creating a start disk on a usb memory stick

  • Thread starter Thread starter Guest
  • Start date Start date
G

Guest

Hi everyone
I have a problem regarding a pc without a disk drive. So I was wondering if
anyone knows how to make a start "disk" on a usb memory stick. If it can be
done???
 
Hi, Newb.

A PC without a disk drive? I've never heard of such a computer! The last
computer I had without a disk drive was my original TRS-80, back in 1977,
which loaded from a music cassette; we got floppy drives the next year and
hard drives for our IBM and compatible PCs in the mid-80s, and I haven't
seen a diskless PC since then. Do you mean your computer has no CD/DVD
drives?

What make and model computer do you have? Is it on a network? Tell us more
about that.

To make a PC bootable from a USB memory stick, you must have support for USB
and that memory stick built into the computer's BIOS - the small amount of
memory that is not forgotten when the power is turned off - the part that
tells the computer how to start and load everything else, including the
parts that load and start Windows. So far as I know, there is no computer
on the market - yet -with that much capability in the BIOS. Today's PCs can
use USB until it has loaded the USB drivers, so we have a chicken-and-egg
problem in trying to boot from any kind of USB hardware.

RC
 
The Newb said:
I have a problem regarding a pc without a disk drive. So I was wondering if
anyone knows how to make a start "disk" on a usb memory stick. If it can be
done???
Click to expand...

Many USB sticks come with a driver disk that also contains a manual or
a software that will help you with this.
 
Salut/Hi R. C. White,

le/on Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:43:55 -0600, tu disais/you said:-
A PC without a disk drive? I've never heard of such a computer!
Click to expand...

I've had several.

Sinclair ZX80
Sinclair ZX81
Sinclair Spectrum ZX64
BBC B
Amstrad CPC 6128
Amstrad PCW 9256

and my first PC.

Grin!

I can - hypothetically - think of several reasons why one might want this.

Imagine that you are a terrorist. If you store information on HD, it can
become evidence to be used against you in trial. Windows is so insecure that
it is practically impossible to use it, without it leaving traces of what
you've been doing lying about. So it might be advisable NOT to have anything
compromising permanently attached to the physical computer you use all the
time. This is especially true in the UK, which has no 5th amendment and
where it is now an absolute offence to refuse to open an encrypted container
when ordered to do so by a law court.

The same reasoning could apply to anyone wanting to use computers for any
other illegal activity.

Imagine you want to use on several (same make and model) machines. If you
could boot all the machines from an identical and transportable drive, then
any machine you use would look and feel the same and your data would travel
with you.

USB sticks are the most secure form of data storage known. A recent
experiment showed them resisting high temperature, low temperature,
corrosive liquids, and mechanical stress (being run over by a car, and shot
from a mortar, even) better than any other storage medium.
 
By 'disk drive' do you mean floppy drive?
Or no floppy, cd, or hard drive of any kind?
 
Hi, Ian.
I've had several.

Sinclair ZX80
Click to expand...
<snip list>

Yeah, I heard of those - in addition to my own TRS=80s. But those were when
we still called them "microcomputers" or a variety of other names. As I
recall, we didn't call them PCs until IBM introduced its Personal Computer
in 1981 - and it always had a floppy disk drive.

I can imagine a workstation, attached to a network, which might not need a
disk drive of any kind, but I've never had anything but a standalone
computer. "PC", it seems to me, implies standalone capability, even if it
can connect to a network.

I like USB and don't dispute its utility. But booting from USB is a new
idea to me, so I'm learning from this thread. ;<)

RC
 
Hi, Harry.

Thanks for the update on booting from USB.
While certainly not the norm it is no longer unusual for new systems to
ship
without a floppy drive.
Click to expand...

But the OP said "a pc without a disk drive", so I interpreted that to mean
with neither HD nor floppy.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP

Harry Ohrn said:
While certainly not the norm it is no longer unusual for new systems to
ship
without a floppy drive. This is true for laptops as well as tower or
desktop
models. While not common on older systems many new PCs can now boot USB
devices. See the information here
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1676
--

Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell/User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


R. C. White said:
Hi, Newb.

A PC without a disk drive? I've never heard of such a computer! The
last
computer I had without a disk drive was my original TRS-80, back in 1977,
which loaded from a music cassette; we got floppy drives the next year
and
hard drives for our IBM and compatible PCs in the mid-80s, and I haven't
seen a diskless PC since then. Do you mean your computer has no CD/DVD
drives?

What make and model computer do you have? Is it on a network? Tell us more
about that.

To make a PC bootable from a USB memory stick, you must have support for USB
and that memory stick built into the computer's BIOS - the small amount
of
memory that is not forgotten when the power is turned off - the part that
tells the computer how to start and load everything else, including the
parts that load and start Windows. So far as I know, there is no
computer
on the market - yet -with that much capability in the BIOS. Today's PCs can
use USB until it has loaded the USB drivers, so we have a chicken-and-egg
problem in trying to boot from any kind of USB hardware.

RC
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
A truly Thin Client.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
R. C. White said:
Hi, Ian.
I've had several.

Sinclair ZX80
Click to expand...
<snip list>

Yeah, I heard of those - in addition to my own TRS=80s. But those were
when we still called them "microcomputers" or a variety of other names.
As I recall, we didn't call them PCs until IBM introduced its Personal
Computer in 1981 - and it always had a floppy disk drive.

I can imagine a workstation, attached to a network, which might not need a
disk drive of any kind, but I've never had anything but a standalone
computer. "PC", it seems to me, implies standalone capability, even if it
can connect to a network.

I like USB and don't dispute its utility. But booting from USB is a new
idea to me, so I'm learning from this thread. ;<)

RC
Click to expand...
 
Salut/Hi R. C. White,

le/on Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:08:30 -0600, tu disais/you said:-
Hi, Ian.

<snip list>

Yeah, I heard of those - in addition to my own TRS=80s. But those were when
we still called them "microcomputers" or a variety of other names. As I
recall, we didn't call them PCs until IBM introduced its Personal Computer
in 1981 - and it always had a floppy disk drive.
Click to expand...

Good point. I'd sort of not noticed your "PC" restriction. So strike the
Sinclairs which were never called PCs. The Amstrads were on the other hand,
The CPC 464 was the "Colour Personal Computer" model 4 with 64k of RAM. My
6128 did have a single 3" floppy drive and 128k of RAM.
I can imagine a workstation, attached to a network, which might not need a
disk drive of any kind, but I've never had anything but a standalone
computer. "PC", it seems to me, implies standalone capability, even if it
can connect to a network.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't want to go to the wall over this, but in those days quite a lot
of data was stored on little tape cassettes, and paper tape drives were used
too. I THINK the earliest IBM PCs had 5.25" floppy drives (truly floppy by
the way). At the time, the debate was over whether CPM or MSDOS would
prevail. MSDOS stood for Microsoft Disc Operating System, so it's logical
that even from its earliest day the IMB PC was conceived of as using
floppies.
I like USB and don't dispute its utility. But booting from USB is a new
idea to me, so I'm learning from this thread. ;<)
Click to expand...

I've seen some discussions of the possibility and I can well imagine quite a
number of possible other circumstances when the ability to boot from a
removable drive might be useful. For example, one could imagine having a
second operating system on a plug in drive and that could be kept entirely
separate. One could even conceive of someone who kept XP on one USB drive
and Linux or Unix on another, keeping nothing but encrypted data on the main
computer hard drive. That would be extraordinarily secure, if you think
about it, as without having access to the appropriate OS, you couldn't even
_begin_ to know how to approach data decryption. For example, a Truecrypt
encrypted drive looks and feels like an unformatted drive. It can only be
unlocked with a running version of the software and the right password. Of
course, it goes without saying that such a thing would be very unpopular
with Law enforcement agencies, as it would be impossible to prove that the
hard drive WAS an encrypted drive.
 
In
Ian Hoare said:
I THINK the earliest IBM PCs had 5.25" floppy
drives (truly floppy by the way).
Click to expand...


Yes. Modern 3.5" floppy disks are still floppy. However, unlike
the 5.25" diskettes you're referring to, they are packaged in a
hard plastic casing.

By the way, as a matter of historical interest, the first floppy
disks were 8". They were first introduced to load the microcode
on IBM mainframes around 1970.
 
If I remember right, the IBM 5150 first shipped with only a jack for a
cassette recorder at the base price. It booted to the Basic prompt. The
5.25 drive was extra. I never saw one without a floppy and the cassette
recorder idea never caught on.

I used 8" diskettes on a dedicated word processor in the late 70's and had
to pay around $10 apiece. When I first taught Basic as a middle school math
teacher (1969), we accessed a time-sharing mainframe with a teletype machine
and saved the programs to paper tape.

In high school in the 50's we computed ballistics problems with rubber bands
and paper clips. :)
 
Hi,

I remember working for a small company that installed and maintained
networks using Windows for Workgroups 3.11. The workstation computers did
not have a hard drive, but booted from a floppy disk that enable the
computer to connect to a server to download and run the O/S and other
programs from. The PC just had the FDD no HDD at all. The floppy disk had
the autoexec.bat, config.sys and all other necessary drivers, especially the
ethernet drivers (back then we were using Lantastic). The PC would boot
from the floppy, connect to the server then download the necessary files and
programs to the PC`s RAM to operate.

Jeff

Colin Barnhorst said:
If I remember right, the IBM 5150 first shipped with only a jack for a
cassette recorder at the base price. It booted to the Basic prompt. The
5.25 drive was extra. I never saw one without a floppy and the cassette
recorder idea never caught on.

I used 8" diskettes on a dedicated word processor in the late 70's and had
to pay around $10 apiece. When I first taught Basic as a middle school
math teacher (1969), we accessed a time-sharing mainframe with a teletype
machine and saved the programs to paper tape.

In high school in the 50's we computed ballistics problems with rubber
bands and paper clips. :)

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
Ian Hoare said:
Salut/Hi R. C. White,

le/on Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:08:30 -0600, tu disais/you said:-


Good point. I'd sort of not noticed your "PC" restriction. So strike the
Sinclairs which were never called PCs. The Amstrads were on the other
hand,
The CPC 464 was the "Colour Personal Computer" model 4 with 64k of RAM.
My
6128 did have a single 3" floppy drive and 128k of RAM.


I wouldn't want to go to the wall over this, but in those days quite a
lot
of data was stored on little tape cassettes, and paper tape drives were
used
too. I THINK the earliest IBM PCs had 5.25" floppy drives (truly floppy
by
the way). At the time, the debate was over whether CPM or MSDOS would
prevail. MSDOS stood for Microsoft Disc Operating System, so it's logical
that even from its earliest day the IMB PC was conceived of as using
floppies.

I've seen some discussions of the possibility and I can well imagine
quite a
number of possible other circumstances when the ability to boot from a
removable drive might be useful. For example, one could imagine having a
second operating system on a plug in drive and that could be kept
entirely
separate. One could even conceive of someone who kept XP on one USB drive
and Linux or Unix on another, keeping nothing but encrypted data on the
main
computer hard drive. That would be extraordinarily secure, if you think
about it, as without having access to the appropriate OS, you couldn't
even
_begin_ to know how to approach data decryption. For example, a Truecrypt
encrypted drive looks and feels like an unformatted drive. It can only be
unlocked with a running version of the software and the right password.
Of
course, it goes without saying that such a thing would be very unpopular
with Law enforcement agencies, as it would be impossible to prove that
the
hard drive WAS an encrypted drive.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Salut/Hi "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(nojunk)@msn.com>,

le/on Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:35:16 -0700, tu disais/you said:-
If I remember right, the IBM 5150 first shipped with only a jack for a
cassette recorder at the base price. It booted to the Basic prompt. The
5.25 drive was extra. I never saw one without a floppy and the cassette
recorder idea never caught on.
Click to expand...

On the first IBM PCs, _everything_ was extra. Keyboard, monitor, video
adaptor, (d'you remember the old Hercules board?) everything!! I'm surprised
though about the FDD!
In high school in the 50's we computed ballistics problems with rubber bands
and paper clips. :)
Click to expand...

Ah... those were the days, I remember one day at the physics lab doing that.
I was seeking, in addition to computing ballistics, to demonstrate the
resonance of enamelled steel lampshades. I am afraid that my aim was a touch
off, because the paper clip hit the light bulb, broke it, and lodged between
the two terminals of the coiled coil of the bulb. After the sound of
tinkling glass, instantly followed by the flash and bang of the short
circuit and the descent of darkness as every fuse in the place blew, came
the awed voice of Gordon, the lab assistant. "Good shot, Ian". (I failed
physics that year!) Later on, when I was older, but no wiser I was
"recruited" to shoot down the demonstration helium filled rescue balloons
released in error at one of the Olympia Boat shows and nestling up against
the ceiling. I did better with my trusty 'lacky band and paper clips than
the staff did with their air rifle!

I have to admit that the rather dishy models who had been employed to wander
round the show trailing their balloons soon learnt not to come near our
stand! They found it disconcerting to be wandering around dangling limp bits
of rubber on the ground! Ah me...
 
Salut/Hi "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(nojunk)@msn.com>,

le/on Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:15:11 -0700, tu disais/you said:-
Great story! But Ian, about that last sentence.... Oh am I tempted!
Click to expand...

"Give in to tempation, it may not pass your way again!" RAH. Sayings of
Lazarus Long
 
Back
Top