Filesystem for a Time Capsule

  • Thread starter Thread starter Justin
  • Start date Start date
J

Justin

No, not Apple Time Machine, but an actual time capsule.
I have been asked to put together an external USB hard drive; format it
and put a bunch of pictures, videos - you name it on there.
It, along with other trinkets will be sealed in a container and buried.
At first I was thinking ext4 since it is non proprietary. Or ext2 for
the same reason and the fact it is non-journaling.
NTFS? Maybe but I don't know what form M$ will be in circa 2110.
Fat16/32 - out of the question since some files will be bigger than 4GB.
What about fat64/exFAT? Is there a utility to format a *hard drive* to
fat64?
I'm not even considering Apple's HFS+.

Since most of us (myself included) won't be around when this thing is
opened this is more of a thought exercise than actual task.
 
You could make a volume of each file system, with duplicate data, in an
extended partition. Best to bury two duplicate drives, maybe of
different brands. Maybe they should be hermetically sealed? Include some
DVD's in case the hard drives lock up? How about some SSD's?
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Ah, this one is easy. Since your hdd has about a 30 year
(both hardware and interface availability) survival time,
use anything currently supported by a Linux kernel.

If you want pictures, documents, etc. to survive, use
a high-quality paper and high-quality one sided b/w laser
printing. This can reasonably be expected to survive
several hundred years when kept dry.

Bottom line: Wrong approach. BTW, a SLC (!) FLASH drive
gives you 10-20 years data retention. Better are MOD
(> 50 years, but drives may be a problem) and archival
tape. I do't think there is any digital storage medium
around at this time, that is suitable for a time capsule.

Arno
 
How much data is there? You could use SSD's.
Click to expand...

SSDs are absolutely terrible for long-term storage.
The cells _will_ loose their charge. With SLCs you
should get something like 20 years, but it already is
a stretch. MLCs are more in the <5 year data retention
range. I had one quality USB stick by PQI that gave
be random reads after a year. After formatting it
worked fine again, but I strongly advise to not
use SSD/FLASH for long-term storage.

Arno
 
Arno said:
Ah, this one is easy. Since your hdd has about a 30 year
(both hardware and interface availability) survival time,
use anything currently supported by a Linux kernel.

If you want pictures, documents, etc. to survive, use
a high-quality paper and high-quality one sided b/w laser
printing. This can reasonably be expected to survive
several hundred years when kept dry.

Bottom line: Wrong approach. BTW, a SLC (!) FLASH drive
gives you 10-20 years data retention. Better are MOD
(> 50 years, but drives may be a problem) and archival
tape. I do't think there is any digital storage medium
around at this time, that is suitable for a time capsule.
Click to expand...

Not a substitute for printed paper, but how about one of the oldest
recordable optical mediums, Plasmon WORM disks?
 
Not a substitute for printed paper, but how about one of the oldest
recordable optical mediums, Plasmon WORM disks?
Click to expand...

Same problem as MOD: Drive availability is unlikely. Keep
in mind that the drives only keep so long (<10 years even
in storage typically) so they only stay available if they
are manufactured.

Even if it has to be digital data, paper is the best bet today.
What is done in practive is to keep the data on disk or take and
to copy it every few years to newr technology.

Arno
 
I have been asked to put together an external USB hard drive; format it
and put a bunch of pictures, videos - you name it on there.
It, along with other trinkets will be sealed in a container and buried.
Click to expand...

FAT, NTFS & ext2 are possibly the safest bets.
Since most of us (myself included) won't be around when this thing is
opened this is more of a thought exercise than actual task.
Click to expand...

To extend your experiment, use more existing digital media like
DVD-recordable, USB flash drive, ....

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Justin said:
No, not Apple Time Machine, but an actual time capsule.
I have been asked to put together an external USB hard drive; format
it and put a bunch of pictures, videos - you name it on there.
It, along with other trinkets will be sealed in a container and buried.
Click to expand...

I'd go FAT32 as long as the videos arent too big to fit on that.

Even if they are, I'd split those that are.
At first I was thinking ext4 since it is non proprietary. Or
ext2 for the same reason and the fact it is non-journaling.
Click to expand...

Too likely that they will be long gone by the time someone wasnt to read the stick.
NTFS? Maybe but I don't know what form M$ will be in circa 2110.
Click to expand...
Fat16/32 - out of the question since some files will be bigger than 4GB.
Click to expand...

Just split the ones that are too big. It will be obvious that
you have done that if the file names are chosen properly.
What about fat64/exFAT?
Click to expand...

No guarantee that it will survive for as long as you need.
 
I'd go FAT32 as long as the videos arent too big to fit on that.

Even if they are, I'd split those that are.


Too likely that they will be long gone by the time someone wasnt to read the stick.


Just split the ones that are too big. It will be obvious that
you have done that if the file names are chosen properly.


No guarantee that it will survive for as long as you need.




- Show quoted text -
Click to expand...

I would not worry to much about file system as long as the files are
sequential, and not compressed.

I would also possible make sure that file structure was RAW., JPEG
will be about for a long time, but maybe not more than 50 years.

I would worry more about being able to read USB-2 in 100 years times.
It is currently difficult to find hardware to interface to 20 year old
hard drives. USB wil be fine for the next 20-30 years, but I am not
sure how much longer.

Michael
www.cnwrecovery.com
 
(e-mail address removed) wrote
I would not worry to much about file system as long
as the files are sequential, and not compressed.
Click to expand...

Makes more sense to use FAT32 and ensure the files are sequential.

That way if FAT32 is still around, and it should be, it can be used and the
stick accessed independantly of the file system if it is no longer used much.
I would also possible make sure that file structure was RAW., JPEG
will be about for a long time, but maybe not more than 50 years.
Click to expand...

I'd include the specs for JPEG in a simple text file.
Mainly because the file sizes are so much better.
I would worry more about being able to read USB-2 in 100 years times.
It is currently difficult to find hardware to interface to 20 year old hard drives.
Click to expand...

But easy enough with LP records and what was used before that.
USB wil be fine for the next 20-30 years, but I am not sure how much longer.
Click to expand...

That's true of any electronic format.

The only real alternative is a non electronic format and has
some real downsides of its own with videos and audio files.
 
(e-mail address removed) wrote
That's true of any electronic format.

The only real alternative is a non electronic format and has some real
downsides of its own with videos and audio files.
Click to expand...

I have done some research and discussed this issue with my old boss from
college.
Back in 2005, we came across some old, old IBM PC Jrs with 5 or so MB
hard drives. We were able to read the data off them with no problems.
The drives were dates 1981 to 1983.
Right now I'm thinking ext2 - the drive will be labeled on the outside
with the type of filesystem.
If anything it should give computer science students in 100 years a good
exercise in data recovery.
 
Right now I'm thinking ext2 - the drive will be labeled on the outside
with the type of filesystem.
If anything it should give computer science students in 100 years a good
exercise in data recovery.
Click to expand...

Might as well do a partition each of common file systems. Set one as the
active one.

Maybe include a laptop to use to read it. Maybe they will still have the
same line current.
--
Ed Light

Better World News TV Channel:
http://realnews.com

Iraq Veterans Against the War and Related:
http://ivaw.org
http://couragetoresist.org
http://antiwar.com

Send spam to the FTC at
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks, robots.
 
Justin said:
Rod Speed wrote
Click to expand...
I have done some research and discussed this issue with my old boss from college.
Click to expand...
Back in 2005, we came across some old, old IBM PC Jrs with 5 or so MB
hard drives. We were able to read the data off them with no problems.
The drives were dates 1981 to 1983.
Click to expand...

It wouldnt have been that easy with some older drives.
Right now I'm thinking ext2
Click to expand...

Makes more sense to have more than one, say FAT32 and ext2.
- the drive will be labeled on the outside with the type of filesystem.
Click to expand...
If anything it should give computer science students in 100 years a good exercise in data recovery.
Click to expand...

There should still be the equivalent of wikipedia etc around.
 
Did you read these drives in the IBM PC, or did you find an interface
to read them on a current PC?

One solution may be to put a complete memory and reader in your time
capsule. All you will need then is a clear indicator of what voltage
should be applied where. I will personally you drink if if 5V, or 9
volts can not be found somewhere, this is asssuming my credit card
still works.

Michael
 
Did you read these drives in the IBM PC, or did you find an interface to
read them on a current PC?

One solution may be to put a complete memory and reader in your time
capsule. All you will need then is a clear indicator of what voltage
should be applied where. I will personally you drink if if 5V, or 9
volts can not be found somewhere, this is asssuming my credit card still
works.

Michael
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how he did it. When I was there he booted the PCs and used
a serial connection to transfer the files off. Apparently students back
in the early 1980's saved their work on the hard drives of those PCs even
though they weren't supposed to. It was interesting reading papers dates
1983.
I know they contacted a few of the writers via the alumni association and
printed an article in the college newspaper about it.
 
I'm not sure how he did it.  When I was there he booted the PCs and used
a serial connection to transfer the files off.  Apparently students back
in the early 1980's saved their work on the hard drives of those PCs even
though they weren't supposed to.  It was interesting reading papers dates
1983.
I know they contacted a few of the writers via the alumni association and
printed an article in the college newspaper about it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Click to expand...

So you used the original hardware, and not just the hard drive as an
external device.

Michael
www.cnwrecovery.com
 
Rod said:
(e-mail address removed) wrote


Makes more sense to use FAT32 and ensure the files are sequential.
Click to expand...

Why not simply place a netbook, in the capsule?
That way if FAT32 is still around, and it should be, it can be used and the
stick accessed independantly of the file system if it is no longer used much.


I'd include the specs for JPEG in a simple text file.
Mainly because the file sizes are so much better.
Click to expand...

Furthermore, each digital camera manufacturer has its own proprietary
RAW format.
But easy enough with LP records and what was used before that.


That's true of any electronic format.

The only real alternative is a non electronic format and has
some real downsides of its own with videos and audio files.
Click to expand...

Such long-term archival storage issues are always fraught with peril,
alas.
 
John Turco wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Click to expand...
Why not simply place a netbook, in the capsule?
Click to expand...

I doubt they would be able to work out how to use it 100 years from now.

Bet you wouldnt be able to work out how to use a boot rom PDP11 if
I had included one of those in a time capsule, even only 20 years later.
Furthermore, each digital camera manufacturer has its own proprietary RAW format.
Indeed.
Click to expand...
Such long-term archival storage issues are always fraught with peril, alas.
Click to expand...

Yeah, even chiselled stone and clay tablets turned out to have real problems.
 
John Turco wrote






I doubt they would be able to work out how to use it 100 years from now.

Bet you wouldnt be able to work out how to use a boot rom PDP11 if
I had included one of those in a time capsule, even only 20 years later.


Yeah, even chiselled stone and clay tablets turned out to have real problems.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Click to expand...

By RAW format I really meant just a bitmap, without compression. A
BMP only has a short header followed by normally 3 bytes per pixel.
No compression is important.

Agreed, camera 'RAW' covers an enourmous range of non standards.

Michael
 
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