Defining new system

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Mellowed

I'm defining my first home built system that includes the following:

MOBO Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
Memory Patriot PDC22G6400LLK 2gb 800mhz
CPU Core 2 Duo E6600

The Mobo memory default voltage is 1.8V. The memory requires 2.2V.
Upon initial bootup, will I be able to get into the BIOS to increase the
memory voltage if the memory is non-responsive due to lack of
appropriate voltage? I suspect that I need to find memory at 1.8V.
 
Mellowed said:
I'm defining my first home built system that includes the following:

MOBO Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
Memory Patriot PDC22G6400LLK 2gb 800mhz
CPU Core 2 Duo E6600

The Mobo memory default voltage is 1.8V. The memory requires 2.2V.
Upon initial bootup, will I be able to get into the BIOS to increase the
memory voltage if the memory is non-responsive due to lack of
appropriate voltage? I suspect that I need to find memory at 1.8V.
Click to expand...

Perhaps someone can give you a more definitive answer, but my understanding
is that, no, if the memory is not responsive, you can't get past the post
and into the bios. I don't think that this necessarily means that if the
memory says that it requires 2.2V it will be unresponsive. Again, I'm not
positive, but I think that a voltage requirement for memory means that it
requires this voltage to obtain the rated speed, but will work on slightly
lower voltage. If I'm reading other posts correctly, they are implying that
this in some ways is deceptive advertising - you can typically increase
memory voltage to increase speed, but if you are comparing the speed across
brands when you make a purchase, seeing something with a higher speed but
not realizing that you have to up the voltage to get that speed might make
you buy something that doesn't really favorably compare to the alternative.

I have a Gigabyte board (not the same one), and the 3rd or so bios revision
was intended to address compatibility problems with 800 mhz ram. I've read
in a few places that ram compatibility problems for some reason tend to
start at 800 mhz ram for some reason. If you go with 800 mhz ram and get a
board with a bios that has a problem with it, you are going to have to pull
the fast ram, put in slower ram, get the thing running, and possibly flash
to a newer bios (assuming that it is available), and alter the bios setting
before putting back the fast ram.

Jeff
 
I'm defining my first home built system that includes the following:

MOBO Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
Memory Patriot PDC22G6400LLK 2gb 800mhz
CPU Core 2 Duo E6600

The Mobo memory default voltage is 1.8V. The memory requires 2.2V.
Upon initial bootup, will I be able to get into the BIOS to increase the
memory voltage if the memory is non-responsive due to lack of
appropriate voltage? I suspect that I need to find memory at 1.8V.
Click to expand...

I admit to being totally confused on this issue. With nearly every non-
AMD motherboard requiring 1.8V memory why is most memory rated above
1.8V ???
 
:
: : > I'm defining my first home built system that includes the following:
: >
: > MOBO Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
: > Memory Patriot PDC22G6400LLK 2gb 800mhz
: > CPU Core 2 Duo E6600
: >
: > The Mobo memory default voltage is 1.8V. The memory requires 2.2V.
: > Upon initial bootup, will I be able to get into the BIOS to increase
the
: > memory voltage if the memory is non-responsive due to lack of
: > appropriate voltage? I suspect that I need to find memory at 1.8V.
:
: Perhaps someone can give you a more definitive answer, but my
understanding
: is that, no, if the memory is not responsive, you can't get past the
post
: and into the bios. I don't think that this necessarily means that if
the
: memory says that it requires 2.2V it will be unresponsive. Again, I'm
not
: positive, but I think that a voltage requirement for memory means that
it
: requires this voltage to obtain the rated speed, but will work on
slightly
: lower voltage. If I'm reading other posts correctly, they are implying
that
: this in some ways is deceptive advertising - you can typically
increase
: memory voltage to increase speed, but if you are comparing the speed
across
: brands when you make a purchase, seeing something with a higher speed
but
: not realizing that you have to up the voltage to get that speed might
make
: you buy something that doesn't really favorably compare to the
alternative.
:
: I have a Gigabyte board (not the same one), and the 3rd or so bios
revision
: was intended to address compatibility problems with 800 mhz ram. I've
read
: in a few places that ram compatibility problems for some reason tend
to
: start at 800 mhz ram for some reason. If you go with 800 mhz ram and
get a
: board with a bios that has a problem with it, you are going to have to
pull
: the fast ram, put in slower ram, get the thing running, and possibly
flash
: to a newer bios (assuming that it is available), and alter the bios
setting
: before putting back the fast ram.
:
: Jeff
:
:
: --
:
:
Thanks for the response. I'll just look for a 1.8V memory and not risk
an avoidable problem. I found a Mushkin memory that should work OK.
 
I am confused also, why would one buy incompatible memory for a MB anyway?
That is like saying my car requires 1000 cold cranking amps to start the
engine but my battery is capable of 600 cold cranking amps only.

-g
 
Mellowed said:
I'm defining my first home built system that includes the following:

MOBO Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
Memory Patriot PDC22G6400LLK 2gb 800mhz
CPU Core 2 Duo E6600

The Mobo memory default voltage is 1.8V. The memory requires 2.2V.
Upon initial bootup, will I be able to get into the BIOS to increase the
memory voltage if the memory is non-responsive due to lack of
appropriate voltage? I suspect that I need to find memory at 1.8V.
Click to expand...

The memory sticks have the appropriate parameters (speed, RAS/CAS/TRC,
voltage etc) incorporated on board, these are read by the bios and used as
default parameters. You should have no problem getting in to the bios.

On modern boards the bios is not dependent on memory or indeed a processor
being present as they incorporate there own microcontroller.

Icky
 
:
: : > I'm defining my first home built system that includes the following:
: >
: > MOBO Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
: > Memory Patriot PDC22G6400LLK 2gb 800mhz
: > CPU Core 2 Duo E6600
: >
: > The Mobo memory default voltage is 1.8V. The memory requires 2.2V.
: > Upon initial bootup, will I be able to get into the BIOS to increase
the
: > memory voltage if the memory is non-responsive due to lack of
: > appropriate voltage? I suspect that I need to find memory at 1.8V.
: >
:
: The memory sticks have the appropriate parameters (speed, RAS/CAS/TRC,
: voltage etc) incorporated on board, these are read by the bios and
used as
: default parameters. You should have no problem getting in to the bios.
:
: On modern boards the bios is not dependent on memory or indeed a
processor
: being present as they incorporate there own microcontroller.
:
: Icky

Interesting. So you are saying that the BIOS will automatically
increase the memory voltage to 2.2V provided the mobo allows that
voltage. The Gigabyte mobo can increase the voltage 0.7V from the
nominal 1.8V. That being the case I should never have to go into the
BIOS for that issue. Can I assume that the Gigabyte board can be
classified as a 'modern' board with the capability of reading the RAM's
info?
 
Interesting. So you are saying that the BIOS will automatically
increase the memory voltage to 2.2V provided the mobo allows that
voltage. The Gigabyte mobo can increase the voltage 0.7V from the
nominal 1.8V. That being the case I should never have to go into the
BIOS for that issue. Can I assume that the Gigabyte board can be
classified as a 'modern' board with the capability of reading the RAM's
info?
Click to expand...

The Gigabyte mobo you specified seems to have had issues reading the memory
SPD settings - see

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2854

I could thoroughly recommend having a look at the ASUS mobo offerings - I am
using a P5W64WS-PRO which seems to be pretty bug free and uses the intel 975
chipset

http://www.asus.com/products3.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=248&slname=Intel 975X


--------------------------------

For more info on the data that is carried with each memory stick have a look
at:

www.corsairmemory.com/corsair/products/specs/EPP_Specification_v01.pdf

see section 2.2.1 Field: voltage level


Icky
 
:
: :
: >
: > Interesting. So you are saying that the BIOS will automatically
: > increase the memory voltage to 2.2V provided the mobo allows that
: > voltage. The Gigabyte mobo can increase the voltage 0.7V from the
: > nominal 1.8V. That being the case I should never have to go into
the
: > BIOS for that issue. Can I assume that the Gigabyte board can be
: > classified as a 'modern' board with the capability of reading the
RAM's
: > info?
: >
: >
:
: The Gigabyte mobo you specified seems to have had issues reading the
memory
: SPD settings - see
:
: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2854
:
: I could thoroughly recommend having a look at the ASUS mobo
offerings - I am
: using a P5W64WS-PRO which seems to be pretty bug free and uses the
intel 975
: chipset
:
:
http://www.asus.com/products3.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=248&slname=Intel 975X
:
:
: --------------------------------
:
: For more info on the data that is carried with each memory stick have
a look
: at:
:
: www.corsairmemory.com/corsair/products/specs/EPP_Specification_v01.pdf
:
: see section 2.2.1 Field: voltage level
:
:
: Icky
:
Well the Anamdtech report was certainly interesting. The reason for
choosing the Gigabyte was the inclusion of both the serial and parallel
ports, and, using only 1 PCIx16 slot allowing more PCI slots. I need
more slots for expansion. The report was dated October 2006 and since
then there have been several more BIOS releases. I don't know if the
issues have been resolved.

The ASUS boards don't have both the serial and parallel ports, and chew
up expansion space with dual PCIx16 slots. This is a problem for me. I
guess I will search to see if I can find any comments about the later
BIOS releases and what they fixed. I certainly don't want to make my
life miserable.
 
Mellowed said:
:
: : > I'm defining my first home built system that includes the following:
: >
: > MOBO Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
: > Memory Patriot PDC22G6400LLK 2gb 800mhz
: > CPU Core 2 Duo E6600
: >
: > The Mobo memory default voltage is 1.8V. The memory requires 2.2V.
: > Upon initial bootup, will I be able to get into the BIOS to increase the
: > memory voltage if the memory is non-responsive due to lack of
: > appropriate voltage? I suspect that I need to find memory at 1.8V.
: >
:
: The memory sticks have the appropriate parameters (speed, RAS/CAS/TRC,
: voltage etc) incorporated on board, these are read by the bios and used as
: default parameters. You should have no problem getting in to the bios.
:
: On modern boards the bios is not dependent on memory or indeed a processor
: being present as they incorporate there own microcontroller.
:
: Icky

Interesting. So you are saying that the BIOS will automatically
increase the memory voltage to 2.2V provided the mobo allows that
voltage. The Gigabyte mobo can increase the voltage 0.7V from the
nominal 1.8V. That being the case I should never have to go into the
BIOS for that issue. Can I assume that the Gigabyte board can be
classified as a 'modern' board with the capability of reading the RAM's
info?
Click to expand...

In general, there is no microcontroller. (The only exception I know
of, is at the end of this post.) The BIOS code can run using
processor registers, up until the point that the memory is setup and
operational. At that point, the BIOS code has the luxury of using
system memory, and setting up the rest of the system, mirroring BIOS
code to RAM etc.

This is the JEDEC spec for the contents of SPD for DDR2. Byte 8 contains
the voltage info, and JEDEC only defines the 1.8V value. As far as I know,
EPP is not approved by JEDEC, because I cannot find it via the JEDEC
search engine. So some NVidia chipset boards support EPP, and some
Corsair, Mushkin, and OCZ sticks have EPP information stored in them.

http://www.jedec.org/download/search/4_01_02_10R14B.pdf

In short, for the vast majority of motherboards and RAM combinations,
there are no guarantees that a 2.2V memory will start.

There are possible workarounds. For example, the BIOS writer could
set the Vdimm voltage to a value higher than 1.8V, when seeing that
a module is to run at DDR2-800. Elevated voltages have been used,
unknown to the end user, in the past, so that is a possible solution.

The company making a DDR2-800 module can also implement a workaround.
If they set up the module, to fool the BIOS into setting it up at
DDR2-533, then it may be possible for it to start running with
even 1.8V if that happens to be all that is available. Then, it
would be up to the end user, to enter the BIOS, set Vdimm and
the timing values manually. If the setup failed, the user can
clear the CMOS, and the system will start again at DDR2-533.
But that requires clever SPD programming.

But if you have the combination of a poorly written BIOS, and
the SPD on the DIMM is set to DDR2-800 and tight timings, then
a modern motherboard can fail to POST.

As for the concept of a microcontroller, in general chipsets don't
have microcontrollers. The Intel 965 chipset does have something
built in for AMT, but it is only fully enabled on Q965, and
requires an SPI flash chip on the motherboard. On at least one
Gigabyte motherboard (P965 based), they have managed to offer
Intel QST fan control, but I don't know if this is actually
managed by the BIOS, or by the management engine. There are
many other VIA, SIS, Nvidia, ATI chipsets, that will have
nothing like this. The Intel Management Engine actually uses
some of the system's memory for itself, and a DDR2 DIMM must
be plugged into the correct DIMM slot, for AMT to work on
a Q965 motherboard.

AMT slide set (read in conjunction with Q965 datasheet - keyword HECI):
http://download.intel.com/idf/us/docs/PS_ADTS003.pdf
http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/313053.htm (Q965)
http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/313056.htm (ICH8)

Paul
 
: Mellowed wrote:
: > : > :
: > : : > : > I'm defining my first home built system that includes the
following:
: > : >
: > : > MOBO Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
: > : > Memory Patriot PDC22G6400LLK 2gb 800mhz
: > : > CPU Core 2 Duo E6600
: > : >
: > : > The Mobo memory default voltage is 1.8V. The memory requires
2.2V.
: > : > Upon initial bootup, will I be able to get into the BIOS to
increase the
: > : > memory voltage if the memory is non-responsive due to lack of
: > : > appropriate voltage? I suspect that I need to find memory at
1.8V.
: > : >
: > :
: > : The memory sticks have the appropriate parameters (speed,
RAS/CAS/TRC,
: > : voltage etc) incorporated on board, these are read by the bios and
used as
: > : default parameters. You should have no problem getting in to the
bios.
: > :
: > : On modern boards the bios is not dependent on memory or indeed a
processor
: > : being present as they incorporate there own microcontroller.
: > :
: > : Icky
: >
: > Interesting. So you are saying that the BIOS will automatically
: > increase the memory voltage to 2.2V provided the mobo allows that
: > voltage. The Gigabyte mobo can increase the voltage 0.7V from the
: > nominal 1.8V. That being the case I should never have to go into
the
: > BIOS for that issue. Can I assume that the Gigabyte board can be
: > classified as a 'modern' board with the capability of reading the
RAM's
: > info?
: >
:
: In general, there is no microcontroller. (The only exception I know
: of, is at the end of this post.) The BIOS code can run using
: processor registers, up until the point that the memory is setup and
: operational. At that point, the BIOS code has the luxury of using
: system memory, and setting up the rest of the system, mirroring BIOS
: code to RAM etc.
:
: This is the JEDEC spec for the contents of SPD for DDR2. Byte 8
contains
: the voltage info, and JEDEC only defines the 1.8V value. As far as I
know,
: EPP is not approved by JEDEC, because I cannot find it via the JEDEC
: search engine. So some NVidia chipset boards support EPP, and some
: Corsair, Mushkin, and OCZ sticks have EPP information stored in them.
:
: http://www.jedec.org/download/search/4_01_02_10R14B.pdf
:
: In short, for the vast majority of motherboards and RAM combinations,
: there are no guarantees that a 2.2V memory will start.
:
: There are possible workarounds. For example, the BIOS writer could
: set the Vdimm voltage to a value higher than 1.8V, when seeing that
: a module is to run at DDR2-800. Elevated voltages have been used,
: unknown to the end user, in the past, so that is a possible solution.
:
: The company making a DDR2-800 module can also implement a workaround.
: If they set up the module, to fool the BIOS into setting it up at
: DDR2-533, then it may be possible for it to start running with
: even 1.8V if that happens to be all that is available. Then, it
: would be up to the end user, to enter the BIOS, set Vdimm and
: the timing values manually. If the setup failed, the user can
: clear the CMOS, and the system will start again at DDR2-533.
: But that requires clever SPD programming.
:
: But if you have the combination of a poorly written BIOS, and
: the SPD on the DIMM is set to DDR2-800 and tight timings, then
: a modern motherboard can fail to POST.
:
: As for the concept of a microcontroller, in general chipsets don't
: have microcontrollers. The Intel 965 chipset does have something
: built in for AMT, but it is only fully enabled on Q965, and
: requires an SPI flash chip on the motherboard. On at least one
: Gigabyte motherboard (P965 based), they have managed to offer
: Intel QST fan control, but I don't know if this is actually
: managed by the BIOS, or by the management engine. There are
: many other VIA, SIS, Nvidia, ATI chipsets, that will have
: nothing like this. The Intel Management Engine actually uses
: some of the system's memory for itself, and a DDR2 DIMM must
: be plugged into the correct DIMM slot, for AMT to work on
: a Q965 motherboard.
:
: AMT slide set (read in conjunction with Q965 datasheet - keyword
HECI):
: http://download.intel.com/idf/us/docs/PS_ADTS003.pdf
: http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/313053.htm (Q965)
: http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/313056.htm (ICH8)
:
: Paul

This was a very informative post. The information is excellent
reference for anybody building there own system. I didn't have a clue
about most of the response as this whole thing is outside my knowledge.
Of course that is why I asked for advise. I am going to change the RAM
to the G.SKILL as recommended by 'Dave'. I'll also change the power
supply as suggested. With those changes I should have a chance for
success. Thanks again.
 
:
Well the Anamdtech report was certainly interesting. The reason for
choosing the Gigabyte was the inclusion of both the serial and parallel
ports, and, using only 1 PCIx16 slot allowing more PCI slots. I need
more slots for expansion. The report was dated October 2006 and since
then there have been several more BIOS releases. I don't know if the
issues have been resolved.

The ASUS boards don't have both the serial and parallel ports, and chew
up expansion space with dual PCIx16 slots. This is a problem for me. I
guess I will search to see if I can find any comments about the later
BIOS releases and what they fixed. I certainly don't want to make my
life miserable.
Click to expand...

OK I understand where you are coming from. The ASUS boards do infact have
both serial and parallel ports - the serial ports are supplied via a header
on the mobo which feeds a (supplied) blanking plate which you fit in a spare
card slot port - as are additional USB/Firewire ports if you need then.

Good luck

Icky
 
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