Diagnostics software.

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ac@techDoc

Can someone recommend really, really good diagnostics software?

I have a PC that automatically shuts down, overheats when playing
Counterstrike and other high-end 3D games and does a few other
problems.

I don't know if it's the power supply, the memory or the graphics card.
I am getting the blue screen of death on a WinXP(home). This leads me
to believe that it might be ram, but it could also be the PS... I don't
know yet.

The card is a RADEON x800 -- or something like that... the PS is an
Allied 500watt and it's got a gig of RAM.

But I need to run some diagnostics to rule out the possible problem.
And what's normal operating temperature for a PC using a high-end
graphics card.

Also, at what point do capacitors swell? I saw this in a DELL I had...
sucked.

thanks.

alex
 
ac@techDoc said:
Can someone recommend really, really good diagnostics software?

I have a PC that automatically shuts down, overheats when playing
Counterstrike and other high-end 3D games and does a few other
problems.

I don't know if it's the power supply, the memory or the graphics card.
I am getting the blue screen of death on a WinXP(home). This leads me
to believe that it might be ram, but it could also be the PS... I don't
know yet.

The card is a RADEON x800 -- or something like that... the PS is an
Allied 500watt and it's got a gig of RAM.

But I need to run some diagnostics to rule out the possible problem.
And what's normal operating temperature for a PC using a high-end
graphics card.

Also, at what point do capacitors swell? I saw this in a DELL I had...
sucked.

thanks.

alex
Click to expand...

How do you know that it overheats? Shutdowns during running generally point
to a power supply problem. But the blue screen of death could point to RAM.
It could also be a bad power supply making your RAM look bad. The symptom
that doesn't fit here is overheating. How do you know you are overheating?
Have you tried running with the case wide open? -Dave
 
I'm not sure that it's overheating, that's why I need to run a good
diagnostic utility and let it tell me if the computer's running hot or
not. I'm not sure what is considered "too hot".

The PS is only a few months old and I bought it to support the
power-hungry video card. I initally suspected the PS like you but the
fact that it's new throws me off. And yes, I came to the same
conclusion that a bad PS may be making the RAM look bad(BSOD). It's an
Allied 500w and I've heard mixed things about it.
 
I'm not sure that it's overheating, that's why I need to run a good
diagnostic utility and let it tell me if the computer's running hot or
not. I'm not sure what is considered "too hot".

The PS is only a few months old and I bought it to support the
power-hungry video card. I initally suspected the PS like you but the
fact that it's new throws me off. And yes, I came to the same
conclusion that a bad PS may be making the RAM look bad(BSOD). It's an
Allied 500w and I've heard mixed things about it.
Click to expand...

The fact that something is new doesn't mean that it can't be the
problem. Allied power supplies aren't the best quality either.
Anything connected to the computer is suspect and problems
like that are difficult to diagnose without swapping components.

You can try running a memory tester (such as www.memtest86.com)
and a torture test program such as http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm.

Good luck.
 
Diagnostics software will NOT help you diagnose a thermal problem in your
system, which it sounds like you have. Either your CPU or graphics card is
most likely overheating due to the heavy load that high end 3d games puts on
them.
 
You can try running a memory tester (such as www.memtest86.com)
and a torture test program such as http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

If the computer locks up during these tests, start suspecting power supply
or mainboard, with the more likely suspect being the power supply. If you
get memory errors displayed BY THE TESTING PROGRAM, then you are looking at
a memory or (slight possibility) mainboard problem. -Dave
 
DaveW said:
Diagnostics software will NOT help you diagnose a thermal problem in your
system, which it sounds like you have. Either your CPU or graphics card
is most likely overheating due to the heavy load that high end 3d games
puts on them.
Click to expand...

Start by running MBM5 and set loging to on, run game or whatever till it
acts up, Read log file for voltages and temps, Then report those here and
we may be able to help you.

Regards, Rene
 
Thanks for your help so far, Dave. Well then -- this is frustrating
because what if you want to play these high-end 3D games? What kind of
configuration should I have? All high-end 3D games are going to put a
load on the graphics card--but that's why I bought it, so I can put a
load on it.

How can you tell how to choose a PS that will be compatible with your
high-end graphics card?

(I always thought a PS was just s stupid magnet -- has this changed?
are they smart now and Allied PSs aren't? what gives?

Thanks everyone.
 
ac@techDoc said:
Can someone recommend really, really good diagnostics software?
Click to expand...

Here's a thread about diagnostic and burn-in software:

www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=123908

You'll also need a digital multimeter to check the PSU and measure the
voltage regulators for the CPU, PCI-E, and memory because built-in
monitoring hardware can be very inaccurate. The MOSFETs around the CPU
will have the CPU voltage, but you'll have to probe each of the three
pins on each MOSFET to find where it is. The PCI-E and memory slots
have their own regulators, also probably 3-pin. Stuff pieces of
cardboard between the pins to prevent the meter probe from slipping and
shorting them together. The black meter probe goes to bare metal on
the computer case. Measure while a burn-in or graphics test program is
running.

I would run both MemTest86 and Gold Memory because I've had a couple of
modules pass one but not the other. But bad memory usually causes
reboots or freezes, not shutdowns, which weak power often does.
The card is a RADEON x800 -- or something like that... the PS is an
Allied 500watt and it's got a gig of RAM.
Click to expand...

Allied is Deer, and Deer is crap, and I doubt that a 500W one can put
out anything close to 500W for long. Worse, your computer probably
consumed no more than about half that power. www.jonnyguru.com has
information about PSUs that failed way below their rated powers,
including a Deer (shut down) and Powmax Assassins (broke at 200W and
300W).
Also, at what point do capacitors swell? I saw this in a DELL I had...
sucked.
Click to expand...

www.badcaps.net has information about that, and some of the articles
about the Taiwan capacitor scandal said that caps made with the wrong
chemicals failed 10x faster than normal. I have a 4-year-old 300W
Antec PSU whose Fuhjyyu brand caps on the +12V rail started to swell
about two years ago, even though the power consumption was only 60W,
with just 12W of that from the +12V rail. OTOH I have a much older
Powmax/Leadman that's been used a lot more but with JEE caps that are
still good, and it was built before the capacitor scandal broke and
back when Powmax wasn't absolute trash.
 
ac@techDoc said:
Thanks for your help so far, Dave. Well then -- this is frustrating
because what if you want to play these high-end 3D games? What kind of
configuration should I have? All high-end 3D games are going to put a
load on the graphics card--but that's why I bought it, so I can put a
load on it.

How can you tell how to choose a PS that will be compatible with your
high-end graphics card?

(I always thought a PS was just s stupid magnet -- has this changed?
are they smart now and Allied PSs aren't? what gives?

Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...

OK, the power supply is the single MOST important component of any computer.
Without strong, STABLE DC voltages, nothing else will work right. The power
supply will take AC current from your wall outlet and convert it to DC
current that your computer components can use. Think of the power supply as
like the foundation that you build your house on. If the foundation isn't
steady, the whole house can come tumbling down, no matter how well it is
built.

In choosing a power supply for your computer, you want to find one that has
specifications that match what is recommended by your CPU documentation and
by your Video card documentation. The reason is, these two components alone
will use MOST of the available output of your power supply. If your power
supply can comfortably handle the requirements of both the CPU and Video
card, then it will work fine for your entire system.

Beyond that, you also want to get a really good name-brand like
fortron/sparkle, enermax, seasonic or OCZ (just to name a few good ones).
Why this is important? Because not all power supplies are created equal. A
GOOD 450W power supply can often out-perform a cheap 600W power supply!!!

These days, you want to be especially suspicious of:
1) Any power supply that comes with a computer case. (almost always JUNK)
2) Any power supply that costs less than $75 (almost always JUNK)

So how much should you spend on a power supply? I'd say budget an amount
somewhere BETWEEN the amounts of ($100) and (the amount of money that you
spent on your video card). How does this work? Well, let's say your video
is built into your mainboard. Somewhere between FREE and $100 would be
about $50, which will get you a junk power supply. But that's OK, because
your expectations for your overall system are not that high (or else you
wouldn't settle for built-in graphics). Spend $50 on a video card? Now you
are up to the $75 range for a power supply (BETWEEN $50 and $100), and you
might find something decent in that range, if you shop carefully. Spend
$300 on a video card? Now you are more in the high-end range where $200 for
a decent power supply is perfectly logical and reasonable.

I've seen so many problems caused by cheap power supplies, and it is really
frustrating, as this is one of the hardest components to screw up on. If
you just follow the instructions given to you by the CPU and video card
manufacturer, you will be fine. Or, just post your system specs. here and
more experienced builders can suggest a few GOOD power supplies to run your
rig. -Dave
 
thanks Dave.. But the thing is that the motherboard or video card docs
won't specify what brand to get. And sometimes, you can find a 400w
Enermax for less then $50. You present a good rule of thumb. But if
you're just going by the numbers, ie.., 500w for the video card and the
motherboard. But it's a junk ps, how do you know? the docs indicate
500w (period) so that's what I went out and purchased, an Allied 500w
with cool blinking lights on the fan (that should have been my first
clue) for $35 -- it's human nature to want to pay as little as possible
unless you know, really, really know the industry you're dealing with.

NICs for example... if the built-in adapter goes south on your mother
board and you need to get a NIC, nowadays you don't need to spend more
than $15 for one. I knew a guy that paid $80 for a NIC at CompUSA.

I understand the "you get what you pay for" rule--completely... I paid
$140 for an electric razor and I'm super happy with it because it
doesn't gouge my face out the way some people guys complain that their
$25 shavers do. But it's tricky in the PC industry as things change so
quickly.

Thanks for the explanation.

Alex
 
alex.cordero said:
But it's a junk ps, how do you know? the docs indicate
500w (period) so that's what I went out and purchased, an Allied 500w
with cool blinking lights on the fan (that should have been my first
clue) for $35 -- it's human nature to want to pay as little as possible
unless you know, really, really know the industry you're dealing with.
Click to expand...

For $5 more, you could have bought a 400W Fortron. 400 Fortron watts
are more powerful than 500 Allied (Deer) watts; maybe even 300 Fortron
watts are..
 
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