Fortran PSU's in the UK?

[Bill L]

Hi all

On Anandtech they've got a round-up of quite a few PSU's the Antec TruePower
330 watt I'm using doesn't fair particularly well, particularly for AMD
systems and I was thinking of replacing the PSU anyway.

However, the Fortran PSU's did get a good review (and are quiet) and I was
wondering if these were available in the UK? BTW the Fortran's share quite a
few components with Zalman PSU's but our cheaper, apparently.

TIA

Bill

Sys spec/config
AMD XP2000+ (@ 2.1 GHz 10.5 x 200 1.7v)
Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro (Using on-board audio & NIC)
OCZ 512 MB DIMM PC3200
Sapphire 9700 (non-pro) (128MB)

GlobalWin 802 ATX Midi Case
Antec TruePower 330 Watt PSU

Primary IDE Channel
1 x 120 GB Maxtor ATA133 (Master)2 Partitions
1 x 40 GB IBM ATA66 (slave)3 Partitions

Secondary IDE Channel
Liteon 40x12x48x CDRW (Master) DL: F
Liteon 16x DVD (Slave) DL: E

OtherHW
HP 940C USB Printer
Cannon LiDE30 USB Scanner
Belkin 7 Port USB HUB
Hauppauge WinTV PCI

OS: WinXP Pro SP1

 

[Jaime]

On Anandtech they've got a round-up of quite a few PSU's the Antec TruePower
330 watt I'm using doesn't fair particularly well, particularly for AMD
systems and I was thinking of replacing the PSU anyway.

However, the Fortran PSU's did get a good review (and are quiet) and I was
wondering if these were available in the UK? BTW the Fortran's share quite a
few components with Zalman PSU's but our cheaper, apparently.

snip

Since the demise of theoverclocking store,
http://www.koolnquiet.co.uk/index.php?main=catalog&id=40 is the only place
of I know in the UK to get them. I'm also thinking of getting one soon.

regards

Jaime

 

[Bob Knowlden]

I'm not in the UK, but...

In the Anandtech article, note that Fortron=Sparkle (at least, Sparkle sells
a unit like the Fortron under the same part number). You may have an easier
time finding Sparkle supplies.

HTH.

Bob Knowlden

Spam dodger may be in use. Replace nkbob with bobkn.

 

[Ed Light]

Not sure if newegg.com will sell overseas but maybe.

 

[Bill L]

So I've confused Sparkle with Zalman of being similar to Fortran PSU's -
typical of me that )

 

[Gaurav Sharma]

What'll you be replacing with it? I've an Enermax one, not too sure about
whether to replace that (80mm speed-controllable) with this, the 120mm fan
is sure to make a difference sound-wise. Also, do you think the 7200.7 you
spoke of earlier would be audiable in comparison in idle mode? I can't
really hear it right now over the Enermax. I bought a passive FX5200 card
recently, so basically the only thing left making any noise will be the CPU
fan (An 80mm NMB 15dB).

G.Sharma.

While we're on the topic, does anyone know of any 120mm heatsinks?!

G.Sharma.

 

[Caroline]

Since the demise of theoverclocking store,
http://www.koolnquiet.co.uk/index.php?main=catalog&id=40 is the onlyplace
of I know in the UK to get them. I'm also thinking of getting one soon.

regards

Jaime

I'll second Jaime - got mine from Kool'n'Quiet. It's a brilliant psu,
*far* less noisy than my QuietPC unit. I'm really happy with it.

Oh, and Kool'n'Quiet are excellent on tech support, too, which is a rare
thing these days. I think the chap's name is Paul. He spent bloody hours
with me over problems with this PC.

Regards

Caroline



Caroline Picking, (e-mail address removed)
Milton Keynes, England.

 

[Jaime]

On Anandtech they've got a round-up of quite a few PSU's the Antec

While we're on the topic, does anyone know of any 120mm heatsinks?!

I will be replacing an antc true power 380w and possible a 350w enermax fma
(probably the same one as you). Both of the 2 psu's I currently have make
about the same noise with reasomable case airflow. The hard disk shoudl
still remin practically inaudiable, however from a distance you might notice
a low frequency hum. To get rid of the hum suspension and damping are
probably needed. Read silentpcreview it has tones of stuff and has kept me
occupied for the past 2 or 3 weeks reading the posts. The NMB 15db is very
quiet ~ the 24v m1a panaflo @ 12v from what I've read so shouldnt be
audiable over the hard disk or the psu. The psu you currently have will be
making much more noise than the hard disk for cpu fan. As for 120mm
heatsinks, dont bother go for a slk900 with a 92mm nmb and a zalman fan
speed controller or simular.

I have a cu7000 zalman, 3 24 v m1a's ~ 12v and 3 hard disks (barracuda IV 80
gb * 2 & 160 gb samsung). The antec psu makes most of the noise and is
clearly audiable from 1m, from 4m away the comp is nice and quiet.

Personally I'm probably goign to wait for the 400w seasonic super silencer
as its quieter (slightly or more depending on system loading of the psu) and
its more efficient which helps if the comps on 24/7.

Jaime

 

[Manny]

On Anandtech they've got a round-up of quite a few PSU's

That Anandtech power supply review is complete crap, except for
the fan noise tests, and the reviewer admits to being incompetent
about testing supplies (he didn't volunteer for the job. He was
drafted for it). Don't trust any of those reviews unless
they did amp measurements, as they do at SilentPCReview.com.

 

[Tim Auton]

Yeah I have a 350W enermax like you mention. If I disable the 90 inner fan
(by sticking some tak in its way so it can't rotate) the PSU noise level
falls a bit, but it's still probably the most audiable thing in the system
at the moment.

I'm not sure on the heatsink thing with respect to cooling; surely whatever
size/material the heatsink is, the power output is the same and the case
will still need to eventually remove the same amount of heat? I've a fairly
cheap 80mm coolermaster Al HS in there at the moment, so am not sure on
upgrading to one of those massive copper SLK things.

A big fat copper sink will require less air to be moved over it and /
or will remove the same amount of heat with a lesser temperature
differential. In plain english, you can run your fan slower and have
your case hotter without frying the CPU.


Tim

 

[Jaime]

snip

Yeah I have a 350W enermax like you mention. If I disable the 90 inner fan
(by sticking some tak in its way so it can't rotate) the PSU noise level
falls a bit, but it's still probably the most audiable thing in the system
at the moment.

The 80mm fan on the enermax is meant to be quiet noisy. On my antec the 92mm
fan makes most of the noise. A cheaper option would be to replace the fans
in the enermax with nmb/panaflos. I've got a 92nmb and a 80mm l1a panaflo
sitting on my desk waiting to swap in the enermax. Trouble is the fan
headers in the psu are non standard (be careful when working in side a psu,
the fan connectors are however to one corner away from most of the coils and
caps), so I'm goign to have to cut the current fans and solder in the new
ones to the current fan's tails.

I'm not sure on the heatsink thing with respect to cooling; surely whatever
size/material the heatsink is, the power output is the same and the case
will still need to eventually remove the same amount of heat? I've a fairly
cheap 80mm coolermaster Al HS in there at the moment, so am not sure on
upgrading to one of those massive copper SLK things.

Yes the case will eventually however you need to move the heat from the cpu
first. It will defently bring you cpu temps down if you upgrade, although
depending on your case you may need to add some case fans. As I said I have
the 24v panaflos and there very very quiet so make great case fans. Even in
my lian li case without the case fans everything gets toasty (3 hard disks
and a passivly cooler 9700 pro dont help), adding 2 intakes an exhaust and
then cutting a side blow hole dropped the cpu temp 15 degrees ish, with no
notiable increase in noise as the fans are so quiet. Do cut out stamped
grills and repalce with wire grills.

IV

Does that still use a 80mm fan though?

Yes it does however theres a tornado version with a 120mm fan (dont be
fooled by the name as its meant to be very quiet not sure if its as quiet as
the super silencer though).

Whats a good place to buy the HD suspending kit?

Theres a noise control case from a UK supplier that I cant recall, most
people on spcr make their own from bunge elastic cord.

Let me know how it goes if you buy one of these PSUs, I'll likely fully

suite.

Will do, I'll probably wait a few weeks as I've spend far to much on
upgrades of late.

God knows how these things are going to cope when Intel releases their 100w

P5 and get graphics cards get faster, though.

True thats going to be a problem, hopwever hopefully we will see the pm
chips in desktop format and other laptop technologies to help.

Jaime

 

[Jaime]

On Anandtech they've got a round-up of quite a few PSU's

That Anandtech power supply review is complete crap, except for
the fan noise tests, and the reviewer admits to being incompetent
about testing supplies (he didn't volunteer for the job. He was
drafted for it). Don't trust any of those reviews unless
they did amp measurements, as they do at SilentPCReview.com.

Also aparently in the forums on anandtech he admits that soem of the tests
are complete rubbish. If you want quiet and good go by the silentpcreview
review's which say the seasonic super silencer is the psu to get. Shame
there isnt a uk based supplier or soemone who will ship to the uk.

Jaime

 

[Jaime]

Yeah, but the problem isn't with the CPU once you've got it effectively

cooled, it's with the case, more specifically the area around the heatsink
where the heat collects. If the CPU has a set heat output, I don't see how
getting a better heatsink can magically just swallow that heat, it's still
got to be moved away from the CPU at the same rate doesn't it?

I hope I'm being clear here: If there's buses moving 100 passengers from A
to B per second, (bus = heatsink, passengers = heat), surely area B (area
around heatsink) will have 500 passengers (the same amount of heat) standing
there after 5 seconds, regardless at how efficient the bus is?

Theres 4 issues:

1: effective ambient temp ie case temp. This is reduced by better case
airflow. Lower case temps needs lower cpu temps as the delta is constant.

2: air flow over heatsink, mostly from cpu fan some from case airflow (case
fans). Increased airflow up to a point increases cooling as the air next to
the sink is cooler as the heated air is move quicker.

3: heatsink area, greater area more conduction with air. Therfore larger
area needs less air flow for same gooling hence slower cpu fan and less case
airflow required. This is why a bigger sink is better.

4: heatsink material. a: to move heat from cpu to outer heatsink as
quick/effectivily as possible thus reducing core temp, b: better thermal
conductivity with the air transfering the heat from the sink faster thus
requiring less airflow. b isnt that improtant, ie aluminium isnt that much
worse than copper for this, a is and means that its oftne better for the
heat sink core to be copper. The outer fins can then be aluminium to recuce
cost/weight.

Hence a bigger heatsink with more surface area is better, if there was no
case airflow then there woudl be much differnce and the cpu would
die/throttle with any heatsink.

So you want a big heatsink with a copper core. A largish slow fan (panaflo
or nmb 92mm ideally), and reasomable case airflow, a 5v nmb 120mm or some
panaflo 80mm's. Ideally you want an intake and an exhaust afan to ensure
good cooling. Do not rely upon the psu fan as the exhaust as that will
increase the psu temps notiable thus makng it speed up its fans to
compensate. So unless you need an absolute silent system at a few inches
distance rather than a very quiet system, its IMHO best to have several fans
but all nice and slow and quiet. Having intake and exhaust fans also helps
keep hard disks and gfx cards cool.

Hope thats clear, what case do u have btw?

Jaime

 

[Jaime]

snip

Good thinking..isn't this stuff dangerous though? Soldering does sound a
bit dodgey, and if the PSU goes nuts, can't it fry everything else in the
system?

Yes if your not careful. However the psu shoudlnt overheat with the fans and
I'm still going to use the header so it can speed the fan up if needed. As
for the soldering I am sinply joining 2 wires as the fan I have doesnt have
the right connector hence I solder the existing one on. All this can be done
outside and away from the psu as both fans on the enermax use fan headers
that are easily unplugable (albeit non standard fan headers and plugs)

snip

What tools did you use to cut the holes in the Lian Li? I have a Lian Li-51
or something, the compact one with the PSU side-mounted, which doesn't
really help things. If I put fans near the grille at the top (even the
NMBs) they do seem to create a good deal of "swooshing" noise. It sounded
like a good idea at the time, but I'm annoyed sick at the case now - it's
really begging for space to mount a 120mm exhaust fan in the rear.

I cut the rear fan gril out on the mobo tray and added a side blow hole
using a standard jigsaw and soem metal blades, this went through the soft
aluminium quite easily. I taped both sides with parcel tape first to protect
the surfaces. The swooshing noise is probably the stamped grill on the lian
li case which blocks ~ 40 % of the airflow and is why I cut it out and just
placed a wire fan grill over the fan.

snip

Heh, I've noticed

Dam technology, get a decent setup and then something better comes along.

Yup, I'd snap one of those up in a second. I doubt they'll bring it to
desktop though, more likely in small server racks and stuff.

Aparently theres soem mini itx boards comming with support, trouble is the
boards are expensive as is the chip.

Jaime

 

[Gaurav Sharma]

Yes, you've still got to shift the same amount of heat out of the
case. But hotter air carries more heat for a given volume, so you
don't need to move as much of it. To get away with hotter air around
the CPU you need a more effective heatsink.

In my system the most temperature critical thing is the CPU, if it
weren't for that needing cool air I'd have my case another few degrees
warmer. That would mean the air in the case would be hotter, the air
leaving the case would be hotter so I would need less airflow through
the case to move the same amount of heat. less airflow = less noise.


Tim

Point understood, thanks!
G.Sharma.

 

[Gaurav Sharma]

snip
I cut the rear fan gril out on the mobo tray and added a side blow hole
using a standard jigsaw and soem metal blades, this went through the soft
aluminium quite easily. I taped both sides with parcel tape first to protect
the surfaces. The swooshing noise is probably the stamped grill on the lian
li case which blocks ~ 40 % of the airflow and is why I cut it out and just
placed a wire fan grill over the fan.

Good idea, I think I'll do the same. Is it better to make that area an
intake or exhaust? (i.e. which way do you recommend putting the fan).

Dam technology, get a decent setup and then something better comes along.

Heh, yeah, noticed the R9800Pro and R9600Pro U editions on komplett now.
Might get the R9600U, or just a passive FX5200 for the time being.
Currently running on an old analog GF2MX, which is a pain. (Sold the
modified R9500P recently on ebay for £161,was too loud).

Aparently theres soem mini itx boards comming with support, trouble is the
boards are expensive as is the chip.

Yeah, might relieve hundreds of headaches in other areas though, since the
CPU seems to be the main heat producer. Using the ULV P-Ms at 7v, you'd
basically be able to get by using just a heatsink. I'd probably be willing
to pay triple price for a CPU like that. Where did you hear about the mITX
boards?

G.Sharma.

 

[Caroline]

In <[email protected]>,


Which QuietPC PSU did you have? You're not the first person to say
they're disappointed by them, but my 300W one is great. Aren't you the
person who also has an Arctic Cooling CPU cooler? Mine's noisier than
the PSU except when completely idle with VCool. I've gone off it, it's a
potentially great design, but too cheap for its own good, let down by a
low quality fan which has got much noisier after the first couple of
days' use. At load in this weather it's competing with the extractor fan
in the bathroom. Add 10 to the dB figures they claim on their website
IMO.

Y'know, sometimes it just seems like luck of the draw or something. My
QuietPC unit was the 300w one. I was really quite disappointed in it bc
it didn't really seem very much quieter than the no-name junk which came
with the case. However, I got used to it. I couldn't hear my Arctic
Cooling HSF above the QuietPC unit *at all*. I thought it totally
silent!

Then the psu fan started to stick and the 12v rail decided to be a 13v
one and I got the Fortron unit. It was (is) incredibly quiet and that
120mm fan has really helped knock my case temps back. So *then* I
realised I could hear the Arctic Cooling HSF and that it had a kind of
whine, not too loud, but just audible. The kind of thing you decide you
can live with for a few months but maybe one day you'll get something
better...if you get round to it ... etc etc. However, I have to say that
over the past week or two, the whine seems to have worn itself out a bit
and though I can kind of hear it ..it's...umm, more of a 'whooshing' I
suppose. And, as you say, in this weather.... Well, that fan is now
running flat out more often than not. Can't wait to hear what it sounds
like in autumn/winter when the room temps drop 10degC!! In truth, the
noisiest component now is actually the HD which I never really heard
before all this!

Frankly, your HSF sounds pretty duff and I'd be wanting a swap-out or
something if I were you.

HTH

Regards

Caroline

Caroline Picking, (e-mail address removed)
Milton Keynes, England.

 

[Tony Houghton]

In <[email protected]>,

Frankly, your HSF sounds pretty duff and I'd be wanting a swap-out or
something if I were you.

I've just replaced it with a GlacialTech Silent Breeze. That's really
quiet *all* the time . I think it's about as effective at cooling as
the Arctic despite being smaller - mainly due to better quality metal I
suppose - but I don't want to push it too hard in this weather.

I'll eBay the Arctic, I've sold a couple of coolers there before and got
very good prices; depsite it not being the heatsink for me, it's so good
for what I paid, I reckon I stand a chance of making a profit! (If you
don't count the Glacialtech being a little more expensive).