CPU terminology / Performance Question

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Bob

While looking for older CPU's to upgrade some P2B's, I've run across
Pentium II's, III's, and Celerons, and some designated as "XEON".

Can somebody give me a short description of what these terms actually
mean in terms of the processor's capabilities, speed, etc ?
 
Bob said:
While looking for older CPU's to upgrade some P2B's, I've run across
Pentium II's, III's, and Celerons, and some designated as "XEON".

Can somebody give me a short description of what these terms actually
mean in terms of the processor's capabilities, speed, etc ?

You can find lots of information here :
http://www.intel.com/products/compare/
 
While looking for older CPU's to upgrade some P2B's, I've run across
Pentium II's, III's, and Celerons, and some designated as "XEON".

Can somebody give me a short description of what these terms actually
mean in terms of the processor's capabilities, speed, etc ?

Forget the P-II and P-III CPU's they are hard to come by at this time.

The Celeron is a good CPU for systems that don't need lots of horsepower
- doing basic tasks is fine, but not for gaming or graphics work.

The P4 comes in two flavors, standard and Xeon right now. Each of these
CPU's comes in various speeds, but the key to remember is that a Xeon is
a server class CPU and may not perform as well as a standard P4 unless
you are using Windows XP Professional or Windows 2003 Server.

Also, Hyper-Threading is only partially supported in Windows 2000 and XP
Professional, but is fully supported in Windows 2003 Server.

When it comes to a very high-end workstation, the PC-DL Deluxe
motherboard with Dual P4/2.4Ghz Xeon 533 FSB CPU's is a screamer. This
same board with Xeon CPU's works great as a low end server also.

For home systems, stick with a fast standard P4 CPU and put your money
into RAM and Video.
 
Forget the P-II and P-III CPU's they are hard to come by at this time.

Can he forget those if he wants to upgrade an old system?

For home systems, stick with a fast standard P4 CPU and put your money
into RAM and Video.

Nice informative post that totally ignores the existance of the
cheaper and superior AMD processors (that the OP also can't use on the
old mobo's).
 
Can he forget those if he wants to upgrade an old system?



Nice informative post that totally ignores the existance of the
cheaper and superior AMD processors (that the OP also can't use on the
old mobo's).

He didn't ask about AMD and as such I didn't post anything about them.
You are correct, I missed his asking about upgrading the old system and
took him to be asking about upgrading by purchasing a new system/board.

There was no advertisement for Intel in the message I posted. The only
thing I can discern from your reply is that you must be an AMD troll?

Why do you want to start an AMD/Intel flame-fest?
 
There was no advertisement for Intel in the message I posted. The only
thing I can discern from your reply is that you must be an AMD troll?

Pardon me for writing a factually relevent reply. You should try it
yourself one day.
 
Pardon me for writing a factually relevent reply. You should try it
yourself one day.

Here, I posted my quoted reply to him below, tell me what isn't factual
about it. I've already admitted that I missed the "to upgrade some
P2B's" part, but he asked about the Intel CPU's and not AMD CPU's.
 
Andrew said:
Pardon me for writing a factually relevent reply. You should try it
yourself one day.

You are out of line here Andrew. Nothing much wrong with Leythos' reply
which was at least a fair attempt to help.

Martin
 
You are out of line here Andrew. Nothing much wrong with Leythos' reply
which was at least a fair attempt to help.

It was a great Intel advertorial, but it didn't address any processors
that the OP asked about.
 
You are out of line here Andrew. Nothing much wrong with Leythos' reply
which was at least a fair attempt to help.

Martin

Thanks Martin - you are all over the place, and I recall I've seen you
in several other groups I frequent (assuming you are the same Martin).

I never try to take an AMD/Intel preference even if I have one (and I
do), but I've been on usenet too long to get into A vs B wars.

l8r
 
Bob said:
While looking for older CPU's to upgrade some P2B's, I've run across
Pentium II's, III's, and Celerons, and some designated as "XEON".

Can somebody give me a short description of what these terms actually
mean in terms of the processor's capabilities, speed, etc ?

As I'm no expert at this stuff, the differentiating factors I've
noticed are:

1) Amount of cache.
2) Whether processors are usable in dual or quad systems.

A Celeron is at the bottom of the pile. It still has a decent core
clock frequency, but a small cache. The one just before I bought
a PC, had zero KB of L2 cache. Users hated this "Celery" so much,
that the next Celeron had 128KB of L2, and Celeron processors since
then will be found with roughly that size cache.

A Pentium will have from two to four times the cache of the
Celeron. Frequently the core of the chip is the same as the
Celeron, as the engineering cost of neutering the core for
market differentiation purposes is too high. The extra cache
makes a difference in terms of "equivalent" core clock speed
of a couple hundred megahertz. (So, if a Pentium and a Celeron
run at the same core clock, it will be like the Pentium is a
couple hundred megahertz faster than the Celeron.)

Pentium processors also have the arbitration logic pinned out
to allow multiple processors. Pentiums are typically used
in duals (presumably their cache is too small for quads).

The Xeon is at the top of the heap, in terms of cache. One of
the reasons for this, is the Xeon tends to be a step behind
when it comes to the front side bus (FSB) clock rate. The
Xeon is normally only used in multiprocessor systems
(2, 4, 8) and the shared bus becomes very long to connect
multiple processors. The longer the bus, the lower the clock
speed allowed. To compensate for the "bus starvation" of the
processors, from sharing the same memory subsystem, extremely
large caches are used to reduce the percentage of the time
that the processor has to go out to the memory subsystem.

When selecting a processor from this lot, care must be taken,
as some processor types may not be properly supported in the
BIOS. Even if a Xeon could be plugged into a P2B, I don't know
how the BIOS would interpret that. For some of the Coppermine
(0.18 micron) and Tualatin (0.13 micron) processors, you'll
need a recent BIOS to have them properly recognized. In some
cases, a microcode patch is needed to make the BIOS "nag" free.

Just for fun, here is Intel's listing of what they current sell.
This will give you some idea of how many different models/types
of processors they make, many of which are irrelevant to the
desktop hobbyist.

http://www.intel.com/intel/finance/pricelist/

To look up the characteristics of Intel processors, try

http://processorfinder.intel.com

HTH,
Paul
 
It was a great Intel advertorial, but it didn't address any processors
that the OP asked about.

Yes, it clearly DID address the processors the OP asked about! I
commented about the Celeron and Xeon processors.

The OP asked:

"I've run across Pentium II's, III's, and Celerons, and some designated
as "XEON".

Can somebody give me a short description of what these terms actually
mean in terms of the processor's capabilities, speed, etc ?"
 
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:15:51 -0500, (e-mail address removed) (Paul) wrote:

<snip excellent post>

Paul:

Thanks for a very informative post. One question on the performance:
Are there any web pages or studies that compare celeron/128k to
non-celeron performance(256+K) performance directly for the same
processor speed? I know that this is an "application" question,
but I'd still be interested in seeing some side-by-sides.
Just for fun, here is Intel's listing of what they current sell.

I actually started here:
http://www.intel.com/design/celeron/qit/update.pdf

Confusing enough already. I did find this page, which is great
for getting the tech specs for any processor:
http://processorfinder.intel.com/scripts/list.asp

Thanks,
 
Xeon's are commercial quality CPU's and take a special motherboard with a
special pin layout and chipset.
 
Pentium II's are ... well, Pentium II's. Pentium II's were made in two
fabrication geometries, called the "Katmai" family and the "Deschutes"
family (Deschutes is better). The changeover point was 333 MHz, that
and above was Deschutes, while 233 to 300 was Deschutes.

Pentium III's are a later variant, at faster clock speeds than Pentium
II's, and they support additional CPU instructions, internally they have
smaller fabrication geometry. It's safe to say that a Pentium III is a
better chip than [any] Pentium II. The lower speed P3's were still in
the "Deschutes" fabrication geometry family, followed by the
"Coppermine" family, then the "Tualatin" family. Coppermine is better
than "Deschutes"; Tualatin is better than Coppermine, BUT most Pentium
III motherboards can't take Tualatin chips. The Pentium III's started
at about 450 MHz; the changeover to Coppermine was at about 550 MHz, the
changeover to Tualatin was at about 1 GHz. At some speeds, chips may
exist from both families (that is, there are both Coppermine and
Tualatin family 1 GHz Pentium 3 CPUs, which are different and not
necessarily interchangeable).

A Celeron is purely a marketing name for a Pentium II, Pentium III or
even a Pentium 4 with a smaller and less effective cache memory system.
Except for the cache system, there is NO difference between a Celeron
and a Pentium of the same speed and same fabrication Geometry family.
Celeron versions exist for virtually every chip (II, III, 4) and
fabrication Geometry family. Although the only difference is in the
cache system, that difference is real and a Celeron is typically about
30% slower than the otherwise comparable Pentium version of the same
chip. However, the Celeron chip may cost only one-third as much as the
corresponding Pentium-family chip.
 
Usually the Celeron is about 15% to 30% slower, but you are correct that
it is VERY application dependent.
 
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