Compact A3 duplex? - size matters!

[jambers2k]

looking for an A3 printer to print online daily newspapers, must be
duplex, and i need to store it in a cupboard whose dimensions are
400mm wide x 500mm high x 570mm deep (15.75in wide x 19.68in high x
22.45in deep) - when it's in the cupboard, it won't be in use, so it
can sit on it's side or back if required, i'll be bringing it out each
morning and setting it on a table to start the printing....

Cost isn't really an issue, availability of consumables will be a
consideration.

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

looking for an A3 printer to print online daily newspapers, must be
duplex, and i need to store it in a cupboard whose dimensions are
400mm wide x 500mm high x 570mm deep (15.75in wide x 19.68in high x
22.45in deep) - when it's in the cupboard, it won't be in use, so it
can sit on it's side or back if required, i'll be bringing it out each
morning and setting it on a table to start the printing....

Cost isn't really an issue, availability of consumables will be a
consideration.

I'd consider wireless above and behind these other things. Why move
the printer if you can leave the printer and move the paper. With a
front feed you could go for something like a closet. If you go for
that type of solution, I'd likely go with the HP Officejet Pro
series. They sport networking and duplex. They are a good value.
Duplex is not a popular option for inkjet a3+.

I listed some options, but then checked their sizes and found they
were all beyond 24 inches wide.

-----

If you are willing to ditch the duplex, there is the Epson 1400.
It's a dye based printer. There is no duplex feature.
24.2in w 12.4xd x 8.8" high.

I don't know if this model is in the states, but there is the Canon
ix3000/ix4000.
601 x 317.6 x 193.2mm

The HP K8600dn might be more your bag. Networking on board, and
duplex is standard on this model.
K8600: 24 x 16.54 x 8.78 in
K8600dn: 24 x 19.7 x 8.78 in

All of these units are a3+ models (13 inch), and once you add the
printer into the equation the width is beyond your depth. An a3
printer (11inch) "might" fit your needs. These seem to be pretty
rare. There are lasers like the Epson EPL N2550. But that's 513 x
400 x 325mm. It's been years since I've seen an a3 inkjet, all the
new models are a3+, where those extra 2 inches seems to push the
printer just out of your size range.

If you're using an Inkjet, you can't sit it on it's side or it's
back. I wouldn't do that with a laser either though I'm sure I have
in the past.

 

[jambers2k]

I'd consider wireless above and behind these other things.  Why move
the printer if you can leave the printer and move the paper.  With a
front feed you could go for something like a closet.  If you go for
that type of solution, I'd likely go with the HP Officejet Pro
series.  They sport networking and duplex.  They are a good value.
Duplex is not a popular option for inkjet a3+.

I listed some options, but then checked their sizes and found they
were all beyond 24 inches wide.

-----

If you are willing to ditch the duplex, there is the Epson 1400.
It's  a dye based printer.  There is no duplex feature.
24.2in w 12.4xd x 8.8" high.

I don't know if this model is in the states, but there is the Canon
ix3000/ix4000.
601 x 317.6 x 193.2mm

The HP K8600dn might be more your bag.   Networking on board, and
duplex is standard on this model.
K8600: 24 x 16.54 x 8.78 in
K8600dn: 24 x 19.7 x 8.78 in

All of these units are a3+ models (13 inch), and once you add the
printer into the equation the width is beyond your depth.  An a3
printer (11inch) "might" fit your needs.  These seem to be pretty
rare.  There are lasers like the Epson EPL N2550.  But that's 513 x
400 x 325mm.  It's been years since I've seen an a3 inkjet, all the
new models are a3+, where those extra 2 inches seems to push the
printer just out of your size range.

If you're using an Inkjet, you can't sit it on it's side or it's
back.  I wouldn't do that with a laser either though I'm sure I have
in the past.

IEP, thanks for your reply, I have looked at the first couple of
options, I'll look more tonight when I get home. Good point about the
wireless, I will be using it on a Wireless network for sure, but not
inside the cupboard where the printer will be permanently 'stored',
the cupboard is the only place i have to keep it (it's on a boat, so
storage is limited!). I'll check out the inkjets, it will be high
volume as i'll be printing newspapers, so I'd just have to carry
plenty of black ink carts. I'm rapidly getting closer to admitting
that a laser/LED is simply too big to fit in the cupboard....

Any more suggestions will be warmly met...
Thanks, Jamie.

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

IEP, thanks for your reply, I have looked at the first couple of
options, I'll look more tonight when I get home. Good point about the
wireless, I will be using it on a Wireless network for sure, but not
inside the cupboard where the printer will be permanently 'stored',
the cupboard is the only place i have to keep it (it's on a boat, so
storage is limited!). I'll check out the inkjets, it will be high
volume as i'll be printing newspapers, so I'd just have to carry
plenty of black ink carts. I'm rapidly getting closer to admitting
that a laser/LED is simply too big to fit in the cupboard....

Any more suggestions will be warmly met...
Thanks, Jamie.

Before I go into a lengthy reply, I checked the size of the Epson EX,
which is the only a3 printer I can think of that isn't a3+, and it
would fit into your requirements. The older Canon i9100 is the only
a3+ that I know about that comes close to your width requirements.
It's too large by about .05 inches.


I'm empathetic to your space considerations, but the simple fact is
you shouldn't store an inkjet on it's side, not unless you want a
mess. The cartridges have vent holes and without a doubt would leak,
as well as the waste ink which will leak. Here are the options as I
see them

1) Older a3 printer, not a3+
2) Build a new cupboard or alternative location
3) Store the printer on the deck in a water tight box, shore side, or
make an arrangement with the marinara.
4) void the warranty and trim off surplus plastic

[1 - Older a3 printer]
Difficult to find. I would not recommend the Epson EX as it's far too
slow for personal use let alone a daily newspaper.
Epson EX Folded up - 546x275x172mm
Epson EX unfoled - 546x788x352mm
Your cubbyhole
400x570x500mm

While this printer is not for you, clearly an a3 model can fit into
your size requirement.

[2 - Alternative location]
You might be able to create a new cubbyhole. I don't know your
layout but possible locations
1) Wheel house
2) Intruding in the head, extruding into the cabin.
3) Between the wheel house and the cabin, overhead, remove to change
cartridges.
4) If you have a fixed table (I know not likely) a cubbyhole under
the table, dead center with under the table access, or an overhead
drawer.
5) Into the engine room. This presumes you have an engine.
6) Plastic bag in the bilge.

[3 - Outside the boat]
Most practical would be making a deal with the marina. It's likely
they would be more than happy to work out a deal using your printer if
your printer costs less to operate than theirs.

[4 - void the warranty]
You might be able to save like a 1/2 inch on some models ditching some
of the plastic,

-----
[further thoughts]

For an a3+ model, you need about 610mm (24in) of width. An A3 model
about 560 (22in). That's just a guide, the older Canon i9900 (a3+)
requires only 22.7in of width. The older i9100 (a3+) 22.5in. This is
the best I can come up with.

The models that are not as deep don't offer duplex so if space is
truly a premium, ditch auto-duplex.

What you want is possible in a3, but I don't know enough models that
are a3 rather than a3+.

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

I may have to consider shaving off some millimeters

from the casing, possibility that i could move the back of
the cupboard out towards the boat's hull by a bit, this
would open up the A3+ options

If that's possible , great.

leaking ink was a concern I wasn't sure about, hadn't
considered the waste ink into the bargain!

Epsons use a pump to pump the waste ink into the diaper. You can use
an external tube and put the waste ink into a jar. If at all
possible, I still wouldn't store it on it's side.

as you point out below, older printer probably wouldn't
perform to print newspapers on duplex in any timely
manner, that said, i'm not even sure how slow duplex
really is as i've never printed double sided

Duplex on inkjet really provides a performance hit. If possible,
manual duplex.

Given you're main application is text, I would not be super concerned
about the speed of many older units.

none of these are an option, it's a high performance
modern yacht, so storage is already at a minimum, and
the printer would never make an
acceptable 'display piece'!

It's hard to grasp the exact situation from the description. My only
boat experience is something made from wood, and any modification
meant ordering mahogany from Singapore and using a matching stain.
When I think modern, I think fiberglass and paint, something that
doesn't require matching. But given the choice, I'd rather use
fiberglass on a $1000 printer than a yacht.

HP Officejet K7100 Color Printer series (CB041B)
This looks like the only option from HP. One question
would be about the optional duplexer, does anyone
have any experience with this, is it easily detached, or > what are the resultant dimensions with eveything
closed and the duplexer still attached? How slow is A3
duplex printing? I would be printing on plain paper at a > setting something like 'fast normal' or half way between
draft and standard output?

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/fastFaqLiteDocument?lc=nl&dlc=nl&cc=nl&docname=c01119596

Ok, I think this differs from the officejet pro series in the fact
that they use the desktop size cartridges. Not so good for your
bottom line, but in your case you want a reduction of as much width as
possible. Integrated print heads on the cartridge would be beneficial
IMHO in this case.

This printer gets points over the canon i9100 in the fact that it has
a dedicated text cartridge. Canon only has the ix3000/ix4000/ix5000
and these are recent editions to their lineup. AFAIK their older a3+
units are photo printers. They'll do text well enough, but without a
doubt not as well.

The duplex unit looks like it just snaps in.

It is likely that I will be downloading newspapers
overnight via 3G or broadband Sat comm, or if i'm lucky
to be range on WiFi, then printing 2 or 3 of 60-100
page newspapers, most likely in B&W, but occasionally
in colour if required from our guests! Am i dreaming to
get this performance from a duplex inkjet, or will it take
an age to print??

I don't have accurate figures on this model, but presuming 20ppm a4,
we can presume 10ppm a3. It'll actually be faster but this is just an
estimate, and another 50% reduction for duplex presuming no slowdown,
so 5ppm. 100 pages @ 5ppm would take 20min. This is just an estimate
but think 1/2 hour to do a given print job of 100 pages a3.

I hate to say it, but tablet PCs or laptops would likely be more
practical.




















http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/fastFaqLiteDocument?lc=nl&dlc=nl&cc=nl&docname=c01119596

 

[jambers2k]

Epsons use a pump to pump the waste ink into the diaper.  You can use
an external tube and put the waste ink into a jar.  If at all
possible, I still wouldn't store it on it's side.

reckon i'll be storing it the right way up to avoid any issues

Duplex on inkjet really provides a performance hit.  If possible,
manual duplex.

yeah, manual duplex would be the go, it would depend on if the
software (print driver) offers an easy 'print even' or 'print odd'
pages, because choosing to print '1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,.....' and so on
for 2 or 3 60 page newspapers would be a tedious after a couple of
mornings!

It's hard to grasp the exact situation from the description.  My only
boat experience is something made from wood, and any modification
meant ordering mahogany from Singapore and using a matching stain.
When I think modern, I think fiberglass and paint, something that
doesn't require matching.  But given the choice, I'd rather use
fiberglass on a $1000 printer than a yacht.

<http://www.wally.com/jumpCh.asp?
idUser=0&idChannel=38&idLang=IT&idProd=65>
'cept change the german flag for a british one, as the owner has
changed

I don't have accurate figures on this model, but presuming 20ppm a4,
we can presume 10ppm a3.  It'll actually be faster but this is just an
estimate, and another 50% reduction for duplex presuming no slowdown,
so 5ppm.  100 pages @ 5ppm would take 20min.  This is just an estimate
but think 1/2 hour to do a given print job of 100 pages a3.

that doesn't sound terrible, will need to look into manually
duplex'ing

I hate to say it, but tablet PCs or laptops would likely be more
practical.

Absolutely, especially as there are many online newspaper sites
offering proper newspapers, and not just the online version. for
example:
<http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx>

Jambers

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

yeah, manual duplex would be the go, it would depend on if the
software (print driver) offers an easy 'print even' or 'print odd'
pages, because choosing to print '1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,.....' and so on
for 2 or 3 60 page newspapers would be a tedious after a couple of
mornings!

1,3,5...99
2,4,6...100

I'll grant you it's tedious, but not as tedious as all that. If
you're printing PDFs then the driver will have the option for odds and
evens. It's pretty much a non issue.

<http://www.wally.com/jumpCh.asp?
idUser=0&idChannel=38&idLang=IT&idProd=65>
'cept change the german flag for a british one, as the owner has
changed

I like the cherry wood. Is that vinyl, ply, or solid?

If you can't find a true a3, modifying the boat is really the ideal
solution. It's not what you want to hear, and matching that cherry
would be a pain, but at the very least the boat was produced within
the past decade. You can ask them where the wood came from.

I'm looking at the layout and it looks like that navigation station is
at least 30 inches wide. Is there an issue with the cabinet? I think
navigation as a printer would be handy to get charts.

Though for space considerations, I have to revisit a PC. I'm looking
at the main saloon table. Replace table with recessed screens
oriented portrait and use laptop motherboards. This could be done in
fiberglass or ply easily enough with a reinforced steel bottom. The
height would likely be increased by 1/2 inch or so, and one would have
to get creative about the air cooling, perhaps beveled outlet and
inlets or better still that post looks like it's at least 6 inches,
motherboards and drives mounted on half pipes inside.

I say this because not only do you have the big ass printer at about
24 inches, but you want at the very least how many sheets of a3 paper
on board? 1000 if you'll be printing 100 sheets daily. That's
easily the volume of two laptops.

But so far for printers we have

a3+ Canon i9100 [no duplex AFAIK] older close fit
a3+ HP Officejet K7100 [printer meet hull]

 

[Arthur Entlich]

There is one issue with so-called "manual duplex" which can be a real
hassle, and that is the darn thing misfeeds, either adding a blank page
during the printing of the first side, or double feeding two pages on
the second side run. It unfortunately happens often enough to make for
a real headache.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

yeah, manual duplex would be the go, it would depend on if the
software (print driver) offers an easy 'print even' or 'print odd'
pages, because choosing to print '1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,.....' and so on
for 2 or 3 60 page newspapers would be a tedious after a couple of
mornings!

1,3,5...99
2,4,6...100

I'll grant you it's tedious, but not as tedious as all that. If
you're printing PDFs then the driver will have the option for odds and
evens. It's pretty much a non issue.

<http://www.wally.com/jumpCh.asp?
idUser=0&idChannel=38&idLang=IT&idProd=65>
'cept change the german flag for a british one, as the owner has
changed

I like the cherry wood. Is that vinyl, ply, or solid?

If you can't find a true a3, modifying the boat is really the ideal
solution. It's not what you want to hear, and matching that cherry
would be a pain, but at the very least the boat was produced within
the past decade. You can ask them where the wood came from.

I'm looking at the layout and it looks like that navigation station is
at least 30 inches wide. Is there an issue with the cabinet? I think
navigation as a printer would be handy to get charts.

Though for space considerations, I have to revisit a PC. I'm looking
at the main saloon table. Replace table with recessed screens
oriented portrait and use laptop motherboards. This could be done in
fiberglass or ply easily enough with a reinforced steel bottom. The
height would likely be increased by 1/2 inch or so, and one would have
to get creative about the air cooling, perhaps beveled outlet and
inlets or better still that post looks like it's at least 6 inches,
motherboards and drives mounted on half pipes inside.

I say this because not only do you have the big ass printer at about
24 inches, but you want at the very least how many sheets of a3 paper
on board? 1000 if you'll be printing 100 sheets daily. That's
easily the volume of two laptops.

But so far for printers we have

a3+ Canon i9100 [no duplex AFAIK] older close fit
a3+ HP Officejet K7100 [printer meet hull]

 

[IntergalacticExpandingPanda]

It is obvious that you can place paper in the printer so that either side
takes ink but the term manual duplex is just a marketing term that means
nothing.

It's not a conspiracy. I know the canon driver supports automatic
duplex as well as manual duplex. It says so right there. It's a
handy feature.

It's less of a marketing term and more of a term to describe the
action that is less cumbersome than saying manual flipping or printing
odds and evens.

Arthur Entlich does have a point where misfeeds are an issue with
manual duplex. On inkjet drytime and speed are an issue with auto
duplex.