Disk won't spin up/Possible voltage problem

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Paul

I have a Western Digitial WD800JB. It's a 7200RPM 80GB IDE drive. It
does not spin up. With the disk out of the computer I hold it
vertically and turn the case. I can hear the platters inside turning.
I would like to determine if I am having a voltage problem. If I am
having a voltage problem I'd like to attempt to breathe enough life
into it to get my data back. Has anyone out there dealt with this
type of issue before?

It's still under warranty. Most of my data has been backed up. There
are some pictures and a few documents I'd like to recover.

TIA,
Paul
 
Paul said:
I have a Western Digitial WD800JB. It's a 7200RPM 80GB IDE drive. It
does not spin up. With the disk out of the computer I hold it
vertically and turn the case. I can hear the platters inside turning.
I would like to determine if I am having a voltage problem. If I am
having a voltage problem I'd like to attempt to breathe enough life
into it to get my data back. Has anyone out there dealt with this
type of issue before?

It's still under warranty. Most of my data has been backed up. There
are some pictures and a few documents I'd like to recover.

TIA,
Paul
Click to expand...
I doubt that it is a voltage problem, it IS possible though. IF it just
won't spin then I would guess the drive motor is shot. If you really want
to test the voltage Unplug EVERYTHING except the motherboard and the hard
drive and turn it on and see if it spins up. It *Should* spin up at this
point, assuming of course you aren't running like a 50watt power supply.
 
I've heard of people using an electric drill/screwdriver with a rubber
tip to jump start them. But you'll have to take it apart, which will
void your warranty. And there's no guarantee it will work.
Interestingly, just a couple of days ago I pulled out an old server with
an IBM Ultrastar. It no longer spins up! I'm quite sure the warranty is
expired. If so I'll try that trick.
 
Chris Stolworthy said:
I doubt that it is a voltage problem, it IS possible though. IF it just
won't spin then I would guess the drive motor is shot. If you really want
to test the voltage Unplug EVERYTHING except the motherboard and the hard
drive and turn it on and see if it spins up. It *Should* spin up at this
point, assuming of course you aren't running like a 50watt power supply.
Click to expand...

I did plug it into power with another drive and the other drive spun
up. I switched power connectors and the other drive still spun up.
This drive didn't spin either time. So, I know that my power
connectors are good. The other drive is a WD400JB. It's identical to
the dead drive except its 40GB instead of 80GB.

I'm guessing that I have to uncover the platters in order to get at
the motor and that will pretty much ruin everything since I don't have
a clean room. What are your thoughts on my chances of replacing the
motor? Any recommendations on how to proceed? I'm not looking to
save the drive, just get my data off of it.

TIA,
Paul
 
Paul,

Many will offer outlandish procedures in opening the drive and doing
this and that, which will ultimately lead to No data recovery and a
lot of frustration. If the data is extremely important, a data
recovery company is the only way to go.
 
I did plug it into power with another drive and the other drive spun
up. I switched power connectors and the other drive still spun up.
This drive didn't spin either time. So, I know that my power
connectors are good. The other drive is a WD400JB. It's identical to
the dead drive except its 40GB instead of 80GB.

I'm guessing that I have to uncover the platters in order to get at
the motor and that will pretty much ruin everything since I don't have
a clean room. What are your thoughts on my chances of replacing the
motor? Any recommendations on how to proceed? I'm not looking to
save the drive, just get my data off of it.
Click to expand...

There is practically no chance of replacing the motor. It would be easier
to buy same drive and swap platters but that is also beyond anyone not
trained in doing it.

In the past I have encountered drives which had seized bearings and opened
them, semi-gently rotated the platters a bit and managed to free them up.
The drives worked for a few moments but sooner or later (usually sooner,
even within a few seconds) they violently seize up again and can even move
themselves a few inches across a desk when it happens. You could go ahead
and try that if you simply can't/won't spend the money for a data recovery
service, but if the service is an option then do NOTHING more to the
drive, just send it directly to them.
 
If the wire to the motor is broken, or the motor is broken, your pretty much
finished.
If it's stuck you may have a shot.
Put it in the freezer for about 20 minutes. This will contract
everything.
Have your system ready, back up media ready, install it as fast as you can
and hope it spins up.
If it does, you have about 3 minutes.

Sammy
 
I have a Western Digitial WD800JB. It's a 7200RPM 80GB IDE
drive. It does not spin up. With the disk out of the computer
I hold it vertically and turn the case. I can hear the platters
inside turning. I would like to determine if I am having a
voltage problem.
Click to expand...

Measure the voltages at the drive circuit board with a digital meter
-- cheap, simple, and almost obvious. You can also measure the AC
voltages at the motor contacts, and while I don't know what they're
supposed to be, you can compare them to those of a working WD drive in
the same series, as your WD400JB may be. Be careful not to short any
contacts together or to any metal.

When you tested the drive with another power supply, did you plug it
into the 40-pin cable? If so, try it with the cable disconnected
because some drives will spin only without the cable, indicating a
problem not related to the motor.
It's still under warranty. Most of my data has been backed up.
There are some pictures and a few documents I'd like to recover.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing that I have to uncover the platters in order to get at
the motor and that will pretty much ruin everything since I don't
have clean room. What are your thoughts on my chances of replacing
the motor? Any recommendations on how to proceed?
Click to expand...

With drives about 100M-1G and larger, the moment you remove the cover
you virtually ruin the drive and at least double the cost of data
recovery.
Also WD motors seem to be installed from the inside, meaning any
replacement requires removing the platters and therefore ruining the
alignment of all but the first platter (it has the servo marks written
on it).

Since you can hear the platters turn, the motor bearings have
obviously not seized, so about the only thing lefts in the motor
itself are the windings, one of which may have shorted. But just
because a motor doesn't run doesn't mean it's bad because the real
problem could be in the chip that drives the motor, and in some
installations that chip can exceed 80C, especially if the drive is
horizontal, has less than .5" of space around it, no air blowing over
the circuit board, and the chip faces the drive body.

The only practical repair you can do yourself is a circuit board swap
from another identical WD800JB drive, but don't assume that all
WD800JBs are identical; look at the suffix to the part number to make
sure they are. I have, for example, a WD1200JB-00DUA3 and a
WD1200JB-75CRA0, and they differ in the number of platters and their
circuit board layouts (I have no idea if the boards are
interchangeable).

If you open the drive, you'll lose your drive and your data and make
data recovery cost much more. If you leave the drive closed you'll at
least get a replacement drive.
 
mr potatohead said:
I've heard of people using an electric drill/screwdriver with a rubber
tip to jump start them. But you'll have to take it apart, which will
void your warranty. And there's no guarantee it will work.
Interestingly, just a couple of days ago I pulled out an old server with
an IBM Ultrastar. It no longer spins up! I'm quite sure the warranty is
expired. If so I'll try that trick.
Click to expand...

Sometimes if just one winding is bad, the motor can be started by
rotating it about 1/8 turn, which can be done by holding the drive
horizontally and quickly twisting it. But if the problem is stiction
(rare), turning the power on and off while flicking a finger hard
against the top of the drive will often loosen it, but the drive
should sit firmly on a tabletop while this is done. When stiction
exists, turning a motor manually, even by hand, often tears a head off
one of the arms.
 
Measure the voltages at the drive circuit board with a digital meter
-- cheap, simple, and almost obvious. You can also measure the AC
voltages at the motor contacts, and while I don't know what they're
supposed to be, you can compare them to those of a working WD drive in
the same series, as your WD400JB may be. Be careful not to short any
contacts together or to any metal.

When you tested the drive with another power supply, did you plug it
into the 40-pin cable? If so, try it with the cable disconnected
because some drives will spin only without the cable, indicating a
problem not related to the motor.



With drives about 100M-1G and larger, the moment you remove the cover
you virtually ruin the drive and at least double the cost of data
recovery.
Also WD motors seem to be installed from the inside, meaning any
replacement requires removing the platters and therefore ruining the
alignment of all but the first platter (it has the servo marks written
on it).

Since you can hear the platters turn, the motor bearings have
obviously not seized, so about the only thing lefts in the motor
itself are the windings, one of which may have shorted. But just
because a motor doesn't run doesn't mean it's bad because the real
problem could be in the chip that drives the motor, and in some
installations that chip can exceed 80C, especially if the drive is
horizontal, has less than .5" of space around it, no air blowing over
the circuit board, and the chip faces the drive body.

The only practical repair you can do yourself is a circuit board swap
from another identical WD800JB drive, but don't assume that all
WD800JBs are identical; look at the suffix to the part number to make
sure they are. I have, for example, a WD1200JB-00DUA3 and a
WD1200JB-75CRA0, and they differ in the number of platters and their
circuit board layouts (I have no idea if the boards are
interchangeable).

If you open the drive, you'll lose your drive and your data and make
data recovery cost much more. If you leave the drive closed you'll at
least get a replacement drive
Click to expand...

I have measured the voltage where the power connector attaches to the
circuit board. The voltages are as marked on the board, +5V and +12V.
I didn't measure the AC voltage. I thought about comparing it to the
40GB drive but didn't do it yet. I did try to spin it up with the IDE
cable disconnected. I am restoring my system onto a second 40GB drive
while I wait for the advance replacement to arrive. When I get it
back up and running I'll try the suggestions posted.

I will measure the AC voltage to see how it compares to the 40GB
drive, try the freezer method and the quick 1/8th of a turn procedure.
If I don't have any luck with any of these I might try to find a
drive with the exact part number on ebay so I can replace the circuit
board. From the sounds of it there is a very slim chance that the
replacement drive will have a circuit board that will work with this
drive. I thought I might give it a try anyway just to see what
happens. The part number of the bad drive is WD800JB-00ETA0,
manufactured on September 16, 2003.

Thanks for all of the great suggestions so far.

Paul
 
(e-mail address removed) (Paul) wrote in message
No editing of my quote? I didn't realize that my words were so
concise and important. ;)
I have measured the voltage where the power connector attaches to the
circuit board. The voltages are as marked on the board, +5V and +12V.
I didn't measure the AC voltage. I thought about comparing it to the
40GB drive but didn't do it yet. I did try to spin it up with the IDE
cable disconnected.
Click to expand...

You may want to measure voltages elsewhere on the circuit board, such
as across any electrolytic capacitors (many are surface mount --
yellow rectangular blocks colored silver at each end), but this can be
difficult on a Western Digital drive since the components are on the
inner side and require finding where the copper traces connect to the
outer side. Generally, heavier traces indicate power and ground. Be
very careful not to short traces together if you try to measure them.
I will measure the AC voltage to see how it compares to the 40GB
drive, try the freezer method and the quick 1/8th of a turn
procedure. If I don't have any luck with any of these I might
try to find a drive with the exact part number on ebay so I can
replace the circuit board.
The part number of the bad drive is WD800JB-00ETA0, manufactured
on September 16, 2003.
Click to expand...

Be careful about the freezer method because you don't want to cool the
drive below its dew point since that can create shorts. It's safer to
cool the drive for an hour or 2 in the refrigerator.
 
(e-mail address removed) (Paul) wrote in message
No editing of my quote? I didn't realize that my words were so
concise and important. ;)


You may want to measure voltages elsewhere on the circuit board, such
as across any electrolytic capacitors (many are surface mount --
yellow rectangular blocks colored silver at each end), but this can be
difficult on a Western Digital drive since the components are on the
inner side and require finding where the copper traces connect to the
outer side. Generally, heavier traces indicate power and ground. Be
very careful not to short traces together if you try to measure them.


Be careful about the freezer method because you don't want to cool the
drive below its dew point since that can create shorts. It's safer to
cool the drive for an hour or 2 in the refrigerator.
Click to expand...

I measured the AC voltage at the motor on the dead 80GB drive compared
to the functioning 40GB drive. I tested with IDE cables connected
then disconnected. The results were the same. The 40GB drive was
showing voltage while the 80GB drive was not. Looks like a dead
circuit board so far.

I have an advance RMA from Western Digital on the way. From what I've
heard I will need a circuit board from the exact drive model that was
manufactured in the same month. What are the chances of being able to
successfully borrow the circuit board from the replacement drive that
is being shipped now just to retrieve my data?

Are there any other potential gotchas? Can I fry anything? Is it a
pain to detatch the circuit board from the motor?

TIA,
Paul
 
I measured the AC voltage at the motor on the dead 80GB drive compared
to the functioning 40GB drive. I tested with IDE cables connected
then disconnected. The results were the same. The 40GB drive was
showing voltage while the 80GB drive was not. Looks like a dead
circuit board so far.

I have an advance RMA from Western Digital on the way. From what I've
heard I will need a circuit board from the exact drive model that was
manufactured in the same month. What are the chances of being able to
successfully borrow the circuit board from the replacement drive that
is being shipped now just to retrieve my data?
Click to expand...

As soon as you pull the circuit board off the dead drive you don't have any
warranty. Expect to have to pay for the replacement drive.
 
Paul said:
(e-mail address removed) (do_not_spam_me) wrote in message

I measured the AC voltage at the motor on the dead 80GB drive compared
to the functioning 40GB drive. I tested with IDE cables connected
then disconnected. The results were the same. The 40GB drive was
showing voltage while the 80GB drive was not. Looks like a dead
circuit board so far.

I have an advance RMA from Western Digital on the way. From what I've
heard I will need a circuit board from the exact drive model that was
manufactured in the same month. What are the chances of being able to
successfully borrow the circuit board from the replacement drive that
is being shipped now just to retrieve my data?

Are there any other potential gotchas? Can I fry anything? Is it a
pain to detatch the circuit board from the motor?
Click to expand...

At least 10 years ago I had a Seagate drive (200 MB!) that would not spin up
reliably. Seagate's response was "Duh. That's really strange. We have
never heard of that before." But that was wrong. According to several
newsgroups, failing to spin up was a common problem with Seagate drives. I
bought a good drive, played with power until it spun up, copied the drive to
my new good drive, pitched the Seagate, and have never bought another from
Seagate in all these years.
 
I have an advance RMA from Western Digital on the way.
From what I've heard I will need a circuit board from
the exact drive model that was manufactured in the
same month. What are the chances of being able to
Click to expand...
< successfully borrow the circuit board from the
replacement drive that is being shipped now just to
retrieve my data?

Are there any other potential gotchas? Can I fry anything?
Is it a pain to detatch the circuit board from the motor?
Click to expand...

The drive doesn't have to be manufactured in the same month but just
have the same exact full part number, including the suffix after the
main part.

I doubt you'll fry anything if you're reasonably careful and take the
usual precautions against ham-fistedness (don't force anything) and
static. To prevent static, work in short sleeves, barefoot, and cover
your entire work surface in a square yard of pink anti-static foam
sheet or anti-static bubble wrap, usually also pink. You can use
aluminum foil, but be sure it is NOT connected to earth ground (use a
plastic or wooden table, not a metal one), and never use foil when
working on motherboards or anything else containing a battery. You
want a square yard so that your elbows and forearms will usually be in
contact with the anti-static surface. Circuit boards in modern drives
are easy to replace because they're designed to simply slip into place
and don't have any ribbon connectors with delicate clamps that are
easy to break. On WD circuit boards there are some gold fingers near
the motor, and there are 1 or 2 rows of very narrow contacts near the
opposite side of the board. If the contacts on the new board don't
line up in the same places, don't use the board. Do tighten all the
screws (Torx -- get a Torx driver and don't try to use an ordinary
screwdriver) before applying power because they're needed to secure
the connectors and grounds.
 
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