For John Kelly re FAT source files

  • Thread starter Thread starter CW
  • Start date Start date
C

CW

Could not pick up yr response, John, so had to do this new
post. Thanks a lot for all your suggestions, really
appreciate all that food for thought. Some of the
possibilities can be eliminated however. Here's the
situation:
I took the plunge last night and moved my files off the
secondary FAT32 drive and re-formatted it to NTFS with 4kb
chunks.
I re-captured the footage and in high hopes, ran the clips
but alas no improvement whatever. So now we know it is not
a FAT32/filesize issue.
I could try again with the quality set to "best for
computer playback" rather than DV-AVI which I have used on
the two previous attempts - any point in this?
FYI I have approx 30 collections and 20 edited projects.
Except for two (this and one previous one) they have all
been absolutely fine. They were about equally split, some
on C: (NTFS), some on D: was FAT32. This is the first
wobble MM2 has ever given me. The only other bad capture
was of a similar size (30+ mins) and also saved to D.
To answer yr specific queries:
No, I was not using a file size manager prog.
Rather than scrambled I should better have said seriously
jerky. It is absolutely great on playback in the camera
(Sony TRV-30) so I'm pretty happy that the original
footage is good.
Used Firewire as in all previous captures. Only use USB
for uploading stills from camera.
Defrag doesn't seem an issue as I still have the prob now,
after re-formatting. (Full, not just Quick).
CPU = Intel 2.8, RAM = 1 GB DDR. OS = XP Pro SP1.
Re HDD mode, in Primary IDE Channel Properties device 0
Transfer Mode is "DMA if available" and Current Mode
is "Ultra DMA Mode 2". Device 1 is "DMA if available" but
Current Mode is PIO. ***Is this my problem?***** How do I
force DMA on device 1, drive D:, the baddie?
Re "Data Write Behind" available and enabled, you've got
me there...dunno...how to check, plse?
Re needing 32 bit data tfr mode...likewise...where to set?
Re other progs running, no, I always keep the sys
absolutely clear, no 'net connection, usually reboot
before capture too, just to flush out. And I even bar the
Mrs from Freecell.
John, really admire the attitude and help that you and
PapaJohn put into all our MM2 issues. And of course, hope
this one gets resolved. MANY thanks. :):)
CW
 
Hi there,

Could not pick up yr response, John, so had to do this new
post. Thanks a lot for all your suggestions, really
appreciate all that food for thought. Some of the
possibilities can be eliminated however. Here's the
situation:
I took the plunge last night and moved my files off the
secondary FAT32 drive and re-formatted it to NTFS with 4kb
chunks.
Click to expand...

For storage of large files you must format with 64Kb "chunks" :) It means more
efficient data transfer and less wasted hard drive space.
I re-captured the footage and in high hopes, ran the clips
but alas no improvement whatever. So now we know it is not
a FAT32/filesize issue.
Click to expand...

If your system is already under strain because of its capabilities, saving to
4Kb chunks will cause data transfer rate problems resulting (worst case) in the
drives "write behind" failing.
I could try again with the quality set to "best for
computer playback" rather than DV-AVI which I have used on
the two previous attempts - any point in this?
Click to expand...

Well yes. If it comes out the way you would want it you will have immediately
identified the issue. That issue will be a bottle neck in the data stream
caused by one or more of slow cpu or slow mother board or slow hard drive.
FYI I have approx 30 collections and 20 edited projects.
Except for two (this and one previous one) they have all
been absolutely fine. They were about equally split, some
on C: (NTFS), some on D: was FAT32. This is the first
wobble MM2 has ever given me. The only other bad capture
was of a similar size (30+ mins) and also saved to D.
Click to expand...

Its beginningto sound as though the D drive is the issue.
To answer yr specific queries:
No, I was not using a file size manager prog.
Rather than scrambled I should better have said seriously
jerky. It is absolutely great on playback in the camera
(Sony TRV-30) so I'm pretty happy that the original
footage is good.
Used Firewire as in all previous captures. Only use USB
for uploading stills from camera.
Defrag doesn't seem an issue as I still have the prob now,
after re-formatting. (Full, not just Quick).
CPU = Intel 2.8, RAM = 1 GB DDR. OS = XP Pro SP1.
Re HDD mode, in Primary IDE Channel Properties device 0
Transfer Mode is "DMA if available" and Current Mode
is "Ultra DMA Mode 2". Device 1 is "DMA if available" but
Current Mode is PIO. ***Is this my problem?***** How do I
Click to expand...

BINGO ! DMA mode 2 is real slow and PIO, well we still had steam engines then
:) Actually we still do here.

Anyway....If you have a hard drive sharing a Bus port with a slower device, the
hard drive will always run at the slower speed. My solution is this....

Drive C & D share a cable on the primary port (Mode 5)
Drive E has its own plug in EIDE card (Mode 6)
Drive F (DVD re-writer) and Drive D (CD-Re-Writer) use the same cable to the
mother boards secondary port
force DMA on device 1, drive D:, the baddie?
Re "Data Write Behind" available and enabled, you've got
me there...dunno...how to check, plse?
Click to expand...

Start > Control Panel > System > Device Manager > Disk Drives and then right
click each of the drives and select Drive Policies and then ensure that Write
Caching is selected. Write Caching is another way of saying Write Behind.
Re needing 32 bit data tfr mode...likewise...where to set?
Click to expand...

Its in the properties for the hard drive ....

Re-Boot your computer and using whichever key (Del on mine) enter the System
Bios Editor. Quite often the part you will be looking for will be on the top
right of the screen and it will have a title similar to "Basic System
Configuration" What you will probably find in there is the options for drive C
and D will be set to Auto...DO NOT CHANGE THAT if that's what it is set
at....however, select the word auto and press enter...Assuming it was set to
auto you will now see a screen with almost everything disabled...you wont be
able to edit it...but you should have access to one option DATA TRANSFER MODE
and dependent on the wording in your BIOS you will need to ensure that it uses
the best possible and unless you have a 64bit machine you need to set it at
32bit (or if you are really flash and have a 64bit machine.....set it to 64)
Re other progs running, no, I always keep the sys
absolutely clear, no 'net connection, usually reboot
before capture too, just to flush out. And I even bar the
Mrs from Freecell.
Click to expand...

Love it!!! I really must give my wife a password one of these
days.........Nahhhh forget it :)
John, really admire the attitude and help that you and
PapaJohn put into all our MM2 issues. And of course, hope
this one gets resolved. MANY thanks. :):)
Click to expand...

Your welcome from all of us!!
 
John, it's not just Bingo, but Eureka and QED too, all in
one.
I found in the BIOS setup that primary drive 1 (D)
was "off". How did it manage to work at all?! I re-set it
to Auto and rebooted. Now both drives show current mode
Ultra DMA Mode 5. Bye bye PIO. Revisited the previously
jerky clips, they actually ran at slightly overspeed now.
So re-captured off the camera again, absolutely PURRFECT.
And (naturally enough I suppose) the whole drive response
is transformed. When I opened a Collection previously, the
clip thumbnails took for ever to populate. Now it is
instantaneous, even on a biggish piece of capture. Also,
as the C drive shares a cable with D on Cable Select, I
suspect this was being dragged down to the lower
performance drive, so it too is really flying now. Before,
the "importing files" process after capture took 15 mins
or so for the 33 mins footage. This time, it was under 3
mins.
I mention all this to underline (as if you didn't already
know, sorry, but others might find it helpful) just how
critical the DMA and transfer mode settings are.
Right...now I can get on with editing that piece...
Can't thank u enough!
CW :)))
-----Original Message-----
Hi there,

For storage of large files you must format with 64Kb "chunks" :) It means more
efficient data transfer and less wasted hard drive space.

If your system is already under strain because of its capabilities, saving to
4Kb chunks will cause data transfer rate problems resulting (worst case) in the
drives "write behind" failing.


Well yes. If it comes out the way you would want it you will have immediately
identified the issue. That issue will be a bottle neck in the data stream
caused by one or more of slow cpu or slow mother board or slow hard drive.


Its beginningto sound as though the D drive is the issue. do I

BINGO ! DMA mode 2 is real slow and PIO, well we still had steam engines then
:) Actually we still do here.

Anyway....If you have a hard drive sharing a Bus port with a slower device, the
hard drive will always run at the slower speed. My solution is this....

Drive C & D share a cable on the primary port (Mode 5)
Drive E has its own plug in EIDE card (Mode 6)
Drive F (DVD re-writer) and Drive D (CD-Re-Writer) use the same cable to the
mother boards secondary port


Start > Control Panel > System > Device Manager > Disk Drives and then right
click each of the drives and select Drive Policies and then ensure that Write
Caching is selected. Write Caching is another way of saying Write Behind.
set?

Its in the properties for the hard drive ....

Re-Boot your computer and using whichever key (Del on mine) enter the System
Bios Editor. Quite often the part you will be looking for will be on the top
right of the screen and it will have a title similar to "Basic System
Configuration" What you will probably find in
Click to expand...
there is the options for drive C
and D will be set to Auto...DO NOT CHANGE THAT if that's what it is set
at....however, select the word auto and press enter...Assuming it was set to
auto you will now see a screen with almost
Click to expand...
everything disabled...you wont be
Click to expand...
 
Hi there,

Pleased it all worked out. I have to admit that I had assumed that both drives
were recognised as being present. As we now know they were recognised by
windows but that is not the same as the EIDE seeing them correctly...its quite
remarkable really, still glad its sorted out.

At the moment I am in between phone calls trying to talk my oldest son out of
spending thousands of pounds on a wide plasma screen and super fast computer
done up in the windows media centre style, very nice, but silly money...ho hum
:)
 
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