Expressions questions

  • Thread starter Thread starter Vey
  • Start date Start date
V

Vey

Does anyone know:
1. If the (we used to call the FP Bots, but I forget the current name)
will still work?
2. ODBC will still work the same way with asp pages?
3. Have they improved the reports so that I can look at all the sub-webs
at the same time and spot trouble?

I manage a website with about 25 users and 30 subwebs. The users are not
professionals. They run all sorts of versions of FP ranging from FP98
and FP1.0 for the Mac, right on up to the current version.

I'm trying to get a heads-up, so that I know what to tell these folks
when the trade press reports on Expression finally percolate into the
main stream press. Some of them love to upgrade immediately.

I read the MS marketing, but I'm not seeing many specifics to tell the gang.

Thanks.
 
The Expressions Web Designer newsgroup can be found here:

microsoft.public.expression.webdesigner
--
===
Tom Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
---
FrontPage Support:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
===
| Does anyone know:
| 1. If the (we used to call the FP Bots, but I forget the current name)
| will still work?
| 2. ODBC will still work the same way with asp pages?
| 3. Have they improved the reports so that I can look at all the sub-webs
| at the same time and spot trouble?
|
| I manage a website with about 25 users and 30 subwebs. The users are not
| professionals. They run all sorts of versions of FP ranging from FP98
| and FP1.0 for the Mac, right on up to the current version.
|
| I'm trying to get a heads-up, so that I know what to tell these folks
| when the trade press reports on Expression finally percolate into the
| main stream press. Some of them love to upgrade immediately.
|
| I read the MS marketing, but I'm not seeing many specifics to tell the
gang.
|
| Thanks.
 
There will be a lot of changes ;-)
--
===
Tom Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
---
FrontPage Support:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
===
| Tom Willett wrote:
| > The Expressions Web Designer newsgroup can be found here:
| >
| > microsoft.public.expression.webdesigner
|
| I don't like what I am reading there.
 
I don't like what I am reading there.
Click to expand...

I can't understand why anybody would go to one of these new MS webpage
editors. They sucked you into buying and learning one product and now
instead of evolving it with new features they're abandoning you and
forcing you to buy and learn another product.

Dreamweaver is and has always been considered much superior to MS
products, so why not switch to it if you have to learn a new
application anyway? Because MS has a virtual monopoly and many
products, they can afford to capriciously abandon user bases -- like
the way they recently abandoned their Visual Basic users and are doing
to their FrontPage users now. MS has a long history of this practice.
If you switch to Expression of whatever their latest "buy and learn it
whether you want to or not" product they'll do it to you again in a
few years.

When a company has only one main product they can't afford to be
capricious with their user base. Now's the perfect time to change
horses. I'm a FrontPage user and have never used Dreamweaver. There
may be another good product out there, and if this new MS thing does
not support my existing Frontpage efforts you can be sure, if I don't
find one I'll buy a copy of Dreamweaver quickly.

-- Ken
 
Dreamweaver is and has always been considered much superior to MS
products,
Click to expand...

Well, I was using FP before there was a DreamWeaver. I was actually
playing with it before MS bought it, but didn't actually set on any live
sites. Back in the olden days, Hotdog was king.

If all I had to worry about was me, a more professional product would be
the ticket, but this site (and two others for the same organization,
that I didn't mention) are all "group" projects. In that regard, I think
I could do the same things FP can do from a management standpoint, but I
would need at least 10 more pieces of software to do it. Ten more headaches.

I think what I am going to end up doing, because with 3,000 pages on the
main site, plus 10,000 pages in two others that use third level domain
names, is not try to convert the old ones at all.

I think I will just set up another third level domain on a new server
(sans FPSE) for anyone that wants to use Expression. I'm pretty sure my
hosting company will keep these old ones up for quite a while since they
are still running FP2000SE and didn't force anyone into the FP2002
extensions or SharePoint.

Then, if the subwebmasters want to spend the time to convert everything,
that will be fine, but all new sites go on the new server.

I'm only posting all this here because I imagine there will be more
"middle-weights" like me with 100 or so FP licenses out there and tens
of thousands of pages that will have the same problem I am. I'm no Bank
of America, but 100 FP licenses ain't peanuts, either.
 
EWD is available as a free CTP download. Instead of letting your imagination
run wild, why don't you try it for free? You would be surprised how much
like FrontPage (only better) it actually is.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Professional Chicken Salad Alchemist

I recycle.
I send everything back to the planet it came from.
 
EWD is available as a free CTP download. Instead of letting your imagination
run wild, why don't you try it for free? You would be surprised how much
like FrontPage (only better) it actually is.
Click to expand...

Does it support the current extensions? That's about all that would
make it like FrontPage from my perspective.

-- Ken
 
Abandoning? FP's gonna be supported till 2009 at least. You think
Dreamweaver's gonna last forever...? Besides EWD has the same feel as FP the
transition will be a no-brainer.


|
| >Tom Willett wrote:
| >> The Expressions Web Designer newsgroup can be found here:
| >>
| >> microsoft.public.expression.webdesigner
| >
| >I don't like what I am reading there.
|
| I can't understand why anybody would go to one of these new MS webpage
| editors. They sucked you into buying and learning one product and now
| instead of evolving it with new features they're abandoning you and
| forcing you to buy and learn another product.
|
| Dreamweaver is and has always been considered much superior to MS
| products, so why not switch to it if you have to learn a new
| application anyway? Because MS has a virtual monopoly and many
| products, they can afford to capriciously abandon user bases -- like
| the way they recently abandoned their Visual Basic users and are doing
| to their FrontPage users now. MS has a long history of this practice.
| If you switch to Expression of whatever their latest "buy and learn it
| whether you want to or not" product they'll do it to you again in a
| few years.
|
| When a company has only one main product they can't afford to be
| capricious with their user base. Now's the perfect time to change
| horses. I'm a FrontPage user and have never used Dreamweaver. There
| may be another good product out there, and if this new MS thing does
| not support my existing Frontpage efforts you can be sure, if I don't
| find one I'll buy a copy of Dreamweaver quickly.
|
| -- Ken
 
EWD works with or without extensions.


| On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:08:22 -0700, "Rob Giordano \(Crash\)"
|
| >Abandoning? FP's gonna be supported till 2009 at least.
|
| Some hosts are already talking about dropping the extensions.
|
| jim
 
Okay, so where do I go to download EWD?

Kevin Spencer said:
EWD is available as a free CTP download. Instead of letting your imagination
run wild, why don't you try it for free? You would be surprised how much
like FrontPage (only better) it actually is.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Professional Chicken Salad Alchemist

I recycle.
I send everything back to the planet it came from.
Click to expand...
 
Free Trial:
http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/web_designer/wd_free_trial.aspx


Microsoft Expression Newsgroups:
microsoft.public.expression.dicussion
microsoft.public.expression.webdesigner
microsoft.public.expression.interactivedesigner

--
===
Tom Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
---
FrontPage Support:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
===
| Okay, so where do I go to download EWD?
|
| "Kevin Spencer" wrote:
|
| > EWD is available as a free CTP download. Instead of letting your
imagination
| > run wild, why don't you try it for free? You would be surprised how much
| > like FrontPage (only better) it actually is.
| >
| > --
| > HTH,
| >
| > Kevin Spencer
| > Microsoft MVP
| > Professional Chicken Salad Alchemist
| >
| > I recycle.
| > I send everything back to the planet it came from.
| >
| > | > >
| > >>Tom Willett wrote:
| > >>> The Expressions Web Designer newsgroup can be found here:
| > >>>
| > >>> microsoft.public.expression.webdesigner
| > >>
| > >>I don't like what I am reading there.
| > >
| > > I can't understand why anybody would go to one of these new MS webpage
| > > editors. They sucked you into buying and learning one product and now
| > > instead of evolving it with new features they're abandoning you and
| > > forcing you to buy and learn another product.
| > >
| > > Dreamweaver is and has always been considered much superior to MS
| > > products, so why not switch to it if you have to learn a new
| > > application anyway? Because MS has a virtual monopoly and many
| > > products, they can afford to capriciously abandon user bases -- like
| > > the way they recently abandoned their Visual Basic users and are doing
| > > to their FrontPage users now. MS has a long history of this practice.
| > > If you switch to Expression of whatever their latest "buy and learn it
| > > whether you want to or not" product they'll do it to you again in a
| > > few years.
| > >
| > > When a company has only one main product they can't afford to be
| > > capricious with their user base. Now's the perfect time to change
| > > horses. I'm a FrontPage user and have never used Dreamweaver. There
| > > may be another good product out there, and if this new MS thing does
| > > not support my existing Frontpage efforts you can be sure, if I don't
| > > find one I'll buy a copy of Dreamweaver quickly.
| > >
| > > -- Ken
| >
| >
| >
 
| On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:08:22 -0700, "Rob Giordano \(Crash\)"
|
| >Abandoning? FP's gonna be supported till 2009 at least.
|
| Some hosts are already talking about dropping the extensions.

EWD works with or without extensions.
Click to expand...

My point was, abandoning FP forces people to learn another
application.

jim
 
No it doesn't.

EWD is a very natural next stepping stone. If you were to open EWD right now
you'd be able to use it immediately if you're familiar with FP.

People that don't want to switch can keep using FP until the cows come home,
no one will stop them. Hell, I STILL use Q&A, a 20 year old DOS flat-file
database! Yep, and there's still newsgroup support for it too, even though
Symantec stopped supporting it 10 or so years ago.

So..my point is; no one is forcing anyone to use or learn anything new...



| On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:30:01 -0700, "Rob Giordano \(Crash\)"
|
| >| >| On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:08:22 -0700, "Rob Giordano \(Crash\)"
| >|
| >| >Abandoning? FP's gonna be supported till 2009 at least.
| >|
| >| Some hosts are already talking about dropping the extensions.
| >
| >EWD works with or without extensions.
|
| My point was, abandoning FP forces people to learn another
| application.
|
| jim
 
No it doesn't.

EWD is a very natural next stepping stone. If you were to open EWD right now
you'd be able to use it immediately if you're familiar with FP.
Click to expand...

You're repeating, so I'll repeat.
People that don't want to switch can keep using FP until the cows come home,
Click to expand...

Only as long as your web host continues to support the extensions, and
some are already talking about dropping them. The extensions *are*
FrontPage. Otherwise it's just another HTML editor.

jim
 
Only as long as your web host continues to support the extensions, and
some are already talking about dropping them. The extensions *are*
FrontPage. Otherwise it's just another HTML editor.
Click to expand...

This is a patently illogical statement. Apparently, FrontPage server
extensions (of which you are no doubt only referring to a few that you use)
are simply one tool of a large tool set provided by FrontPage. There are
many FrontPage server extensions, and they perform a wide variety of tasks.
Are you referring to certain FrontPage components, such as Themes,
Discussion Web, and the Visitor Counter? Are you referring to the
design-time server extensions used by FrontPage? Are you referring to the
server extensions used to publish and/or manage web sites?

FrontPage 2003 had already abandoned the development of new FrontPage server
extensions. The latest FrontPage server extensions are from 2000. Website
management, and publishing can (and will be) supported using WebDAV and FTP.
Design-time support will continue to exist, with or without FrontPage server
extensions. And the support for the existing components in use in existing
FrontPage web sites will continue; it simply will not be enhanced.
Server-side functionality will be replaced with more reliable technologies,
and you won't know the difference; the user interface will continue to hide
the complexity of what is actually happening, behind a familiar user
interface. Meanwhile, your FPSE 2000 components will continue to work.

It should be noted that if FrontPage had not been (logically) split into 2
different applications, one for SharePoint web sites, and one for all other
types of web sites, the next version of FrontPage would look and behave just
like EWD does, with the exception that SharePoint and non-SharePoint would
still be in one confusing package. So, if it makes you feel better, you can
call EWD "FrontPage 2007." Same basic (and improved, as with all new
versions) software; different name.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Professional Chicken Salad Alchemist

I recycle.
I send everything back to the planet it came from.
 
"The latest FrontPage server extensions are from 2000."

Actually, Kevin, the latest are FP 2002 extensions.
 
Oops!

--

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Professional Chicken Salad Alchemist

Big thicks are made up of lots of little thins.
 
Back
Top