille display
driver for text applications? The last thing does Ubuntu have a way to
go straight to a text console instead of going right in to Gnome?
 
| I wonder with Ubuntu do they have Speakup
| which is a linux screen reader included with it?
|
| Or do they have Brltty which is a braille display
| driver for text applications?
|
| The last thing does Ubuntu have a way to go straight
| to a text console instead of going right in to Gnome?

To check the availability of these packages
under Ubuntu you might try the following
commands from a Konsole shell window ....

# apt-cache show kernel-patch-speakup

# apt-cache show brltty

Both packages are available for Debian Linux
and since Ubuntu is Debian-based, they may
also be available for Ubuntu ....

Booting straight to a text console should be OK ....
 
Cousin said:
| I wonder with Ubuntu do they have Speakup
| which is a linux screen reader included with it?
|
| Or do they have Brltty which is a braille display
| driver for text applications?
|
| The last thing does Ubuntu have a way to go straight
| to a text console instead of going right in to Gnome?

To check the availability of these packages
under Ubuntu you might try the following
commands from a Konsole shell window ....

# apt-cache show kernel-patch-speakup

# apt-cache show brltty

Both packages are available for Debian Linux
and since Ubuntu is Debian-based, they may
also be available for Ubuntu ....

Booting straight to a text console should be OK ....
Fwiw;

1) Ubuntu defaults to gnome (no "konsole" per se)
2) Ubuntu's installer is "synaptic" (try it for checking on speakup etc)
3) Speakup and Br1tty are supported w/caveats (search
http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrontPage) for details
4) Since it's linux, you should be able to boot straight to console (see
doc).

If you need any more info, post here or email me.

regards,

-Sparky
 
Fwiw;

1) Ubuntu defaults to gnome (no "konsole" per se)
2) Ubuntu's installer is "synaptic" (try it for checking on speakup etc)
3) Speakup and Br1tty are supported w/caveats (search
http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrontPage) for details
4) Since it's linux, you should be able to boot straight to console (see
doc).

If you need any more info, post here or email me.
The Kubuntu project aims to be to KDE what Ubuntu is to Gnome: a great
integrated distro with all the great features of Ubuntu, but based on
the KDE desktop.

Kubuntu includes more than 1,000 pieces of software, starting with Linux
version 2.6 and KDE 3.4, and covering every standard desktop application
from word processing and spreadsheet applications to internet access
applications, web server software, email software, programming languages
& tools and of course several games.

http://www.kubuntu.org.uk/index.php
 
Ablang said:
April 27th, 2005

Free Agent: Ubuntu Linux, Free and Fabulous

Editorial Applications Devel. Mgr. Matthew Newton

I'm going to just come right out and say it: I absolutely adore Ubuntu
Linux 5.04 (the "Hoary Hedgehog" release, often referred to as
"Hoary"). (clipped)

I'm sorry, I just have to say this.....

What kind of a dude says something like "I absolutely adore" anything?
Probably examines his fingernails by holding the back of his hand in
front of him.

80)>
 
John said:
I'm sorry, I just have to say this.....

What kind of a dude says something like "I absolutely adore" anything?
Probably examines his fingernails by holding the back of his hand in
front of him.

80)>

Don't listen to that nattering nabob of negativism, Ablang. I think
Ubuntu is to *die* for!

Sparky"does-this-scarf-go-with-these-cufflinks?"da Man
 
Sparky said:
Don't listen to that nattering nabob of negativism, Ablang. I think
Ubuntu is to *die* for!

Actually, Ablang was quoting a review by Matthew Newton. However, I'm
also very interested in Ubuntu. And in fact, I think Ablang was quite
positive about the distro. I also really like the idea of the next
version which is supposed to have some kind of automatic updating.
 
John said:
Actually, Ablang was quoting a review by Matthew Newton. However, I'm
also very interested in Ubuntu. And in fact, I think Ablang was quite
positive about the distro. I also really like the idea of the next
version which is supposed to have some kind of automatic updating.

I've Ubuntu 5.04 installed on desk and laptop. Overall, a very good
experience, easier to get up and running than, say, Suse 9.1. This
ubuntu does have an auto-update feature, btw.

Pluses: recognized all hardware except for wireless. Adding net
printers pretty straight-forward.

Minuses: d/n recognize dhcp, mountable partitions. Wireless & acpi
still rough around the edges (all manageable however).

regards,
Sparky
 
Sparky said:
I've Ubuntu 5.04 installed on desk and laptop. Overall, a very good
experience, easier to get up and running than, say, Suse 9.1. This
ubuntu does have an auto-update feature, btw.

Pluses: recognized all hardware except for wireless. Adding net
printers pretty straight-forward.

Minuses: d/n recognize dhcp, mountable partitions. Wireless & acpi
still rough around the edges (all manageable however).

Wow! Thanks for the review... I was looking real hard at Suse, but was
waiting for 9.3 to become available for free download. Now I'm
considering Ubuntu mainly instead. This is because of the PC World
review here:

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120520,00.asp

where Matthew Newton says that he "absolutely adores" Ubuntu. In it, he
describes the South African "gazillionaire" Mark Shuttleworth's
altruistic motivation for providing finanancial backing of the distro
and for making it freely available. There's even a "live CD" version of
it avaialble. He also mentions how Ubuntu is (logically) based on
Debian, the "grandpappy of noncommercial Linuxes."
I notice that at Distrowatch:

http://distrowatch.com/

Ubuntu is at the top of the Page Hit Ranking. Your saying that
installing and running Ubuntu is easier to install and get running than
Suse interests me greatly. The main reason I'd been considering Suse was
because from all that I'd read, it was the easiest to install for a dual
boot setup and had about the best UI.
However, your remarks are somewhat in dispute with Matthew Newton's
on the PCW page linked above. Specifically, I'm referring to the text
immediately below the section heading "What You Get For Free".

The main reasons I'm going to hold off on installing Ubuntu are:

1. I use OpenOffice.org on my system and know that the next version is
going to be vastly improved over the current version 1.1.4. According to
Distrowatch:

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ubuntu

Ubuntu presently comes with OO version 1.1.3, which is what I have on my
system now. I want to wait until a version of Ubuntu has then next
stable version of OO.
Of course maybe this isn't a big deal since I could always simply
update OO in the current verion Ubuntu (once I get used to Linux and
figure out how to do this.)

2. The next version of Ubuntu is supposed to have an automatic update
feature. According to Newton:

"In fact, when the next Ubuntu release ("Breezy Badger") comes out in
six months' time, upgrading to it should be as painless as feeding new
repositories to Apt and then typing 'sudo apt-get dist-upgrade' in a
terminal window. The system will then upgrade itself over the Internet."

From what I'm hearing, it's very likely that Ubuntu may be the long
awaited and eagerly anticipated MICROSOFT KILLER.

It's about time.
 
John said:
Wow! Thanks for the review... I was looking real hard at Suse,

The main reason I'd been considering Suse was
because ...it was the easiest to install for a dual
boot setup and had about the best UI.

First off, let's mention dual-boots. I know you know this but, for the
wider audience, dual-booting and installing are two discrete states.

Dual-booting on Suse and Ubuntu defaults to grub. I was not able to
find options for MS's multi-boot or Lilo. I was forced to use grub.
Grub is fine, don't get me wrong, but when/if you want to uninstall it,
it becomes exacting. Ubuntu (nor Suse) does not make it
easy/obvious/available to employ MS' multi-boot or LILO.

Onto installs. I found Suse 8.2 & 9.1 very easy to install. One (of
two) system was an upgrade: again, no probs. Much like Ubuntu. I'd
give the edge to Ubuntu but not by a wide margin.
However, your remarks are somewhat in dispute with Matthew Newton's on
the PCW page linked above.

<stuff deleted>

Hokay...

I don't know Matthew Newton of PCW. This is the second time I've read
this piece by him, the first was before I installed Ubuntu. Four things
stand out about this piece:

1) he doesn't say what kind of h/w he's using
2) no mention is made of dual-booting (clean-scrubbed hd?)
3) his /only/ complaint is a nautilus behavior (spatial-browse mode)
4) "Fabulous."

Number 4 is, well, fabulous. Number 3 is telling in that, for all the
complexity of any modern OS, to have the windowing behavior of the file
manager be the only complaint is...telling.

Now, let's talk about number 1 (hardware).

In my home lan, I have 2 laptops, a desktop (shuttle SFF) and a NAS. One
lappy and the desktop are win2k sp4 w/grub duals to *nix, 1 lappy
w/windows xpsp2 only. (The NAS, btw, is a Linkstation 160GB that runs a
variant of debian...a major reason for my looking into Ubuntu, btw.)

First challenge: Laptops, routers and wifi tend to stray from
"standards," if only because there are so many flavors w/in the standard.

Moving on. I have systems *from which* I wish to transition. I dare to
wager that this is the case that most *nix-watchers share. My goal,
however, is pretty focused: Transition to *nix before being forced to
upgrade from Win2k. This leads us to number 2 (dual-boots).

I want to make the data available from the Windows partitions to those
of the *nix install. No problemo. There is a (dare I say?) consensus
on how to do this easily(tm).

1) convert to windows applications which have *nix counterparts
2) point application data to partitions viewable by both OS's

Second challenge: Ubuntu's only recognition of dual-boot is to add
grub, making Ubuntu the default.

Newton's article gave short shrift to the fact that "joe enduser" must;

-diverge from "automagic" network detection (know your ip's),
-fstab,
-chroot (sudo or whatever),
-mount,
-edit (vi or whatever) /boot/grub/menu.lst
-a few other sundries.
The main reasons I'm going to hold off on installing Ubuntu are:

1. I use OpenOffice.org on my system

Ubuntu's apt-get installation interface "Synaptic" makes uninstalling
and installing truly trivial. Load 1.1.4, uninstall 1.1.3, load
1.9.5.100 (release candidate for 2.0), it's available. What's nice is
that "blessed" apps are marked. If you're feeling daring, go
"universal" for a broader selection. And even if your favorite
distribution isn't listed, chances are that the disto has instructions
for "debian" systems. Bravo!
2. The next version of Ubuntu is supposed to have an automatic update
feature. According to Newton:

"In fact, when the next Ubuntu release ("Breezy Badger") comes out in
six months' time, upgrading

Let's call this a "typo." You refer to updates, Newton refers to
upgrades." Ubuntu 5.0.4 (Hoary Hedgehog) already has the automatic
update feature which indicates, btw, whether it's "critical."
to it should be as painless as feeding new
repositories to Apt and then typing 'sudo apt-get dist-upgrade' in a
terminal window. The system will then upgrade itself over the Internet."

Hmmm. Let's take what he says on face-value. I don't really want to
"upgrade" most of my apps, let alone my OS's. I prefer fresh installs
but, hey, I'm willing to change my opinion (and reduce my work) on this
point.

At the end of the day, I am left with two (possibly) contradictory
messages about Ubuntu:

1) it is easier to administer than Suse 8.2 and 9.1
2) it is harder to find the info to do (the above) #1.

Number one outweighs number two by a wide margin. The fact that Ubuntu
is debian says a lot for longevity, stability and support. I
whole-heartedly recommend that you try the "live cd." It sold me.

regards,
Sparky
 
| ....
| Dual-booting on Suse and Ubuntu defaults to grub.
|
| I was not able to find options for MS's multi-boot or Lilo.
|
| I was forced to use grub. Grub is fine, don't get me wrong,
| but when/if you want to uninstall it, it becomes exacting.
|
| Ubuntu (nor Suse) does not make it easy/obvious/available
| to employ MS' multi-boot or LILO.

Cousin Sparky ....

I have never tried Ubuntu,
but I am a Debian GNU/Linux user,
and dual-boot the machine I have it on
with Win98_SE via Grub ....

Most of the references I've seen in Debian NewsGroups
seem to prefer Grub over Lilo as a boot loader,
although the reasons why are not immediately evident
to me personally ....

It's been about 10 months since I did the Debian install,
but I seem to recall being given the option to choose either
Grub or Lilo during the installation ....

The default system to be loaded, boot order,
and other boot parameters can be changed
by editing the Grub menu ....

/boot/Grub/menu.lst ...... in Debian

The docs for Grub are in a separate package ....

# apt-get install grub-doc

A guess at removing Grub and installing Lilo
would be the following, although I've never
done it ....

# apt-get --purge remove grub

# apt-get install lilo
 
Sparky said:
(clipped)
At the end of the day, I am left with two (possibly) contradictory
messages about Ubuntu:

1) it is easier to administer than Suse 8.2 and 9.1
2) it is harder to find the info to do (the above) #1.

Number one outweighs number two by a wide margin. The fact that Ubuntu
is debian says a lot for longevity, stability and support. I
whole-heartedly recommend that you try the "live cd." It sold me.

Well, this morning after I posted my last message to this thread (and
before I read the message you posted to which this is a reply) I
downloaded the Ubuntu ISO while I was taking a shower. Now if I can just
come up with the ba**s to do the install. Will have to take a few data
backup precautions first. I love having two big ol' hard drives!
 
Cousin said:
| ....
| Dual-booting on Suse and Ubuntu defaults to grub.
|
| I was not able to find options for MS's multi-boot or Lilo.
|
| I was forced to use grub. Grub is fine, don't get me wrong,
| but when/if you want to uninstall it, it becomes exacting.
|
| Ubuntu (nor Suse) does not make it easy/obvious/available
| to employ MS' multi-boot or LILO.

Cousin Sparky ....
The default system to be loaded, boot order,
and other boot parameters can be changed
by editing the Grub menu ....

/boot/Grub/menu.lst ...... in Debian

The docs for Grub are in a separate package ....

# apt-get install grub-doc

A guess at removing Grub and installing Lilo
would be the following, although I've never
done it ....

# apt-get --purge remove grub

# apt-get install lilo
Hey Cousin Stanley;

Thanks for the follow-up. Ubuntu doesn't give boot-loader options
during install but, come to think of, Suse may.

Wrt how to manage the load order, etc: thanks. I already gots me an
edumakashun in that one.

About switching loaders, I'm sticking with the "devil I know." Thanks
for taking the time to respond.

Best regards to you and Auntie Bertha,

-Sparky
 
John Corliss wrote:

Well, this morning after I posted my last message to this thread (and
before I read the message you posted to which this is a reply) I
downloaded the Ubuntu ISO...<stuff deleted>

John;

Just a note. I recommend the Live CD as a *great* confidence-builder.
Whole damned thing boots entirely from CD to RAM. A truly prophylactic
experience.

-Sparky
 
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