FP2002(xp) DRW Issue

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When is someone from Microsoft goingto admit there is an issue with FP
Extensions or an update to the client? (My trouble shooting is point towards
the server side on this).....

I have had MANY websites that are built using FP2002 using an Access DB 2000
format that is used by the site to display content dynamically. NOTHING on
these sites have ever changed.

The servers are 2000 with 2002 extensions installed. The client is FPxp and
the DB is access 2000.

Lately, all the sudden with my ISP that I have sites all built the same
across several Win2k servers are starting to "break"...

Problem: Any web page that uses a SIMPLE drw to display date from a DB
displays fine. The links that are generated from a drw page that points to
another DB handler written solely with the DRW to display info from a DB with
a varialble passed all the sudden FAILS!

Also, insert records to a db work ok, but when you try to update a record
using a sinmple query update, you get that gneric error stating that the
operation failed. When finding the underlying error (by going TRUE in the
extensions) you get an error message that points to a FP2003 and Server 2003
issue, NOTHING to do with the server and client I am using.

What's happening and causing the failure is that the (s-columnnames=) and
the (s-columntypes=) are no longer being populated by the client or server..
one or the other. They used to be population just fine! Why all the sudden
when you put in a custom query does this no longer happen? MS changed
something and it's funny how the issue is always avoided. Will anyone please
answer the question?

Not to mention, pages where this information worked just fine, all the
sudden, the information comes up missing with out any page access by the FP
client.

SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS! and a fix needs to be posted by MS.

Nothing is being done out of the ordinary nor has anything I am doing
changed. Something MS did to either their extensions OR to the Clietn via an
update has caused this. I have yet to find out what....

Please don't ask me for code example as it's happening to ALL pages as I
stated above. Plain and simple. I have had 15 sites "break" because of
something that MS released and or updated.. What is it?


Before I repopulate by hand...
(s-columnnames="" s-columntypes=""

After I repopulate this by hand...
(s-columnnames="cmid,couponid,title,adminnotes,start,stop,override,textoffer,creation_date,image,thumb"
s-columntypes="3,3,202,203,135,135,202,203,135,202,202")
 
The problem is identified for FP 2003 in
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;817029
And for FP 2002 in
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;289317

--




| When is someone from Microsoft goingto admit there is an issue with FP
| Extensions or an update to the client? (My trouble shooting is point towards
| the server side on this).....
|
| I have had MANY websites that are built using FP2002 using an Access DB 2000
| format that is used by the site to display content dynamically. NOTHING on
| these sites have ever changed.
|
| The servers are 2000 with 2002 extensions installed. The client is FPxp and
| the DB is access 2000.
|
| Lately, all the sudden with my ISP that I have sites all built the same
| across several Win2k servers are starting to "break"...
|
| Problem: Any web page that uses a SIMPLE drw to display date from a DB
| displays fine. The links that are generated from a drw page that points to
| another DB handler written solely with the DRW to display info from a DB with
| a varialble passed all the sudden FAILS!
|
| Also, insert records to a db work ok, but when you try to update a record
| using a sinmple query update, you get that gneric error stating that the
| operation failed. When finding the underlying error (by going TRUE in the
| extensions) you get an error message that points to a FP2003 and Server 2003
| issue, NOTHING to do with the server and client I am using.
|
| What's happening and causing the failure is that the (s-columnnames=) and
| the (s-columntypes=) are no longer being populated by the client or server..
| one or the other. They used to be population just fine! Why all the sudden
| when you put in a custom query does this no longer happen? MS changed
| something and it's funny how the issue is always avoided. Will anyone please
| answer the question?
|
| Not to mention, pages where this information worked just fine, all the
| sudden, the information comes up missing with out any page access by the FP
| client.
|
| SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS! and a fix needs to be posted by MS.
|
| Nothing is being done out of the ordinary nor has anything I am doing
| changed. Something MS did to either their extensions OR to the Clietn via an
| update has caused this. I have yet to find out what....
|
| Please don't ask me for code example as it's happening to ALL pages as I
| stated above. Plain and simple. I have had 15 sites "break" because of
| something that MS released and or updated.. What is it?
|
|
| Before I repopulate by hand...
| (s-columnnames="" s-columntypes=""
|
| After I repopulate this by hand...
| (s-columnnames="cmid,couponid,title,adminnotes,start,stop,override,textoffer,creation_date,image,thumb"
| s-columntypes="3,3,202,203,135,135,202,203,135,202,202")
 
Not to personally attack you, but thanks for pointing out the obvious.

This is far from my post.

"It worked for years, now it doens't." <-- THIS is the problem!

WHAT did MS change?

The articles you pointed out do not answer the question.

Atricle 817029 has NOTHING to do with my situation as far as product. It
talks SPECIFICALLY about FrontPage 2003. I was very clear in stating that my
situation involves FrontPage XP(2002) and the server platform is 2000 based,
so where is the confusion?

Also, Article 289317 deals with Time Stamping. My query doesn't deal with
time staming...

and where does either of these articles address WHY the heck the
s-columstpye and name is NO LONGER BEING POPULATED BY THE SOFTWARE WHEN IT
HAD FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS THAT THIS PROGRAM HAS BEEN OUT? WHAT CHANGED AND WHY?

I understand that the so-called license agreement states "as-is", however,
"AS-IS" was fine until THEY changed something to progress it backawards. It
WAS WORKING and now it DOES NOT WORK!

Please... point me to an article that talks about why. For 5 years there was
never a need for a work around and now there is.

This SPECIFICALLY deals with any DRW generated code when you use a customer,
and simple I might add - non-complex, UPDATE or DELETE query. In fact, it
does not happen when you make a custom SELECT query statement.

Example: UPDATE table SET name='::name::' WHERE (id=::id::) or DELETE *
FROM table WHERE (id=::id::) - NOTHING fancy here... and for at least 5
years, these worked.

You mean to tell me that even on sites where this code has been installed,
used, and untouched for 5 years AND all the sudden they stopped working that
these two articles are going to answer the question? They don't.

I appreciate your tought on a reply, but if you read my original post, it
seems to me the "simple" let's post the 817029 article which does not address
the reason this is happening, only that Microsoft has changed their program
somwhere and this function now no longer works.

There should be NO reason for a work-around on something that always worked
before. I thought the whole idea of FrontPage was that it did most of the
work for you. Why should I ever had to edit a <webbot> region?

Now, does someone here know why this is happening, I know how to fix it
already.. figired this out without an article by looking at the code.. You
know, this is REALLY frustrating when someone trying to make a living has to
go back and recode 40 websites in a week because something changed.

With this in mind, I would appreciate it that if someone is going to answer,
please take the time to put real thougt into it without a 1 line canned and
non-related answer.

Thank you!
 
It has to do with tightening of Security.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WebMaster Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
 
Thanks Thomas,.. and I am honored, I guess, since I didn't get your usual
"learn how to write you own asp and don't use a $150.00 program that was
intended to do what it advertises" comment I see all over the internet.

But seriously, if Microsoft can't fix the problem, they simply remove it,
not tell anyone, and cost people money? Come on... I smell a class action
here. I am not only a registered user of the software, I am also an
actionpack subscriber, MS partner, and no notice goes out on these kind of
changes? That's two avenues they had to notify users... the end user level
and the partner level.

I mean, Microsoft can't publish something as important as this? rather, they
choose to look the other way, ignore an issue to the small business industry
that they claim to want to be their friend? and then leave them crippled?

And no where in this so widely published article do they even mention what
you did. However, they do leave people SERIOUSLY confused, as you all know by
seeing it all over the internet, that the article you are pointed to refers
to FP2003 and mentions nothing about 2002 or lower products.

Hey MICROSOFT employees, if you are reading this, how about stepping up to
the plate and doing the right thing on this one. The documentation on this
wide spread issue is poor at best... you do NOT cover enough information on
this, and you are affecting MANY websites on the net.

Tightening of security? Hardly.. I can't see how this is anything other than
a bug in a patch. Come on, all it's doing is NOT populating the s-columntype
and name fields in an update or delete query when using the DRW to generate
the code. AND top top it off, they are telling you to put them back in by
hand? This is a bug, period! Plain and simple! If it were a security issue,
they would not only tell you that these were unavailable now, and they would
not allow the code to be over written either. Does MS really think we are
this stupid? Actually, yea.. I think they do. I hardly see how not allowing
the client or extension to write the column name and types automatically is a
security fix.

Anyone one to bet that this gets fixed in another SR? or a patch?

When a search is done on google on the generic message, over half of the
sites returned are not message/tech boards discussing the issue, rather, they
are live sites displaying the error.

Thank god we have a very active attorney general in our state that doens't
care too much for M.S.
 
There have been a number of security changes to Windows and IE that effect web sites and database
connections this year and it doesn't matter if you use the FP database components or hand code, so
it is somewhat not a FP issue, but an overall tightening of security in Windows and IE.

And there is not documentation of the issues
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WebMaster Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
 
The FP Database component do basically what they were designed to do, and if you need more
functionality or flexibility then provided by them, you have to learn to code your own ASP/VBScript
which in the long term will serve your better.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WebMaster Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
 
Thomas, Thank you again for your input and reply. At least this does shed
light to the issue.

However,

I have read your commends about hand coding your own asp code and though I
agree with you, it really angers me that you, a Microsoft MVP of Frontpage,
would suggest to people that they "need to learn their own code"....

I think it's extremely irresponsible to tell people that especially with an
endorsement of Microsoft in the posts.

I am able to hand code some portions of my code as are others... however,
some don't know any coding at all. Microsoft puts out a product that replaces
the need to hand code your own code. So WHY would you tell someone, that is
seeking an answer to a problem with a product, they need to learn asp? I have
read your posts on other boards.

I recall you telling one person who said that FP was a time saver.. then you
told her "well how much of a time saver is it when you are here looking for
an answer?" Nice way to put someone down.

Microsoft has a responsibility to make sure the products they sell work or
let the consumer know the problems and fix them. If you don't believe me,
then at least believe the law suits that have been won against them.

Again, I do agree that knowing code is the best thing for anyone, however,
not everyone is at your level, even my level, ... infact, some people barely
know how to run their computer but have a duty for what ever reason to put
thier sites up. Some of them don't have the money to hire someone to build
their site and maybe thier site is their paycheck. Everyone has to start
somewhere and maybe this is it for them.

Along with your 'learn ASP' statements, why not tell people to hand code all
their HTML too? Doesn't frontpage and other author clients offer time savings
too? I find more time savings when a program does the work for you so I don't
have to go back and debug my code to find that one out of place "<" in my
code.

Bottom line is most people are asking for guidance on a specific issue and
what they can do to make their program function correctly, not a statement
telling them basically that they are uneducated and to lear ASP.

For the record, I would proabably say that I am in between you and the
"average" consumer on experience. What I do also have is the ability to pick
apart code and learn from example, again a trait that many don't have. You,
with your MVP association should seriously rethink your "learn ASP" comments
in a forum that deals with help on a specific topic.

The issue I am having is specific to a program. A program that worked fine
for years through 2 releases. The only problem is that the s-columntypes and
s-columnnames are not being populated any more when a DELETE or UPDATE query
is entered. However, I hardly believe that it's a security issue when MS
tells you to put it back in by hand. The missing items are not a threat if
they tell you to put it in by hand or am I missing something?

I have an open ticket with the MS professional support department on this
issue now. They are currently reproducing the error on their end and will
have a resolution shortly, or at minimum a bulliten that addresses the actual
2002 issue.

Also, did you know that in the client side program install, that illusive
817029 error is actually in the FPDBRGN1.INC file on the C:\program
files\Microsoft Office directory? Did you knwo that the article number that
refers you to a 2003 issue is actually being written by a 2002 client? Also,
further, I found the actual lines of code that tells the FP DB Region file to
STRIP OUT the name and types... replace it with "" and "" respectfully?

I find it extremely irresponsible for MS to knowingly cause this to happen
and half ass document the issue. They could at least in the KB article adress
that it is in fact a 2002 issue as well. There have been hundreds of
instances on the internet where people have stated, like myself, that they
have 2002 and not 2003 but are experiencing the problem. The "break" happens
in SP3 of FP2002 from what I can tell so far - atleast I knwo it's not in the
release candidate of 2002 / clean install.

Bottom line, I think you provide a great service to those looking for help
if you would leave your personal opinions out of your mission to help people
who are extremely frustrated with a stupid issue that has probably destroyed
their day. If you best address their problem specifically, they will be much
more served. I think that everyone would love to have the ability to learn
how to code thier own sites but in the real world, an in the case where they
purchased a program (an expensive program at that - $150 retail) I think that
most people would expect that it works the way it's advertised to work and
nothing less. (By the way, $150.00 retail is more than the operating system
itself)

For the record, this issue and all gathered evidence on this issue from the
web and in the program code has been sent to my state's Attorney General's
office and State Senator for revue. I don't mess around.

Again, not trying to be an as* to you, rather simply pointing out that you
often do more harm and come off bitter, than you do good.

For eveyone else, I will post my findings here in what MS tells me on
Tuesday May 31st or when I get this resolved.
 
It'd be interesting to see your state's AG and senator's responses, please post them as well.
 
Denon,

1. No MS MVP is under any obligation to full support every feature of the specific product that they
were awarded a MVP status for.

2. MS expect MVPs to offer users the best solution for a specific situation, in so case that means
not using a MS solution.

3. Because the FP database component have manage by FP, there are limitations, and to work around
these limitation, users will need to use other solutions, such as ASP and ASP.net and for users on
Unix/Linux, learning PHP, etc.

4. When you take the time to learn a server-side scripting language, you put yourself in to a much
better position to be able handle whatever project requirements that just can not be done using the
FP database components.

5. Everyone has to start somewhere, if you chose not to learn ASP, that is your problem, however
there is not application written that can handle everything that might be needed in a web project,
so additional applications or skills and knowledge is needed.

6. The FP database component work as designed, however there have been Windows, IE and Office update
release that do effect FP functionality and depending on the nature of the update, they are fixed in
the next update or a KB is release to address the issue and offer a working around or solution, etc.

7. I have never made the following statement or anything similar to it, in all of the years I have
been participating in this newsgroup!
I recall you telling one person who said that FP was a time saver.. then you
told her "well how much of a time saver is it when you are here looking for
an answer?" Nice way to put someone down.
Click to expand...


--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WebMaster Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
 
Well, Tom, it sure makes ME feel a lot better to know that I'm not the only
one that gets dumped on around here. Every time it happens I find my old
Catholic guilt rising in my chest. And I'm not even Catholic! ;-)

--

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.
 
It is just part of life.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WebMaster Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
 
Thomas,

Actually, you did say what I quoted you on. I will be happy to re-look that
up and point the URL back here for you.

Also, my original post was completely missed. My statement was very clear
and as usualy, responded with the usual KB817029.

That particular article, at current, does NOT apply to FP2002. (Yes, it does
resolve the issue) however, it still doesn't address the WHY and the fact
that it's also 2002 specific. This confuses some users that are not as
sophisticated.

Second, I stand by my comment on if you or anyone is going to help someone
with a problem, either answer the question or step back and let others.
Telling someone to learn ASP does not answer the question, rather, you sound
like the phone or cable company technical support.

Third, check back to KB817029 in a few days as the article is being updated
by MS. After speaking with pro technical support, it was finally revealed
that there was in fact a problem with SP3. At the last minute, they decided
to KB the problem and fix it in the next release. They also admitted that it
was not handled properly in the first place and that I was correct in my
report. A hotfix is going to be released soon and customers will be notified
on the web more in depth on what's happening.

The FP client does NOT function as intended after SP3. In addition, I never
ever stated that I expected FP or any program to perform all tasks of ASP or
web needs. If I did, please point it out. I also do know some ASP but don't
plan on a lifetime in ASP either. I make too much money to take on one little
task in life. Sorry. I have a businesses to run...

Again, to you and Kevin, I am not unloading on you for your help, rather, I
unloaded on Thomas, in a way, for the way he has a history of helping some
people. If you were in my employ and you gave the answeres you did to my
customers, you would not be in my employ for long. You are correct in all
your assessments, however, when a customer (I know I am not your customer) ,
or a person seeking help wans to know why their product doesn't work, you
don't tell them to learn to do it another way. ALl you will do is further
anger them.

Don't let the MVP status go to your head and I won't let my Certified Parter
status go to mine. My MCSE's tried to give me a similar answer to which I
also rejected. I finally got the answer that corrected my issue from MS.
 
Denon,

Please provide the URL to what I supposedly said.

This is a peer-to-peer newsgroup where people come for solutions, and I stand by my statements that
when users run into FP Database issues or limitation, that they should learn ASP or other server
scripting. Doing so, will put the user in a much better position to add more advanced functionality,
then can be added with any application that write code for you, such as the FP database components.

It time is money, then wanting to know the Why, is a waste of time and money, when you need to get a
project done, you want a solution. ASP is actually kind of easy to learn, and for your issue would
have been very simple to solve by hand coding. I would not have recommended KB817029 as a solution.

I am grateful that I am not in your employ or anyone else's for what it is worth.

The MVP status has not gone to my head and I really don't care if you have MCSE or not as it makes
no difference to me.

Everyone that post here always has the option to call MS Product Support.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WebMaster Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
 
Denon sure is verbose for someone "who has a business to run".

I still would be curious to see his complaint to his state's AG and senator...and of course their responses.

ah well...
 
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