failing drive question

  • Thread starter Thread starter Susan
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Susan

If cd/dvd drive fails/stops working would the bios setting for enabled
drives change to off? What causes bios settings to change other than going
into the set-up and manually changing it yourself?
 
Susan said:
If cd/dvd drive fails/stops working would the bios setting for enabled
drives change to off?

Not necessarily. If the drive's physical connection is fine but the laser is
duff, the drive will still show in the BIOS and show as enabled.
What causes bios settings to change other than
going into the set-up and manually changing it yourself?

If the drive controller on the optical drive fails or the drive controller
on the motherboard fails, the drive won't be seen in the BIOS.

I think you would get a more useful answer if you asked a specific question
and detailed exactly what your issues are.

Malke
 
Susan said:
If cd/dvd drive fails/stops working would the bios setting for enabled
drives change to off? What causes bios settings to change other than going
into the set-up and manually changing it yourself?

Hello Susan:

1) If others, with computer skills, have physical access to your
system, then others could change change your BIOS settings. Of course
this would take a reboot in its simplest form.

2) Malware. But admittedly this is rather rare.

3) Hardware failure. Again somewhat rare.

HTH

Pete
 
Paul said:
Susan wrote:
You would hope nothing could do that.
[snip]

So, potential mechanisms

1) Likely possible for well crafted software or malware, to mess
around with the CMOS. I don't know how well defended the CMOS is
from the OS level, or how difficult it would be to disturb the CMOS.

2) Turn off computer power, battery is bad, could lead to corrupted
settings. A checksum error may be seen at power up, or some other
side effect.

3) On some systems, a crash and reboot, may find the BIOS settings
changed. (My Asus motherboards do that.) But the default should
be to leave all IDE ports enabled. It makes no sense for the default
to be disabling IDE ports.

I had a similar situation just last night. (intel board) By accident I
inserted a PATA drive jumpered as master in a caddy that is slave to another
drive. Doing so, removed the SATA boot drive from the BIOS boot priority list
completely. Removing the misconfigured PATA drive had had no effect. The
only drives in the boot list were CD and floppy.
 
Bill said:
"Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
I had a similar situation just last night. (intel board) By accident I
inserted a PATA drive jumpered as master in a caddy that is slave to another
drive. Doing so, removed the SATA boot drive from the BIOS boot priority list
completely. Removing the misconfigured PATA drive had had no effect. The
only drives in the boot list were CD and floppy.

I'm curious. What were the exact symptoms ?

There is a difference between "screwing up the boot order", versus
"disabling a port in the disk screens". I've had the boot order problem
a number of times. If you reconfigure disks, it pays to visit the boot
order, and verify that the disk priority menu is correct for what
you're doing. BIOS implementations vary, on how well they handle it.

On all the computers here, I've never had a case of a disk port in the
screen that identifies disks, going "disabled" on its own. But I've had
boot order problems plenty of times.

My current boot order consists of two levels. There is the
"floppy-CDROM-HardDrive" level, for specifying the basic order.
But since multiple hard drives are present, there is also a
"disk3-disk1-disk2" type menu, where you push the real boot
drive to the top of the list, in order to boot. Plugging and
unplugging drives, seems to upset the "disk3-disk1-disk2" list.

Another side effect of the "disk3-disk1-disk2", has to do with
some level of disk identification later. I haven't figured out
what is going on there. For example, if I install Linux on the
computer, and happen to leave multiple hard drives connected,
the MBR gets written on some drive during the installation.
And the drive selected, appears *not* to be the same one the
install is going to. So I've had the MBR wiped out on my Windows
drive for example. In that case, I'm actually booting from the
CD, in order to install Linux, and yet the "disk3-disk1-disk2"
must be consulted in some way, in order to identify a drive to
have the MBR butchered (disk3). So I can identify some side effects
from the "disk3-disk1-disk2" menu. It even affects a Linux install,
where I'm booting with a floppy disk with GRUB on it, and telling
GRUB which drive to use. The value I enter in the GRUB menu,
changes as a function of the "disk3-disk1-disk2" menu. Either I
have to go back into the BIOS and change the disk priority, to
make the current value in GRUB line up, or I have to edit GRUB
each time I use it from the floppy. (Using a floppy and GRUB,
is a work around which avoids Linux touching the MBR :-) )

So that is where I see the most instability, and undocumented
behavior. In the hard drive priority menu of my computer.

Paul
 
My mom lives alone and does not have anyone fooling with the computer. I do
not believe this is malware related. I found the following post on Dell

http://en.community.dell.com/forums/t/19283543.aspx

and it was the same computer model and occured this month so I tried to
reset the CMOS but the problem still exists.



I had changed Drive 1 and Drive 2 to On prior to the reset so I know that
there was a change after doing the reset.



When I went into the setup after the reset, the Drives showed the following:

Drive 0: On

Drive 1: Off (the factory default is On)

Drive 2: Off (the factory default is On)
Drive 3: On



OnBoard Devices

USB Controller

On (the factory default is On)



There have been no hardware additions/replacements to mom's computer. We
opened the case for the first time to reset the CMOS today. I have also
called McAfee and asked if there was anyway the Total Protection could
change the BIOS settings and was told no!



Any suggestions? Thanks

Susan
 
Susan said:
My mom lives alone and does not have anyone fooling with the computer. I do
not believe this is malware related. I found the following post on Dell

http://en.community.dell.com/forums/t/19283543.aspx

and it was the same computer model and occured this month so I tried to
reset the CMOS but the problem still exists.

I had changed Drive 1 and Drive 2 to On prior to the reset so I know that
there was a change after doing the reset.

When I went into the setup after the reset, the Drives showed the following:

Drive 0: On

Drive 1: Off (the factory default is On)

Drive 2: Off (the factory default is On)
Drive 3: On

OnBoard Devices

USB Controller

On (the factory default is On)

There have been no hardware additions/replacements to mom's computer. We
opened the case for the first time to reset the CMOS today. I have also
called McAfee and asked if there was anyway the Total Protection could
change the BIOS settings and was told no!

Any suggestions? Thanks

Susan

Well, that's a puzzle for sure.

Clearing the CMOS, should be detected by the BIOS on the next POST,
and the BIOS should load defaults. And a normal value for defaults,
should be to enable those ports. (Note as well, whatever is doing
this, drive 1 and drive 2 are on different interfaces, so this
is more clever than it seems.)

So, you're saying it is impossible to turn on Drive 1 and Drive 2 ?

As far as I know, the BIOS should not "react" to the state of
drives on the cable, except to choose to recognize them or not.
So if a drive was defective, the BIOS should continue to keep
the drives enabled, but it may show no device is detected there.

Disabling an entry in the BIOS, is supposed to be up to the
human operator. There is no reason for the BIOS to flip them
off.

What happens, if you unplug the ribbon cable from the motherboard,
for say the second drive (Drive 2 and Drive 3 would be on that
cable) ? Does the behavior change at all ? Can you make any
changes to those settings, which "stick" between boots ?

I would probably try the following test cases

1) Enter the BIOS and enable Drive 2 and 3. "Save and exit". Wait
for the BIOS to start again, press F2 and reenter the BIOS.
Are the drives still enabled ? This test case, is to see if the
BIOS is doing this on its own.

2) Enter the BIOS and enable Drive 2 and 3. "Save and exit".
Boot with a non-Windows CD, that is, if the CD can be enabled
at all. When you're finished with the disc, pop it out of the
tray, and do a reboot. Enter the BIOS again by pressing F2.
Has the setting changed while the non-Windows OS was running ?

3) Enter the BIOS and enable Drive 2 and 3. "Save and exit".
Boot WinXP. When done, do a reboot. Enter the BIOS again
by pressing F2. Has the BIOS reverted to the disabled settings
on Drive 2 and Drive 3.

If you need something else to boot from, that could be a Linux LiveCD,
or even a hard drive test diagnostic from the likes of Seagate or
Western Digital. You need something, other than the WinXP C: drive
to boot from, so you can compare the results, to the test case
where you boot WinXP. I think memtest86+ is available in CD form,
and that one boots its own little environment. To burn an ISO9660
CD, you need a burner program like Nero, or some other tool that
knows how to parse an ISO file. (You don't just "copy" the file
to the CD - the file is like a set of instructions on how to
burn the CD, such that it is bootable.)

http://www.memtest.org

It is possible for software in the OS, to ignore a "disable" setting.
For example, ATI video cards with AGP interfaces, have driver code
to ignore the AGP setting in the BIOS. But your situation is the
other way around, where it would appear that something is changing
the BIOS. The CMOS settings are protected by a checksum, so whatever
is doing it, would also have to be clever enough to recompute the correct
checksum and put that back. That is not difficult to do technically,
as the whole thing is documented. What I don't know, is what
protection mechanisms exist to prevent monkey business like that.

If only the WinXP booting case causes the problem, I'd probably
do a malware scan. For example, this is a self-contained virus
scanner. It boots its own copy of Linux. Once booted, it goes out
to the network, and fetches the latest virus definitions. And
then it does a scan. It is an example of a tool that allows
scanning, without WinXP running. There is less the malware can
do in that case, unless the malware was designed to infect
multiple OSes (which is possible, but more work for the
malware writers).

http://dnl-eu10.kaspersky-labs.com/devbuilds/RescueDisk/

To use that, I'd have my regular network setup, all working
in Windows first. Then shut down, and reboot with the
Kaspersky bootable CD in the drive. Since the network
would still be enabled when Linux starts running, that
should make it easy for the DHCP agent in Linux, to
enable networking on the Ethernet interface, so that
the virus definitions can be updated.

If you had a complete failure of your optical drives,
and could not boot from them at all, the next alternative
would be USB flash devices as a boot option. But,
you have to be a certified rocket scientist to get
that to work reliably for each case you want to run.
Preparing CDs is a lot easier.

This isn't likely to be caused by a bad CMOS battery
(CR2032 coin cell battery), as in the above test
cases, you're not turning off the PC power, and so
the CMOS is supplied from +5VSB output of the power
supply. So even if the CMOS battery was weak, there
should still be a solid 3V level being delivered to
the Southbridge CMOS power input.

Paul
 
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