first build

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Kaz

I am in the market for a new PC and was wondering if building it myself was
a good idea it would be my first build how difficult is it ????
any recommendations weather to buy a bare bone system or case/motherboard ?
any help appreciated how would i know if the parts would be conpatable



I was looking at the following:
Asus Terminator bare bones
Athelon xp2400
kingston 256mb ramDDR
Maxton 80gb or 120 gb

Does this sound ok ??? what would you change or add ???
 
Kaz said:
I am in the market for a new PC and was wondering if building it myself was
a good idea it would be my first build how difficult is it ????
any recommendations weather to buy a bare bone system or case/motherboard ?
any help appreciated how would i know if the parts would be conpatable



I was looking at the following:
Asus Terminator bare bones
Athelon xp2400
kingston 256mb ramDDR
Maxton 80gb or 120 gb

Does this sound ok ??? what would you change or add ???
Click to expand...

What os? if XP I would double the RAM to 512MB.

What do you plan on using the computer for mostly?
I personally would get an MB that doesn't have integrated
graphics and add my own. But if all your going to do is
surf the internet and not play 3D games, the built-in graphics
are fine.
 
Kaz said:
I am in the market for a new PC and was wondering if building it myself was
a good idea it would be my first build how difficult is it ????
any recommendations weather to buy a bare bone system or case/motherboard ?
any help appreciated how would i know if the parts would be conpatable



I was looking at the following:
Asus Terminator bare bones
Athelon xp2400
kingston 256mb ramDDR
Maxton 80gb or 120 gb

Does this sound ok ??? what would you change or add ???
Click to expand...
 
I am in the market for a new PC and was wondering if building it myself
was
a good idea it would be my first build how difficult is it ????
Click to expand...

It's not difficult, but it can be tricky. If you've never upgraded a hard
disk, installed an OS from scratch, or installed extra memory in a system
before, then I'd caution you to get some help. You need to take your time,
do a lot of reading, and ask a lot of questions. Don't rely on any one
source for information as there is a lot of crap out there, but if you get
guidance from several sources, you'll quickly get an idea what is right or
wrong.

There are a lot of sites on the net that can help. Some will make
recommendations of compatible components that will make the research easier.
It is important to get good data about what works with what - memory, hard
disk interfaces, graphics cards, etc. If you can follow someone else's
template, you'll avoid issues, but most stuff plays together pretty well if
you avoid the big snafus (like getting a SATA hard disk for a mobo that
doesn't support it).

I like the technique of slowly building up a system on a workbench,
piece-by-piece rather than throwing it all together in the case and hoping
it all runs when you boot. Most boards have good diagnostics, so you can
start by just powering the mobo with nothing attached and seeing if it gives
the correct diagnostic. Then add CPU, memory, etc. going step-by-step on
thing at a time. Don't work under a deadline, take your time.

If you have a good retailer nearby (e.g. Frys), I'd buy over the counter
rather than mail-order unless you have unlimited time. I've had good luck
with RMA'ing stuff back to the mfg, but the turnaround is lengthy.

You also need to have reasonable expectations. You won't save any money nor
get any extra performance for your money (compared to a Dell for example)
if you have to buy everything (case, keyboard, mouse, OS, etc.), but you
will have a system that you know the ins/outs of and you'll know all the
components, where the drivers came from, have a boxed retail OS rather than
an OEM version, etc. I think the real beauty of "build you own" comes when
you build up a "library" of spare parts and can keep your system current by
upgrading a component or two, rather than starting from scratch each time.
For example, I'm now building a Linux box with a Pentium 133 spare parts
canabalized from an old system with a few new parts thrown in.

In summary, if the goal is to learn and have fun, its worth it. If the goal
is to quickly get the cheapest system put together so you can go on and do
other things with your time, get a Dell.

- Mark
 
Building a PC is NOT difficult, it is not like you have to stuff components or
solder and then troubleshoot things, HOWEVER, the price of prebuilt machines
have become so low that for a given speed and performance level there is little
to no advantage economically these days. In fact, it will probably cost you
more to build a machine from scratch yourself. There used to be a significant
cost advantage to building your own machine. The real advantage to buiding your
own machine is that it permits you to handpick everything yourself. You can
pick the MOBO, case and all the components that you want. Of course there is no
protection that the finished product will be reasonably bug free but you get
little in that way with a built machine too. As a hobbyist I like building my
own machine and once you have a machine built upgrading is usually cheaper than
buying a whole new machine. For most people these days who are NOT hobbyists I
simply recommend a Dell machine. IT saves you the cost and time of making
everything work. This is of course a very personal decision. Good Luck

--Nat
 
AxeClinton said:
Building a PC is NOT difficult, it is not like you have to stuff components or
solder and then troubleshoot things, HOWEVER, the price of prebuilt machines
have become so low that for a given speed and performance level there is little
to no advantage economically these days. In fact, it will probably cost you
more to build a machine from scratch yourself. There used to be a significant
cost advantage to building your own machine. The real advantage to buiding your
own machine is that it permits you to handpick everything yourself. You can
pick the MOBO, case and all the components that you want. Of course there is no
protection that the finished product will be reasonably bug free but you get
little in that way with a built machine too. As a hobbyist I like building my
own machine and once you have a machine built upgrading is usually cheaper than
buying a whole new machine. For most people these days who are NOT hobbyists I
simply recommend a Dell machine. IT saves you the cost and time of making
everything work. This is of course a very personal decision. Good Luck

--Nat
Click to expand...

I was sceptical of your advice, considering your posting from an aol
account, but of course you confirmed my suspicion when you recommended a
dell.
 
Kaz said:
I am in the market for a new PC and was wondering if building it myself was
a good idea it would be my first build how difficult is it ????
any recommendations weather to buy a bare bone system or case/motherboard ?
any help appreciated how would i know if the parts would be conpatable

I was looking at the following:
Asus Terminator bare bones
Athelon xp2400
kingston 256mb ramDDR
Maxton 80gb or 120 gb

Does this sound ok ??? what would you change or add ???
Click to expand...

tell us your main use for the pc, and how much you want to spend roughly.
it appears the terminator only supports up to xp1800

which exact model/board are you looking for
 
Kaz said:
a good idea it would be my first build how difficult is it ????
any recommendations weather to buy a bare bone system or case/motherboard ?
any help appreciated how would i know if the parts would be conpatable

I was looking at the following:
Asus Terminator bare bones
Athelon xp2400
kingston 256mb ramDDR
Maxton 80gb or 120 gb

Does this sound ok ??? what would you change or add ???
Click to expand...

It's a nice looking little unit, but I wouldn't go for it, myself.

The 165W power supply on the unit I saw is IMO grossly inadequate.
It showed a 2200+ as the high limit, but I would say that was pushing
it. The motherboard is far from state-of-the-art, and has no AGP slot.
Integrated graphics may be fine for you, but if it's not, it's nice to have
that AGP slot.

If you can put-in a hard drive, you can put in a cdrom and a floppy drive.
The Asus motherboard manuals are very comprehensive. You can
download one and read it, and even if you buy another brand, it would be
beneficial. If you can spend a little more, I believe you can build
something a lot better that will satisfy you longer.
 
case/motherboard
Click to expand...

I used to build my own after researching parts and ordering from various
suppliers to get the best price.
Then one day I decided that my time could be better spend setting the unit
up the way I want without actually building it from scratch.So I make a list
of all the parts I want...case/PSU/CPU/MOBO/RAM/etc etc ...and I put this
list out for bids at various respectable computer parts/builder
stores...online and in person.They are all bidding on the same
pieces...assembled and tested.The lowest bid wins!!
Now I can spend more time "tinkering" with the unit and I have a guarantee
of anywhere from 6 months to a year of tech support if i really screw up.
After looking at prices of Parts versus the build I have at the most paid
$50.00 for their labor.
I receive all of the manuals and CD/drivers as if I had purchased the parts
and build it myself.
just my 2 cents
peter
 
"Fishface" said:
It's a nice looking little unit, but I wouldn't go for it, myself.

The 165W power supply on the unit I saw is IMO grossly inadequate.
It showed a 2200+ as the high limit, but I would say that was pushing
it. The motherboard is far from state-of-the-art, and has no AGP slot.
Integrated graphics may be fine for you, but if it's not, it's nice to have
that AGP slot.

If you can put-in a hard drive, you can put in a cdrom and a floppy drive.
The Asus motherboard manuals are very comprehensive. You can
download one and read it, and even if you buy another brand, it would be
beneficial. If you can spend a little more, I believe you can build
something a lot better that will satisfy you longer.
Click to expand...

I'm currently investigating building a machine based on the Asus
Terminator (for someone else). There are at least four different
models, and the latest one, the P4 533A model, has one AGP slot
and one PCI slot. My hope is by using this platform, I'll have
some upgrade options.

Using a system like this as your first build will be a little
challenging. This system is "constrained", in that there are space
limits, performance limits, and as Fishface has noted above, the
internal power supply is also limited.

If you start with a desktop case or a tower, there are many more
motherboards you can buy. If you have problems with the motherboard,
it can be returned to your retailer separate from the rest of the
stuff. You could put a microATX or a regular ATX board in it, buy
as big a power supply as you want or can afford, and so on. There
are less things to worry about by going this way.

With the Terminator, you should really plan the power consumption
first, to see what can fit in the box without overloading the
power supply. You also have to think about cooling, as if you put
a lot of hot stuff in it, the fans will have to be worked hard to
keep the case temperature down. Everything in the box can take the
heat except the hard drive, and that is why I recommend doing some
planning.

I was looking for an alternative heatsink for the processor, and
the retail HSF with an Intel processor is one of the few that will
fit without issues. I tried to imagine fitting others, like a
Zalman CNPS7000 or the like, but the ones I've examined either
overhang or bump into the AGP slot or DIMM slots and so on. I'm
trying to find a HSF that uses screw for mounting, so that if the
unit is shipped or moved, a heavy heatsink won't fall off. The
end user for this machine is not technically savvy, and won't think
about issues like this.

So far, I've spent about two weeks of spare time, just reading
reviews and specs for the various components, so there won't be
any surprises. My objective is to build an email/surfing/DVD player
into the box, with a low noise level and low temperature inside
the case. First I'll be testing the performance with only the
built-in graphics support, and if the chipset actually has
motion compensation/DVD playback acceleration that works with
DVD playback software, then a separate AGP card won't be required.
Otherwise, I'll need to stick a low profile MX440 or an FX5200
in it, so the processing load won't be too high while playing DVDs.

HTH,
Paul
 
Gee that's sweet. I use AOL for most of my email , it costs me a whole
$8.00/month on a salvage account. If you prefer your may email me at
(e-mail address removed), perhaps that will impress you more! I chose to avoid outlook for
obvious reasons. In the future I will know not to address any of you inquiries,
sheesssh is everyone in here so stuck up?
 
Kaz said:
I am in the market for a new PC and was wondering if building it myself was
a good idea it would be my first build how difficult is it ????
any recommendations weather to buy a bare bone system or case/motherboard ?
any help appreciated how would i know if the parts would be conpatable



I was looking at the following:
Asus Terminator bare bones
Athelon xp2400
kingston 256mb ramDDR
Maxton 80gb or 120 gb

Does this sound ok ??? what would you change or add ???
Click to expand...

Forget it, built one last year for friend who ordered the parts,
can't work on them, too cramped, tiny power supply that cools the case!
Prone to overheat bad!!!!
Bad design! Get a regular case!
 
BoB said:
Fans???????????
The terminator box I did had no such provision, for case fans!
Click to expand...

The manual I've downloaded shows a fan in the back of the case. It is
hard to tell whether the power supply has a fan. The power supply butts
up against the front of the chassis, below the drives. There are grill
holes there, so I think airflow is from back to front, with the power
supply being last in the air flow chain. The power supply looks to be
smaller than a SFX I was shopping for, so it might be hard to find
a more powerful replacement for it. The Northbridge heatsink looks
to be inadequate, assuming the Northbridge graphics engine is being
used - I plan on replacing the heatsink with a larger passive
if I can. I'll do a quick "finger check" on the Northbridge heatsink
before going to the trouble of replacing it.

The reason I selected this design.

1) Horizontal mounting for a standard CDRW drive.
2) Wide enough for stable upright position (Pundit would fall over)
3) AGP slot (P4 533A model only)
4) Floppy drive (yeah, everyone will say why bother...)

Negatives:

1) SIS chipset. With the use of an AGP slot, an 865PE would
be a nicer choice. Of course that chip would get quite hot
in the small enclosure. SIS is quite pervasive in the non-mainstream
market, and as near as I can tell 650/651/962/963 must be working,
because there are few complaints.
2) Questionable +3.3V/+5V power supply rating. These rails are hard
to estimate, as the motherboard chipset power consumption is
unknown. Presumably the only +5V consumption in the system will
be whatever PCI card gets plugged in, and maybe the USB related
stuff.

With the power supply, the real question will be whether there is
enough +3.3V and +5V. Many other SFX supplies have about the same
+12V rating, but more +3.3V and +5V current.

Paul
 
I just built my first computer. It didn't take too long, and I don't know
much about them. And, I probably have more enjoyment from it knowing I did
it myself. It's pretty cool too, I used an all clear acrilic case. I have
a couple of lights on it (LED fan on the power supply, and a IDE cable for
CD-ROMs with a EL cable in it), and looking for more goodies to put on it.
I bet I spend another hundred bucks just getting new LED fans, ext. Don't
go with a red cold cathode!!! I bought five of these things (fans with cold
cathodes on them), only hooked one up, and it looks PINK!!! LOL Anyway,
it's a lot of fun knowing you did it yourself.

See ya,
Craig

P.S. Looking for a PINK cold cathode fan? Check Ebay, because now I'm
going to have to unload these things!!!
 
The manual I've downloaded shows a fan in the back of the case. It is
hard to tell whether the power supply has a fan. The power supply butts
up against the front of the chassis, below the drives. There are grill
holes there, so I think airflow is from back to front, with the power
supply being last in the air flow chain. The power supply looks to be
smaller than a SFX I was shopping for, so it might be hard to find
a more powerful replacement for it. The Northbridge heatsink looks
to be inadequate, assuming the Northbridge graphics engine is being
used - I plan on replacing the heatsink with a larger passive
if I can. I'll do a quick "finger check" on the Northbridge heatsink
before going to the trouble of replacing it.

The reason I selected this design.

1) Horizontal mounting for a standard CDRW drive.
2) Wide enough for stable upright position (Pundit would fall over)
3) AGP slot (P4 533A model only)
4) Floppy drive (yeah, everyone will say why bother...)

Negatives:

1) SIS chipset. With the use of an AGP slot, an 865PE would
be a nicer choice. Of course that chip would get quite hot
in the small enclosure. SIS is quite pervasive in the non-mainstream
market, and as near as I can tell 650/651/962/963 must be working,
because there are few complaints.
2) Questionable +3.3V/+5V power supply rating. These rails are hard
to estimate, as the motherboard chipset power consumption is
unknown. Presumably the only +5V consumption in the system will
be whatever PCI card gets plugged in, and maybe the USB related
stuff.

With the power supply, the real question will be whether there is
enough +3.3V and +5V. Many other SFX supplies have about the same
+12V rating, but more +3.3V and +5V current.

Paul
Click to expand...

A postscript... Oh, the curse of living in Canada ! I finished my
shopping list and discovered that Newegg doesn't ship to Canada.
The Terminator is sold by Googlegear (Zipzoomfly) for $175 USD, but
they want $126 USD more to ship to Canada. When I phoned up to ask
whether the shipping fee could possibly be correct, the helpful
person on the other end of the line basically said "take it or
leave it". I don't know if that fee includes Canadian taxes or not.

Looks like I'll be shopping for a Shuttle. It seems the Terminator
P4 533A is now discontinued (other vendors have that suspicious
"back ordered" status, which means they won't be getting any more),
so whatever stock you can find will be it. Asus has moved onto
some other concept - Digimatrix "stereo system" - with SIS651/962L
chipset.

Paul
 
Your spelling and use of 256 meg of memory suggest to me that you are
very inexperienced.

The situation is that it's easy if you do it right the first time, but
if you do anything wrong you will have a VERY difficult time
troubleshooting it yourself. I'd say that about 40% of newly built PCs
don't "POST" the very first time that you attempt to turn them on, for
one reason or another. For inexperienced builders, the percentage may
be more like 80%. The problems are usually simple, but sometimes VERY
complex. However, a novice often can't resolve even the simple problems.

I think that my recommendation would be not to do it unless you at least
have access to LOCAL assistance if you try to turn it on and it does not
POST (or does not even turn on at all).

Also, while most problems are simple, there is a chance of doing
something wrong that will destroy something "expensive", like the CPU or
motherboard. I'm talking little things like improperly mounting a
heatsink, or not knowing to remove a protective film over a heat
transfer pad, or, conversely, removing such a pad itself thinking that
IT is a protective film.
 
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