DC RAID Configuration

  • Thread starter Thread starter jamestulloch
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J

jamestulloch

Hi,

I have to deploy about 30 2003 DCs. 2500 users across 40 Europe wide
locations. Each server has 6 disks. I have two issues.

1) Do I make three mirrors and put OS on 1, SYSVOL on 2 and NTDS.dit
on 3. Ten where does the page file go? I have 2GB memory.

2) My onboard RAID Controller does not have battery back up. Do I
insiste that we get new cards or should we stick with onboard. If we do
should I enable write back on the cache.

Any thoughts? Joe from Joeware published a response to a similar
question in 2004, but nowhere I look does MS say. HP recommend the
above but dont mention page file. I am proposing keeing it with the OS
unless soemone out there can give me a more definite pointer.

TIA

James
 
I have not seen MSFT produce a definitive guide because every individual
situation and environment differ. With many architectural decisions, there
are many ways you could go. For my small business customers, we often use
six disks on a built-in RAID controller (both SCSI and SATA). First two
disks are mirrored and the last four are RAID5 with one hot swap. Then we
also backup to tape or online backup provider so that we're not relying on
either RAID array to be the only form of backup.

I have heard about how MSFT does their own internal DC's and I have never
seen such redundant redundancy in a server spec before or since. I don't
remember all the specifics, but they did something like a mirrored stripe
set with four disks for the OS, then a mirrored stripe with parity for the
second volume with six more disks on a separate controller. Something along
those lines. I'd never seen so many disks used in a single server that
wasn't hosting huge amounts of data.

If I'm guessing right about the load you'll have on these servers (if
they're only DC's and not running other major server apps), with 30 DC's
servicing 2500 users distributed across the system geographically, you're
averaging between 50 and 100 users per DC. With a load like that, you have
a lot of flexibility in your configuration. If you were serving 2500 users
on a single pair of DC's, it would be much more important where you put the
dit file and the pagefile.

The one thing I would require on a server I was building is the battery
backup on the RAID card. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to spend the
kind of money you're talking about, with good redundancy and then end up
dropping data off the RAID controller.

In this scenario, I would be tempted to create two stripe sets (with or
without parity depending on the performance I needed) and mirror them. I
have read a lot of arguments against using RAID5, but in my personal
experience, 10 years spanning life as a sysadmin, support engineer at msft
and a small business IT consultant, I've never seen two disks in one RAID5
fail at the same time (I hope I didn't just tempt fate).

When I worked at msft I occasionally reviewed AD architecture plans for
large consulting organizations. I (and my teammates) would give approval on
any setup that provided adequate redundancy and I never saw any specific
configuration that was used more than another. It was always dependent on
the overall scenario more than anything else.

If my assumptions about the load on these DC's are right, I would mirror two
3 disk RAID5 sets on each DC. That's certainly not the most high
performance configuration for that hardware, but it also makes it very
unlikely that you'll suffer a failure of one of those servers because of
disk issues. Higher performance would be to mirror a stripe set (RAID0, no
parity), you'd get the redundancy of the mirroring, but faster reads and
writes.

If you want to provide more specifics about the environment and expected
load on these DC's, that might make it easier to narrow down the scope of
options you have.

Hope this feedback helps you decide which way is right for your environment.

Happy Thanksgiving!

--
Mike Shepperd
Sunfire Solutions LLC
Seattle, WA

[This posting is provided AS-IS, with no warranties and confers no rights]
 
Microsoft's current standard config for Domain Controllers is DL585's
with 8-10 spindles. 6 spindles are for the DIT, they are in a hardware
based 0+1 RAID configuration. If the machine has 6 spindles then OS/Logs
go on a hardware mirror, if 10 then they go on a 4 disk hardware based
0+1 RAID.

The number of spindles isn't for amount of disk, it is for IOPS
capability. A DC in a large environment with Exchange can take a lot of
pounding and you want as much spare IOPS as possible to keep up with it.
Their DIT is only in the teens in size so the disks themselves could be
small, you just need many to get the high IOPS (read OPS really) that
make AD really run smoothly. x64 does help out but that is primarily
with LDAP only functions. Authentication is not helped out nearly so
much and disk is still a bottle neck there, this is pretty clearly
visible in the x64 whitepaper MSFT has put out.

The only official recommendation I have seen from MSFT on RAID configs
is in the deployment guide but that is for smaller environment. That
document talks about 3 RAID sets, usually 3 mirrors (OS/Logs/DIT),
however they mention that the DIT set could be a 0+1/1+0. I think that
is 2 RAID sets too many for any deployment unless the DC is something
other than just a DC.

Personally, most folks with larger environments seem to deploy DCs that
you can get only 6-8 disks into and for those occasions I tend to
recommend a single RAID 0+1/10/5. The perf difference between 0+1/10 and
5 is usually 10% or less. If you absolutely want the fastest RAID, go
with 0+1/10 over the 5. At least that is all of the IO metric testing I
have seen recently. Go back 4-6 years and I actually recall seeing the
Dell PERC card's RAID 5 beating out its RAID 10 config by about 5%.
Probably just poorly written firmware for RAID 10 I would guess.

30 DCs with 2500 users total, unless the environment had a lot of very
heavy use AD apps I would likely be ok for even a single mirror for
those DCs. I would load that many users on a single DC in a heartbeat
though I would never use just a single DC.

Yep, I also don't care to split out OS/Logs/DIT. On a normal busy DC
that is simply a DC, the OS and Logs are but a rounding error in IOPS
next to the DIT. That means you are wasting IOPS on the OS/Logs sets
that the DIT could make good use of. The page file is also something I
am not terribly worried about on a DC because most of the memory should
be used for caching the DIT, that is never cached out, if memory
pressure is too great, the cache will trim to allow other things into
memory. Very little to nothing else really should be running on DCs so
you don't have other worries about paging.

The one time I have seen a need for a separate Logs drive was for a test
done in the Microsoft Enterprise Computing Center where one of my
friends built a 2TB DIT for ADAM in a month. He was adding tons of new
objects and of course the Logs were seeing tremendous amounts of IO for
that. Very much a corner case with AD as AD is very much read oriented.

If you like running all sorts of stuff (crap) on a DC, then there is no
generic formula, you get to sit in a lab and work out the perf on what
is best for you and how your DCs are being used. The main thing to keep
in mind is that everything you add to a DC is adding additional surface
area and attack vectors on the machine that is the core of your
Microsoft security infrastructure.



--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net


---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---

http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
 
1. I wouldn't. I would do 0+1/10/5 for RAID, you could even likely get
away with a single mirror on those machines since the number of users is
so small assuming there isn't any real heavy duty AD apps. I run a
single RAID set even on the biggest DCs I work with which includes DCs
for 200k+ user environments. Page file really is a non-issue on DCs
since most of the memory should be going to AD Cache which will never go
into the page file. Maybe have two logical drives simply to separate OS
and DIT/LOGS (not for perf) and throw the page file with the OS on C.

2. If you don't have battery backup, disable write-back caching.

--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net


---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---

http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
 
Hey Joe,

Great information, very deep and well explained.

Thanks,

--

Mike Shepperd
Sunfire Solutions LLC
Seattle, WA

[This posting is provided AS-IS, with no warranties and confers no rights]
 
Joe, Mike,

Thanks for your replies. It really helps to have guys like you out
there giving your time, not to say knowledge. I especially liked the
point about not wastin IO capability on OS and Pagefile when the heavy
requirement is on the DIT.

Just for your info the DCs will all host DNS and most likely DHCP too.
There may even be a need for WINS but this is not full defined as yet.
Which evber way it goes these machines are really overkill for the
number of users. We only specified this number of disks so that we can
ship disks to remote geographic locations to keep the servers up.

I convinced them to go for the batery backup thank goodness so at least
that is put to bed.

The original article I based my post on is this:
<http://technet2.microsoft.com/Windo...4407-4ca5-9cd5-e05b79046d081033.mspx?mfr=true>
called "Planning Domain Controller Capacity".

I'll now factor in your comments.

Kind Regards and many thanks

James Tulloch
 
I am not a fan of DHCP on DCs, there can be security implications. DNS
is kind of a case of you generally have to do it, but if I have a
choice, I won't put that on DCs either, especially in larger orgs, I
tend to prefer DNS on UNIX especially if I need to do a lot of
delegation to other admins.

--
Joe Richards Microsoft MVP Windows Server Directory Services
Author of O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition
www.joeware.net


---O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition now available---

http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
 
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