Data Recovery Services ?

[Someone]

We have a Maxtor "DiamondMax Plus 8" 40GB hard drive
which was formatted for FAT32. It doesn't work anymore.

The drive spins up, no unusual noises. During POST, the
drive is auto-detected properly. After POST, however,
BIOS says "Primary hard drive failure" and stops. Hard
drive does not spin down, though.

After booting into DOS from DOS boot disk, attempting to
change to drive C brings "Invalid drive letter." FDISK
says "no hard drives detected." Moving hard drive to
another computer results in same behavior, so problem
seems to be the HD and not the controller/motherboard/BIOS.

We also tried Maxtor's "powermax" utility, which says "Error UK0E02"
(Drive recal test failed.)

We sent the drive to Ontrack, who said they looked at it in their
"clean room" but found nothing recoverable as the "data was too corrupted."

As far as I know, Ontrack is completely reliable and capable. But before
I throw in the towel, I thought I'd post something here to get other opinions.

Thanks.

 

[HddGuru]

SEND ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS, I MAY BE ABLE TO HELP.

 

[Joep]

There's a whole bunch of people here that *might* be able to help, plus that
like to learn you magic, so why turn this into a private conversation?

 

[anon]

but that is the wonderful part of DR - everyone has their hidden
"techniques" and do not like to reveal "secrets"

btw - I have sent a few jobs forward to Ontrack - they have a good success
history.

Most likely if Ontrack could not recover the data is not recoverable. Did
Ontrack offer a second opinion from another company?

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Define 'bootblock' ... if you mean MBR, active partition etc: ... that can
hardly a reason to NOT detect a physical disk, this would mean it would
never detect a brand new disk you try to hook up.

Pay attention, Joep. Or consult a doctor, you don't seem to be your usual
self. Don't change the meaning of my words, the operative word was "error".
Like in error to read from the drive, most likely looking for an active par-
tition since the bootstage is next after POST and this would be a perfect
opportunity to establish whether the drive is ready and fit to be included
in the drive list. As to inclusion in the bios, it doesn't care what is in that
sector, just that it reads without error. The active partition lookup is for
setting up the boot sequence. Just performing 2 functions with one read.

This suggests that they were actually able to at least look at the disks
contents otherwise they'd have said we can't even read the darn thing ...

Oh? Why do you think they took it to their clean room?

If so, I think they should be able to at least read it and clone it to another
drive. Don't know what they charge for that, but then you'd be looking at
recovery from logical damage rather than physical.

Nope, also from physical, i.e. corrupted data. You would need some
thing like SpinRite to approximate as close as possible what the
original data was. And that only works on the original drive.

You'd then at least have a chance to let commercial tools show
there magic and see what they can make of the logical structures.

Which is exactly what Ontrack do, Joep, what their business is.
According to them "data was too corrupted".

It might be that they felt that the cost of stripping the drive to
it's platters and reading them externally would hugely outweigh the
tiny benefits of the small amount of useful data that that would bring.

There is only so much that they can do to initially assess the damage
without actually recovering the drive.

 

[HddGuru]

His drive needs physical local access..... by me ;O)

 

[Nick]

but that is the wonderful part of DR - everyone has their hidden
"techniques" and do not like to reveal "secrets"

btw - I have sent a few jobs forward to Ontrack - they have a good success
history.

Most likely if Ontrack could not recover the data is not recoverable. Did
Ontrack offer a second opinion from another company?

Datex DSM, in France, was able to recover data when Ontrack couldn't.
But the opposite is true as well

Nick

 

[Joep]

Pay attention, Joep. Or consult a doctor, you don't seem to be your usual
self. Don't change the meaning of my words, the operative word was "error".
Like in error to read from the drive, most likely looking for an active par-
tition since the bootstage is next after POST and this would be a perfect
opportunity to establish whether the drive is ready and fit to be included
in the drive list. As to inclusion in the bios, it doesn't care what is in that
sector, just that it reads without error. The active partition lookup is for
setting up the boot sequence. Just performing 2 functions with one read.

I simply ASKED what you meant by bootblock Mr. Paranoid. I simply mentioned
that if you meant MBR corruption etc. then this didn't seem a plausible
explanation to me. If anyone should see a Doctor (read: Psychiatrist) it is
you.

....

Oh? Why do you think they took it to their clean room?

Because OP mentioned this, meaning YOU should read better, not me. So, since
you're on your way to a medical center anyway .... maybe someone can take a
look at your eyes.

Nope, also from physical, i.e. corrupted data. You would need some
thing like SpinRite to approximate as close as possible what the
original data was. And that only works on the original drive.


Which is exactly what Ontrack do, Joep, what their business is.

Oh come on .... your lying, that's not what they do, do they?

According to them "data was too corrupted".

Yes, we all and even I could read that.

It might be that they felt that the cost of stripping the drive to
it's platters and reading them externally would hugely outweigh the
tiny benefits of the small amount of useful data that that would bring.

If they have corrupt data, they can actually read the drive, otherwise
they'd have NO data, it's up to the client to decide if that's worth it. If
they can read it maybe then may be able to (partially) clone it. It was YOU
who in the Spinrite thread that mentioned that 'poor', or incomplete data
was better than no data.

From experience I can tell that if you push them a little they sometimes can
do what they just told you they couldn't do.


Joep

 

[Joep]

Nope, also from physical, i.e. corrupted data.

Physical i.e. corrupted data? ... No, there's corrupt data because of
physical damage. Once you have the corrupt data on a NEW disk you deal with
corrupt data only, not physical damage.

 

[Folkert Rienstra]

Physical i.e. corrupted data?

Another attempt to take my words out of context and then trying to
find fault with them? What did that doctor say, Joep, is it compulsary?

... No, there's corrupt data because of physical damage.
Once you have the corrupt data on a NEW disk you deal with
corrupt data only, not physical damage.

Which is still a copy of the physically damaged data and still irrepairable.

Thank you Joep, for admitting your omission, that one will be dealing with
corrupt data caused by physical damage, not just a scrambled filesystem
that can be logically repaired.

 

[Joep]

No you didn't. You asked a rethorical question that you answered yourself.

No, I asked, simply asked, everything you look for behind a question is fed
by your paranoia: I said, 'if you mean' leaving plenty of room for you to
correct me, or for any reader to decide that there might have been another
explanation to your words. You show all clasic signs of paranoia. The
concept of rethorics is beyond your comprehension.

Obviously not since the bios doesn't care about logical corruption
where drive recognition is concerned except for a physically
damaged MBR i.e. sector 0, in which case the drive is "not ready",

That was abvious to me, but not obvious from your reply at all hence my
reply.

(to coin a SCSI phrase in the absence of a suitable 'ATA state'
phrase). In such case the BIOS ignores the drive.

Blah blah blah ... quote some of your favorite trivial persuit knowledge ...
thank you ...

Even then it is, in the case of physical damage to the MBR.

Point was that I asumed there was NO physical damage and I made that very
clear.

You left this out of your reply because you have no reply.

You are the one that says I'm lying, you proof it.
Shooting from the hip again, are we?

This was sarcasm, you're too stupid to see that ...

Yes, apparently it is comprehension that you appear to be lacking.

Talking to those voices in your head again?

'read the drive' is the operative phrase here. Since they mentioned
'cleanroom' they may have used a special rig to be able to come that far.

Aha, so now they DID mention cleanroom! And you as well, thinking I wouldn't
notice that if you casually blend that in? And then simply build conclusions
from a fact that you denied earlier ... da's lef hebben ...

There is always data, unless the heads were torn off

Exactly

in which case

-using other means- you can look at residual data, or the magnetic
coating scraped off in which case it's a lost cause. The data they
found, by whatever means they used, may be unstructured, lacking
begin and end of sectors or lacking sector address information.


No, it is for them to advise their client if that's worth it. It is they
who by their examination know in what state the data is in and whether

there is any possibility of making sense of it again. If it

will be going anywhere at all. They can't just bill their client for several thousands
of dollars knowing that the data delivered will be worthless.
They have a reputation to protect.

You're guessing here and your guess in no better than mine.

As you said yourself, they would do that if it was worthwile.
Apparently they felt not.

Nope I have dealt with Ontrack and so have several of my clients: when
pushing it a little they delivered more than they innitially indicated.

And your point is?

If you don't see my point it is pointless talking to you.

Where I said that it was in the case of damaged FATs

where one byte of recovered FAT can recover thousands of bytes of
user file data. That leveraging effect isn't there for the data areas.

If you would have read this it would have prevented you from making some
stupid remarks earlier on.

Joep