External USB Hard-Drive - USB v1.0 or v2.0? - 5,400rpm or 7,200rpm? - 2MB cache or 8MB cache?

Wayne Youngman · Jan 7, 2004

Simple Version:

I need to backup 1GB-80GBs of data twice a week on different clients
machines. I intend to use a USB v1.0 - 2.0 enclosure.

Can the USB (v1.0 or 2.0) interface take advantage of more *advanced* drive
features over the standard 5,400rpm/2MB cache. For example would a newer
7,200rpm/8MB cache be faster at making large back-ups than the older drives
when they were being used via USB?
--
Wayne ][

(Long Version)

Hi all,

I want to *create* an external USB hard-drive that I can use to *backup*
stuff on clients machines when I do a *clean* install of WindowsXP.

I mean their MP3's, word documents, etc. . .

If the data is just like like .docs and doesn't exceed 128MB-256MB I could
just use a USB *pen-drive*, but allot of people now have many GB's of data
in My Documents (DivX, MP3, APE, etc) so I figure the best way to go is to
buy an *External* USB housing and slap in a 40-80GB disk.

I did a bit of research and noticed that *Fire-Wire* is faster in this
situation, but not all machines have a FireWire port, so that's why I am
thinking of USB. I did also notice that you can get External housing that
is both USB and FireWire but I didn't find one for sale yet in U.K.

This is the kit I am thinking of buying:
BELKIN - Hi-Speed USB 2.0 External Drive Enclosure Kit (£58.74 inc VAT UK)

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProd...=134456&Section.Section_Path=/ROOT/USB/USB20/

So anyway I am wondering whether I what sort of IDE hard disk to get?.

1) Buy nice shiny new IDE HDD 7,200rpm 8Mb cache
1a) Use this in the new USB v2.0 enclosure to max performance
1b) Use this is my 2nd PC and install old *slower*drive in new USB
enclosure

2) Just buy an older 5,400rpm 2Mb cache
2a) Slap it in the new USB v2.0 enclosure

I don't know if USBv1.1 and USBv2.0 are strong enough to *need* a blazing
drive? also what about the cache, is 2MB or 8MB gonna make any difference.

Fred H · Jan 7, 2004

Can the USB (v1.0 or 2.0) interface take advantage of more *advanced*
drive
features over the standard 5,400rpm/2MB cache. For example would a newer
7,200rpm/8MB cache be faster at making large back-ups than the older
drives
when they were being used via USB?

Have a look at this FAQ-page: http://www.usb.org/faq/ans2

Chris · Jan 7, 2004

I did a bit of research and noticed that *Fire-Wire* is faster in this
situation, but not all machines have a FireWire port, so that's why I am
thinking of USB. I did also notice that you can get External housing that
is both USB and FireWire but I didn't find one for sale yet in U.K.

You can get combo enclosures in the UK. There is one advertised on
Ebay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2776960995&category=168&rd=1

And this company has some:

http://www.rlsupplies.co.uk/cat231_1.htm

No idea what the quality is like in either case. I'm thinking of
buying one of these in the future, so let us know how you get on.

Chris

Andy · Jan 7, 2004

Have a look at this FAQ-page: http://www.usb.org/faq/ans2

Also see: http://www4.tomshardware.com/mobile/20020827/index.html

As you will have gathered from the first link, transfer via a USB 1 interface
would be very slow. From the Tomsharware link above a device using a USB 2
interface would certainly benefit from the better performance of 7200 RPM and
higher cache drives.

http://www4.tomshardware.com/storage/20030915/index.html also gives a good
indication of what can be expected from external drives.

Andy

Wayne Youngman · Jan 7, 2004

Also see: http://www4.tomshardware.com/mobile/20020827/index.html

As you will have gathered from the first link, transfer via a USB 1 interface
would be very slow. From the Tomsharware link above a device using a USB 2
interface would certainly benefit from the better performance of 7200 RPM and
higher cache drives.

http://www4.tomshardware.com/storage/20030915/index.html also gives a good
indication of what can be expected from external drives.

Hi,
thanks for links, had a good read!. Hmmm so it would seem that the USB v2.0
interface is good enough to take advantage of the extra spindle speeds
(7,200rpm) and also the extra cache (8MB).

Will have to read a bit more. . .

Rod Speed · Jan 7, 2004

Simple Version:

I need to backup 1GB-80GBs of data twice a week on different
clients machines. I intend to use a USB v1.0 - 2.0 enclosure.

Can the USB (v1.0 or 2.0) interface take advantage of more
*advanced* drive features over the standard 5,400rpm/2MB
cache. For example would a newer 7,200rpm/8MB cache be
faster at making large back-ups than the older drives when
they were being used via USB?

Yes, but its basically just the rpm that matters.
And a housing that supports the fastest firewire
in spades. It may be worth adding the fastest
firewire to the PCs for the better speed.

And cooling can be a problem with 7200 rpm drives in external
housings that dont deliberately attempt to cool the drive somehow,
either with a fan or excellent conduction to a metal case etc.

(Long Version)

I want to *create* an external USB hard-drive that I can use to *backup*
stuff on clients machines when I do a *clean* install of WindowsXP.

I mean their MP3's, word documents, etc. . .

If the data is just like like .docs and doesn't exceed 128MB-256MB I could
just use a USB *pen-drive*, but allot of people now have many GB's of data
in My Documents (DivX, MP3, APE, etc) so I figure the best way to go is to
buy an *External* USB housing and slap in a 40-80GB disk.
Sure.

I did a bit of research and noticed that *Fire-Wire* is faster
in this situation, but not all machines have a FireWire port,

But it doesnt cost much to add firewire to a PC that doesnt have it.

so that's why I am thinking of USB.

Makes more sense to get a combo housing that does both.

I did also notice that you can get External housing that is both
USB and FireWire but I didn't find one for sale yet in U.K.

Cant have looked very hard.

This is the kit I am thinking of buying:
BELKIN - Hi-Speed USB 2.0 External Drive Enclosure Kit (£58.74 inc VAT UK)
http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProd...=134456&Section.Section_Path=/ROOT/USB/USB20/

So anyway I am wondering whether I what sort of IDE hard disk to get?.

1) Buy nice shiny new IDE HDD 7,200rpm 8Mb cache

The cache isnt relevant.

1a) Use this in the new USB v2.0 enclosure to max performance
1b) Use this is my 2nd PC and install old *slower*drive in new USB enclosure

That last would give the better overall performance.

2) Just buy an older 5,400rpm 2Mb cache
2a) Slap it in the new USB v2.0 enclosure

I don't know if USBv1.1 and USBv2.0 are
strong enough to *need* a blazing drive?

You'll find that USB 1.1 is irritatingly slow if you move that 10GBs
much. Well worth adding USB2 to that dinosaur or firewire.

also what about the cache, is 2MB or 8MB gonna make any difference.

Nope. It isnt even noticeable with a desktop PC with a
double blind trial without being allowed to use a benchmark.
That sort of copying of a decent quantity of data by one
app isnt an op that the cache makes much difference with.

Rod Speed · Jan 7, 2004

Wayne Youngman said:
Hi,
thanks for links, had a good read!. Hmmm so it would seem that the USB v2.0
interface is good enough to take advantage of the extra spindle speeds
(7,200rpm) and also the extra cache (8MB).

Not with your sort of use with the cache.

Folkert Rienstra · Jan 7, 2004

Also see: http://www4.tomshardware.com/mobile/20020827/index.html

As you will have gathered from the first link, transfer via a USB 1 inter-
face would be very slow. From the Tomsharware link above a device using

a USB 2 interface would certainly benefit from the better performance
of 7200 RPM and higher cache drives.

Nope, it won't. Current 5400rpm drives will easily flood USB2.

Folkert Rienstra · Jan 7, 2004

Wayne Youngman said:
Hi,
thanks for links, had a good read!. Hmmm so it would seem that the USB v2.0
interface is good enough to take advantage of the extra spindle speeds
(7,200rpm) and also the extra cache (8MB).
Nope.

Will have to read a bit more. . .

Indeed.

Wayne Youngman · Jan 7, 2004

"Rod Speed" wrote

Yes, but its basically just the rpm that matters.
And a housing that supports the fastest firewire
in spades. It may be worth adding the fastest
firewire to the PCs for the better speed.

And cooling can be a problem with 7200 rpm drives in external
housings that dont deliberately attempt to cool the drive somehow,
either with a fan or excellent conduction to a metal case etc.

Hi,
thanks Rod for your reply. I don't really have the option to install
*FireWire* adapters into every machine, but I do have FireWire in my own
machine so I will take another look for a good value *combo*
(USB2.0/FireWire) enclosure.

So the 7,200rpm will help transfer speeds? that's interesting as I wasn't
sure if the USBv2.0 specs could utilize this. . . .

Rod Speed · Jan 8, 2004

Wayne Youngman said:
"Rod Speed" wrote

Hi,
thanks Rod for your reply. I don't really have the option to install
*FireWire* adapters into every machine, but I do have FireWire in my own
machine so I will take another look for a good value *combo*
(USB2.0/FireWire) enclosure.

So the 7,200rpm will help transfer speeds?

Really depends on what you do to move the files
to and from the external drive and whether you
will ever do that using the new faster firewire 800

that's interesting as I wasn't sure if the USBv2.0 specs could utilize this. . . .

Generally they cant. I was more referring there to the
firewire alt and should have said that more carefully.

Andy · Jan 8, 2004

so I will take another look for a good value *combo*
(USB2.0/FireWire) enclosure.

See:

http://www.aldi.co.uk/specials_01_11/offers_nav.htm

160 Gig Firewire/USB2 for £120 today. I've just picked one up and my local
store (Mold, North Wales) seemed to have about 30 left.

Seems to be the same as the EZ Disk drive from:

http://www.amacom-tech.com/main.html

The Amacom drives seem to retail at around £300 VAT inc but they are only either
Firewire or USB2.

Box shows; Seagate, Ultra ATA, Smart, Firewire, USB2, Logos. 7200RPM, Vert or
Horiz mounting, On/Off switch, 2MB Cache. Model Medion MD 40308. Seems solidly
built. 3 years Guarantee.

Andy

Andy · Jan 8, 2004

so I will take another look for a good value *combo*
(USB2.0/FireWire) enclosure.

See:

http://www.aldi.co.uk/specials_01_11/offers_nav.htm

160 Gig Firewire/USB2 for £120 today. I've just picked one up and my local
store (Mold, North Wales) seemed to have about 30 left.

Seems to be the same as the EZ Disk drive from:

http://www.amacom-tech.com/main.html

The Amacom drives seem to retail at around £300 VAT inc but they are only either
Firewire or USB2.

Box shows; Seagate, Ultra ATA, Smart, Firewire, USB2, Logos. 7200RPM, Vert or
Horiz mounting, On/Off switch, 2MB Cache. Model Medion MD 40308. Seems solidly
built. 3 years Guarantee.

Andy

Wayne Youngman · Jan 8, 2004

"Folkert Rienstra"wrote

Nope.
Indeed.

Really depends on what you do to move the files
to and from the external drive and whether you
will ever do that using the new faster firewire 800
Generally they cant. I was more referring there to the
firewire alt and should have said that more carefully.

See:

http://www.aldi.co.uk/specials_01_11/offers_nav.htm

160 Gig Firewire/USB2 for £120 today. I've just picked one up and my local
store (Mold, North Wales) seemed to have about 30 left.

Seems to be the same as the EZ Disk drive from:

http://www.amacom-tech.com/main.html

The Amacom drives seem to retail at around £300 VAT inc but they are only either
Firewire or USB2.

Box shows; Seagate, Ultra ATA, Smart, Firewire, USB2, Logos. 7200RPM, Vert or
Horiz mounting, On/Off switch, 2MB Cache. Model Medion MD 40308. Seems solidly
built. 3 years Guarantee.

Hi gentlemen,
thanks for your comments. It interesting to notice how firewire is faster
than usb2.0, even though usb2.0 has the higher throughput spec. Anyway I am
not intending to do any A/V editing with this *external drive*, just to be
able to back-up a load of data before the system is *reformatted*. For
compatibility sake I think usb1.0/2.0 is the way to go.

Andy: thanks for *ALDI* link, never heard of them before. Interesting to
see that they are offering:
http://www.aldi.co.uk/specials_01_11/cactus_assortment.html ?

That external drive seems very good value, almost too good? hmmm. I ordered
last night a Belkin Hi-Speed USB 2.0 External Drive Enclosure Kit F5U209uk
(£58.74) in which I will slap either an older drive or a new 80GB one, but
please post back how u get on with that *ALDI* special!

One more quick question, would an older computer have a problem
*recognising* a huge disk capacity if it was via the USB interface?

Rod Speed · Jan 8, 2004

Wayne Youngman said:
<Andy> wrote

Hi gentlemen,
thanks for your comments. It interesting to
notice how firewire is faster than usb2.0, even
though usb2.0 has the higher throughput spec.

Yeah, basically the result of the firewire protocol being optimised
for the movement of bulk data and USB being a lot more than just that.

Anyway I am not intending to do any A/V editing with
this *external drive*, just to be able to back-up a load
of data before the system is *reformatted*. For
compatibility sake I think usb1.0/2.0 is the way to go.

Yeah, spose so. While firewire is faster, the difference
isnt huge and it does limit your choice considerably.

Andy: thanks for *ALDI* link, never heard of them before.

They're doing that world wide now, interesting concept.

Interesting to see that they are offering:
http://www.aldi.co.uk/specials_01_11/cactus_assortment.html ?

That external drive seems very good value, almost too good? hmmm.

They appear to be pricing that stuff very aggressively to
get people thru their doors, presumably hoping they will
continue to use their stores for food purchases in the future.

Interesting concept in how to get people's attention rather
than just spending on advertising that most just ignore etc.

They've also got some very unusual ideas about even
talking to the media at all. They appear to deliberately
tease the market that way, so people will take some notice.

Going to be interesting to see how they go over say a decade or more.

I ordered last night a Belkin Hi-Speed USB 2.0 External
Drive Enclosure Kit F5U209uk (£58.74) in which I will slap
either an older drive or a new 80GB one, but please post
back how u get on with that *ALDI* special!

The main potential problem with aldi specials is ongoing
support. Be interesting to know what the story is there,
whether there is decent web site support for drivers etc.

One more quick question, would an older computer have a problem
*recognising* a huge disk capacity if it was via the USB interface?

Should be fine as long as the bridge in the external box can handle the drive size.

48bit LBA support is an entirely ATA problem, basically
in the ata driver. Since that isnt used with USB drives, its
shouldnt be a problem. It certainly isnt with scsi for example.

It would be worth checking that the external box does
have support for drives over 137GB in the bridge used
inside the box tho. Not all of the bridge chips do and its
possible that this model is being run out because it doesnt.

Andy · Jan 8, 2004

The main potential problem with aldi specials is ongoing
support.

A friend of mine bought a Medion Laptop from Aldi about 18 months ago. I was
sceptical about support if he were ever to need it. He had a problem recently
and contacted the Medion UK support number. They gave him the number of a
courier to arrange collection at their expense and his convenience. They rang
him a day or so later to tell him that they'd received his machine. They rang
again a couple of days later to tell him what the problem was and that it was
now fixed. They then advised him that it was on it's way back and gave him
details to contact the courier have it delivered at his convenience. You cannot
complain at that. That's much better service than I and other have had from
Dell!!

Andy

Wayne Youngman · Jan 8, 2004

It would be worth checking that the external box does
have support for drives over 137GB in the bridge used
inside the box tho. Not all of the bridge chips do and its
possible that this model is being run out because it doesn't.

Hi,
thanks for info. The particular model I bought goes up to 120GB I think
(ATA/100), that should more than cover me for my needs, however my point was
would I be able to use that with an older USB enabled system that can't
support large drives, but you made it clear that it probably will be fine.

External USB Hard-Drive - USB v1.0 or v2.0? - 5,400rpm or 7,200rpm? - 2MB cache or 8MB cache?

Wayne Youngman

Fred H

Chris

Andy

Wayne Youngman

Rod Speed

Rod Speed

Folkert Rienstra

Folkert Rienstra

Wayne Youngman

Rod Speed

Andy

Andy

Wayne Youngman

Rod Speed

Andy

Wayne Youngman