Computer Freezing

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Guest

I recently (last night) reformatted my computer and reinstalled Windows XP
Home Edition. I installed my drivers directly from the manufactor's websites.
When my computer freezes the mouse stops responding and you can't get any
response from the computer from Alt-tabbing, windows key, or Ctrl+alt+deling
but the computer continues to run. It does not shut down or crash. (No errors
appear, No BSOD) I believe it must be a hardware problem. I've done a CHKDSK
on my harddrive and will do a memory test on my RAM as soon as I find a
floppy disk. Before I reformatted I have never had or seen this problem
before on my computer. I have fully updated windows with Windows Update. I am
also currently running a scan of my computer with OneCare. I am also
monitoring the temperature of my computer with a motherboard monitor and it
isn't overheating. I don't really know where to go from here and I can't
really afford to take it to a computer shop that will just convince me to buy
new unneeded parts for my desktop. :( Can anyone suggest any help?
 
A memory and hard drive test would be the first things to do. For the hard
drive, download the diagnostic utility from the hard drive mfg's website, do
not rely on chkdsk, is is not a hardware diagnostic.
 
Anaka said:
I recently (last night) reformatted my computer and reinstalled Windows XP
Home Edition. I installed my drivers directly from the manufactor's
websites.
When my computer freezes the mouse stops responding and you can't get any
response from the computer from Alt-tabbing, windows key, or
Ctrl+alt+deling
but the computer continues to run. It does not shut down or crash. (No
errors
appear, No BSOD) I believe it must be a hardware problem. I've done a
CHKDSK
on my harddrive and will do a memory test on my RAM as soon as I find a
floppy disk. Before I reformatted I have never had or seen this problem
before on my computer. I have fully updated windows with Windows Update. I
am
also currently running a scan of my computer with OneCare. I am also
monitoring the temperature of my computer with a motherboard monitor and
it
isn't overheating. I don't really know where to go from here and I can't
really afford to take it to a computer shop that will just convince me to
buy
new unneeded parts for my desktop. :( Can anyone suggest any help?
Click to expand...


Anaka:
1. You say this "freezing" problem arose after you "reformatted my computer"
and apparently fresh-installed the XP OS. Did you do this fresh install of
XP because of some problem(s) you were previously having with your system?
Could this have any bearing on your present problem?

2. Do you think there could be some problem with your HDD (notwithstanding
the chkdsk routine)? Think it might be wise to check out the disk with the
diagnostic utility that should be available for download from the
manufacturer of the HDD?

3. When you say you "reformatted my computer" - did you do this through the
XP installation process, i.e., through the XP installation CD? If not, how
did you "reformat" the HDD? Are you working with multiple HDDs?

4. When you fresh installed the OS were there any problems of any kind
during the installation process? No error messages of any kind? It went
smoothly and without incident? And you were able to boot to a Desktop
immediately following the XP install? And you were able to install the
motherboard drivers without any problems immediately after the XP install,
right? So when did this "freezing" problem occur?

5. Do you think something possibly went awry with the OS installation
process and it may simply be worthwhile to undertake another fresh install?
Is this practical in your situation? Have you given that any thought?

6. As to your present problem - are you *always* able to boot to a Desktop
without incident? No problems at all re booting up?

7. When does this "freezing" occur? Right after bootup? At random times?
When you perform a specific act?

8. I take it from your description that when this "freezing" occurs, it
affects the mouse & keyboard but the screen display is unaffected - no black
screen or screen distortion, etc.

9. So what do you do when this happens? Reboot? Power down and start up
again? And the same "freezing" situation re:occurs?

10. You obviously was able to post your message re this problem? You did so
on the "problem" machine? Or are you using another PC?

11. And finally, just to repeat - you say (or at least inferred) that you
had no problems with your PC prior to undertaking a fresh install of the XP
OS, although it's unclear why you found it necessary to fresh install the
OS. That this problem arose *only* after you installed the OS, right?
Anna
 
Wow that's a lot of questions. I just did a memory test with Windows Memory
Diagonistics and it passed all the tests. I think this may be helpful, my
computer will also freeze in safe mode.

And to answer:
1. There were no problems prior to reformating my computer. The reason I
reformated was because I wanted a to optimize my system. I do this once or
twice a year when needed. Your harddrive becomes fragmented due to moving
files, downloading files, uninstalling and installing, and etc. I wanted to
clean my harddrive so I could have less cache misses. I was planning to
install all my programming applications (VS, DirectX SDK, V Tune, MSDN, etc.)
which eats up a lot of space and I need it to be as neatly placed as
possible. I hope that answers that question.

2. When I did a CHKDSK the last 2 steps (4 and 5) took a long time to
complete. Seeing as I have tested a lot of other things I believe it may be
the harddrive. I am having trouble finding the diagnostic utility for my
harddrive. The model is WDC WD800JB-00ETA0 if anyone can help me with that.

3. To reformat my computer I made a floopy bootdisk. Inserted it and let it
run. Restarted my computer with OS CD and went to the blue setup screen. I
deleted my old partition and then created a new one afterwards. It went
through the setup process and restarted. Then the OS setup started.
Everything went smoothly. I did not have any freezing problems at this point.

4. No error messages. Yes, I could boot up fine with the fresh install. I
immediately went to the motherboard's website let it scan and pick up my
motherboard which it did correctly. I downloaded all the drivers it listed.
No freezing occured after this point. I did windows updates. (SP1, SP2) It
had to of done about 200 updates throughout all of that. I updated my
graphics card drivers at this point. It wouldn't allow me to without .NET
2.0. After this point I started having freezing problems.

5. No I do not believe so.

6. The freezing is random. It may not even get to the logon screen. Most of
the time it does. Sometimes it freezes when you are logging on after you
clicked on your name. Sometimes it freezes when starting up programs. I have
no starting programs other than drivers. Sometimes it doesn't freeze for a
couple minutes to a couple hours. I haven't seen it go for longer than 2
hours without freezing.

7. See 6.

8. No the screen up stops updating. I do not get the white screen meaning my
graphics card ran out of memory or a black screen (no idea what that means).
No distortion as well.

9. I restart the computer with the restart key until it will allow me back on.

10. On the problem PC. Lol.

11. See 1.
 
Anaka said:
I did a harddrive diagnostic test quick and extended and found no errors.
Click to expand...


Anaka:
As to your latest post, I take it you performed the "harddrive diagnostic
test" with the WD diagnostic utility, yes?

3. It's puzzling to me how or why you used a DOS boot floppy disk in this
process. I really don't understand your comment that you "inserted it and
let it run." Are you saying, in effect, that you used the boot floppy disk
to delete the partition(s) on your HDD? There was really no need to do this
since the process (partitioning & formatting the HDD) can (and should) be
undertaken using your XP installation CD during the installation of the OS.
But no matter - I wouldn't think that would have any bearing on your
problem.

4. It's unclear to me why you needed .NET 2.0 re the installation of your
video/graphic card drivers. I wonder if that has any bearing on your
problem. Might be a good idea to reinstall the drivers. What's the graphics
card you're using? Presumably an ATI or NVIDIA-based card, yes? And you
downloaded/installed the driver from either the ATI or NVIDIA site, right?

Based on all the information you provided, especially that this problem
never existed prior to the time you fresh installed the OS and installed the
drivers & updates, it would seem reasonable to conclude that the problem is
not hardware-based. Assuming that is so, I realize there's little motivation
for you to undertake another fresh install of the OS since it would involve
another round of driver installs and OS updates, etc. But it remains an
option.

The other option it would seem to me would be for you to undertake a Repair
install of the OS using your XP installation CD. That process wouldn't be
too terribly time-consuming since it would pick up your installed drivers
and existing programs & data. But you would have to re:install all the
Critical Updates again and that's a tedious process of course. (I'm assuming
that if you did undertake a Repair install you would be doing so with an XP
installation CD that contained SP2 - you should have a "slipstreamed"
installation CD that contains SP2.)
Anna
 
Anaka

No error messages? Does that include a complete review of all reports in
the System and Application logs in Event Viewer?

Have you checked Windows Update History to check that installed
correctly? Problems recently for some users involving Net Framework
updates.

Have you cleaned up after all the changes?

Drivers? Are there any yellow question marks in Device Manager? Right
click on the My Computer icon on your Desktop and select Properties,
Hardware,Device Manager. If yes what is the Device Error code?

Try Start, Run, type "sigverif.exe" without quotes and hit OK. What
drivers are listed as unsigned? Disregard those which are not checked.

I would try HD Tune (freeware).
Download and run it and see what it turns up.
http://www.hdtune.com/

Select the Info tabs and place the cursor on the drive under Drive
letter and then double click the two page icon ( copy to Clipboard )
and copy into a further message.

Select the Health tab and then double click the two page icon ( copy
to Clipboard ) and copy into a further message. Also do a full surface
scan with HD Tune.



--

Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Event Viewer: I checked the application logs and there were a few errors and
more warnings. In the system logs their were a number of errors only on
ati3mtag. Seeing the ati does that mean ATI (my graphics card?) or is that
something different? I'm not familiar with these logs.

Windows Update History: It's fine.

Drivers: No yellow question marks. I've run a program called Driver
Detective to find any updated drivers for my computer as well and it
conflicts with the drivers my motherboard gives me. I don't know if I trust
the program.

Cleaned up after all the changes?: I don't understand this question.

sigverif.exe: The following came up not signed:
mxdwdrv.dll
mxdwdui.dll
mxdwdui.gpd
mxdwdui.ini
stddtype.gdl
stdschem.gdl
stdschmx.gdl
unidrv.dll
unidrvui.dll
unires.dll

HD Tune:
HD Tune: WDC WD800JB-00ETA0 Information

Firmware version : 77.07W77
Serial number : WD-WMAHL1248571
Capacity : 74.5 GB (~80.0 GB)
Buffer size : 8192 KB
Standard : ATA/ATAPI-6
Supported mode : UDMA Mode 5 (Ultra ATA/100)
Current mode : UDMA Mode 5 (Ultra ATA/100)

S.M.A.R.T : yes
48-bit Address : yes
Read Look-Ahead : yes
Write Cache : yes
Host Protected Area : yes
Device Configuration Overlay : yes
Automatic Acoustic Management: yes
Power Management : yes
Advanced Power Management : no
Power-up in Standby : no
Security Mode : yes
Firmware Upgradable : yes

Partition : 1
Drive letter : C:\
Label :
Capacity : 76308 MB
Usage : 26.00%
Type : NTFS
Bootable : Yes

HD Tune: WDC WD800JB-00ETA0 Health

ID Current Worst ThresholdData Status
(01) Raw Read Error Rate 200 197 51 0 Ok
(03) Spin Up Time 90 87 21 2008 Ok
(04) Start/Stop Count 100 100 40 710 Ok
(05) Reallocated Sector Count 200 200 140 0 Ok
(07) Seek Error Rate 200 200 51 0 Ok
(09) Power On Hours Count 58 58 0 31142 Ok
(0A) Spin Retry Count 100 99 51 0 Ok
(0B) Calibration Retry Count 100 100 51 2 Ok
(0C) Power Cycle Count 100 100 0 680 Ok
(C2) Temperature 110 253 0 33 Ok
(C4) Reallocated Event Count 200 200 0 0 Ok
(C5) Current Pending Sector 200 200 0 0 Ok
(C6) Offline Uncorrectable 200 200 0 0 Ok
(C7) Ultra DMA CRC Error Count 200 253 0 0 Ok
(C8) Write Error Rate 200 85 51 0 Ok

Power On Time : 31142
Health Status : Ok

HD Tune: WDC WD800JB-00ETA0 Error Scan

Scanned data : 76288 MB
Damaged Blocks : 0.0 %
Elapsed Time : 31:03

High Heat: In the process of doing the error scan the temperature on HD Tune
started at 29C and went up to 51C/123F. I believe anything over 120F is hot?
However, if the computer was overheating why would it be overheating now that
I did a reformat and not before hand when the computer had more programs and
worse cache? Plus, why, if it was overheating, would it be freezing instead
of shutting down? Normally, when a computer overheats it shuts down for
safety not freeze and continue to run. (These are just a few thoughts.)
 
"with the WD diagnostic utility, yes?" - Yes and with HD Tune

3. I use the boot disk to check through fdisk to make sure everything looks
ok. After doing this once you put in an OS CD the blue setup screen
automatically appears. I use the OS CD to delete the partitions not fdisk.

4. It is also unclear to me as well. I have an ATI Radeon 9600. I went to
their site and downloaded the lately drivers from them with Catalyst Control
Center so I can optimize the GPU for whatever rendering I'm using or working
with at the time. When I attempted to install this after I did a reformat
without SP2 an error box came up saying I needed .NET 2.0. I believe it just
needed it to use the install software it has not because of the drivers
themselves.

I do not have an OS CD with SP2. I bought my copy of XP home long before SP2
came out. If I were to attempt a repair on the OS it would be unable to find
files and probably crash my system to the extent of not being about to boot
it even in safe mode. I would rather attempt a fresh reformat than a repair
at this point. I do not believe it is a problem with the OS. I haven't
recieve any errors from the OS during boot or when using the OS that say
anything about corrupt system files or etc. I know XP will try to fix any OS
issues on boot or won't boot when their is critical problems with it. I
haven't seen any of this.
 
Anaka said:
"with the WD diagnostic utility, yes?" - Yes and with HD Tune

3. I use the boot disk to check through fdisk to make sure everything
looks
ok. After doing this once you put in an OS CD the blue setup screen
automatically appears. I use the OS CD to delete the partitions not fdisk.

4. It is also unclear to me as well. I have an ATI Radeon 9600. I went to
their site and downloaded the lately drivers from them with Catalyst
Control
Center so I can optimize the GPU for whatever rendering I'm using or
working
with at the time. When I attempted to install this after I did a reformat
without SP2 an error box came up saying I needed .NET 2.0. I believe it
just
needed it to use the install software it has not because of the drivers
themselves.

I do not have an OS CD with SP2. I bought my copy of XP home long before
SP2
came out. If I were to attempt a repair on the OS it would be unable to
find
files and probably crash my system to the extent of not being about to
boot
it even in safe mode. I would rather attempt a fresh reformat than a
repair
at this point. I do not believe it is a problem with the OS. I haven't
recieve any errors from the OS during boot or when using the OS that say
anything about corrupt system files or etc. I know XP will try to fix any
OS
issues on boot or won't boot when their is critical problems with it. I
haven't seen any of this.
Click to expand...


With respect to using a DOS floppy disk "to make sure everything looks ok"
is really unnecessary under ordinary circumstances in an XP environment. But
there's no harm in using the FDISK command if all you're using it for is HDD
partition information.

It *really* would be best if SP2 was installed onto the XP OS prior to
installing the video/graphics driver. You probably should be working with a
slipstreamed XP installation CD that contains SP2. It's relatively simple to
create using a program like Autostreamer. So do a Google search on this if
you're not familiar with this (free) program.

So it might be worth a try to reinstall the graphics driver following the
installation of SP2 onto your OS.

Other than that, I really don't have any more suggestions other than what I
previously posted.
Anna
 
Yea, I didn't install the graphics drivers until SP2 was updated onto my
desktop via Windows Update.
 
Anaka

The error is linked to your graphics card. What is the make and model of
your graphics card? Don't forget you can roll back as well as update
drivers.

When you provide Event Viewer Reports it helps to provide a complete
report using the copy and paste tip I provided in my last post.

Cleaning up = Try running Disk CleanUp in all user profiles.

Select Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp to
Empty your Recycle Bin and Remove Temporary Internet Files. Also
select Start, All Programs, accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp,
More Options, System Restore and remove all but the latest System
Restore point. Run Disk Defragmenter.

The list of unsigned drivers all seem to be linked to an XPS
Printer.Problems seem to arise with in Vista but there are no clear
reports of problems when using Windows XP. Do you use your printer to
print documents in Asian languages?

Overheating would cause freezing. Are all your fans working? Dust
bunnies an also cause over heating.
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Hardware_Tshoot

--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Graphics Card: I have a ATI Radeon 9600 series. I downloaded the latest
drivers from here. http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/xp/radeonx-xp.html I
searched on google and found that people with Catalyst 7.7 have been
recieving this atimtag error in their event viewer. I guess I'll try
uninstalling the driver and reinstalling just the display driver. It does
seem like everytime my computer freezes I get this atimtag CRT error saying
"CRT invalid display type".

Clean Up: I'll do a Disk CleanUp and Disk Defrag. I've cleaned up temps.

Printer: I haven't used a printer at all on this computer. I did have one
connected via USB but I never installed the drivers or used it. It currently
is not connected as well.

Overheating: The last few times my computer has froze the temperature has
only been 35C which isn't very hot. I don't think the 2 make a connection.

Yesterday, was a bit strange. I had one freeze in the morning about 30
minutes after starting it up. After running all the tests it didn't freeze at
all for hours. I thought the probably mysteriously disappeared. I was able to
install Visual Studio (which is a good 2 hours) without any problems at all.
Later that night I decided to transfer some files over from my laptop through
the network on share documents. After a few minutes of copying my desktop
froze.

This morning I tried powering on my desktop and it wouldn't turn on. I
started to think my power supply went out. I shut it down fine last night. I
decided to check the coord and I exchanged the power coord and it was able to
power up just fine. I read somewhere when your computer freezes it could be a
problem with your power supply. Maybe it fried my power coord? I have no
idea. It's just really strange.
 
Anaka

There are some known unresolved issues with Catalyst 7.7 with Windows
XP.
http://www2.ati.com/relnotes/catalyst_77_release_notes.html#197309

Have you tried removing the computer case side panel and removing the
dust? Ideally you need an Air Duster which contains compressed to remove
the dust. You might be surprised at the amount of dust inside. Also make
sure you can hear / see that the fans are working. Working fans are very
important for the well being of your computer. If one fails it can
result in a fried motherboard, which is infinitely more expensive to
replace than a fan. An Air Duster is also useful for cleaning out food
crumbs trapped in keyboards.

--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
I don't see anything relating to a Raedon 9600 with Catalyst 7.7 or anything
about computer freezes. I've uninstalled these drivers and reinstalled just
the display driver and there is still a problem with freezes.

I have already cleaned out dust when I went to exchange out memory and check
if that was the problem. I've checked that all fans are properlly working at
that time too.
 
I installed the 7.6 display drivers and no longer get this atimtag error when
my computer freezes. I also noticed that this error is being sent upon force
reboot not when the freeze initially occurs. I think the error is because my
computer is force rebooted not because of the freeze itself. It's probably
upset about something in the driver not being shut down properly.

I attempted a Disk Clean and it froze on me.

Thank you for all your help thus far.
 
Anaka

The problem you have with the graphics card is not unique to you. I saw
another thread a couple of days ago throwing up a similar error report.

What exactly do you mean by a forced reboot?

What do you mean by Disk CleanUp freezing. The assessing by DiskCleanUp
of how much space it can gain does take quite a while. It the saving
from compressing old files that does this. You just have to be patient
with it. If freezing is happening later then there is a different
problem.

You can use cCleaner (freeware) which does a more thorough job.
http://www.ccleaner.com/ccdownload.asp
http://www.ccleaner.com/

With any cleaner you need to proceed with caution. To be safe you
should create a restore point before using cCleaner. cCleaner also
offers backup before removal.

When using cCleaner think twice before checking Autocomplete Form
History under Internet Explorer. You do get a warning but this one has
irritating consequences. You may need to restore your system's
recollection of passwords after use so keep a record off computer so
that they can easily be re-entered.

Leave the Scan for Issues option alone.

When you removed RAM memory did you do this stick by stick so that you
could identify which stick, if any might be faulty?

--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
When I say it froze when doing a disk clean up I mean the computer froze. I'm
aware that its deleting unused files. The computer stopped responding. The
mouse stopped moving. No alt tab, no windows, no ctrl alt del, no movement,
no pixelation, no bsod, no white or any of color screen. The problem the
computer is having. Not my impatience of waiting on it doing its job.

I don't understand how cleaning my computer will help at all. This computer
was just reformatted completely clean. Thats the best clean it can have. It
shouldn't have any need for defrag or disk cleanup. You can't move the OS
files anyways and that and the drivers are the only thing on it.

Force reboot means manually pushing the reboot button on my computer.

I tested all the memory.
 
Anaka

You should only use the Reset button ( you call it a Reboot button ) as
a last resort. You will get problems if you do this regularly. When you
press the reset button it should automatically run chkdsk as part of the
restart process. Is it doing this and do you allow it to be complete?

Whenever you reinstals Windows XP or make significant changes it is
highly desirable to run Disk CleanUp and then Disk Defragmenter so
temporary detritus left over from the installation / changes are removed
and fragmented files defragmented. If you cannot get Disk CleanUp to
work then cCleaner is a good alternative. Running Disk CleanUp before
running chkdsk can also help chkdsk because some temporary files can
cause that utility problems.

Do you your freezes coincide with you using any particular programmes?

Is your mouse and keyboard wired or wireless?


--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
I only use the reset button when I have to. My computer will not respond and
will not come back. The OS has at this point shut down. A program isn't
hanging causing it to be frozen. When I say frozen it's frozen for good. I
think you might have missed my first few posts where I explained the problem
I'm having with my PC. The only way to get it to respond is to restart it. I
could pull the plug but the reset button would be the best thing I could
possibly do at this point.

And no it does does run chkdsk automatically after I push the reset button
and restart it.

No my keyboard and mouse are not wireless. They aren't out of batteries and
stop responding. The computer stopped responding not them. You cannot Alt tab
through windows/programs. You cannot hit the windows key and see the windows
menu on your task bar come up. You cannot hit Windows Key + D and see your
desktop. You cannot hit ctrl alt del and see the task manager. The computer
is not frozen due to an application hang.

It does not freeze due to any programs. It will freeze on the logon screen.
It will freeze when logging on. It will freeze when startup programs are
going. It will freeze a couple minutes later. It will freeze a couple hours
later. It will freeze at completely random times. It will freeze with no
programs running. It will freeze when you leave the computer and come back
with nothing running no work on the computer what so ever, no screen saver,
no log on screen after 20 minutes.
 
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