DX10 cards are officially obsolete.

[William]

Microsoft announced at Siggraph 2007 that Vista SP1 will have a new DX 10.1
upgrade requiring new hardware to implement the new standard. Old DX10
hardware will not support the upcoming new standard.

See: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41577 and:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/08/11/0524250.shtml

So all the DX10 video hardware is officially obsolete. DX10 is dead, long
live DX10.1!

How wonderful. (Sure am glad I didn't rush out and purchase a new DX10
graphics board yet.)

William

 

[peter]

It really.at this point in time,does not matter if you buy a
DX9...DX10...the present games all run DX9...........and any game
manufacturer that only puts out a DX10 game is shooting himself in the
foot...Their sales will be so low..low..low. I predict that 95% of new Games
will work with DX9....they'll just be a little better with a DX10 card.
DX9 games will be with us for quite awhile yet.
peter

 

[William]

It really.at this point in time,does not matter if you buy a
DX9...DX10...the present games all run DX9...........and any game
manufacturer that only puts out a DX10 game is shooting himself in the
foot...Their sales will be so low..low..low. I predict that 95% of new
Games will work with DX9....they'll just be a little better with a DX10
card.
DX9 games will be with us for quite awhile yet.
peter

I agree, DX9 will be around for a while. I have no plans to upgrade to
Vista, even though I have a copy on the shelf. Unfortunately I would really
like to play HALO 2.

With the current backlash on DRM in England, and hopefully in the USA in the
near future, (wishful thinking) maybe MS will remove some of the DRM in
Vista. Wouldn't that be peachy.

William

 

[Roger (K8RI)]

Microsoft announced at Siggraph 2007 that Vista SP1 will have a new DX 10.1
upgrade requiring new hardware to implement the new standard. Old DX10
hardware will not support the upcoming new standard.

See: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41577 and:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/08/11/0524250.shtml

So all the DX10 video hardware is officially obsolete. DX10 is dead, long
live DX10.1!

How wonderful. (Sure am glad I didn't rush out and purchase a new DX10
graphics board yet.)

I think there is a lot missed here. I'd bet that SP1 is still going
to be backwards compatible. IOW your DX10 hardware may not be able to
run DX10.1, but Vista with SP1 will either be capable of running DX10
or DX10.1 will be backwards compatible with DX9 and 10. You will just
need to upgrade the hardware to run DX10.1.

Think of it this way, if DX10.1 is, or will be an integral part of SP1
and requires a video card update it would render all computers with
preloaded Vista inoperable. It would also render any hardware running
Vista that had not been upgraded inoperable. MS may be cash heavy but
they'd end up hungry were they to obsolete all that hardware and
render millions of machines inoperable in a single blow.

I think we will find that DX10 will remain available or DX10.1 will be
backwards compatible, or SP1 will run DX9, 10, and 10.1

 

[William]

I think there is a lot missed here. I'd bet that SP1 is still going
to be backwards compatible. IOW your DX10 hardware may not be able to
run DX10.1, but Vista with SP1 will either be capable of running DX10
or DX10.1 will be backwards compatible with DX9 and 10. You will just
need to upgrade the hardware to run DX10.1.

Think of it this way, if DX10.1 is, or will be an integral part of SP1
and requires a video card update it would render all computers with
preloaded Vista inoperable. It would also render any hardware running
Vista that had not been upgraded inoperable. MS may be cash heavy but
they'd end up hungry were they to obsolete all that hardware and
render millions of machines inoperable in a single blow.

I think we will find that DX10 will remain available or DX10.1 will be
backwards compatible, or SP1 will run DX9, 10, and 10.1

I agree their should be some level of backwards compatibility for DX10 and
DX9 boards with reduced functionality. However, If I had just purchased a
DX10 card believing it was the newest best toy on the market, and I find out
that something has changed under my feet, I would not be a happy camper.

I have been planning to purchase a new DX10 graphics board for my computer
sometime around November-December this year, providing that Vista SP1 was
released as planed sometime in November and install the two together.

It looks like graphics cards just got set back 6+ months or more in
production cycles for the boards to catch up with DX10.1. Perhaps ATI knew
this was coming for months, and that is why they haven't released anything
exciting that can do DX10 so far.

One of the requirements for DX10 certification is that the graphics board
must perform a minimum set of features as outlined in the documentation.
This is new to DX10, before this a manufacturer had choices which features
the board would perform. Not so with DX10, either you do them, or you are
not DX10 certified.

This is a mess, if MS is going to move the goal post around, the graphics
makers are not going to be happy, let alone the consumers. This all comes
on top of the '07 Christmas season. Perhaps this is just one of those trial
balloons MS is famous about sending out to see what happens. This is all
strange to me.

William

 

[GaryP]

I'm holding out until DX 10.3 comes out..

;-)

 

[Benjamin Gawert]

* William:

Microsoft announced at Siggraph 2007 that Vista SP1 will have a new DX 10.1
upgrade requiring new hardware to implement the new standard. Old DX10
hardware will not support the upcoming new standard.

See: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41577 and:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/08/11/0524250.shtml

So all the DX10 video hardware is officially obsolete. DX10 is dead, long
live DX10.1!

What a nonsense! Especially the topic "DX10 cards are officially
obsolete" is just plain stupid (but then, you're referring to the
inquirer so that explains all).

How can current DX10 gfx cards that offer features that still aren't
used by any application or game be already "outdated"? Just because MS
announced the next DX revision?

Maybe it's indeed new for you, but it's quite normal that DX releases
are evolving. You must live behind the moon to be surprised that now
that DX10 is out MS works on the next revision.

But contrary to what bullshitter inquirer says DX10 cards aren't
automatically obsolete, especially since DX10.1 until now is basically
paperware. And even when DX10.1 comes out current DX10 cards are not
obsolete because they still will run everything that comes out at that
time, especially since DX10-only applications will be quite rare for
some time now.

But feel free to wait for DX10.1 cards, but at the time they appear
there probably is already the next release of DX (DX10.2?) that has been
anounced. So you'd better wait for DX10.2 hardware, DX10.3 hardware, or
whatever follows that.

Really, it wouldn't hurt to think first before copying every shit that's
written on some website. Especially if it's the inquirer.

Benjamin

 

[William]

* William:


What a nonsense! Especially the topic "DX10 cards are officially obsolete"
is just plain stupid (but then, you're referring to the inquirer so that
explains all).

How can current DX10 gfx cards that offer features that still aren't used
by any application or game be already "outdated"? Just because MS
announced the next DX revision?

Maybe it's indeed new for you, but it's quite normal that DX releases are
evolving. You must live behind the moon to be surprised that now that DX10
is out MS works on the next revision.

But contrary to what bullshitter inquirer says DX10 cards aren't
automatically obsolete, especially since DX10.1 until now is basically
paperware. And even when DX10.1 comes out current DX10 cards are not
obsolete because they still will run everything that comes out at that
time, especially since DX10-only applications will be quite rare for some
time now.

But feel free to wait for DX10.1 cards, but at the time they appear there
probably is already the next release of DX (DX10.2?) that has been
anounced. So you'd better wait for DX10.2 hardware, DX10.3 hardware, or
whatever follows that.

Really, it wouldn't hurt to think first before copying every shit that's
written on some website. Especially if it's the inquirer.

Benjamin

Sounds like you purchased a DX10 card.

Shoot the messenger all you want. MS made the announcement, it's their
words, not mine, so take from it what you want.

How many versions of DX9 do you know of? Never mind, too much non-sequitur,
strawman argument, no good Scotchman argument, ad hominem attack to bother
with.

Have a good day.

William

 

[GMAN]

Microsoft announced at Siggraph 2007 that Vista SP1 will have a new DX 10.1
upgrade requiring new hardware to implement the new standard. Old DX10
hardware will not support the upcoming new standard.

WTF is wrong with MS????

 

[Les Steel]

Microsoft announced at Siggraph 2007 that Vista SP1 will have a new DX 10.1
upgrade requiring new hardware to implement the new standard. Old DX10
hardware will not support the upcoming new standard.

See: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41577 and:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/08/11/0524250.shtml

So all the DX10 video hardware is officially obsolete. DX10 is dead, long
live DX10.1!

How wonderful. (Sure am glad I didn't rush out and purchase a new DX10
graphics board yet.)

William

follow on article

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41643

 

[Benjamin Gawert]

* William:

Sounds like you purchased a DX10 card.

Right, I have a DX10 card (Quadro FX4600) but I didn't buy it because of
DX10 but simply because it performs way better than any other gfx card
out there (except the Quadro FX5600 of course).

Shoot the messenger all you want. MS made the announcement, it's their
words, not mine, so take from it what you want.

How many versions of DX9 do you know of?

There is DX9, there is DX9a, there is DX9b, and there are several
releases of DX9c.

And of course there also have been the predecessors:

DX8.1
DX8
DX7a
DX7
DX6
DX5
DX4
DX3a
DX3
DX2a
DX2
DX1

So in what regard is the announcement of DX10.1 different than it was in
previous times?

Benjamin

 

[William]

* William:


Right, I have a DX10 card (Quadro FX4600) but I didn't buy it because of
DX10 but simply because it performs way better than any other gfx card out
there (except the Quadro FX5600 of course).


There is DX9, there is DX9a, there is DX9b, and there are several releases
of DX9c.

And of course there also have been the predecessors:

DX8.1
DX8
DX7a
DX7
DX6
DX5
DX4
DX3a
DX3
DX2a
DX2
DX1

So in what regard is the announcement of DX10.1 different than it was in
previous times?

Benjamin

MS requires that all the specifications of DX10 be implemented for
certification. Before DX10, manufacturers had choices on what features they
complied with and still be certified on the current DX standard. Not any
more. If a manufacturer wants DX10 or DX10.1 certification, then they must
meat all the specifications in that format. This forces the manufacturer's
hand, and gives the consumer the ability to identify what hardware meets the
new standards or not. Money, money, money.

Of course you already know this.

Benjamin, please, you need to study Interpersonal Communications, and the
understanding of emotive words and how they control communications. You
over compensate for lesser developed skills by using emotive words such as
'No', 'BS', 'stupid', 'nonsense', vulgar language, and 'you must live behind
the moon' (at least that was entertaining to read). It tells me nothing
about the subject, but everything about you. You use them to belittle the
other person, and that is not conducive to learning.

Your technical skills are top-rate, but your communications skills do you a
disservice.

William

 

[William]

follow on article

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41643

I agree with that:

"The larger issues of whether to go with DX10 or not are related to market
share - and interestingly the rate of OS upgrade seems to be the limiting
factor. There are about 4x as many gamers with a DX10 graphics card and XP
out there as there are with a DX10 card and Vista, and although even with
the XP users in there right now we're still only talking about 10% of the
player base overall. "

That's what I've been reading all over the enthusiast / gaming net. Hardly
anyone is excited by Vista so far. To slow, to DRM'ed out to be upgraded
too. Most people are waiting for things to change, get faster, loose some of
the bloatware. We'll see.

Thank you Les for the link. Slashdot has not done a follow up yet. Probably
won't.

William

 

[Benjamin Gawert]

* William:

MS requires that all the specifications of DX10 be implemented for
certification. Before DX10, manufacturers had choices on what features they
complied with and still be certified on the current DX standard. Not any
more. If a manufacturer wants DX10 or DX10.1 certification, then they must
meat all the specifications in that format. This forces the manufacturer's
hand, and gives the consumer the ability to identify what hardware meets the
new standards or not. Money, money, money.

Maybe you want to read this:

<http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/33868/DX10-1-DOES-Work-with-This-Gen-DX10-Cards>

"...Microsoft's Sam Glassenberg told Next-Gen in a phone interview,
"DX10.1 fully supports DX10 hardware. No hardware support is being
removed....It's strictly a superset. It's basically an update to DX10
that extends the hardware functionality slightly."

He said that the update is similar to what Microsoft did with DX9. "We
did make updates to [DX9] that extended the supported feature set.

"All the hardware is still supported, all the games still run, all the
features are still there, we've just simply extended the feature set and
the lifetime of the API," he said...."

Benjamin, please, you need to study Interpersonal Communications, and the
understanding of emotive words and how they control communications. You
over compensate for lesser developed skills by using emotive words such as
'No', 'BS', 'stupid', 'nonsense', vulgar language, and 'you must live behind
the moon' (at least that was entertaining to read). It tells me nothing
about the subject, but everything about you. You use them to belittle the
other person, and that is not conducive to learning.

You would probably have been right if I wouldn't usually include some
facts or arguments at the same time. It's not that I say "this is all
BS" and that's it.

Your technical skills are top-rate, but your communications skills do you a
disservice.

Maybe, but that's how I am. I don't like beating around the bush.

It's the same over and over again: some vendor changes anything and
immediately folks are crying that this and that won't work or that your
new hardware is useless. And as it always has been before it's just
utterly BS. May not sound nice, I admit. But it's the truth.

Benjamin

 

[Guest]

It's the same over and over again: some vendor changes anything and
immediately folks are crying that this and that won't work or that your
new hardware is useless. And as it always has been before it's just
utterly BS. May not sound nice, I admit. But it's the truth.

People who ride the bleeding edge often wind up in these situations.
The fact is, people who splurged on the first batch of DX10 cards,
for no other reason than to brag about them, won't have full
functionality with DX10.1. Period. And I say good.

 

[Benjamin Gawert]

* (e-mail address removed):

People who ride the bleeding edge often wind up in these situations.

Well, in my experience it's usually people that *hesitated* to buy the
bleeding edge stuff that wind up. These people usually wait for the
according midrange models following the latest highend cards (which
basically is not a bad idea!), but then go crazy when reading that there
is something new on the horizon.

The fact is, people who splurged on the first batch of DX10 cards,
for no other reason than to brag about them, won't have full
functionality with DX10.1. Period.

They will lack a few functions that probably won't be used by much games
or applications, so who gives a damn? That's basically the same like the
move from DirectX 8 to DirectX 8.1.

For people that bought the first batch of DX10 cards when they came out
it's probably much more disappointing that still there are no real DX10
games out there. And even then for most gamers the move to the new DX10
cards for sure wasn't lost since these cards simply kick ass of even the
fastest DX9 card in DX9 games.

And I say good.

Why?

Benjamin

 

[Guest]

* (e-mail address removed):


Well, in my experience it's usually people that *hesitated* to buy the
bleeding edge stuff that wind up. These people usually wait for the
according midrange models following the latest highend cards (which
basically is not a bad idea!), but then go crazy when reading that there
is something new on the horizon.


They will lack a few functions that probably won't be used by much games
or applications, so who gives a damn? That's basically the same like the
move from DirectX 8 to DirectX 8.1.

For people that bought the first batch of DX10 cards when they came out
it's probably much more disappointing that still there are no real DX10
games out there. And even then for most gamers the move to the new DX10
cards for sure wasn't lost since these cards simply kick ass of even the
fastest DX9 card in DX9 games.

Under Vista? Keep guessing.

 

[Benjamin Gawert]

* (e-mail address removed):

Under Vista? Keep guessing.

No matter if under Vista or under XP.

Benjamin

 

[William]

* William:

MS requires that all the specifications of DX10 be implemented for
certification. Before DX10, manufacturers had choices on what features
they complied with and still be certified on the current DX standard.
Not any more. If a manufacturer wants DX10 or DX10.1 certification, then
they must meat all the specifications in that format. This forces the
manufacturer's hand, and gives the consumer the ability to identify what
hardware meets the new standards or not. Money, money, money.

Maybe you want to read this:

<http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/33868/DX10-1-DOES-Work-with-This-Gen-DX10-Cards>

"...Microsoft's Sam Glassenberg told Next-Gen in a phone interview,
"DX10.1 fully supports DX10 hardware. No hardware support is being
removed....It's strictly a superset. It's basically an update to DX10 that
extends the hardware functionality slightly."

He said that the update is similar to what Microsoft did with DX9. "We did
make updates to [DX9] that extended the supported feature set.

"All the hardware is still supported, all the games still run, all the
features are still there, we've just simply extended the feature set and
the lifetime of the API," he said...."

This information does not address the point I am making - Straw man
argument! You are trying to introduce an argument that I have not argued
for so you can claim victory and get me off subject. Not interested. You
have not addressed my paragraph.

Again: DX10 cards will not be certified to work on DX10.1 software. DX10
cards will run a sub-set of DX10.1, but they will not be DX10.1 certified.
Or DX10.2 or .3 ..... They will run using a sub-set, but they will not be
certified, hence the customer will not purchase them - obsolete.

You would probably have been right if I wouldn't usually include some
facts or arguments at the same time. It's not that I say "this is all BS"
and that's it.

You are not including facts addressing the points made, this is a
non-sequitur. The conclusions presented by you are not supported by the
facts given. Their is some type of disconnect going on here. We are
talking past each other. I am saying one thing, and you are repling to a
different subject.

Maybe, but that's how I am. I don't like beating around the bush.

It's the same over and over again: some vendor changes anything and
immediately folks are crying that this and that won't work or that your
new hardware is useless. And as it always has been before it's just
utterly BS. May not sound nice, I admit. But it's the truth.

This is a No Good Scotchman Argument. It has nothing to do with what I
have been posting. NO THIS IS NOT THE SAME OVER AND OVER THING AGAIN!!!!!
Gee whiz, I have completely blown past you on my points. Again: The
certification process has changed with XD10. Their is no over and over
again. This is new and to the point. DX10 is obsolete.

Benjamin

What a waste of time, we are moving further and further away from the
subject line and more and more about you and your reading comprehension
problems. I've had enough of this hijacking of the subject line. Go play
with someone else.

William

 

[William]

People who ride the bleeding edge often wind up in these situations.
The fact is, people who splurged on the first batch of DX10 cards,
for no other reason than to brag about them, won't have full
functionality with DX10.1. Period. And I say good.

He has money on the table, so he does not like the message. Been their,
done that. Nothing new.

William