eSATA (external SATA)

Timothy Daniels · Mar 14, 2007

There seems to be some confusion in the NGs about eSATA.

The most prominant features of eSATA are the longer cable
length (up to 2 meters), the cable's shielding, and the plug to
accomodate the shielding. eSATA can be used with external
adapters for both desktop PCs and laptops, and external
enclosures are available that have their own power modules
and cooling fans.

Here are some links to representative info:

Silicon Image white paper on eSATA:
https://www.sata-io.org/docs/External SATA WP 11-09.pdf

SIIG product offerrings in eSATA:
http://siig.com/productlist.asp?catid=80

SIIG PCIe/eSATA card:
http://siig.com/product.asp?catid=7&pid=1018

eSATA back panel adapter brackets:
http://www.firewire-1394.com/external-sata-solutions.htm

eSATA cables:
http://www.firewire-1394.com/sata-cables-shielded.htm

eSATA external enclosures by Kingwin:
http://kingwin.com/jt35ebk.asp
http://kingwin.com/jt35eubk.asp

Use the model nos. and the usual search engines for current prices,
i.e. NexTag.com, PriceWatch.com, PriceGrabber.com,
Froogle.Google.com, etc.

*TimDaniels*

Folkert Rienstra · Mar 14, 2007

Timothy Daniels said:
There seems to be some confusion in the NGs about eSATA.

Not in this group, unless you want to start it with this.
So why only posted to this group?

The most prominant features of eSATA are the longer cable
length (up to 2 meters), the cable's shielding, and the plug to
accomodate the shielding. eSATA can be used with external
adapters for both desktop PCs and laptops, and external
enclosures are available that have their own power modules
and cooling fans.

Here are some links to representative info:

Representative, my ass.

Silicon Image white paper on eSATA:
https://www.sata-io.org/docs/External SATA WP 11-09.pdf

SIIG product offerrings in eSATA:
http://siig.com/productlist.asp?catid=80

SIIG PCIe/eSATA card:
http://siig.com/product.asp?catid=7&pid=1018

Surely there is more than SIIG.
Obviously you are spamming for SIIG.

eSATA back panel adapter brackets:
http://www.firewire-1394.com/external-sata-solutions.htm

Well, those are obviously not eSATA.

eSATA cables:
http://www.firewire-1394.com/sata-cables-shielded.htm

Of which only the last one is eSATA.

eSATA external enclosures by Kingwin:

http://kingwin.com/jt35ebk.asp

Unfortunately it doesn't say whether it has an eSATA to SATA bridge or not.
"Interface: E-SATA Only" suggests that there is only an eSATA connector.
Want to point us out to eSATA diskdrives?

Arno Wagner · Mar 14, 2007

Previously Timothy Daniels said:
There seems to be some confusion in the NGs about eSATA.

I had not noticed...?

Arno

The most prominant features of eSATA are the longer cable
length (up to 2 meters), the cable's shielding, and the plug to
accomodate the shielding. eSATA can be used with external
adapters for both desktop PCs and laptops, and external
enclosures are available that have their own power modules
and cooling fans.

Here are some links to representative info:

Silicon Image white paper on eSATA:
https://www.sata-io.org/docs/External SATA WP 11-09.pdf

SIIG product offerrings in eSATA:
http://siig.com/productlist.asp?catid=80

SIIG PCIe/eSATA card:
http://siig.com/product.asp?catid=7&pid=1018

eSATA back panel adapter brackets:
http://www.firewire-1394.com/external-sata-solutions.htm

eSATA cables:
http://www.firewire-1394.com/sata-cables-shielded.htm

Timothy Daniels · Mar 15, 2007

"Folkert Rienstra" tried his best:

Not in this group, unless you want to start it with this.

Q.E.D. on your confusion.

So why only posted to this group?

Because you're here, Rod.

Representative, my ass.

Your ass is irrelevent, Rod.

Surely there is more than SIIG.
Obviously you are spamming for SIIG.

Very funny. Not so clever, though, Rod.

Well, those are obviously not eSATA.

You have to extract your head and read the page, Rod.

Of which only the last one is eSATA.

Two of the three cable types involve eSATA, Rod.

Unfortunately it doesn't say whether it has an eSATA to
SATA bridge or not. "Interface: E-SATA Only" suggests
that there is only an eSATA connector.
Want to point us out to eSATA diskdrives?

You are really dumb, Rod.

*TimDaniels*

Timothy Daniels · Mar 15, 2007

Arno Wagner said:
I had not noticed...?

Look around.

*TimDaniels*

galapogos · Mar 15, 2007

There seems to be some confusion in the NGs about eSATA.

The most prominant features of eSATA are the longer cable
length (up to 2 meters), the cable's shielding, and the plug to
accomodate the shielding. eSATA can be used with external
adapters for both desktop PCs and laptops, and external
enclosures are available that have their own power modules
and cooling fans.

Here are some links to representative info:

Silicon Image white paper on eSATA:https://www.sata-io.org/docs/External SATA WP 11-09.pdf

SIIG product offerrings in eSATA:http://siig.com/productlist.asp?catid=80

SIIG PCIe/eSATA card:http://siig.com/product.asp?catid=7&pid=1018

eSATA back panel adapter brackets:http://www.firewire-1394.com/external-sata-solutions.htm

eSATA cables:http://www.firewire-1394.com/sata-cables-shielded.htm

eSATA external enclosures by Kingwin:http://kingwin.com/jt35ebk.asphttp://kingwin.com/jt35eubk.asp

Use the model nos. and the usual search engines for current prices,
i.e. NexTag.com, PriceWatch.com, PriceGrabber.com,
Froogle.Google.com, etc.

*TimDaniels*

OK, I'd like to know more about eSATA so here are a few questions.

Regular USB/Firewire enclosures require a bridge chip to translate
between the interfaces. Since eSATA is native, I assume such a bridge
chip would be needed? Is the only difference the connector? In which
case the enclosure would just need a simple connection between the
eSATA and SATA connector on the host/device side. Or, are there some
other difference such as signalling level that need an IC to take care
of?

How is power usually supplied for 2.5" eSATA enclosures? I've seen
some use USB power(probably a Y cable for more current) but since an
unconfigured USB device can only draw 100mA, doesn't the enclosure
have to enumerate before it gets the full 500mA? If so wouldn't
another USB chip be needed?

Timothy Daniels · Mar 16, 2007

galapogos said:
OK, I'd like to know more about eSATA so here are a few
questions.

Regular USB/Firewire enclosures require a bridge chip to translate
between the interfaces. Since eSATA is native, I assume such a
bridge chip would be needed? Is the only difference the connector?

According to the Silicon Image white paper on eSATA,
the differences between SATA and eSATA are:

1) the cable and its connectors,
2) the higher signal levels needed to accomodate
the longer cable, and
3) the shielding and grounding requirements for the
external enclosure and the hard disk drive.

In which case the enclosure would just need a simple
connection between the eSATA and SATA connector
on the host/device side. Or, are there some other difference
such as signalling level that need an IC to take care of?

The white paper implies that with an eSATA cable of
1 meter or less, the SATA control chips should work.
The brackets listed as "SATA Internal-to-External Bracket"
should do the job in such a case:
http://www.firewire-1394.com/external-sata-solutions.htm

The white paper also mentions SATA/eSATA signal level
adapters on PCI cards for cable lengths up to 2 meters.
These currently are made by SIIG and probably others.

How is power usually supplied for 2.5" eSATA enclosures?

As far as I can see, Kingwin doesn't make eSATA enclosures
for 2.5" SATA hard drives. For 3.5" SATA hard drives,
the Kingwin website lists a plug-in power "adapter", i.e.
power supply module, for its eSATA enclosures. The
eSATA enclosures for 3.5" hard drives are models:
JT-35E-BK, JT-35EU-BK, KH-350SE-BK, and the
KH-350SEU-BK.

I've seen some use USB power(probably a Y cable for more
current) but since an unconfigured USB device can only draw
100mA, doesn't the enclosure have to enumerate before it gets
the full 500mA? If so wouldn't another USB chip be needed?

I'd not use USB power for a 3.5" hard drive. I don't know
about 2.5" hard drives powered by USB. For reliability of
any external hard drive, I'd want a cooling fan and a dedicated
power supply.

*TimDaniels*

Folkert Rienstra · Mar 16, 2007

The white paper no good to you, huh.

According to the Silicon Image white paper on eSATA,
the differences between SATA and eSATA are:

1) the cable and its connectors,

2) the higher signal levels needed to accomodate the longer cable, and

Right Timmy, so where are the drives with eSata signal drivers?

3) the shielding and grounding requirements for the
external enclosure and the hard disk drive.

The white paper implies that with an eSATA cable of
1 meter or less, the SATA control chips should work.
The brackets listed as "SATA Internal-to-External Bracket"
should do the job in such a case:
http://www.firewire-1394.com/external-sata-solutions.htm

The white paper also mentions SATA/eSATA signal level adapters

on PCI cards

So Timmy, where are the drives with eSata signal drivers?

for cable lengths up to 2 meters.
These currently are made by SIIG and probably others.

As far as I can see, Kingwin doesn't make eSATA enclosures
for 2.5" SATA hard drives. For 3.5" SATA hard drives,
the Kingwin website lists a plug-in power "adapter", i.e.
power supply module, for its eSATA enclosures.
The eSATA enclosures for 3.5" hard drives are models:

JT-35E-BK, JT-35EU-BK, KH-350SE-BK, and the
KH-350SEU-BK.

So Timmy, does it pay well to be a Kingwin shill?

I'd not use USB power for a 3.5" hard drive.

No kidding: Like you could.

I don't know about 2.5" hard drives powered by USB.

There isn't much that you really know, is there, Timmy.
Just some pretend loudmouth showoff kiddy.

Joe S · Mar 17, 2007

Look around.

*TimDaniels*

I see you.

Timothy Daniels · Mar 17, 2007

"Folkert Rienstra" , aks Rod Speed, croaked:

Right Timmy, so where are the drives with eSata signal drivers?

So who needs 'em? You're too hung up on specs and
published standards to move your bowels without a manual,
Rod.

*TimDaniels*

Odie Ferrous · Mar 17, 2007

Rita said:
And yet know this you persist on arguing with a person that has absolutely
no real world experience and just parrots manufacturer's specs and reviews.

Rita

Rita,

You obviously know your stuff - but shouldn't you open your mind to the
overall picture?

Not everyone can enjoy (for financial reasons, mainly) the security of
SCSI or SAS...

Odie

=?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?= · Mar 17, 2007

Timothy said:
So who needs 'em? You're too hung up on specs and
published standards to move your bowels without a manual,
Rod.

And yet know this you persist on arguing with a person that has absolutely
no real world experience and just parrots manufacturer's specs and reviews.

Rita

chrisv · Mar 19, 2007

Odie said:
Rita,

You obviously know your stuff

LOL!

Is that sarcasm?

- but shouldn't you open your mind to the overall picture?

or at least stop trolling?

Arno Wagner · Mar 19, 2007

Previously Odie Ferrous said:
You obviously know your stuff - but shouldn't you open your mind to the
overall picture?

Not everyone can enjoy (for financial reasons, mainly) the security of
SCSI or SAS...

Hmm. I seem to remember some recent publication that demonstrated
that while SCSI is delivering better speeds, reliability to comparable
IDE/SATA. By now I would say that matches my experience. Maybe
the perceived reliability edge of SCSI is mainly due to SCSI
being often operated in better environmental conditions
(air-conditioned server rooms, e.g.). With the about 40 Maxtor
drives (not reliable drives in ordinary conditions), I have
had reliably (one real failure, the otherfailed drives were dropped
in transport) run for > 3 years now in a climate controlled server
room, this matches my personal experience. In the same time
there was 1 SCSI disk loss in a Sun servers in the same
server room, woith about 15 or so SCSI siosk in Suns there.

Of course that is not enough for a real statistical statement,
but at least to me suggestive.

Arno

Timothy Daniels · Mar 19, 2007

Arno Wagner said:
I seem to remember some recent publication that
demonstrated that while SCSI is delivering better speeds,
reliability to comparable IDE/SATA.

That's not a complete sentence. What did the publication
say?

*TimDaniels*

Arno Wagner · Mar 19, 2007

^^ ^^
Clearer now?

Arno

That's not a complete sentence. What did the publication
say?

Folkert Rienstra · Mar 19, 2007

That's not a complete sentence.

Not enough time in a day for a babblebot.
You never know when the next brainfarct hits. (Oops, too late)

What did the publication say?

Like your bowels care, Timmy.

Folkert Rienstra · Mar 19, 2007

chrisv said:
Is that sarcasm?

No, just one troll's obvious admiration for another one.

or at least stop trolling?

Hell no. To encourage it, of course.

Timothy Daniels · Mar 20, 2007

Arno Wagner said:
Clearer now?

Yup. Did the article say that the comparison was made
under the same load conditions?

*TimDaniels*

Arno Wagner · Mar 20, 2007

Previously Timothy Daniels said:
Yup. Did the article say that the comparison was made
under the same load conditions?

I really don't know. Its several papers actually, referenced here:

http://storagemojo.com/?p=383

I also don't know whether they examined reliability per byte, which
would put SCSI at a disadvantage, since the disks are smaller in
general.

But my conclusion for the moment is that there is no estabished
''truth'' and that the market needs to be watched. Also that, like
before, the only thing that can give you reliability is redundancy,
in the form of RAID, remote mirroring and backups.

Arno

eSATA (external SATA)

Timothy Daniels

Folkert Rienstra

Arno Wagner

Timothy Daniels

Timothy Daniels

galapogos

Timothy Daniels

Folkert Rienstra

Joe S

Timothy Daniels

Odie Ferrous

=?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=

chrisv

Arno Wagner

Timothy Daniels

Arno Wagner

Folkert Rienstra

Folkert Rienstra

Timothy Daniels

Arno Wagner