Extremely slow uploads (publishing)

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Guest

When I publish websites using FP the upload speed is only 40 kb/sec, more or
less, but when I use FTP it is at least 10 times that speed. Is this normal
for FP?

Many thanks for any replies,

Jay Mark in NYC
 
Thanks, Tom, but that's not it, as far as I can tell. I tried both FTP and
FP on two different hosting services that I use and I have the same problem
on both of them. I even went into one of the hosts and reset the FP
extensions, thinking that might have something to do with it, but no dice.

On the other hand, if you are correct, and both hosts are doing something
that's slowing FP down, how can I find out for sure (and what might it be)?

Thanks,

Jay

Tom [Pepper] Willett said:
It's not FP. It's how your host/ISP has things set up.
--
Tom Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
----------
Jay in NYC said:
When I publish websites using FP the upload speed is only 40 kb/sec, more
or
less, but when I use FTP it is at least 10 times that speed. Is this
normal
for FP?

Many thanks for any replies,

Jay Mark in NYC
 
Ask them?

--
Tom Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
----------
Jay in NYC said:
Thanks, Tom, but that's not it, as far as I can tell. I tried both FTP
and
FP on two different hosting services that I use and I have the same
problem
on both of them. I even went into one of the hosts and reset the FP
extensions, thinking that might have something to do with it, but no dice.

On the other hand, if you are correct, and both hosts are doing something
that's slowing FP down, how can I find out for sure (and what might it
be)?

Thanks,

Jay

Tom [Pepper] Willett said:
It's not FP. It's how your host/ISP has things set up.
--
Tom Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
FrontPage Support: http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
----------
Jay in NYC said:
When I publish websites using FP the upload speed is only 40 kb/sec,
more
or
less, but when I use FTP it is at least 10 times that speed. Is this
normal
for FP?

Many thanks for any replies,

Jay Mark in NYC
 
Dear Jay,

It may help you, in the case of Microsoft FrontPage, to think of HTTP
as your local librarian, and FTP as your local moving company.

The librarian likes to index stuff - constantly adding Dewey Decimal
System markers to things (in this case, FrontPage log files), running
up and down aisles looking for the proper place to put things,
constantly looking inside the books to see what they contain (read:
MIME types - see http://www.w3.org/Library/User/Paper/LibraryPaper.html
for more information), and generally being nosy. This is what the
librarian is supposed to do, and why FrontPage employs, and prefers,
this protocol.

Your local moving company sends out a big truck with 3 or 4 burly
movers, and just piles the stuff into the truck, drives to the new
place as fast as they can, dumps the stuff whereever you said, punches
the clock, and goes to get a beer. The burly movers could care less
about what is in the boxes; they just move them. They almost never look
inside the boxes they move; only the minimum amount of error-checking
is going on.

When you open a site in FrontPage that has been published via FTP for
the first time, the little librarian still runs up and down the aisles
anyway, adding little markers to files, logging changes, and so-on. The
speed gained one way is usually balanced by the logging the other way,
unless your site is just one or two big boxes.

The librarian can drive just as fast as the moving company, but is more
thoughtful about what is going on. Librarians have more to think about,
and more to do. My advice is to trust your local librarian, unless your
website is just one big box.

No disrespect is intended to any moving company employees who may read
this: even the most experienced coder depends on you, and your
important services, from time to time.

Good luck in your new home, Jay.

Nicholas Savalas - http://savalas.tv
 
Thanks, Nicholas. So if I understand you, you are saying that this 10:1
disparity in uploading is normal, right? I have been using FP for years and
I'm surprised that if this is the normal speed of things that I never noticed
it before. I also am not clear, despite whatever housekeeping FP does at the
server end, why the actual transmission of data should be 10 times slower
than FTP. I would think that any such "busy work" would take place AFTER
each file is uploaded, not during. So let me ask you directly: Are you
certain this situation is normal for FP?

Thanks, Jay
 
It shouldn't be that much slower...

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================
 
Thanks, Thomas. I will contact MS via that support link and see what
happens.

Regards,

Jay in NYC
 
Dear Jay,

Aha. So now we are reduced to direct questions, are we? There are no
absolutes, anywhere. But I sense that you are a true seeker of
knowledge - one who desires full and complete accounting of all
involved issues.

I, therefore, being a true FrontPatriot, will take a stand. By the way,
the term 'FrontPatriot' is © 1999, Nicholas Savalas -
http://savalas.tv - all rights reserved.

Your situation is NORMAL.

With a few caveats, of course. There are, as I said, NO absolutes.

First of all, the way you, or anyone, makes connection to the Internet,
and therefore transfers files, has to abide by specified rules of
engagement. The 'International Law' of the Internet (apparently chaired
by United States Vice-President Al Gore, but that is another topic)
demands that there be some kind of error-checking. No one wants
incomplete data. Here is the scenario - picture this. "Once upon a
time, it was a bright and sunny day, and..."

....you are surfing to your favorite Internet romance site (using HTTP,
our Cupid) - and your modem (MOdulator-DEModulator, our hero) receives
a packet of information, say, 22 bytes long. The sender (Server, our
love interest in this tryst) also sends a little love note on the tail
end of the packet that says, "Dear Modem: I have just sent you a packet
of data 22 bytes long. Have you received it? R.S.V.P. Love, Your
Server.", and then waits for Modem (or whatever), to reply, "Dearest
Server: Yes. I have received your lovely packet of data that is, as you
told me, exactly 22 bytes in length, and I thank you for your kindness.
I anxiously await your next packet. Love, Modem." The ever-attentive
server then sends the next packet of data, because you have told Server
that you have received the last packet in its' entirety. This beautiful
story, brought to you by Vice-President Al Gore, is entitled:
"Error-Checking".

But, in Chapter 2 of Mr. Gore's Love-Saga, we have the introduction of
another character, the coarse and pushy FTP, who just rushes around,
assuming that he, the brute, can go as fast as all get-out. He starts
to cycle up - first 1k/sec, then 5k/sec, then faster and faster, until
Mr. Gore steps in, and says, "Wait! You cannot rush around like a
banshee - your data has to be error-checked, too.", and FTP slows down
to his maximum, error-checked, throughput rate, still just tossing data
around. FTP seems to be going faster, but is it really?

On small files, like our original, two-headed, 22 byte love packet
(sent through HTTP/Cupid), the speed is the speed of our connection,
with error correction, "...always and forever".

FTP, on the other hand, has to actually AUTHENTICATE itself to the
server with every single file. FTP says: "Watch out! I'm coming in with
this packet of data!", but the server says, "Hold it, Hercules. No one
enters here without the proper credentials. Who are you, and what's the
magic word?"

Sheepishly, FTP replies, "Um... OK - I am username so-and-so, and my
password is whatever". Server, ever attentive, checks its' credentials
against its' guest list, and says, "OK - you can come in - but only
this once", and closes the connection when the FTP data transfer FOR
THAT FILE is complete. FTP returns with another file, but again, Server
demands authentication. Server does it for every file, no matter it's
size. HTTP only requires the authentication (in most cases) only once.

The moral of the story? If you are sending ONE BIG BOX - there is
little to compare to FTP. If your site has hundreds and hundreds of
little files, HTTP (aka FrontPage) may sometimes even exceed the speed
of FTP.

Good luck, Jay. May all of your file transfers be happy ones.

Nicholas Savalas - http://savalas.tv

---------------------------------------------------
 
OK -- I have some interesting information to post, and I think I solved my
problem (which, it turns out, was apparently not a problem after all).

First of all, two things happened simultaneously which prompted me to post
my question, but I didn't realize it at the time.

One was that when I was uploading from FP there were a number of new files
in the queue. Unfortunately, the way FP works, it doesn't show a list of
pages (or files) about to be uploaded. So I thought I was only uploading one
file, and that it was going slowly (at around 40 kb/sec, according to the
screen display). What was actually happeneing was that only the first of
three files was being uploaded, so of course the "progress indicator" was
moving slowly. As I said, FP apparently knew there were multiple files to be
uploaded (otherwise why would the progress indicator move slowly -- the
slowness due to the "overall" progress -- not the progress of the one file
presently uploading) but it (FP) doesn't display the names of the files or
pages currently in the queue. So I thought I was only uploading one file and
that it was going very slowly.

The second issue was something I only determined today, which was that my
FTP program was displaying the number of BITS per second, not the number of
BYTES, as FP was doing.

So these two factors led me to believe that FP was uploading at about 1/10
the speed of FTP.

Last night, as the first step in sussing all this out, I tried sending ONE
1.3 meg file via both FTP and FP, and I found that the time was almost
exactly 30 seconds in each case. Then I did a little math and found that 30
seconds for a 1.3 meg file equals about 43 kbytes per second, which is what
FP reported. Then today I went into FTP and found out that it had indeed
been reporting BITS per second, not BYTES. (I have now changed it.)

So the bottom line is that there wasn't a problem after all, but it looked
like there was, due to this confluence of circumstances.

Sorry for the false alarm and thanks to all who offered assistance.

Regards,

Jay in NYC
 
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