compatible cartidges

  • Thread starter Thread starter herbzee
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herbzee

Anybody with experience using Canon cartidges from "Alotofthings";
Does it affect the warrantee for the i960? I seemed to have screwed up
an HP using refills.
 
I use them and then refill them with bulk ink from alotofthings. No problems
whatsoever. The use of refills or third party supplies will not invalidate
the warranty. BCI-6 cartridges are much easier to refill than any other
tanks that I'm aware of.
 
Ron said:
I use them and then refill them with bulk ink from alotofthings. No problems
whatsoever. The use of refills or third party supplies will not invalidate
the warranty. BCI-6 cartridges are much easier to refill than any other
tanks that I'm aware of.

I think you may be mistaken.I'm guessing that refilling your cartridge
yourself, or using a 3rd party ink cartridges qualify as the use of
non-Canon supplies. Do you have information to the contrary?

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/co...Act&keycode=2113&fcategoryid=232&modelid=9388

"This limited warranty covers all defects encountered in normal use of
the Product and does not apply in the following cases:

(b) Use of parts or supplies (other than those sold by Canon USA) that
cause damage to the Product or cause abnormally frequent service calls
or service problems."
 
Read the warranty text you pasted below. It says damage caused by using
non-OEM parts or supplies, not simply the use of non-Canon supplies. Using
quality third party ink and/or cartridges has not been shown to cause damage
or failures and it would have to be proven that the use of the supplies was
the cause of failure. Also do a search for "Magnusson-Moss Warranty-Federal
Commission Improvement Act" – Subparagraph C, section 101) which
specifically addresses this point. It states that users are NOT required to
utilize parts and supplies furnished by the original manufacturer, to
maintain their warranty.

Despite the provisions of warranties and federal rules, the simple fact
remains that the cost savings of using third party supplies and especially
bulk ink for refilling is so great that after two or three refills the
entire cost of the refilling supplies and the initial purchase cost of most
printers has been recouped.

Do you have any information that shows refilling (done correctly, which is
easy) has been a source of damage to the printers?
 
tomcas said:
"This limited warranty covers all defects encountered in normal use of
the Product and does not apply in the following cases:

(b) Use of parts or supplies (other than those sold by Canon USA) that
cause damage to the Product or cause abnormally frequent service calls
or service problems."

And that only applies to damage from parts or supplies that do not
physically fit or comply with the design of the printer. Third party ink
does not damage the printer and does not invalidate the warranty.

Canon (and the others) word it so it sounds intimidating, but it's not
an accurate interpretation of the warranty. There are consumer
protection laws that prevent Canon from forcing us to use their
consumable products. But there are no laws to stop Canon from writing
warranties that invoke a feeling of fear by using non-Canon supplies.

Don't be mad at Canon...every manufacturer does it.

When you buy a Chevy truck, they will VERY strongly suggest using only
Chevy oil, filters, and other parts, even suggesting that using others
may void the warranty. How often do you see commercials that promote
their own products? But that's just to get you to buy their overpriced
and high profit margin consumables.

Don't be intimidated and manipulated...you can freely use whatever
consumables you wish.
 
Ron said:
Read the warranty text you pasted below. It says damage caused by using
non-OEM parts or supplies,

You would not be requesting a warranty repair if something was not
damaged. Naturally, the manufacturer will claim this was the cause of
damage. Google some past postings and you will find this to be true.

not simply the use of non-Canon supplies. Using
quality third party ink and/or cartridges has not been shown to cause damage
or failures and it would have to be proven that the use of the supplies was
the cause of failure.

This has been the subject of much debate. This is gray area with experts
on both sides of the argument. You can see from my past postings that I
am forever encouraging people to refill their own cartridges or to
purchase refilled ones, and I could not agree more. However, The only
thing that matters is the fine print. This is why I posted a response to
your claim. I hate to see someone loose their warranty repair coverage
because I believe your post is misleading and inaccurate.

Also do a search for "Magnusson-Moss Warranty-Federal
Commission Improvement Act" – Subparagraph C, section 101) which
specifically addresses this point. It states that users are NOT required to
utilize parts and supplies furnished by the original manufacturer, to
maintain their warranty.

No need to search, I have discussed it at length in detail in past
newsgroups.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm
What is says in a nut shell is that "tied in sales" and service are
prohibited in limiting warranty coverage UNLESS the sneaky bastards have
applied for and received a waiver from the FTC.
Which is exactly what they have done.
Despite the provisions of warranties and federal rules, the simple fact
remains that the cost savings of using third party supplies and especially
bulk ink for refilling is so great that after two or three refills the
entire cost of the refilling supplies and the initial purchase cost of most
printers has been recouped.

Again, I could not agree more. In fact, I have been posting this exact
same reasoning on this group for over 4 years.
Do you have any information that shows refilling (done correctly, which is
easy) has been a source of damage to the printers?

No, but you can rest assured that Canon, Epson, and HP do.
And you won't find it until they are sued for non- coverage, which few
individual are willing to do because of the cost.
Do you have any information that these manufacturers will not deny a
repair under warranty when the find non OEM products?
 
Bill said:
tomcas wrote:




And that only applies to damage from parts or supplies that do not
physically fit or comply with the design of the printer. Third party ink
does not damage the printer and does not invalidate the warranty.
I agree is does not damage the printer, but where have you read it would
not invalidate the warranty?
Canon (and the others) word it so it sounds intimidating, but it's not
an accurate interpretation of the warranty. There are consumer
protection laws that prevent Canon from forcing us to use their
consumable products. But there are no laws to stop Canon from writing
warranties that invoke a feeling of fear by using non-Canon supplies.

Don't be mad at Canon...every manufacturer does it.
I'm not mad a Canon and I agree 100%. I am only trying to prevent some
poor bastard from getting his warranty repair coverage denied because of
misinformation on the part of the previous post.
When you buy a Chevy truck, they will VERY strongly suggest using only
Chevy oil, filters, and other parts, even suggesting that using others
may void the warranty. How often do you see commercials that promote
their own products? But that's just to get you to buy their overpriced
and high profit margin consumables.

Don't be intimidated and manipulated...you can freely use whatever
consumables you wish.
If would be wise to read the fine print.
 
The warranty is very carefully crafted.

"This limited warranty covers all defects encountered in normal use of
the Product and does not apply in the following cases:

(b) Use of parts or supplies (other than those sold by Canon USA) that
cause damage to the Product or cause abnormally frequent service calls
or service problems."

The operative words here are: "that cause damage or cause abnormally
frequent service calls or service problems"

If indeed an ink formulation, and rightfully so, causes those things
mentioned above, then Canon will not warrant repairs that can be
attributed to there use. They are legally in their right to do so.

HOWEVER, and this is a big one (that's why it's big... in CAPS ;-))
there is something called the Sherman Anti Trust Act in the US. It is a
law that basically made it illegal to "tie" product sales together of
differing goods. It was principally done to stop companies from
requiring the use of their own branded consumables to get a certain
pricing or to keep a warranty valid.

Most countries have similar acts.

The auto industry was notorious for requiring you use their parts (spark
plug cables, air, oil, fuel filters, etc.) when having the car serviced,
or the warranty would be voided. Indirectly, this allowed for price
control and was considered anti competition, because it wouldn't allow
for third party companies to produce competitively priced spare parts
and consumables, basically creating a monopolistic condition.

What the law did was make it illegal to require certain brands of goods
be used to protect a warranty or pricing structure. To protect
themselves from being left with the liability of a warranty when someone
used very inferior consumables and spares which might create down-line
damage, some industries have developed standards associations, which
test parts to make sure they meet minimal standards. In the auto
industry, standards exist for gasoline, oil, and many other fluids and
lubricants, as well as certain parts through ANSI, UL, CSA, DOT, ISO,
IEEE and other groups which are either government or independently run
and financed through fees charged to each member.

Unfortunately, inkjet printer ink doesn't have a standards group yet. As
a result, the manufacturers try to walk a fine line between trying to
protect the liability they can have to sub-standard product being used
and damaging things like heads to which they may be held responsible for
repairing or replacing, and not violating trust acts of various countries.

Where things get sneaky, and in my opinion, skirt the law, are when
manufacturers integrate technologies under the guise of some function
when they have obvious other uses which thwart the trust acts.

For instance, if you were to ask Epson why their cartridges use a chip
to keep track of approximate ink remaining, they will probably tell you
it is because they instituted a new cartridge that allows for it to be
removed and replaced at a later date. This feature allows you to start
printing unattended with a set of brand new cartridges, and yet, at a
later time return to the ones that only had 20% of their ink left, when
you are doing a smaller job. In order to do this, the cartridges,
rather than the printer or software in the computer needed to travel
with the ink remainder information, so a chip was installed that could
be read when the cartridges was reinstalled in the printer to tell it
about how much ink was in that specific cartridge. And, the reason this
was so critical, is because Epson printers otherwise have difficulty
reestablishing ink flow if the cartridge runs out of ink, and either
dried the head passages or gets an air lock. Epson will probably also
tell you that the reason their newest ink cartridges are made so
difficult to refill isn't to prevent you from using someone elses ink,
no, but because the newer inks need to be protected from oxidation, so
the 18 or so chambers in the cartridge, air/liquid exchange membrane,
assorted pressure and one way valves, are all designed to minimize the
air/ink surface area.

So, which is true? I'll leave you to decide. Maybe both... but these
are the arguments that may need to be answered in the courts. Inkjet
companies use a variety of methods to "protect" their printers and their
revenues, and some challenges have been successful (usually by third
party companies), sometimes, having to protect their own right to
manufacture spare parts, win in court and sometimes lose.

So, might Canon refuse to fix your printer is you used a 3rd party ink?
If the ink has nothing to do with the service failure (say the motor
for the paper transport), they are violating the law in most cases.
However, if they have been able to prove that 3rd party inks ruin their
print heads, they may indeed have a valid argument. Will that stake
their claim as a result? That depends. Proving the damage was caused
by a 3rd party product may be difficult or costly. Client might be
lost, even if the damage claim is true. It may encourage court action,
which the manufacturer may not wish to start.

From what I have seen in the industry, it is rare the manufacturer will
dig in its heels and refuse a warranty period repair unless there is
obvious damage due to use of a consumable. For instance if they found
indications you were printing on carpet squares, they may just decide to
send you your printer back with a bill after they repaired it.

Art
 
I know of several incidents when Epson received printers with 3rd party
ink cartridges installed, and repaired the printer and returned it with
Epson OEM installed.

I have no idea if this is typical, or old news and different now.

Art
 
(b) Use of parts or supplies (other than those sold by Canon USA)
The operative words here are: "that cause damage or cause abnormally
frequent service calls or service problems"

If indeed an ink formulation, and rightfully so, causes those things
mentioned above, then Canon will not warrant repairs that can be
attributed to there use. They are legally in their right to do so.

Regardless of the legal issues involved it makes no sense at all to use
OEM inks on my R200 printer. According to Epson's pricing, my printer
has a negative value of about -$20, The replacement OEM inks cost more
than the printer and inks together. If one is insists on OEM inks then
the best thing is just to throw out your printer whenever it runs out of
ink. That's pretty nuts so I am basically forced to use non-Epson inks
if I don't want to throw away my printer when it runs out of ink.

Wayne
 
Yes, a sad commentary on the business model being used today in inkjet
printers (and many other technologies as well). I hope eventually they
will get the message.

Art
 
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