External 5.25 inch floppy drive for computer?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brian
  • Start date Start date
B

Brian

Is there some way I can connect a 5.25 inch floppy drive to a computer
so I can read my old floppy disks. I want to copy my old disks to CD.

I've heard of people using external cases that can contain a CD writer
or hard drive. Would I be able to put a 1.2 meg floppy drive in an
external case and connect it to usb or firewire port?

Regards Brian
 
Is there some way I can connect a 5.25 inch floppy drive to a computer
so I can read my old floppy disks. I want to copy my old disks to CD.
Click to expand...

There used to be external floppy drive but it used weird 37 pin
connector and a floppy drive board with the connector port. Those
pretty much went out when 3.5" drives became standard.
I've heard of people using external cases that can contain a CD writer
or hard drive. Would I be able to put a 1.2 meg floppy drive in an
external case and connect it to usb or firewire port?
Click to expand...

I don't think there are a way of getting external 5.25 drive to work
on Firewire or USB without building custom interface. An used XT or
286 with null modem cable might be far cheaper. Or cheaper yet, just
plug an internal one in your current PC.
 
The simple way is to just substitute your 5.25
for the 3.5 temporarily. Just let it hang out
the side of the computer. Then change the BIOS
settings for the floppy. Most modern machines
only allow one floppy at a time.
 
Look in your BIOS if there is support for drive B, if so get a two-head cable.

To use USB, you would need the bridge board from an external 3.5 floppy, and a
5" enclosure. However, the bridge boards may be limited to 3.5.
 
Pen said:
The simple way is to just substitute your 5.25
for the 3.5 temporarily. Just let it hang out
the side of the computer. Then change the BIOS
settings for the floppy. Most modern machines
only allow one floppy at a time.
Click to expand...

I have a feeling last time I checked the 5.25 inch 1.2 meg drive it
had a larger, or different type connection on the back of the drive
compared to the 3.5 inch 1.44 meg drive.

Regards Brian
 
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Brian said:
I have a feeling last time I checked the 5.25 inch 1.2 meg drive it
had a larger, or different type connection on the back of the drive
compared to the 3.5 inch 1.44 meg drive.

Regards Brian
Click to expand...
You're right, 5.25" drive use a "card edge" connector, so you need to use
a cable with a card-edge connector. Most cables have both types, but another
solution is to use an adaptor from the card-edge connector to the male
pins.

A question: can't PCs accept at least 2 floppies A and B in their BIOS?
If yours only accepts one, you could certainly plug in a floppy controller
board. These are cheap and accept 2 drives, or even 4 drives if there are
2 floppy connectors. If there is a conflict with the build-in controller,
there must be a jumper or dip switch on the MB to disable it.

Louis-Luc
 
I have a feeling last time I checked the 5.25 inch 1.2 meg drive it
had a larger, or different type connection on the back of the drive
compared to the 3.5 inch 1.44 meg drive.
Click to expand...

You're right. 3.5 used IDC while 5.25" used edge connector. Both can
use the same floppy drive port on the mainboard.
 
Many (all?) older machines were happy to regard a single physical
drive as both A: and B:, so you could do various copying things from
A: to B: without problems. You were simply prompted to "insert disk
for drive d:" as appropriate. Don't modern machines allow this?

The first PC clone I owned (quite a few years ago) was a Logi XT. I
wanted both 5.25" and the then new 3.5" 720 KB drives fitted. The
latter couldn't be fitted as standard and had to be fitted as
"external" (drive D: IIRC) even though physically installed in the
usual floppy bay. I think it was simply connected as usual, but
configured as "external" -- but I could be wrong about that.
You're right, 5.25" drive use a "card edge" connector, so you need to use
a cable with a card-edge connector. Most cables have both types, but another
solution is to use an adaptor from the card-edge connector to the male
pins.

A question: can't PCs accept at least 2 floppies A and B in their BIOS?
If yours only accepts one, you could certainly plug in a floppy controller
board. These are cheap and accept 2 drives, or even 4 drives if there are
2 floppy connectors. If there is a conflict with the build-in controller,
there must be a jumper or dip switch on the MB to disable it.
Click to expand...


Cheers, Phred.
 
Phred said:
Many (all?) older machines were happy to regard a single physical
drive as both A: and B:, so you could do various copying things from
A: to B: without problems. You were simply prompted to "insert disk
for drive d:" as appropriate. Don't modern machines allow this?
Click to expand...

Cheers, Phred.
Click to expand...


Hello, Phred:

My first computer was a Pionex 486DX2/66, purchased in 1995, since
"retired." It came with both 5.25" and 3.5" high density floppies (A: &
B:, respectively), installed; using the XCOPY command, in DOS, I could
copy from one drive to the other.


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>
 
<edited, for brevity>
Click to expand...
My first computer was a Pionex 486DX2/66, purchased in 1995, since
"retired." It came with both 5.25" and 3.5" high density floppies (A: &
B:, respectively), installed; using the XCOPY command, in DOS, I could
copy from one drive to the other.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've known several such machines as it was my standard config
since my 386SX-16 of some years ago (1*1.2MB and 1*1.44MB). But more
recent machines have tended to be just 1*1.44MB plus 1*CD-R/CD-RW; and
the very latest I've met (Dell 4600) has dropped the FDD as standard,
though still available as an option.

My original comment related to the ability of an early PC to see a
single physical FDD as logically *both* A: and B: drives.

Hmm... now you've got me intrigued! Hang on... Waddayano!
Just tried DISKCOPY A: B: on this machine (Dell 4100, WinME, single
1.44MB FDD) and it did the job okay BUT when it came to inserting the
target disk it said to insert it in A:, which was a bit confusing.

So then tried XCOPY A:\filename B: and got "Invalid file
specification". So tried plain old DOS COPY and things then went a
bit pear shaped:
1. COPY picked up the file okay from A: and asked for a disk in B:
2. Put disk in "B:" and got screen flash as DOS went to full screen!
3. It then asked for disk in A: and checked it out.
4. After a bit more of this A:/B: stuff at full screen it actually
made the copy okay, but the process was less than convincing!
I don't recommend this technique as it's a bit startling! AFAICS
it would be more convenient, and confidence building, to go A:/C:/A:
if you really needed to do this sort of thing on a modern PC.

Cheers, Phred.
 
Many (all?) older machines were happy to regard a single physical
drive as both A: and B:, so you could do various copying things from
A: to B: without problems. You were simply prompted to "insert disk
for drive d:" as appropriate. Don't modern machines allow this?
Click to expand...
Any machine sees both A: and B: whether old or new.
In DOS, the A: and B: are referred to the primary floppy connector on the
primary floppy controller (the first one found during boot-up determined
by BIOS address). Thus if there is only 1 floppy connected to that
connector, it will be seen as both A: and B:. If there are other
floppies on the system, they will need to be detected by the DOS DRIVER.SYS
line in the CONFIG.SYS file with parameters, including the /d:x where x
is the order of the drive. Thus 0 and 1 (which are A: and B:) are
implicit. However, some more expensive controllers have a special BIOS
that make drives (other than the A: and B:) natively detectable without
any DOS drivers. In fact there is the MicroSolutions CompatiCard IV on
which you select the type and position of up to 4 drives (on 2 connectors)
using DIP switches on the card itself. That even overrides the definition
in the PCs CMOS setup...

So. On your XT, your A: drive was probably on the primary controller, alone
on a cable, then you might have added that 3.5" drive with a separate
controller board at a different address, and it was seen as an external
drive (or secondary floppy bus) even though it was fitted internally. That's
why the second drive was D: (and with pre 3.3 DOS, it came as C:, BEFORE
any hard drive).

Same with IBM PS/2s. In late 80s, they came with a 3.5" drive only. Many
people ordered the external 5.25" 1.2M drive (in a nice casing with power
supply and switch), but it was connected to a secondary controller via the
DB37 connector at the back. You needed the DOS DRIVER.SYS loaded and it
was seen as D: (or even E: or F: depending on other devices) and the 3.5"
was both A: and B: just as if there were no other floppy.
If you find that IBM drive, along with a controller w/DB37 external connector,
you could surely fit this into a modern PC, assuming you have a free ISA
slot.
 
Any machine sees both A: and B: whether old or new.
In DOS, the A: and B: are referred to the primary floppy connector on the
primary floppy controller (the first one found during boot-up determined
by BIOS address). Thus if there is only 1 floppy connected to that
connector, it will be seen as both A: and B:. If there are other
floppies on the system, they will need to be detected by the DOS DRIVER.SYS
line in the CONFIG.SYS file with parameters, including the /d:x where x
is the order of the drive. Thus 0 and 1 (which are A: and B:) are
implicit. However, some more expensive controllers have a special BIOS
that make drives (other than the A: and B:) natively detectable without
any DOS drivers. In fact there is the MicroSolutions CompatiCard IV on
which you select the type and position of up to 4 drives (on 2 connectors)
using DIP switches on the card itself. That even overrides the definition
in the PCs CMOS setup...

So. On your XT, your A: drive was probably on the primary controller, alone
on a cable, then you might have added that 3.5" drive with a separate
controller board at a different address, and it was seen as an external
drive (or secondary floppy bus) even though it was fitted internally. That's
why the second drive was D: (and with pre 3.3 DOS, it came as C:, BEFORE
any hard drive).

Same with IBM PS/2s. In late 80s, they came with a 3.5" drive only. Many
people ordered the external 5.25" 1.2M drive (in a nice casing with power
supply and switch), but it was connected to a secondary controller via the
DB37 connector at the back. You needed the DOS DRIVER.SYS loaded and it
was seen as D: (or even E: or F: depending on other devices) and the 3.5"
was both A: and B: just as if there were no other floppy.
If you find that IBM drive, along with a controller w/DB37 external connector,
you could surely fit this into a modern PC, assuming you have a free ISA
slot.
Click to expand...

<cut text from previous messages, for brevity>

Hello,

Very interesting (and somewhat arcane) information, indeed! Except, this
statement confuses me:
Thus if there is only 1 floppy connected to that
connector, it will be seen as both A: and B:.
Click to expand...

How can a single floppy be assigned two drive letters, anyway? (Besides,
partitioning is reserved strictly for hard disks, so that "trick"
couldn't work, either.)


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>
 
Phred said:
Yeah, I've known several such machines as it was my standard config
since my 386SX-16 of some years ago (1*1.2MB and 1*1.44MB). But more
recent machines have tended to be just 1*1.44MB plus 1*CD-R/CD-RW; and
the very latest I've met (Dell 4600) has dropped the FDD as standard,
though still available as an option.
Click to expand...

Hello, Phred:

I've built two better PC's, such as my PIII 600MHz main system, and never
bothered with a 5.25" floppy. Further, I replaced the Pionex's original
Chinon drives with Teac models and made the 3.5" one, the boot device.
(The hard-shelled 3.5" diskettes are far more rugged, than their flexible
5.25" counterparts, which truly are, "floppy!")
My original comment related to the ability of an early PC to see a
single physical FDD as logically *both* A: and B: drives.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, wasn't aware of that.
Hmm... now you've got me intrigued! Hang on... Waddayano!
Just tried DISKCOPY A: B: on this machine (Dell 4100, WinME, single
1.44MB FDD) and it did the job okay BUT when it came to inserting the
target disk it said to insert it in A:, which was a bit confusing.

So then tried XCOPY A:\filename B: and got "Invalid file
specification". So tried plain old DOS COPY and things then went a
bit pear shaped:
1. COPY picked up the file okay from A: and asked for a disk in B:
2. Put disk in "B:" and got screen flash as DOS went to full screen!
3. It then asked for disk in A: and checked it out.
4. After a bit more of this A:/B: stuff at full screen it actually
made the copy okay, but the process was less than convincing!
I don't recommend this technique as it's a bit startling! AFAICS
it would be more convenient, and confidence building, to go A:/C:/A:
if you really needed to do this sort of thing on a modern PC.

Cheers, Phred.
Click to expand...

Oh, I neglected to cite an important step, before. First, for everybody's
benefit, is an example of the XCOPY command:

XCOPY A: B: <enter>

After the copy is executed, type the following:

LABEL B:XXXXXXXX_X <enter>

[Note: Substitute the source disk's (A:) "volume number," for
XXXXXXXX_X, above. Also, <enter> simply means to press the "Enter" key.]

Here's a Web page, explaining XCOPY in greater detail (including various
"switches"):

Commands - XCOPY
http://home.earthlink.net/~rlively/MANUALS/COMMANDS/X/XCOPY.HTM#Diskcopy

Good luck!


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>
 
John Turco said:
Phred said:
Yeah, I've known several such machines as it was my standard config
since my 386SX-16 of some years ago (1*1.2MB and 1*1.44MB). But more
recent machines have tended to be just 1*1.44MB plus 1*CD-R/CD-RW; and
the very latest I've met (Dell 4600) has dropped the FDD as standard,
though still available as an option.
Click to expand...

Hello, Phred:

I've built two better PC's, such as my PIII 600MHz main system, and never
bothered with a 5.25" floppy. Further, I replaced the Pionex's original
Chinon drives with Teac models and made the 3.5" one, the boot device.
(The hard-shelled 3.5" diskettes are far more rugged, than their flexible
5.25" counterparts, which truly are, "floppy!")
My original comment related to the ability of an early PC to see a
single physical FDD as logically *both* A: and B: drives.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, wasn't aware of that.
Hmm... now you've got me intrigued! Hang on... Waddayano!
Just tried DISKCOPY A: B: on this machine (Dell 4100, WinME, single
1.44MB FDD) and it did the job okay BUT when it came to inserting the
target disk it said to insert it in A:, which was a bit confusing.

So then tried XCOPY A:\filename B: and got "Invalid file
specification". So tried plain old DOS COPY and things then went a
bit pear shaped:
1. COPY picked up the file okay from A: and asked for a disk in B:
2. Put disk in "B:" and got screen flash as DOS went to full screen!
3. It then asked for disk in A: and checked it out.
4. After a bit more of this A:/B: stuff at full screen it actually
made the copy okay, but the process was less than convincing!
I don't recommend this technique as it's a bit startling! AFAICS
it would be more convenient, and confidence building, to go A:/C:/A:
if you really needed to do this sort of thing on a modern PC.

Cheers, Phred.
Click to expand...

Oh, I neglected to cite an important step, before. First, for everybody's
benefit, is an example of the XCOPY command:

XCOPY A: B: <enter>

After the copy is executed, type the following:

LABEL B:XXXXXXXX_X <enter>

[Note: Substitute the source disk's (A:) "volume number," for
XXXXXXXX_X, above. Also, <enter> simply means to press the "Enter" key.]

Here's a Web page, explaining XCOPY in greater detail (including various
"switches"):

Commands - XCOPY
http://home.earthlink.net/~rlively/MANUALS/COMMANDS/X/XCOPY.HTM#Diskcopy

Good luck!


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>
Click to expand...

Is there a 32 bit version of XCopy that will copy files with long
filenames?

Regards Brian
 
John Turco said:
Phred said:
Yeah, I've known several such machines as it was my standard config
since my 386SX-16 of some years ago (1*1.2MB and 1*1.44MB). But more
recent machines have tended to be just 1*1.44MB plus 1*CD-R/CD-RW; and
the very latest I've met (Dell 4600) has dropped the FDD as standard,
though still available as an option.
Click to expand...

Hello, Phred:

I've built two better PC's, such as my PIII 600MHz main system, and never
bothered with a 5.25" floppy. Further, I replaced the Pionex's original
Chinon drives with Teac models and made the 3.5" one, the boot device.
(The hard-shelled 3.5" diskettes are far more rugged, than their flexible
5.25" counterparts, which truly are, "floppy!")
My original comment related to the ability of an early PC to see a
single physical FDD as logically *both* A: and B: drives.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, wasn't aware of that.
Hmm... now you've got me intrigued! Hang on... Waddayano!
Just tried DISKCOPY A: B: on this machine (Dell 4100, WinME, single
1.44MB FDD) and it did the job okay BUT when it came to inserting the
target disk it said to insert it in A:, which was a bit confusing.

So then tried XCOPY A:\filename B: and got "Invalid file
specification". So tried plain old DOS COPY and things then went a
bit pear shaped:
1. COPY picked up the file okay from A: and asked for a disk in B:
2. Put disk in "B:" and got screen flash as DOS went to full screen!
3. It then asked for disk in A: and checked it out.
4. After a bit more of this A:/B: stuff at full screen it actually
made the copy okay, but the process was less than convincing!
I don't recommend this technique as it's a bit startling! AFAICS
it would be more convenient, and confidence building, to go A:/C:/A:
if you really needed to do this sort of thing on a modern PC.

Cheers, Phred.
Click to expand...

Oh, I neglected to cite an important step, before. First, for everybody's
benefit, is an example of the XCOPY command:

XCOPY A: B: <enter>

After the copy is executed, type the following:

LABEL B:XXXXXXXX_X <enter>

[Note: Substitute the source disk's (A:) "volume number," for
XXXXXXXX_X, above. Also, <enter> simply means to press the "Enter" key.]

Here's a Web page, explaining XCOPY in greater detail (including various
"switches"):

Commands - XCOPY
http://home.earthlink.net/~rlively/MANUALS/COMMANDS/X/XCOPY.HTM#Diskcopy

Good luck!


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>
Click to expand...

Is there a 32 bit version of XCopy that will copy files with long
filenames?

Regards Brian
 
John Turco said:
Phred said:
Phred wrote:
The simple way is to just substitute your 5.25
for the 3.5 temporarily. Just let it hang out
the side of the computer. Then change the BIOS
settings for the floppy. Most modern machines
only allow one floppy at a time.

Many (all?) older machines were happy to regard a single physical
drive as both A: and B:, so you could do various copying things from
A: to B: without problems. You were simply prompted to "insert disk
for drive d:" as appropriate. Don't modern machines allow this?
<edited, for brevity>

My first computer was a Pionex 486DX2/66, purchased in 1995, since
"retired." It came with both 5.25" and 3.5" high density floppies (A: &
B:, respectively), installed; using the XCOPY command, in DOS, I could
copy from one drive to the other.

Yeah, I've known several such machines as it was my standard config
since my 386SX-16 of some years ago (1*1.2MB and 1*1.44MB). But more
recent machines have tended to be just 1*1.44MB plus 1*CD-R/CD-RW; and
the very latest I've met (Dell 4600) has dropped the FDD as standard,
though still available as an option.
Click to expand...

Hello, Phred:

I've built two better PC's, such as my PIII 600MHz main system, and never
bothered with a 5.25" floppy. Further, I replaced the Pionex's original
Chinon drives with Teac models and made the 3.5" one, the boot device.
(The hard-shelled 3.5" diskettes are far more rugged, than their flexible
5.25" counterparts, which truly are, "floppy!")
My original comment related to the ability of an early PC to see a
single physical FDD as logically *both* A: and B: drives.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, wasn't aware of that.
Hmm... now you've got me intrigued! Hang on... Waddayano!
Just tried DISKCOPY A: B: on this machine (Dell 4100, WinME, single
1.44MB FDD) and it did the job okay BUT when it came to inserting the
target disk it said to insert it in A:, which was a bit confusing.

So then tried XCOPY A:\filename B: and got "Invalid file
specification". So tried plain old DOS COPY and things then went a
bit pear shaped:
1. COPY picked up the file okay from A: and asked for a disk in B:
2. Put disk in "B:" and got screen flash as DOS went to full screen!
3. It then asked for disk in A: and checked it out.
4. After a bit more of this A:/B: stuff at full screen it actually
made the copy okay, but the process was less than convincing!
I don't recommend this technique as it's a bit startling! AFAICS
it would be more convenient, and confidence building, to go A:/C:/A:
if you really needed to do this sort of thing on a modern PC.
Click to expand...

Oh, I neglected to cite an important step, before. First, for everybody's
benefit, is an example of the XCOPY command:

XCOPY A: B: <enter>

After the copy is executed, type the following:

LABEL B:XXXXXXXX_X <enter>

[Note: Substitute the source disk's (A:) "volume number," for
XXXXXXXX_X, above. Also, <enter> simply means to press the "Enter" key.]

Here's a Web page, explaining XCOPY in greater detail (including various
"switches"):

Commands - XCOPY
http://home.earthlink.net/~rlively/MANUALS/COMMANDS/X/XCOPY.HTM#Diskcopy
Click to expand...

Is there a 32 bit version of XCopy that will copy files with long
filenames?
Click to expand...

G'day Brian,

The general feeling these days seems to be that XXCOPY is the bee's
knees: <http://www.xxcopy.com/>

Cheers, Phred.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Brian said:
Is there a 32 bit version of XCopy that will copy files with long
filenames?
Click to expand...

If run in a DOS box in 32-bit Windows, XCOPY silently invokes
XCOPY32 which handles long filenames correctly. Only when run in 16-bit
DOS, with Windows not running, does XCOPY lose long filenames.
 
I've built two better PC's, such as my PIII 600MHz main system, and never
bothered with a 5.25" floppy. Further, I replaced the Pionex's original
Chinon drives with Teac models and made the 3.5" one, the boot device.
(The hard-shelled 3.5" diskettes are far more rugged, than their flexible
5.25" counterparts, which truly are, "floppy!")
Click to expand...

You should have seen the original 8" disks. Those were really floppy.
Also now you know why 5.25" were called "mini" ;)
 
Impmon said:
You should have seen the original 8" disks. Those were really floppy.
Also now you know why 5.25" were called "mini" ;)
Click to expand...


Hello,

8" floppies, eh? Some of those may have been mistaken for "flying
saucers!" <G>


Cordially,
John Turco <[email protected]>
 
Hello,

8" floppies, eh? Some of those may have been mistaken for "flying
saucers!" <G>
Click to expand...

Nah, hubcaps from '40 and '50 era cars can be mistaken for one. After
all, flying UFO are often seen as circular and not square.

Do let me know when a square UFO appears though. ;)
 
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