Defragmentation after several years

[MikelPoppe]

I have had my Hard Drive for at the very least 3 years. In that 3
years I have reformatted multiple times and had many serious problems
and crashes. My hard drive is still hanging in there but I am not sure
how much longer it has. As a self proclaimed computer nerd I have
never in my life heard about disk defragmentation, I assume it was such
a simple concept no one bothered to mention it to me. Will running the
defrag process now after years of abuse have the potential to take my
hard drive down for the count, or will it give it new life?

 

[XPpsych]

If defrag works your HD will work faster (proven)

If it ruins the HD... Then it was probably time for you to get a new
one anyway!

 

[Joel]

I have had my Hard Drive for at the very least 3 years. In that 3
years I have reformatted multiple times and had many serious problems
and crashes. My hard drive is still hanging in there but I am not sure
how much longer it has. As a self proclaimed computer nerd I have
never in my life heard about disk defragmentation, I assume it was such
a simple concept no one bothered to mention it to me. Will running the
defrag process now after years of abuse have the potential to take my
hard drive down for the count, or will it give it new life?

I don't know where to start feeding you the information.

1. If you have never heard of HD defrag then you can always Google to see
how far back you can do.

2. If you haven't heard of Google then you just fire up your browser then
type www.google.com and type something like "defrag" and it will lead you to
the history of HD defrag

3. Worse comes to worse, hard drive is so cheap these days so 3+ years old
HD sounds pretty small to worth a worry. So, while learning more about HD
Defrag you can just get a newer 300GB for more/less $100 range. This would
give you at least another 3 years to have enough time to learn more about HD
defrag

 

[Rod Speed]

I have had my Hard Drive for at the very least 3 years.
In that 3 years I have reformatted multiple times and had
many serious problems and crashes. My hard drive is still
hanging in there but I am not sure how much longer it has.

The absolute vast bulk of hard drives get discarded
because they are too small or too slow. They dont die.

As a self proclaimed computer nerd I have never in my life
heard about disk defragmentation, I assume it was such a
simple concept no one bothered to mention it to me. Will
running the defrag process now after years of abuse have
the potential to take my hard drive down for the count,
Nope.

or will it give it new life?

Nope, its irrelevant to the life of the drive.

 

[beenthere]

I have had my Hard Drive for at the very least 3 years. In that 3
years I have reformatted multiple times and had many serious problems
and crashes. My hard drive is still hanging in there but I am not sure
how much longer it has. As a self proclaimed computer nerd I have
never in my life heard about disk defragmentation, I assume it was such
a simple concept no one bothered to mention it to me. Will running the
defrag process now after years of abuse have the potential to take my
hard drive down for the count, or will it give it new life?

It`s important to clean all the dross, and crap files off
your machine, before you do a defrag.
Then do your defrag in `safe mode`, so that a lot of
unnecessary processes aren`t running in the background.
HTH.

 

[jaster]

I have had my Hard Drive for at the very least 3 years. In that 3 years I
have reformatted multiple times and had many serious problems and crashes.
My hard drive is still hanging in there but I am not sure how much longer
it has. As a self proclaimed computer nerd I have never in my life heard
about disk defragmentation, I assume it was such a simple concept no one
bothered to mention it to me. Will running the defrag process now after
years of abuse have the potential to take my hard drive down for the
count, or will it give it new life?

You've got to be kidding "self proclaimed computer nerd" and you've never
heard of defrag?

All HDs are warranteed for 1yr, some 3yrs and a few 5yrs so 3yrs isn't
that old. Chances are your serious problems and crashes were due to
software, ie, cookies, javascripts, spamware on your PC or may faulty
memory.

You setup weekly system maintenance jobs like System Mechanic,
SpybotSearch and Destroy, Adaware and AV to run weekly to clean up your
system.

Meanwhile boot into Safe Mode, delete all internet temporary files,
internet cookies you don't need, empty the recycle bin, delete temporary
files in C:\Windows\temp. Then run Defrag, and Scandisk for the next
reboot. You can also download and run the disk maintenance software from
the vendor of your HD to check for and flag any bad sectors on your HD.

After reboot setup scheduled tasks to run defrag, anti-virus scans,
anti-spamware and system mechanic tools weekly.

 

[Paul]

I have had my Hard Drive for at the very least 3 years. In that 3
years I have reformatted multiple times and had many serious problems
and crashes. My hard drive is still hanging in there but I am not sure
how much longer it has. As a self proclaimed computer nerd I have
never in my life heard about disk defragmentation, I assume it was such
a simple concept no one bothered to mention it to me. Will running the
defrag process now after years of abuse have the potential to take my
hard drive down for the count, or will it give it new life?

Do you have a backup copy of the disk ? Disks are cheap enough, that
you can do disk-to-disk backups. Backup your data first, then experiment
with defragging. Defragging moves a lot of data around your disk, and
if you suspect the disk is not healthy, then defragging is not your
first priority. Doing a backup is.

Paul

 

[CBFalconer]

I have had my Hard Drive for at the very least 3 years. In that 3
years I have reformatted multiple times and had many serious
problems and crashes. My hard drive is still hanging in there but
I am not sure how much longer it has. As a self proclaimed
computer nerd I have never in my life heard about disk
defragmentation, I assume it was such a simple concept no one
bothered to mention it to me. Will running the defrag process now
after years of abuse have the potential to take my hard drive down
for the count, or will it give it new life?

After any reformat and reload the drive is automatically defragged.

There are two big dangers with defragging (and reloading). One is
that you may incur a power failure during the operation, which can
leave the disc in an unusable condition. This can be avoided by
using a battery backup power supply.

The other, and more subtle but very dangerous one, is that the
memory buffers used for transferring file content are corrupted,
possibly by a cosmic ray, in the interval before between reading
and writing. This leaves a damaged copy totally undetected, and
the evil results may not become apparent for years. Once such
damage occurs it is irreversible. The only way to protect against
this is to install and enable ECC memory. Too many systems today
do not have this, or do not even have the capability to install ECC
memory.

One other way to ensure good files is to maintain MD5sums for all
of them. This provides an independent means of verifying
correctness. This is the only safe way known to me when you are
lacking ECC.

Some file types, such as zip, have internal self checks, and are
thus safer. However damage will result in data loss.

 

[meow2222]

(e-mail address removed) wrote:

Do you have a backup copy of the disk ? Disks are cheap enough, that
you can do disk-to-disk backups. Backup your data first, then experiment
with defragging. Defragging moves a lot of data around your disk, and
if you suspect the disk is not healthy, then defragging is not your
first priority. Doing a backup is.

Paul

Defragging is not entirely risk free procedure. It involves reading and
rewriting most of the hdd data, and in your case doing this on a
machine that has a history of screwing up. I've successfully trashed a
diskful of data by defragging a machine that had inadequate data
integrity. Defrag isnt normally a problem, but I wouldnt hurry to
defrag a machine if it produces data errors or scrambles the file
system regularly.

First thing to do is backup data - if youve got the means to do that,
then a defrag would make a fair difference to performance. But if you
dont have anything to backup onto, and your pc screws the filesystem up
regularly, I'd be wary of defrag.

Can you back everything up? Why is your pc screwing up? Which OS are
you using? What have you done to find out why its misbehaving?


NT

 

[Null]

After any reformat and reload the drive is automatically defragged.

There are two big dangers with defragging (and reloading). One is
that you may incur a power failure during the operation, which can
leave the disc in an unusable condition. This can be avoided by
using a battery backup power supply.

<snip>

Evidently, a power loss during defragging won't result in any major problems.
Found this on Microsoft's site:

"Phase 3: Makes room for the 32-bit FAT. CVT makes room for the new 32-bit FAT
by moving files and directories out of the way using the same method as
Defrag. Any failure or power loss during this phase might leave minor problems
in the form of lost clusters (the same as Defrag.) No user data is lost, and
ScanDisk can easily throw away the lost clusters."

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/fat32preinstall.mspx

 

[Rod Speed]

You've got to be kidding "self proclaimed computer nerd" and you've
never heard of defrag?

All HDs are warranteed for 1yr, some 3yrs and a few 5yrs so 3yrs isn't
that old. Chances are your serious problems and crashes were due to
software, ie, cookies, javascripts, spamware on your PC or may faulty
memory.

You setup weekly system maintenance jobs like System Mechanic,
SpybotSearch and Destroy, Adaware and AV to run weekly to clean up
your system.

Meanwhile boot into Safe Mode, delete all internet temporary files,
internet cookies you don't need, empty the recycle bin, delete
temporary files in C:\Windows\temp. Then run Defrag, and Scandisk
for the next reboot. You can also download and run the disk
maintenance software from the vendor of your HD to check for and flag
any bad sectors on your HD.

After reboot setup scheduled tasks to run defrag, anti-virus scans,
anti-spamware and system mechanic tools weekly.

Pointless defragging weekly, or even monthly.

 

[kony]

I have had my Hard Drive for at the very least 3 years.

That's not very long, typical lifespan of a system is much
longer.

In that 3
years I have reformatted multiple times and had many serious problems
and crashes.

So is the system stable now? That's quite important,
particularly memory- run memtest86+, overnight, to be sure
your memory is ok before defragging.

My hard drive is still hanging in there but I am not sure
how much longer it has.

It could fail today, or yesterday, or 4 years from now.
Don't count on anything, make backups.

As a self proclaimed computer nerd I have
never in my life heard about disk defragmentation, I assume it was such
a simple concept no one bothered to mention it to me.

It is odd you hadn't heard of it. What about those menu
items in Windows, didn't they stand out?

Will running the
defrag process now after years of abuse have the potential to take my
hard drive down for the count, or will it give it new life?

Neither. It will defrag. Once defragged, you may find some
files or the OS in general runs faster, but it depends a
great deal on what was fragmented and what you use the
system for- many times the OS starts out fairly unfragmented
and unless the user, uses large files, the smaller data
files aren't so likely fragmented either. Regardless, it
should speed up the use of the system at least a little but
not a new life by any stretch, unless your system was so low
on memory that it was constantly using the pagefile, in
which case it's time to add more memory.

Defrag it after checking the memory and making a backup.

 

[jaster]

Pointless defragging weekly, or even monthly.

Why is that? What does it hurt? Doesn't it depend on how often files
are created, moved or deleted on your HD? Isn't it easier for "self
proclaimed computer nerds" to schedule regular maintenance rather wait
3yrs for someone to tell them why they're having HD problems?
I've cleaned out a few PCs because the owners don't bother to run regular
maintenance. Why wait for problems? Some people prefer prevention rather than
cures. Using the computer to schedule maintenance eliminates the need
for humans to remember to do maintenance. KISS!!

 

[IndependentFratter]

As I research it more I am seeing the mention of NTFS dealing with a
defrag differently then the older FAT formats. Everything I have read
goes on and on about linux and reorganizing your NTFS, will a defrag do
nothing since my HD is formatted NTFS?

 

[VWWall]

As I research it more I am seeing the mention of NTFS dealing with a
defrag differently then the older FAT formats. Everything I have read
goes on and on about linux and reorganizing your NTFS, will a defrag do
nothing since my HD is formatted NTFS?

The NTFS defrag supplied by Windows doesn't seem to do too well. If you
run it several times, it seems to pick up more fragmented files. I have
WindowsXP x64 (64 bit) on the same machine as WindowsXP, (32bit). If I
defrag one drive with the Windows files on it using the defrag program
in the other OS, it seems to do much better.

If you plan on splitting a partition off of a NTFS formatted partition,
you need defrag to get all the files to the start of the present partition.

Third party defrag programs are claimed to do better.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Why is that?

Modern hard drives seek so fast, modern OSs dont fragment easily,
modern OSs are moving the heads around a lot due to stuff as basic as
the internet cache etc. Very few systems need to be defragged anymore.

What does it hurt?

Its a waste of time.

Doesn't it depend on how often files are
created, moved or deleted on your HD?

Yes, and few systems defrag much because few systems actually
change a very big percentage of the files on the drive that much
except in a few special situations like say a PVR etc. And a PVR
doesnt give a damn about minor fragmentation because the time
to process the file is entirely determined by the playback rate,
so an occassional extra head move is completely invisible,
because the playback rate determines the file access times.

Isn't it easier for "self proclaimed computer nerds"
to schedule regular maintenance rather wait 3yrs for
someone to tell them why they're having HD problems?

You dont in fact find that modern systems end up with a problem
after 3 years even if they are never defragged in that time.

I've cleaned out a few PCs because the owners don't
bother to run regular maintenance. Why wait for problems?

Because you wont have any problem even if you never defrag.

Some people prefer prevention rather than cures.

Some people have noticed that you wont
see a problem even if you never defrag.

Using the computer to schedule maintenance eliminates the
need for humans to remember to do maintenance. KISS!!

KISS means not bothering to defrag because it isnt necessary.

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

The NTFS defrag supplied by Windows doesn't seem to do too well. If you run it several times, it
seems to pick up more fragmented files.

Thats because it doesnt bother to fix minor fragmentation.

That isnt necessary with modern fast seeking
hard drives and fragmentation resistant OSs.

I have WindowsXP x64 (64 bit) on the same machine as WindowsXP,
(32bit). If I defrag one drive with the Windows files on it using the defrag program in the other
OS, it seems to do much better.

If you plan on splitting a partition off of a NTFS formatted partition, you need defrag to get all
the files to the start of the present partition.

No you dont, any decent partition splitter will do that for you.

Third party defrag programs are claimed to do better.

And you wont even be able to pick the
difference with a proper double blind trial.

You wont even be able to pick the difference between defragging
and not defragging at all except in a very few unusual situations.

 

[jaster]

Modern hard drives seek so fast, modern OSs dont fragment easily, modern
OSs are moving the heads around a lot due to stuff as basic as the
internet cache etc. Very few systems need to be defragged anymore.

What crock. I've had a couple of large fragmented files sitting on my HD
that would defrag until I moved them to another drive. And I have a
modern HDs. HD have very little to do with how the OS processes files.
The OP didn't say he had XP, W2k, Win3x, FAT16, FAT32 or NTFS.

Its a waste of time.

Thats why we have computers and computer programs to make repetitive tasks
simple. If it's such a waste of time why is a form of it included with
every OS?

Yes, and few systems defrag much because few systems actually change a
very big percentage of the files on the drive that much except in a few
special situations like say a PVR etc. And a PVR doesnt give a damn about
minor fragmentation because the time to process the file is entirely
determined by the playback rate, so an occassional extra head move is
completely invisible, because the playback rate determines the file access
times.


You dont in fact find that modern systems end up with a problem after 3
years even if they are never defragged in that time.


Because you wont have any problem even if you never defrag.


Some people have noticed that you wont see a problem even if you never
defrag.


KISS means not bothering to defrag because it isnt necessary.

Nope KISS means keep is simple stupid. System Mechanic goes a long way
towards cleaning up most Windows type problems and it's a "set it and
forget" maintenance.

The OP has a choice, he can follow your advice and post every 3-6 months
asking about defrg, chkdsk and why he's having problems with his HD, or he
can follow my advice and schedule regular maintenance for his PC. Neither
is guaranteed to keep his PC trouble free. But because he's been
having HD troubles not defragging, I think he'll be better off with my
advice.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

What crock.

We'll see...

I've had a couple of large fragmented files sitting on my
HD that would defrag until I moved them to another drive.

Presumably you meant to say wouldnt.

And I have a modern HDs. HD have very
little to do with how the OS processes files.

The speed at which the HD seeks has everything to do with whether
you will even notice a few more fragments than the minimum possible.
In spades when modern OSs are moving the heads around for other
reasons in the time it takes to get from one end of large file to the other.

The OP didn't say he had XP, W2k, Win3x, FAT16, FAT32 or NTFS.

He did however say that the system is 3 years old,
so its unlikely to be other than FAT32 or NTFS.

Doesnt matter in fact, MS got their act into gear on using
free space better to minimise fragmentation long before that.

Thats why we have computers and computer
programs to make repetitive tasks simple.

Still pointless defragging when you cant even
pick the difference in a proper double blind trial.

If it's such a waste of time why is a form of it included with every OS?

It isnt, no linux bothers with it. The MS OSs include
it because some pig ignorant fools would howl about
it if it was deleted and its easier to just keep it.

Nope KISS means keep is simple stupid.

Duh. And that means not bothering to defrag when you cant
even pick whether the system has been defragged, stupid.

System Mechanic goes a long way towards cleaning up most
Windows type problems and it's a "set it and forget" maintenance.

You aint established that his system actually has a fragmentation problem.

The OP has a choice, he can follow your advice and post every 3-6 months
asking about defrg, chkdsk and why he's having problems with his HD,

How odd that he didnt in the last more than 3 years.

He's only asking about it now because he's fallen over defragging.

or he can follow my advice and schedule regular maintenance for his PC.

Or he can consider the arguments for why defragging isnt
necessary anymore and decide that it isnt worth bothering with
when he obviously managed fine without it in more than 3 years.

Not a shred of rocket science required whatever.

Neither is guaranteed to keep his PC trouble free.

You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist stupids ?

But because he's been having HD troubles not defragging,

You dont know that.

I think he'll be better off with my advice.

Not a shred of evidence that you are actually capable of thought.

 

[darklight]

After reading what has been written my advice to you is run the os and
time it then defrag and run and time if you notice an improvement
continue to do if not don't do it.