Dual CPU motherboards

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Greysky

Am I the only one who seems disturbed by industry's attempt to steer me into
buying all new parts? I want to upgrade my computer to one of the new dual
cpu types, either from Intel or AMD. However in order to buy into all the
super hype surrounding these new uber-boards, I will have to get much more
than a cpu. For Intel, I will also need to get new DDR2 memory and a new
PCIx video card, as well as change to SATA hard drives. AMD appears less
stringent as I can still get away with using my old memory. Am I the only
one that appears to be um, 'upset', by the computer industry's attempt to
rob me?

Does anyone make a dual (socket 775 or 939) cpu motherboard that has AGP
for video, and uses regular old-fashioned hard drive controllers?
 
Greysky said:
Am I the only one who seems disturbed by industry's attempt to steer me
into buying all new parts? I want to upgrade my computer to one of the new
dual cpu types, either from Intel or AMD. However in order to buy into all
the super hype surrounding these new uber-boards, I will have to get much
more than a cpu. For Intel, I will also need to get new DDR2 memory and a
new PCIx video card, as well as change to SATA hard drives. AMD appears
less stringent as I can still get away with using my old memory. Am I the
only one that appears to be um, 'upset', by the computer industry's
attempt to rob me?

Does anyone make a dual (socket 775 or 939) cpu motherboard that has AGP
for video, and uses regular old-fashioned hard drive controllers?
Click to expand...
Most existing PCI-e 939 motherboards already support the dual core AMD 64
CPU's. The only thing that is required is an updated bios, and most of the
major mb manufacturers have updated bios' available.

However, I don't know about whether there are any AGP mb's that support AMD
dual core (simply because I have not checked). My Asus A8N-E supports AMD
dual core and also supports IDE drives (in addition to SATA).
 
"Greysky" said:
Am I the only one who seems disturbed by industry's attempt to steer me into
buying all new parts? I want to upgrade my computer to one of the new dual
cpu types, either from Intel or AMD. However in order to buy into all the
super hype surrounding these new uber-boards, I will have to get much more
than a cpu. For Intel, I will also need to get new DDR2 memory and a new
PCIx video card, as well as change to SATA hard drives. AMD appears less
stringent as I can still get away with using my old memory. Am I the only
one that appears to be um, 'upset', by the computer industry's attempt to
rob me?

Does anyone make a dual (socket 775 or 939) cpu motherboard that has AGP
for video, and uses regular old-fashioned hard drive controllers?
Click to expand...

Look at A8V Deluxe. It is currently at revision 2. Reuses DDR memory,
AGP video, has two PATA cables connected to the Southbridge. Closest
combination of reusability and dual core AMD capability via K8T800Pro.

http://support.asus.com.tw/cpusuppo...ype=1&name=A8V Deluxe&SLanguage=en-us&cache=1

(There is another Via based S939 board, with K8T890, and that one
doesn't handle dual core - reasons unknown. The K8T800Pro apparently
works, and that is what the cpusupport list says above.)

As for the comment about the nature of change in the industry, it
is a pretty transparent "fleecing" job. For example, if you look
at the pinout of the Intel S478 socket, and the newer Intel
S775 socket, the only difference is in the number of power and
ground pins. As near as I can tell, there aren't any significant
differences, or additional hardware capabilities brought about
by the new socket. Whether a method could have been found, to
allow more current to flow in the S478 format, is a good question.
I don't know if Intel's processors are flip-chip, or are
wire bonded, but I have heard of chips that use multiple wire
bonds, to enhance current carrying capability. Maybe Intel could have
found another way to extend S478. (I expect the S775 CPU package
is cheaper to make, so Intel is saving a few bucks on each
processor.)

For AMD, S754 and S939 were needed for the addition of onboard
memory interface. Is a built-in memory controller absolutely
essential for the new processors ? I guess one benefit, is it
might avoid patent issues, if AMD attempted to put a new bus
interface on their processor. Patents are like a mine field,
and the trick is, to innovate, without "blowing off your feet".
Adding memory interfaces might have been their less litigious
option. Hypertransport and the memory interfaces are all industry
standards of sorts, and arranging licensing might be easier that
way. I would be really interested to read the thoughts of their
architects, as to what is guiding the design direction in
processors these days... It would be sad if the lawyers called
all the shots.

Paul
 
Greysky said:
Am I the only one who seems disturbed by industry's attempt to steer me into
buying all new parts? I want to upgrade my computer to one of the new dual
cpu types, either from Intel or AMD. However in order to buy into all the
super hype surrounding these new uber-boards, I will have to get much more
than a cpu. For Intel, I will also need to get new DDR2 memory and a new
PCIx video card, as well as change to SATA hard drives. AMD appears less
stringent as I can still get away with using my old memory. Am I the only
one that appears to be um, 'upset', by the computer industry's attempt to
rob me?

Does anyone make a dual (socket 775 or 939) cpu motherboard that has AGP
for video, and uses regular old-fashioned hard drive controllers?
Click to expand...

1.) The new slots for video cards are PCI Express, often
abbreviated as PCI-E. PCI-X is something completely different
from PCI-E.

2.) Everyone is *adding* SATA controllers to their motherboards,
but they are *not* completely dropping regular EIDE controllers.
They might be cutting down on the number of EIDE controllers,
but I have yet to see an ATX or EATX motherboard without at least
two EIDE controllers. And if your new motherboard does not have
enough EIDE controllers to suit you, you can always buy a cheap
PCI card from Promise or HighPoint that will add two or four more
EIDE ports. You can also buy adapters that let you connect your
EIDE hard drives to SATA ports, although most of those adapters
do not work with optical drives.

3.) There are many dual Xeon and dual Opteron motherboards with
AGP slots. Seek and ye shall find. However, you will not be
able to use unregistered DDR with those boards.

4.) Their is not and never will be a dual socket 939
motherboard. If you want two AMD64 chips you will have to get a
dual Socket 940 motherboard.

5.) Why not get a socket 939 motherboard and put a dual-core
Athlon64 in that socket ? You get all of the benefits of having
two single core processors, and AMD's dual-core chips also
consume the same amount of power as a single core chip at the
same clock speed. This will also allow you to reuse your
current DDR. You can also get Socket 939 motherboards that have
slots for both AGP and PCI-E: re-use your AGP card for now and
still have the capability to upgrade later.
 
I presume that you're referring to dual-core CPUs, rather than dual CPU
mainboards (with two discrete sockets).

I'm not up-to-date on Intel dual-core CPUs, but I believe that none of the
new chipsets that support them are available with an AGP slot. (PCI-Express
graphics and DDR2 RAM are required, I imagine.)

In the AMD world, AGP Socket 939 boards that use the Via K8T800 Pro chipset
or the nVidia nForce 3 Ultra chipset are supposed to support the X2 CPUs. I
have an Asus A8V Deluxe (Via chipset), and Asus has released a BIOS update
for the X2 chips. I haven't tried one, though.

The A64 X2 CPUs are pretty expensive, although the new X2 3800+ has been
listed for around $400US. The 4800+ is somewhat more expensive, if you wish
to complain about being robbed. The A64 CPUs require DDR (not DDR2) at the
moment, so you may be able to re-use yours (assuming that it's PC3200). They
also support dual-channel memory mode, so it would be best to have a
matching pair.

There's a forthcoming chipset for Socket 939
(http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2471) that supports both
PCI-Express and AGP graphics natively, giving full performance with both,
but it may be a few weeks or more before products using it are available.

You'd want to compute the full system cost to fairly compare Intel and AMD
dual-core machines. (The AMD X2s are supposed to perform more nearly like
dual CPU systems, though, so just comparing prices isn't really enough
either.)

I'd expect any board for sale at this time to include at least one IDE
connector (in addition to SATA), because SATA optical drives are not yet
common. My A8V has two PATA connectors, plus one more on the Promise RAID
controller. That would support as many as 6 PATA devices. There are 2 SATA
controllers plus 2 more on the Promise controller, good for one device each,
for a total of 4.

I suggest that you check the mainboard selector at www.newegg.com. Go the
AMD compatible page, select the Socket 939 interface, and an AGP 4x/8X slot.
You'll get quite a few choices.

Regards,

Bob Knowlden


Address may be scrambled. Replace nkbob with bobkn.
 
Mark said:
Most existing PCI-e 939 motherboards already support the dual core AMD 64
CPU's. The only thing that is required is an updated bios, and most of the
major mb manufacturers have updated bios' available.

However, I don't know about whether there are any AGP mb's that support AMD
dual core (simply because I have not checked).
Click to expand...

Some do - but with a BIOS upgrade. Even within a specific model
some do and some don't - such as the Tyan S2885.

Regardless of what AMD64 motherboard you get, if using dual-core
chips is important to you then make sure you investigate
thoroughly before you buy. If a BIOS upgrade is necessary, get
the vendor to do it before they ship the board:
1.) If the current BIOS does not support dual-core, then you
need to use a single-core CPU while flashing the dual-core BIOS
upgrade. No big deal if you already have a single-core CPU on
hand that you can use for this purpose, but many people don't and
find themselves in a bit of a quandary after buying their new
motherboard and dual-core CPU.
2.) If the vendor botches a BIOS flash it is on them. If you
botch it, it can be expensive and time-consuming to fix.
 
Greysky said:
Am I the only one who seems disturbed by industry's attempt to steer me into
buying all new parts? I want to upgrade my computer to one of the new dual
cpu types, either from Intel or AMD. However in order to buy into all the
super hype surrounding these new uber-boards, I will have to get much more
than a cpu. For Intel, I will also need to get new DDR2 memory and a new
PCIx video card, as well as change to SATA hard drives. AMD appears less
stringent as I can still get away with using my old memory. Am I the only
one that appears to be um, 'upset', by the computer industry's attempt to
rob me?

Does anyone make a dual (socket 775 or 939) cpu motherboard that has AGP
for video, and uses regular old-fashioned hard drive controllers?
Click to expand...

If you remain thinking Intel is an option, then you will remain
disturbed.
 
Leythos said:
Why not just get a ASUS Xeon Dual NCCH-DL i875 800fsb.
Click to expand...

1.) No EMT64 CPUs to use with that chipset.
2.) No dual-core CPUs to use with that chipset.
3.) Two 3.6 GHz Xeon Noconas will use almost three times as much
power as a single 2.4 GHz AMD64 - and be beaten in just about
everything by the AMD64. And more power ==> more heat ==> more
noise.

The OP also needs to clarify whether he really wants/needs a
dual-socket motherboard or whether he would be satisfied with
just one dual-core CPU.
 
1.) No EMT64 CPUs to use with that chipset.
2.) No dual-core CPUs to use with that chipset.
3.) Two 3.6 GHz Xeon Noconas will use almost three times as much
power as a single 2.4 GHz AMD64 - and be beaten in just about
everything by the AMD64. And more power ==> more heat ==> more
noise.
Click to expand...

Whiel you may really like the AMD system, I've made a living designing
business networks and never had a serious issue with any Intel CPU or
Intel based server / workstation we've spec'd. I have seen numerous
problems with shops that have installed AMD based systems - and to be
completely fair, it wasn't the AMD CPU that was the problem, it was the
chipset or the motherboard in general, the AMD CPU was fine. So, when I
consider stability, life, ease of support, and such, I design around the
Intel CPU line. Power is not a concern, as a simple 550W PSU will run a
Dual Xeon system fine (with a complement of RAID arrays) and is also
needed for the AMD systems.

While Dual Core appears to be very nice, I've not seen where the
Microsoft OS's have yet come out to take 100% advantage of the chip
structure change. It's important to note that Windows 2003 does make
full use of Dual CPU's and with great efficiency, but I've not see any
updates come out that specifically mention Dual-Core.
The OP also needs to clarify whether he really wants/needs a
dual-socket motherboard or whether he would be satisfied with
just one dual-core CPU.
Click to expand...

I agree, it would be nice if people posted exactly what they want
instead of leaving us guessing about half the details.
 
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