(fast) USB HD for laptop?

[brett]

My laptop has a 4200 RPM HD. I was thinking about getting a USB
5400RPM HD:
http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=261. I
could move applications to the USB drive and leave the primary for the
OS. Will the USB drive perform better than my current HD or will it
actually be slower because of USB?

Thanks,
Brett

 

[Rod Speed]

My laptop has a 4200 RPM HD.
I was thinking about getting a USB 5400RPM HD:
http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=261.
I could move applications to the USB drive

Depends on what the laptop can do.

and leave the primary for the OS.
Will the USB drive perform better than my current HD
Nope.

or will it actually be slower because of USB?

A bit slower, because of the USB.

Most apps use doesnt really depend that much on the speed
of the drive tho as far as where the app itself is stored.

You may get a rather better result with more ram speed
wise, obviously depending on how much its currently got.
Plenty of laptops tend to be a bit low on physical memory.

 

[Arno Wagner]

My laptop has a 4200 RPM HD. I was thinking about getting a USB
5400RPM HD:
http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=261. I
could move applications to the USB drive and leave the primary for the
OS. Will the USB drive perform better than my current HD or will it
actually be slower because of USB?

USB performance is often not too good with regard to throughput.
A 5400 rpm drive will also have relatively bad latency. I would
expect this will be slower. Better get a newer, larger 5400 RPM
HDD for the laptop. I woul not advise getting a 7200 RPM one, unless
you are sure the laptop cools the HDD well enough.

Arno

 

[brett]

Thanks. I hadn't thought about the laptop getting hot from using a
higher RPM internal drive. My current HP laptop is 2.5 years old. I'll
be getting a new laptop next year. The one I have in mind list
several HD options:

- 80GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
FREE Upgrade to 100GB 5400 RPM SATA Hard Drive!!
- 120GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
- 100GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive
- 160GB 5400RPM SATA Dual Hard Drive (80GB x 2)
- 200GB 5400RPM SATA Dual Hard Drive (100GB x 2)
- 240GB 5400RPM SATA Dual Hard Drive (120GB x 2)

I'm planning to get the 7200 RPM option. Do you think the laptop can
get too hot using the 7200 or should it be designed to handle it fine?
Would going with two 5400 drives be better since I can have the OS one
one drive and apps on another? I also wonder about cooling with two
drives vs. one 7200.

I will also be getting a desktop and add a 10,000RPM Raptor:
http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=190.
There aren't any specifics about motherboards on HP's website. I'll
need to contact them to make sure it uses a compatible chipset. If the
drive is compatible, do you forsee any problems in using this specific
drive? This will be a Vista machine.

Thanks,
Brett

 

[Arno Wagner]

Thanks. I hadn't thought about the laptop getting hot from using a
higher RPM internal drive. My current HP laptop is 2.5 years old. I'll
be getting a new laptop next year. The one I have in mind list
several HD options:

- 80GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
FREE Upgrade to 100GB 5400 RPM SATA Hard Drive!!
- 120GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
- 100GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive
- 160GB 5400RPM SATA Dual Hard Drive (80GB x 2)
- 200GB 5400RPM SATA Dual Hard Drive (100GB x 2)
- 240GB 5400RPM SATA Dual Hard Drive (120GB x 2)

I'm planning to get the 7200 RPM option. Do you think the laptop can
get too hot using the 7200 or should it be designed to handle it fine?

It should. But cooling is one of the most problematic design issues
in a laptop and often it is solved quite badly. Best make sure
you get a 3 year warranty and have cuurent backups....

Would going with two 5400 drives be better since I can have the OS one
one drive and apps on another? I also wonder about cooling with two
drives vs. one 7200.

I thinsk the two-drive option is for RAID1.

I will also be getting a desktop and add a 10,000RPM Raptor:
http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=190.

THe poor-mans SCSI disk. Or so WD thinks. Isn't it funny that WD,
of all the disk manufaturers, never reached the reliability
and performance to get into the SCSI market?

There aren't any specifics about motherboards on HP's website. I'll
need to contact them to make sure it uses a compatible chipset. If the
drive is compatible, do you forsee any problems in using this specific
drive? This will be a Vista machine.

Depends. The interface will moist likely not be a problem.
But Raptors may run hot and lound. You might want to look into that.

Arno

 

[brett]

Would going with two 5400 drives be better since I can have the OS one

I thinsk the two-drive option is for RAID1.

These laptop are for the home. I don't think they are using RAID1.
The description for each dual hard drive is:

Imagine the capacity and speed you can have with the 160 GB 5400 RPM
Dual Hard Drive! This dual hard drive provides storage capacities not
commonly available on notebook PCs. The more GB on your hard drive, the
more applications and files you can store. The faster the rpm on your
hard drive, the more quickly you can boot up and the faster you can
load your favorite software. (1GB = 1 billion bytes. Actual formatted
capacity is less. Up to 8GB of the hard drive is reserved for the
system recovery software for use with Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home
and Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Professional. Up to 12GB of the hard
drive is reserved for the system recovery software for use with
Microsoft(R) Windows(R) Media Center Edition.)

If the additional drive is just a regular HD setup, do you think that
works better than one 7200 drive?

Maybe for the desktop, staying at 7200 is better than the Raptor. 7200
is good.

Thanks,
Brett

 

[Arno Wagner]

These laptop are for the home. I don't think they are using RAID1.
The description for each dual hard drive is:

Imagine the capacity and speed you can have with the 160 GB 5400 RPM
Dual Hard Drive! This dual hard drive provides storage capacities not
commonly available on notebook PCs. The more GB on your hard drive, the
more applications and files you can store. The faster the rpm on your
hard drive, the more quickly you can boot up and the faster you can
load your favorite software. (1GB = 1 billion bytes. Actual formatted
capacity is less. Up to 8GB of the hard drive is reserved for the
system recovery software for use with Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home
and Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Professional. Up to 12GB of the hard
drive is reserved for the system recovery software for use with
Microsoft(R) Windows(R) Media Center Edition.)

If the additional drive is just a regular HD setup, do you think that
works better than one 7200 drive?

I think it will slower, unless you run two disk-instensive
applications at once or have too little memory. In these
cases you can have one application on one drive and the other
application/the pagefile on the other disk. No speed advantages
otherwise. And 5400 is slower than 7200.

Maybe for the desktop, staying at 7200 is better than the Raptor. 7200
is good.

The Raptor is a bit faster than a 7200rpm drive, but not that much.
Get a good 7200 rpm drive (Seagete, Samsunf, maybe Hitachi) and
spend the money you save either on more RAM or on a second rive.

And don't foget that you need at least the same disk size (better
two times... three times) for backup.

Arno

 

[Paul Rubin]

Thanks. I hadn't thought about the laptop getting hot from using a
higher RPM internal drive. My current HP laptop is 2.5 years old. I'll
be getting a new laptop next year. The one I have in mind list
several HD options:

- 80GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive

Are you sure your HP has a SATA internal drive? I didn't think they
were doing that in laptops 2.5 years ago.

 

[brett]

Are you sure your HP has a SATA internal drive? I didn't think they

were doing that in laptops 2.5 years ago.

A lot changes in 2.5 years. Check their website. You'll probably be
surprised by what you can get on laptops now.

Brett

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

These laptop are for the home. I don't think they are using RAID1.
The description for each dual hard drive is:

Imagine the capacity and speed you can have with the 160 GB 5400 RPM
Dual Hard Drive! This dual hard drive provides storage capacities not
commonly available on notebook PCs. The more GB on your hard drive, the
more applications and files you can store. The faster the rpm on your
hard drive, the more quickly you can boot up and the faster you can
load your favorite software. (1GB = 1 billion bytes. Actual formatted
capacity is less. Up to 8GB of the hard drive is reserved for the
system recovery software for use with Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Home
and Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Professional. Up to 12GB of the hard
drive is reserved for the system recovery software for use with
Microsoft(R) Windows(R) Media Center Edition.)

If the additional drive is just a regular HD setup, do you think that
works better than one 7200 drive?

First you show babblebot to be clueless, but then you still ask him for advice?
What's wrong with you.

 

[mike]

My laptop has a 4200 RPM HD. I was thinking about getting a USB
5400RPM HD:
http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=261. I
could move applications to the USB drive and leave the primary for the
OS. Will the USB drive perform better than my current HD or will it
actually be slower because of USB?

Thanks,
Brett

Some things to think about: (I don't need the answer, but you do)

Why do you need the speed? Is a few percent gonna change from "not
working" to "working acceptably"?

Why do you need a laptop? Once you start hanging stuff (usb disks)
on it, it's no longer a laptop. Desktops are MUCH cheaper, faster,
bigger screens, better everything.

Have you maxed out the ram?
A well designed operating system loads everything into ram until it
fills up then starts shovelling stuff out into swapspace. Once it's
loaded, the major conrtibutor to slowdown is the speed of your swapfile.
A well designed program seeks to keep the working set small so it stays
in ram.

Can you do something with a ram disk? In most cases that's
counter-optimal, but if you have a pathological case...

Sure, it depends on what you're doing, but there may be operating system
tweeks to shut off the 90% bloat that you never use anyway. You may be
able to set your program to higher priority...not sure if that also
helps it stay in ram. Once your program's working set stays in ram,
the speed of the drive is pretty much irrelevant. Maybe somebody can
post a utility that maps your ram. I'd like to have that.

Are you sure upgading the drive will speed it up? Or maybe you just run
into the next bottleneck. A typical computer is as cheap as it can
possibly be. Excess capacity that's limited by low performance
elsewhere just wastes the vendor's profit. Maybe somebody here can
recommend some benchmarks to help you figger out those issues.
Don't forget about heat and battery life.

Buy a laptop that meets your needs. Use it until it no longer does.
Replace the laptop with one that meets your needs...repeat as necessary.
Of course, nobody does that or we'd all be driving 30 year old cars.

Like I said, it depends a lot on what you're trying to do.
mike

 

[Arno Wagner]

Some things to think about: (I don't need the answer, but you do)

Why do you need the speed? Is a few percent gonna change from "not
working" to "working acceptably"?

Why do you need a laptop? Once you start hanging stuff (usb disks)
on it, it's no longer a laptop. Desktops are MUCH cheaper, faster,
bigger screens, better everything.

Have you maxed out the ram?
A well designed operating system loads everything into ram until it
fills up then starts shovelling stuff out into swapspace. Once it's
loaded, the major conrtibutor to slowdown is the speed of your swapfile.
A well designed program seeks to keep the working set small so it stays
in ram.

Can you do something with a ram disk? In most cases that's
counter-optimal, but if you have a pathological case...

Sure, it depends on what you're doing, but there may be operating system
tweeks to shut off the 90% bloat that you never use anyway. You may be
able to set your program to higher priority...not sure if that also
helps it stay in ram. Once your program's working set stays in ram,
the speed of the drive is pretty much irrelevant. Maybe somebody can
post a utility that maps your ram. I'd like to have that.

Are you sure upgading the drive will speed it up? Or maybe you just run
into the next bottleneck. A typical computer is as cheap as it can
possibly be. Excess capacity that's limited by low performance
elsewhere just wastes the vendor's profit. Maybe somebody here can
recommend some benchmarks to help you figger out those issues.
Don't forget about heat and battery life.

Buy a laptop that meets your needs. Use it until it no longer does.
Replace the laptop with one that meets your needs...repeat as necessary.
Of course, nobody does that or we'd all be driving 30 year old cars.

Like I said, it depends a lot on what you're trying to do.
mike

Can only say this is an insightful posting indeed.

Arno

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Can only say this is an insightful posting indeed.

Then why didn't you post it, babblebot?

 

[Byllon]

I think external usb harddisk won't as fast as the internal ide/sata
harddisk.

And perhaps your laptop can't support 7200 rpm hd because of power
supply. But I believe replacing the internal hd with a 5400 rpm hd will
be helpful. I had done the work and the free 4200 hd with usb enclosure
to do external daily backup with the new software uplus sync.
"brett дµÀ£º
"

 

[Arno Wagner]

I think external usb harddisk won't as fast as the internal ide/sata
harddisk.

And perhaps your laptop can't support 7200 rpm hd because of power
supply.

That is not the issue. Power is there. But the laptop may not be
able to dissipate the heat a 7200 rpm drive generates.

Arno

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

That is not the issue. Power is there. But the laptop

may not be able to dissipate the heat a 7200 rpm drive generates.

And obviously *the* 7200 rpm drive generates a lot more heat, eh Babblebot.

As if any laptop drives run constantly these days.

And some of the better manufacturers have recognized
the problem and introduced Low Power dissipating drives.

The Seagate Momentus 7200 has the same powerdissipation as the 5400rpm Maxtor MobileMax (2 Watts)

 

[John Turco]

THe poor-mans SCSI disk. Or so WD thinks. Isn't it funny that WD,
of all the disk manufaturers, never reached the reliability
and performance to get into the SCSI market?

<edited>

Hello, Arno:

It's practically certain that Western Digital pulled out of the SCSI
market, for economic reasons. Can you offer >any< evidence to the
contrary?


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>

 

[Arno Wagner]

<heavily edited, for brevity>

Hello, Arno:

It's practically certain that Western Digital pulled out of the SCSI
market, for economic reasons. Can you offer >any< evidence to the
contrary?

Nobody has any evidence about the HDD manufacturers doing things
wrong. They are very, very careful about that. So no, I don't have
any evidence.

And economic reasons can also come down to: Our manufacturing
would have been too expensive when we needed to reach the
reliability level needed.

My primary indication that WD has quality problems is their
''RAID'' drives....

Arno

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

It should. But cooling is one of the most problematic design issues
in a laptop and often it is solved quite badly. Best make sure
you get a 3 year warranty and have cuurent backups....

with the emphasis on "cuurent".

I thinsk the two-drive option is for RAID1.

Keep thinsking, babbebot.

The poor-mans SCSI disk. Or so WD thinks.

It's not only WD that think that.

Isn't it funny that WD, of all the disk manufaturers, never reached
the reliability and performance to get into the SCSI market?

What is funny is that it clearly shows when you were born, babbletoddler.
http://www.wdc.com/en/library/legacy/scsi/index.asp
They *were* in the SCSI market and they actually made some very fine
SCSI drives. Even their SCSI diagnostic utilities were of the very best
and still are if you happen to run Windows 9x.

Depends. The interface will moist likely not be a problem.

Yes, you better water them. Keep those moist interfaces wet.

But Raptors may run hot and lound.

You might want to look into that.

Yep, watch those 'lound' drives. Keep your earplugs ready.

 

[John Turco]

Nobody has any evidence about the HDD manufacturers doing things
wrong. They are very, very careful about that. So no, I don't have
any evidence.

And economic reasons can also come down to: Our manufacturing
would have been too expensive when we needed to reach the
reliability level needed.

My primary indication that WD has quality problems is their
''RAID'' drives....

Arno

Hello, Arno:

I may be mistaken, but, you seem to be vehemently anti-WD. Bad personal
experiences with some of the company's hardware, perhaps? ;-)


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>