A
Aaron
I need to make an F6 install (to provide SATA drivers) in a pc without
floppy drive. Is there any work-around?
floppy drive. Is there any work-around?
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J
Jim
Buy yourself a USB floppy drive.Aaron said:I need to make an F6 install (to provide SATA drivers) in a pc without
floppy drive. Is there any work-around?
Jim
M
Mario Schmidt
Aaron said:I need to make an F6 install (to provide SATA drivers) in a pc without
floppy drive. Is there any work-around?
Integrate driver(s) into CD, www.driverpacks.net
You'll need at least driverpack massstorage and driverpack base.
Before doing this, you should also integrate SP2 into the CD. Search for
a howto. This howto should also include the tasks to burn the bootable CD.
So:
1. Integrate SP2 into CD
2. Integrate drivers into CD
3. Burn bootable CD
4. Install
M
Mario Schmidt
Jim said:Buy yourself a USB floppy drive.
No.
J
Jim
In less time than this, the OP could have gone to the store, bought a USBMario Schmidt said:Integrate driver(s) into CD, www.driverpacks.net
You'll need at least driverpack massstorage and driverpack base.
Before doing this, you should also integrate SP2 into the CD. Search for a
howto. This howto should also include the tasks to burn the bootable CD.
So:
1. Integrate SP2 into CD
2. Integrate drivers into CD
3. Burn bootable CD
4. Install
floppy, connected it to his computer, and loaded his disk.
This will not work if the BIOS does not support a USB floppy.
Then, the OP should go through the above headache. At least, when the OP
gets done, there is now a method to accomplish the
task.
Jim
M
Mario Schmidt
Jim said:In less time than this, the OP could have gone to the store, bought a USB
floppy, connected it to his computer, and loaded his disk.
Floppy disk is dead. Really. Its just stupid Microsoft, that "forces"
you to still need it. But, there is a workaround which I posted.
Where is your problem? You may go out and buy 200 USB Floppy drivers if
you think its fun.
M
Mario Schmidt
Suggestion: Why not support USB masstorage for drivers with SP3?
Suggestion 2: Why not integrate all currently available masstorage
drivers into SP3?
Suggestion 3: Why not sell an USB Floppy drive with all future XP licenses?
Suggestion 2: Why not integrate all currently available masstorage
drivers into SP3?
Suggestion 3: Why not sell an USB Floppy drive with all future XP licenses?
S
Shenan Stanley
Mario said:Suggestion: Why not support USB masstorage for drivers with SP3?
Suggestion 2: Why not integrate all currently available masstorage
drivers into SP3?
Suggestion 3: Why not sell an USB Floppy drive with all future XP
licenses?
(1) Because XP is dying off - whether you want it to or not...
(2) Because that is not plausible, not Microsoft's responsibility and XP is
dying off - whether you want it to or not...
(3) Because that is just silly, not plausible or necessary, not Microsoft's
responsibility (they did not create the products that might need said
attention) and XP is dying off - whether you want it to or not...
M
Mario Schmidt
Shenan said:(1) Because XP is dying off - whether you want it to or not...
(2) Because that is not plausible, not Microsoft's responsibility and XP is
dying off - whether you want it to or not...
(3) Because that is just silly, not plausible or necessary, not Microsoft's
responsibility (they did not create the products that might need said
attention) and XP is dying off - whether you want it to or not...
What if I tell you that the Floppy was already "dying off" when XP was
released?
You can still buy XP as a new product for the same price you piad 3
years ago.
S
Shenan Stanley
Mario said:Suggestion: Why not support USB masstorage for drivers with SP3?
Suggestion 2: Why not integrate all currently available masstorage
drivers into SP3?
Suggestion 3: Why not sell an USB Floppy drive with all future XP
licenses?
Shenan said:(1) Because XP is dying off - whether you want it to or not...
(2) Because that is not plausible, not Microsoft's responsibility and XP
is dying off - whether you want it to or not...
(3) Because that is just silly, not plausible or necessary, not
Microsoft's responsibility (they did not create the products that might
need said attention) and XP is dying off - whether you want it to or
not...
Mario said:What if I tell you that the Floppy was already "dying off" when XP was
released?
You can still buy XP as a new product for the same price you paid 3 years
ago.
Floppy drives have been in death throws since long before Windows XP was
released. Once CD-RWs became inexpensive (pennies vs. dollars each) and
even when ZIP drives and other MO drives started becoming popular - the
floppy diskette began to die.
That does not mean it is dead. Why? Even in the fast paced technological
world, some manufacturers lag behind in some aspects. Some motherboard
BIOS' offer floppy disk versions of their flash applications - some may not
even offer other means - but you can of course USE other means if you know
what you are doing. Some people do not run the latest/greatest OSes - even
in the corporate world - and they may need to the floppy diskette for a
variety of reasons. Then there is human nature - some people learn to do
things one way and dislike changing, and chances are - some of those people
are reaching an age where they have lots of time and some disposable income.
Six or so years ago when Windows XP was released - the floppy disk drive was
still pushed out in almost every new machine. If I had to guess, I would
put the number at above 75% of all machines just *came* with Floppy Diskette
Drives. That number has slowly decreased over the years and I would bet
that less than 15% of unmodified 'stock' machines come with floppy diskette
drives - although most large vendors still choose to offer it as an option.
CD-R/RW has actually started its decline as far as I see it. DVD +/-R & RW
is approaching middle age and the HD/BlueRay technologies are the next
thing. Short lives. That doesn't mean that the old technology has lost its
usefulness to everyone - considering there are still people who are just
purchasing their first home computer or people who are still using the same
computer they bought in late 1998 - sometimes with the same operating system
still.
I can still buy a lot of things at the same price as I could three years
ago. However - I also understand that much of the stuff that I buy
(computer/technology related) that was selling in the same guise three years
ago will not be supported much longer *if* it is even supported now.
I do not deny that floppy diskettes are dying - gasping in fact; however, I
still have a floppy diskette drive around (USB and internal) in case I need
them - and the times where I do *still* come up. So while it is true that
the floppy diskette is a dying technology - so is Windows XP and much of the
associated technology that comes along for the ride with Windows XP. Might
someone who decides to use a dying technology have to make some special
considerations to do so? Yeah - more than likely.
Some new products that come out - well, although unlikely at this juncture -
the manufacturer could decide they were not going to put out drivers or the
software just won't run on anything but the latest OSes - released in the
last (for example) two years or less. There are devices/software that won't
run on Windows 9x. There will be (probably already is) devices/software
that won't run on Windows XP.
Change comes fast in the technological world - complete death of a
technology, not quite as quickly.
In the case of this thread - I have MANY times integrated all patches and
many controller/drivers into a Windows XP CD. However - go to anyone in
your circle of family/friends that doesn't understand technology
(particularly computers) as well as yourself and tell them they can
integrate the drivers into their Windows XP CD - along with all of the
patches even if they desire - shortening (in the end) any subsequent
installations of the OS on their system and either you will end up doing it
for them OR - if they have found out (you told them wisely) that they could
go by a $25 USB floppy diskette drive and get the same end result all in one
straight-forward (without getting technical) process they can understand -
they will more than likely spend the $25 to continue using the technology
they have become used to.
M
Mario Schmidt
Shenan said:In the case of this thread - I have MANY times integrated all patches and
many controller/drivers into a Windows XP CD. However - go to anyone in
your circle of family/friends that doesn't understand technology
(particularly computers) as well as yourself and tell them they can
integrate the drivers into their Windows XP CD - along with all of the
patches even if they desire - shortening (in the end) any subsequent
installations of the OS on their system and either you will end up doing it
for them OR - if they have found out (you told them wisely) that they could
go by a $25 USB floppy diskette drive and get the same end result all in one
straight-forward (without getting technical) process they can understand -
they will more than likely spend the $25 to continue using the technology
they have become used to.
Okay. I just wanted to make clear that an answer to a question like "A
person wants to travel from A to B but has no car. How can he still get
there?" can't be "Go buy a car". Same with that needed Floppy drive.
The OP asked how to install _without_ a Floppy disk drive. So IMHO the
answer can't be "Go buy one", if there are other (and cheaper) ways.
We don't know anything about OPs knowledge of computers, so why assume?
Back to SP3. XP is still actively maintained, sold and bundled, so my
suggestion is not "out of this world". Do you really think the way to
load massstorage drivers is great how it is at the moment? This should
be an easy task to implement. Hell, SP2 introduced a LOT of new
functionality at no cost. And even at the point SP2 was released it was
clear that a new Windows version will be released. This is what I call
supporting a product.
Microsoft has to learn something: You can't just force the users to buy
a new Windows version, if the current one suits their needs, especially
when the new version has nearly nothing really new except a new outfit
which also forces you to buy a whole new machine. There are other OSes
that have same amount of features or even more and will run pretty good
on the old machine. So its obvious the user gets very angry with
Microsoft or he just changes his platform to another OS. Vista is the
best example. So please _support_ your great product that people love
and spend money for. Even at the moment, if I had to buy a new machine,
I would choose XP for this machine.
S
Shenan Stanley
For the original thread that spawned this discussion, go here:
http://groups.google.com/group/micr...def9eedf380?lnk=st&q=&rnum=3#41a68def9eedf380
Actually - the OP was not as specific as you seem to be making them out to
be...
All the OP said was, "I need to make an F6 install (to provide SATA drivers)
in a pc without floppy diskette drive. Is there any work-around?" <-- which
does not exclude purchasing a floppy diskette drive (internal or external)
nor does it exclude the possibility of integrating the necessary drivers
into the installation media. It could be the OP was unaware of the
availability of USB floppy diskette drives... All they asked for was a
'work-around'... They never excluded ANY possibilities that I see.
So - the person asked how to travel from A to B, but only said that at this
time they have no means other than walking to get there. Could you suggest
'buy a bicycle' or 'buy a car' or 'call a friend with a car to give you a
ride' as valid 'work-arounds' (which was all that was asked for)? Yes. Are
those the only solutions? No.
You ask 'why assume' - yet assume yourself when you ONLY give the one option
of integrating the drivers into the installation media. In life I have
found that if you ARE going to assume anything - you are better off assuming
the least common denominator - the one that covers the most bases. The
skills that it takes to do the integration of drivers into the installation
media - to me - are *not* the least common denominator.
If you want to not assume - the thread should have went like this:
Aaron,
You can...
.... borrow a floppy diskette drive (internal) from another machine (yours, a
friend's, a neighbors, a family member) and use it.
.... borrow an external (USB) floppy diskette drive from a friend, a
neighbor, a family member and use it.
.... purchase an internal floppy diskette drive inexpensively and install
it/use it.
http://www.pricewatch.com/hard_drives/floppy_1.44.htm
.... purchase an external (USB) floppy diskette drive inexpensively and use
it.
http://www.pricewatch.com/hard_drives/floppy_usb.htm
.... integrate the drivers for the SATA controller into the installation
media and burn a new copy and use that.
There are many ways to do this and you should know you are better off if
your CD has (or you do it yourself) SP2 integrated into it already. One
method of doing this that has been automated more than others is:
http://www.driverpacks.net/
.... have a tech-savvy friend/relative integrate the drivers into your
installation media for you and use it.
.... take your system to a shop that can do that for you and pay them for the
service. In this case - I would ask if they could not do something for the
list above for you as well - so you do not have to repeat this and/or you
should make an image of your system when it is done so you can apply it with
all drivers at a later date.
<end of thread example>
So - if you are going to say, "Why assume", make sure you haven't done that
yourself. ;-)
Microsoft cannot force anyone to buy anything - nor ARE they. As I said -
there are still people using systems they bought new in 1998 - likely with
the same OS and applications. Anyone can CHOOSE whatever they want - if
they do choose to go to another OS (Vista for example) - they CHOSE to do
so - no one forced their hand. Microsoft - in the same light - can CHOOSE
not to support a product they sell after a given lifetime and/or when they
have moved on to producing a new product. As an example - I have an
electric start Lawn Boy lawnmower that Lawnboy no longer makes. Lawnboy
still makes lawnmowers - but they do *not* support mine any longer. I
stocked up on blades because the mower is working fine - but I cannot find
the new ones anymore. *Is* Lawnboy *forcing* me to buy a new lawnmower or
will time just do that naturally - like it does to everything else?
Companies and people move on. The day you were born, you could die anytime
after that. Same with everything else. There truly is no constants and
whether or not you want to change - the world around you will change anyway.
Unless you happen to be 'Mario Almighty' or something?
Microsoft is not the ONLY deciding factor in what is supported and what
isn't. Your computer probably doesn't have a single Microsoft produced
hardware component inside it. I doubt your scanner/printer was made by
Microsoft. Your monitor and such are likely not Microsoft products either.
Maybe your mouse, keyboard... maybe not. All of those hundreds of hardware
manufacturers get to choose what OSes their products work on - or more
precisely - which OSes they provide drivers and/or support for.
SP2 was released three years ago. In that time a few new OSes have been
released and over 85 security patches (beyond SP2) to the OS (Windows XP) we
are speaking about in this thread. What will SP3 contain? Should it
contain anything that might 'extend' the life of Windows XP and/or make it
easier for end-users to continue using it? Not our decision and I seriously
doubt it will be much more than a roll-up of SP2+security patches since SP2.
Could it be made easier to include mass storage drivers? Yes.
Has it been done by third parties? Yes.
Will SP3 include it? Could - I personally doubt it.
Should SP3 include it? That's an opinion question - there is no solid
answer.
Nope - the current method is not perfect. I do not expect it to change for
Windows XP however. I realize there are people who will not go to Vista. I
personally tell people to order their machines NOW with Windows XP. Windows
Vista may well turn out to be Microsoft's second coming of Windows ME (it
was there, a few people noticed, then the next real OS came out and the
existence of it was downplayed even by the company that produced it) and the
next version of Windows will be like Windows XP was... Who knows.
Al I know is that this is far from helping the OP (except for the <thread
example> I threw in above) and is all but a moot point (albeit an
interesting discussion in some ways - it is a discussion of things of which
we have no control of - nor does (in many ways) any one entity.)
http://groups.google.com/group/micr...def9eedf380?lnk=st&q=&rnum=3#41a68def9eedf380
Mario said:Suggestion: Why not support USB masstorage for drivers with SP3?
Suggestion 2: Why not integrate all currently available masstorage
drivers into SP3?
Suggestion 3: Why not sell an USB Floppy drive with all future XP
licenses?
Shenan said:(1) Because XP is dying off - whether you want it to or not...
(2) Because that is not plausible, not Microsoft's responsibility and XP
is dying off - whether you want it to or not...
(3) Because that is just silly, not plausible or necessary, not
Microsoft's responsibility (they did not create the products that might
need said attention) and XP is dying off - whether you want it to or
not...
Mario said:What if I tell you that the Floppy was already "dying off" when XP was
released?
You can still buy XP as a new product for the same price you paid 3 years
ago.
Shenan said:Floppy drives have been in death throws since long before Windows XP was
released. Once CD-RWs became inexpensive (pennies vs. dollars each) and
even when ZIP drives and other MO drives started becoming popular - the
floppy diskette began to die.
That does not mean it is dead. Why? Even in the fast paced technological
world, some manufacturers lag behind in some aspects. Some motherboard
BIOS' offer floppy disk versions of their flash applications - some may
not even offer other means - but you can of course USE other means if you
know what you are doing. Some people do not run the latest/greatest
OSes - even in the corporate world - and they may need to the floppy
diskette for a variety of reasons. Then there is human nature - some
people learn to do things one way and dislike changing, and chances are -
some of those people are reaching an age where they have lots of time and
some disposable income.
Six or so years ago when Windows XP was released - the floppy disk drive
was still pushed out in almost every new machine. If I had to guess, I
would put the number at above 75% of all machines just *came* with Floppy
Diskette Drives. That number has slowly decreased over the years and I
would bet that less than 15% of unmodified 'stock' machines come with
floppy diskette drives - although most large vendors still choose to offer
it as an option.
CD-R/RW has actually started its decline as far as I see it. DVD +/-R &
RW is approaching middle age and the HD/BlueRay technologies are the next
thing. Short lives. That doesn't mean that the old technology has lost
its usefulness to everyone - considering there are still people who are
just purchasing their first home computer or people who are still using
the same computer they bought in late 1998 - sometimes with the same
operating system still.
I can still buy a lot of things at the same price as I could three years
ago. However - I also understand that much of the stuff that I buy
(computer/technology related) that was selling in the same guise three
years ago will not be supported much longer *if* it is even supported now.
I do not deny that floppy diskettes are dying - gasping in fact; however,
I still have a floppy diskette drive around (USB and internal) in case I
need them - and the times where I do *still* come up. So while it is true
that the floppy diskette is a dying technology - so is Windows XP and much
of the associated technology that comes along for the ride with Windows
XP. Might someone who decides to use a dying technology have to make some
special considerations to do so? Yeah - more than likely.
Some new products that come out - well, although unlikely at this
juncture - the manufacturer could decide they were not going to put out
drivers or the software just won't run on anything but the latest OSes -
released in the last (for example) two years or less. There are
devices/software that won't run on Windows 9x. There will be (probably
already is) devices/software that won't run on Windows XP.
Change comes fast in the technological world - complete death of a
technology, not quite as quickly.
In the case of this thread - I have MANY times integrated all patches and
many controller/drivers into a Windows XP CD. However - go to anyone in
your circle of family/friends that doesn't understand technology
(particularly computers) as well as yourself and tell them they can
integrate the drivers into their Windows XP CD - along with all of the
patches even if they desire - shortening (in the end) any subsequent
installations of the OS on their system and either you will end up doing
it for them OR - if they have found out (you told them wisely) that they
could go by a $25 USB floppy diskette drive and get the same end result
all in one straight-forward (without getting technical) process they can
understand - they will more than likely spend the $25 to continue using
the technology they have become used to.
Mario said:Okay. I just wanted to make clear that an answer to a question like "A
person wants to travel from A to B but has no car. How can he still get
there?" can't be "Go buy a car". Same with that needed Floppy drive.
The OP asked how to install _without_ a Floppy disk drive. So IMHO the
answer can't be "Go buy one", if there are other (and cheaper) ways.
We don't know anything about OPs knowledge of computers, so why assume?
Back to SP3. XP is still actively maintained, sold and bundled, so my
suggestion is not "out of this world". Do you really think the way to load
massstorage drivers is great how it is at the moment? This should be an
easy task to implement. Hell, SP2 introduced a LOT of new functionality at
no cost. And even at the point SP2 was released it was clear that a new
Windows version will be released. This is what I call supporting a
product.
Microsoft has to learn something: You can't just force the users to buy a
new Windows version, if the current one suits their needs, especially when
the new version has nearly nothing really new except a new outfit which
also forces you to buy a whole new machine. There are other OSes that have
same amount of features or even more and will run pretty good on the old
machine. So its obvious the user gets very angry with Microsoft or he just
changes his platform to another OS. Vista is the best example. So please
_support_ your great product that people love and spend money for. Even at
the moment, if I had to buy a new machine, I would choose XP for this
machine.
Actually - the OP was not as specific as you seem to be making them out to
be...
All the OP said was, "I need to make an F6 install (to provide SATA drivers)
in a pc without floppy diskette drive. Is there any work-around?" <-- which
does not exclude purchasing a floppy diskette drive (internal or external)
nor does it exclude the possibility of integrating the necessary drivers
into the installation media. It could be the OP was unaware of the
availability of USB floppy diskette drives... All they asked for was a
'work-around'... They never excluded ANY possibilities that I see.
So - the person asked how to travel from A to B, but only said that at this
time they have no means other than walking to get there. Could you suggest
'buy a bicycle' or 'buy a car' or 'call a friend with a car to give you a
ride' as valid 'work-arounds' (which was all that was asked for)? Yes. Are
those the only solutions? No.
You ask 'why assume' - yet assume yourself when you ONLY give the one option
of integrating the drivers into the installation media. In life I have
found that if you ARE going to assume anything - you are better off assuming
the least common denominator - the one that covers the most bases. The
skills that it takes to do the integration of drivers into the installation
media - to me - are *not* the least common denominator.
If you want to not assume - the thread should have went like this:
I need to make an F6 install (to provide SATA drivers) in a pc without
floppy drive. Is there any work-around?
Aaron,
You can...
.... borrow a floppy diskette drive (internal) from another machine (yours, a
friend's, a neighbors, a family member) and use it.
.... borrow an external (USB) floppy diskette drive from a friend, a
neighbor, a family member and use it.
.... purchase an internal floppy diskette drive inexpensively and install
it/use it.
http://www.pricewatch.com/hard_drives/floppy_1.44.htm
.... purchase an external (USB) floppy diskette drive inexpensively and use
it.
http://www.pricewatch.com/hard_drives/floppy_usb.htm
.... integrate the drivers for the SATA controller into the installation
media and burn a new copy and use that.
There are many ways to do this and you should know you are better off if
your CD has (or you do it yourself) SP2 integrated into it already. One
method of doing this that has been automated more than others is:
http://www.driverpacks.net/
.... have a tech-savvy friend/relative integrate the drivers into your
installation media for you and use it.
.... take your system to a shop that can do that for you and pay them for the
service. In this case - I would ask if they could not do something for the
list above for you as well - so you do not have to repeat this and/or you
should make an image of your system when it is done so you can apply it with
all drivers at a later date.
<end of thread example>
So - if you are going to say, "Why assume", make sure you haven't done that
yourself. ;-)
Microsoft cannot force anyone to buy anything - nor ARE they. As I said -
there are still people using systems they bought new in 1998 - likely with
the same OS and applications. Anyone can CHOOSE whatever they want - if
they do choose to go to another OS (Vista for example) - they CHOSE to do
so - no one forced their hand. Microsoft - in the same light - can CHOOSE
not to support a product they sell after a given lifetime and/or when they
have moved on to producing a new product. As an example - I have an
electric start Lawn Boy lawnmower that Lawnboy no longer makes. Lawnboy
still makes lawnmowers - but they do *not* support mine any longer. I
stocked up on blades because the mower is working fine - but I cannot find
the new ones anymore. *Is* Lawnboy *forcing* me to buy a new lawnmower or
will time just do that naturally - like it does to everything else?
Companies and people move on. The day you were born, you could die anytime
after that. Same with everything else. There truly is no constants and
whether or not you want to change - the world around you will change anyway.
Unless you happen to be 'Mario Almighty' or something?
Microsoft is not the ONLY deciding factor in what is supported and what
isn't. Your computer probably doesn't have a single Microsoft produced
hardware component inside it. I doubt your scanner/printer was made by
Microsoft. Your monitor and such are likely not Microsoft products either.
Maybe your mouse, keyboard... maybe not. All of those hundreds of hardware
manufacturers get to choose what OSes their products work on - or more
precisely - which OSes they provide drivers and/or support for.
SP2 was released three years ago. In that time a few new OSes have been
released and over 85 security patches (beyond SP2) to the OS (Windows XP) we
are speaking about in this thread. What will SP3 contain? Should it
contain anything that might 'extend' the life of Windows XP and/or make it
easier for end-users to continue using it? Not our decision and I seriously
doubt it will be much more than a roll-up of SP2+security patches since SP2.
Could it be made easier to include mass storage drivers? Yes.
Has it been done by third parties? Yes.
Will SP3 include it? Could - I personally doubt it.
Should SP3 include it? That's an opinion question - there is no solid
answer.
Nope - the current method is not perfect. I do not expect it to change for
Windows XP however. I realize there are people who will not go to Vista. I
personally tell people to order their machines NOW with Windows XP. Windows
Vista may well turn out to be Microsoft's second coming of Windows ME (it
was there, a few people noticed, then the next real OS came out and the
existence of it was downplayed even by the company that produced it) and the
next version of Windows will be like Windows XP was... Who knows.
Al I know is that this is far from helping the OP (except for the <thread
example> I threw in above) and is all but a moot point (albeit an
interesting discussion in some ways - it is a discussion of things of which
we have no control of - nor does (in many ways) any one entity.)