defective processor ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sydney2
  • Start date Start date
S

Sydney2

Hello all

My computer seems to stop from time to time :
After the startup, the machine runs normally for a while. Then
everything is stopped. The computer won't respond to the keyboard,.the
mouse can be moved, the hard disk telltale lamp is off. All I have to do
is wait. Then everything returns to normal. I have tested successively
the RAM modules by removing one after the other.
I suspect the processor. How to make sure ? What else can be wrong ?
 
Sydney2 said:
Hello all

My computer seems to stop from time to time :
After the startup, the machine runs normally for a while. Then
everything is stopped. The computer won't respond to the keyboard,.the
mouse can be moved, the hard disk telltale lamp is off. All I have to do
is wait. Then everything returns to normal. I have tested successively
the RAM modules by removing one after the other.
I suspect the processor. How to make sure ? What else can be wrong ?
Click to expand...

Monitored the CPU's temperature?
 
Sydney2 said:
Hello all

My computer seems to stop from time to time :
After the startup, the machine runs normally for a while. Then
everything is stopped. The computer won't respond to the keyboard,.the
mouse can be moved, the hard disk telltale lamp is off. All I have to do
is wait. Then everything returns to normal. I have tested successively
the RAM modules by removing one after the other.
I suspect the processor. How to make sure ? What else can be wrong ?
Click to expand...

If a processor was defective, it would most like "crash and
go off into the woods".

If there is a delay (freeze) and a continuation, a culprit
might be a kernel call that is jammed up. The kernel calls
should serialize and block, and if one stops when it isn't
supposed to, all activity stops too.

An example of an "unexpected condition" in the computer,
would be a bad sector on the hard drive. It might take
up to 15 seconds for the issue to be resolved (sector
spared out or whatever). In which time, the
computer could experience a delay. And finally,
a release, when the kernel call returns.

Note - freezes can be very hard to figure out. If you
remain puzzled by the source of yours, you would not
be alone. We're all at the mercy of "freezing". Only
by luck, do you figure them out.

You can check the Event Viewer. That's one place to
look. But there's no reason for an event to be
reported. Freezing doesn't have to leave "bread crumbs"
when it happens. Sometimes, the cause can be some
driver you updated, some software you added, and
so on.

If you boot an alternate OS (say, a Linux LiveCD), and
the computer halts in exactly the same way, you'd suspect
a hardware fault. If symptoms manifest in a different way,
then you're no further ahead, in terms of collecting
evidence.

*******

I had a situation very similar to yours just yesterday.

1) Power up computer not used for six months.
2) Unit had PS/2 keyboard and PS/2 mouse connected.
3) When to Start : Run, and tried to type in devmgmt.msc.
As I was typing, the keyboard and the mouse stopped working.
4) Reached for my trusty USB keyboard and USB mouse.
Plugged those in (leaving PS/2 devices in place). You
can run with two keyboards and two mice if you wish.
Windows detected new hardware. So it wasn't "frozen".
5) I was able to finish typing, using the USB keyboard.
6) After I was finished whatever I was doing, I rebooted,
and the PS/2 devices were able to complete test case (3)
without a problem. When I did Start : Run and entered
devmgmt.msc, it worked and Device Manager appeared on
the screen.

What was the problem ? I haven't a clue...

Paul
 
Sydney2 said:
My computer seems to stop from time to time :
After the startup, the machine runs normally for a while. Then
everything is stopped. The computer won't respond to the keyboard,.the
mouse can be moved, the hard disk telltale lamp is off. All I have to do
is wait. Then everything returns to normal. I have tested successively
the RAM modules by removing one after the other.
I suspect the processor.
Click to expand...

Unless the processor is getting too hot and automatically slowing down
to protect itself, it's not the problem. A hot processor can be
caused by the heatsink being slightly crooked and not making good
contact, the heatsink fan spinning slowly because it's starting to
seize, or bad airflow due to blockage or even another fan fighting the
air flow.

Hard disks and memory tend to be the least reliable devices in a
system. HD cables can go bad, and SATA cables connectors easily
become crooked. HDs should be tested with their manufacturer's
diagnostic, but I like MHDD because its scan can report sectors that
require several retries to be read. Also PATA IDE drive power
connectors on the cable side can come loose. They're made of metal
tubes slit down one side, and squeezing them so the slit becomes
narrower will tighten them.
 
Sydney2 said:
I suspect the processor. How to make sure ? What else can be wrong ?
Click to expand...

In addition to the hard disk, I would suspect the memory, especially
if it has heatsinks over its chips or the actual makers of the chips
can't be identified. That kind of memory isn't exactly the best
quality and gives a lot, lot more errors than real branded chips. But
sometimes problems don't show up until you install new software,
including driver software. Most people recommended testing memory
with MemTest86+, but sometimes you get different results with
MemTest86 and Gold Memory, and the worst results are the ones to worry
about.

Power problems cause all sorts of miscellaneous errors, so if you have
a spare power supply, try swapping it in to see what happens.
 
Le 01/07/2012 21:44, Paul a écrit :
If a processor was defective, it would most like "crash and
go off into the woods".

If there is a delay (freeze) and a continuation, a culprit
might be a kernel call that is jammed up. The kernel calls
should serialize and block, and if one stops when it isn't
supposed to, all activity stops too.

An example of an "unexpected condition" in the computer,
would be a bad sector on the hard drive. It might take
up to 15 seconds for the issue to be resolved (sector
spared out or whatever). In which time, the
computer could experience a delay. And finally,
a release, when the kernel call returns.

Note - freezes can be very hard to figure out. If you
remain puzzled by the source of yours, you would not
be alone. We're all at the mercy of "freezing". Only
by luck, do you figure them out.

You can check the Event Viewer. That's one place to
look. But there's no reason for an event to be
reported. Freezing doesn't have to leave "bread crumbs"
when it happens. Sometimes, the cause can be some
driver you updated, some software you added, and
so on.

If you boot an alternate OS (say, a Linux LiveCD), and
the computer halts in exactly the same way, you'd suspect
a hardware fault. If symptoms manifest in a different way,
then you're no further ahead, in terms of collecting
evidence.

*******

I had a situation very similar to yours just yesterday.

1) Power up computer not used for six months.
2) Unit had PS/2 keyboard and PS/2 mouse connected.
3) When to Start : Run, and tried to type in devmgmt.msc.
As I was typing, the keyboard and the mouse stopped working.
4) Reached for my trusty USB keyboard and USB mouse.
Plugged those in (leaving PS/2 devices in place). You
can run with two keyboards and two mice if you wish.
Windows detected new hardware. So it wasn't "frozen".
5) I was able to finish typing, using the USB keyboard.
6) After I was finished whatever I was doing, I rebooted,
and the PS/2 devices were able to complete test case (3)
without a problem. When I did Start : Run and entered
devmgmt.msc, it worked and Device Manager appeared on
the screen.

What was the problem ? I haven't a clue...

Paul
Click to expand...
The CPU temperature is 134 the mother board 96 (Fahrenheit).
Thanks a lot to all of you.
In summary , I check Hd, Hd cables heat sink, fan and come back to you.
 
Sydney2 said:
Le 01/07/2012 21:44, Paul a écrit :
The CPU temperature is 134 the mother board 96 (Fahrenheit).
Thanks a lot to all of you.
In summary , I check Hd, Hd cables heat sink, fan and come back to you.
Click to expand...

134F is 56.6C.

I would work on the cooling, if I was ever seeing 65C on the
CPU as a "socket temperature".

There are two methods for temperature measurement. "Socket temperature"
might be 65C. "Silicon die / digital temperature / core temperature"
might measure 90C. When the temperature is measured inside the CPU,
it's hotter. Socket temperature measurement is the old way, using
an external thermistor underneath the socket or nearby.

You can tell the difference between the two, by the dynamics. If
you run SuperPi benchmark, which loads the CPU to 100%, a silicon
die temperature measurement will pop up instantly. A temperature
measurement done at the socket, takes time to respond. It
will be lethargic. The time for the temperature measurement
to rise, hints at the measurement method (socket or die).

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/366/Super_PI_Mod_v1.5.html

(Superpi can be seen running on the left here)

http://hwbot.org/image/142719.jpg

The processor companies, when they reference temperature on the old
processors, call it Tcase_max. If the Tcase_max was 65C, then
you'd want to cool the processor to below that value for best
results.

Modern processors "throttle" or reduce clock rate, if they get
too hot. And the THERMTRIP feature, turns off the PC power
abruptly (no time to turn off OS), and that is what protects
the processor if the heatsink/fan "falls off".

Some of the older processors, they're unprotected against
certain kinds of failures. If you knocked a heatsink off
an Athlon, sometimes the Athlon would fry, because the
software protection method would crash before it could
activate.

To know more about your CPU, you can use CPUZ to get name
and details.

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

Use the "No install, 32 bit version" if you wish.
Unzip, and use it.

http://www.cpuid.com/downloads/cpu-z/1.60.1-32bits-en.zip

CPUZ is on the upper right, of that hwbot.org screenshot.

Paul
 
Le 01/07/2012 21:44, Paul a écrit :
If a processor was defective, it would most like "crash and
go off into the woods".

If there is a delay (freeze) and a continuation, a culprit
might be a kernel call that is jammed up. The kernel calls
should serialize and block, and if one stops when it isn't
supposed to, all activity stops too.

An example of an "unexpected condition" in the computer,
would be a bad sector on the hard drive. It might take
up to 15 seconds for the issue to be resolved (sector
spared out or whatever). In which time, the
computer could experience a delay. And finally,
a release, when the kernel call returns.

Note - freezes can be very hard to figure out. If you
remain puzzled by the source of yours, you would not
be alone. We're all at the mercy of "freezing". Only
by luck, do you figure them out.

You can check the Event Viewer. That's one place to
look. But there's no reason for an event to be
reported. Freezing doesn't have to leave "bread crumbs"
when it happens. Sometimes, the cause can be some
driver you updated, some software you added, and
so on.

If you boot an alternate OS (say, a Linux LiveCD), and
the computer halts in exactly the same way, you'd suspect
a hardware fault. If symptoms manifest in a different way,
then you're no further ahead, in terms of collecting
evidence.

*******

I had a situation very similar to yours just yesterday.

1) Power up computer not used for six months.
2) Unit had PS/2 keyboard and PS/2 mouse connected.
3) When to Start : Run, and tried to type in devmgmt.msc.
As I was typing, the keyboard and the mouse stopped working.
4) Reached for my trusty USB keyboard and USB mouse.
Plugged those in (leaving PS/2 devices in place). You
can run with two keyboards and two mice if you wish.
Windows detected new hardware. So it wasn't "frozen".
5) I was able to finish typing, using the USB keyboard.
6) After I was finished whatever I was doing, I rebooted,
and the PS/2 devices were able to complete test case (3)
without a problem. When I did Start : Run and entered
devmgmt.msc, it worked and Device Manager appeared on
the screen.

What was the problem ? I haven't a clue...

Paul
Click to expand...
It appears after checks of HDD, Hd cables, processor heat sink that the
culprit seems to be the application itself (Echecs 3D chess program ).
Future use of the computer will confirm or not.
 
Back
Top