Does FE mde need security?

[Fred Boer]

Hello:

I have successfully implemented security on a test mdb. Taking another step,
I am working on BE/FE files. My FE is an MDE file. I understand that more
restrictive permissions on the BE file overrides less restrictive
permissions on the FE. I see in the various documents that there is a great
whack of stuff I have to learn with respect to re-linking code and security,
but I want to put that off for now, and concentrate on the security and the
interaction of BE/FE files.

1. Is it necessary to apply security to the FE mde at all, given that it is
an mde?
2. When I load the FE mde, I get an Access login screen. This is the secured
BE looking for a login? What happens if I secure the Front End - would I see
two logins, one for FE, one for BE? Even as I write this question I feel
that it is a silly question, but...

I should note that this is complicated by the fact that I use Tony Toews's
AutoFE Updater- so I am kind of tackling two things at once...

Fred Boer

 

[Fred Boer]

I'm beat for today..

Well, I thought, hey, why not just *try* applying security to the FE file.
So I did. I went back to the original MDB, created a new version so that I
was the owner, used the proper workgroup, altered the permissions, converted
to 2002, compiled, removed the added "Web Components" reference (a set of
references which always causes it to bomb as an MDE, but which Access
stubbornly puts in ever time I convert from 2000 format to 2002 format), and
created the "secured" FE MDE. The FE opened, asked for a login, and then
left me staring at an empty Access main screen.

After an hour or so of changing permissions, recreating the mde, fiddling
and fussing, I realized that when I create a new .mde, Access resets the
startup options to the defaults. Which means that all that was wrong was
that I forgot to set the switchboard form to automatically startup...
<groan>

Anyway, I've decided that I need to take a step back. I'm going to ignore
the AutoFE Updater, and start from scratch with one secured FE file, and one
secured BE file, and see how it works, but, I can't take any more today. I
need some fresh air... or chocolate... or a stiff drink....

Feel free to ignore both of these posts!

Cheers!
Fred

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Boer" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.access.security
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 2:37 PM
Subject: Does FE mde need security?

 

[Joan Wild]

I'm beat for today..

Well, I thought, hey, why not just *try* applying security to the FE
file. So I did. I went back to the original MDB, created a new
version so that I was the owner, used the proper workgroup, altered
the permissions, converted to 2002, compiled, removed the added "Web
Components" reference (a set of references which always causes it to
bomb as an MDE, but which Access stubbornly puts in ever time I
convert from 2000 format to 2002 format), and created the "secured"
FE MDE. The FE opened, asked for a login, and then left me staring at
an empty Access main screen.

Why are you converting from 2000, rather than just creating it in 2002 to
begin with?

After an hour or so of changing permissions, recreating the mde,
fiddling and fussing, I realized that when I create a new .mde,
Access resets the startup options to the defaults. Which means that
all that was wrong was that I forgot to set the switchboard form to
automatically startup... <groan>

Also be careful with all your creating of new mdbs - when you import secure
objects from another mdb, they lose their permission settings.

Anyway, I've decided that I need to take a step back. I'm going to
ignore the AutoFE Updater, and start from scratch with one secured FE
file, and one secured BE file, and see how it works, but, I can't
take any more today. I need some fresh air... or chocolate... or a
stiff drink....

It's always good to take a step back. You are not alone; I still remember
when I first attempted security - it took me several tries before I 'got
it'. For what it's worth, I'd suggest you start with a single mdb, and
secure it. Once you have it working, then split it (but don't use the
splitter wizard). There will/may be just minor tweaking needed then.

Feel free to ignore both of these posts!

If you really meant that, I think you wouldn't have hit the send button, no?

 

[Jeff Conrad]

I'm beat for today..

Patience Fred, patience!

Well, I thought, hey, why not just *try* applying security to the FE file.
So I did. I went back to the original MDB, created a new version so that I
was the owner, used the proper workgroup, altered the permissions, converted
to 2002, compiled, removed the added "Web Components" reference (a set of
references which always causes it to bomb as an MDE, but which Access
stubbornly puts in ever time I convert from 2000 format to 2002 format), and
created the "secured" FE MDE. The FE opened, asked for a login, and then
left me staring at an empty Access main screen.

Fred, this might be a stupid question, but why not change your default Access format
to 2002 instead of having to covert them to 2002 from 2000? Are you needing to do additional
development in 2000 versions?

After an hour or so of changing permissions, recreating the mde, fiddling
and fussing, I realized that when I create a new .mde, Access resets the
startup options to the defaults. Which means that all that was wrong was
that I forgot to set the switchboard form to automatically startup...
<groan>

Been there many, times Fred. Seriously.
Just smack your forehead and be done with it.

Anyway, I've decided that I need to take a step back. I'm going to ignore
the AutoFE Updater, and start from scratch with one secured FE file, and one
secured BE file, and see how it works, but, I can't take any more today. I
need some fresh air... or chocolate... or a stiff drink....

It will come eventually Fred, just stick with it.
After all, you are learning from your mistakes so this is just part of your learning process.

1. Is it necessary to apply security to the FE mde at all, given that it is an mde?

That answer completely depends on the situation at hand.
In some situations just properly securing the BE will do just fine.
If you need extra security from even opening certain forms/reports
than you may consider securing the FE.

2. When I load the FE mde, I get an Access login screen. This is the
secured BE looking for a login? What happens if I secure the Front End -
would I see two logins, one for FE, one for BE? Even as I write this
question I feel that it is a silly question, but...

If you secure the BE and the FE using the same workgroup file then no,
you will not see two login screens.

I should note that this is complicated by the fact that I use Tony Toews's
AutoFE Updater- so I am kind of tackling two things at once...

I would not worry about this quite yet.
Do some more experimenting with security/permissions before heading
into that area.

 

[Fred Boer]

Dear Joan:

Why are you converting from 2000, rather than just creating it in 2002 to
begin with?

Oh, well, I'm converting because, uh.... To tell the truth, I have *no* idea
why I am converting! So, that's the first thing on my to-do list: convert
everything to 2002 and leave it that way. Funny how that has never occurred
to me!?

Also be careful with all your creating of new mdbs - when you import secure
objects from another mdb, they lose their permission settings.

Ah, something to watch for!

It's always good to take a step back. You are not alone; I still remember
when I first attempted security - it took me several tries before I 'got
it'. For what it's worth, I'd suggest you start with a single mdb, and
secure it. Once you have it working, then split it (but don't use the
splitter wizard). There will/may be just minor tweaking needed then.

Good advice. I'll do that!

If you really meant that, I think you wouldn't have hit the send button,

no?

<Smile> A perceptive comment, Ms. Wild! Of course I didn't *really* want to
be ignored; these newsgroups are one of the few places to actually discuss
Access with interested people! What I guess I should have said was: Don't
bother trying to answer my questions, since I'm pretty sure that the
questions are poorly phrased, and I realize that I need to do some more work
on my own...

I appreciate your help and interest!

Fred

 

[Fred Boer]

Hi Jeff:

Patience Fred, patience!

Fred, this might be a stupid question, but why not change your default Access format
to 2002 instead of having to covert them to 2002 from 2000? Are you needing to do additional
development in 2000 versions?

As soon as I read this, I realized I didn't really have any good reason to
do this. I'll convert to 2002 and leave it that way!

Just smack your forehead and be done with it.
Done!

If you secure the BE and the FE using the same workgroup file then no,
you will not see two login screens.

Ok, thanks...

Do some more experimenting with security/permissions before heading
into that area.

Yeah, I agree. Anyway, tomorrow I am off campus and away from computers, so
I'll be forced to take a break! Thanks for the encouragement!

Cheers!
Fred

 

[Jeff Conrad]

Hi Fred,

Ah, something to watch for!

You can also script out all the object permissions if you need to import a
fully secured database to a new container. Just use Sandra Daigle's
DbUtilities code found here:

http://www.daiglenet.com/msaccess.htm

If you need help with that someday just post back and we can walk
you through the procedure.