Chicken or Egg Question

[Michael A.]

I have the virus/worm/trojan that among other things changes my IE
Start page. More annoying than anything.

I recently installed Norton Professional Edition 2003--it spotted the
virus/worm/trojan but said it could not repair it. I chose instead to
Quarantine it. I did another Full System scan and after Quarantine the
Scan showed No viruses on my entire system.

Problem: my damn Start Page STILL is getting changed without my
Consent (usually to a Porn Search Engine). Is this just an "incurable"
situation? I thought for sure that once I had updated DAT files and
Quarantined the "bugger" the Start Page issue would end. It has not.

Any thoughts would be appreciated and implemented!!

TY.

 

[Liam Curtis]

Hi Michael.

Out of curiosity, which page are you being directed to? I was playing with
some html from emails that were being flagged by my spam/av software and I
ended up with this horrible 'surferbar' browser hijacker--was more of a pain
to remove than most viruses Ive dealt with. It would replace the start page
right in front of my eyes in IE internet options even after i manually
switched back.

I found the solution finally at http://www.pchell.com/

Also try adaware from lavasoft or spybot or hijackthis for browser
invasions.

 

[Jan Il]

Michael A.

I have the virus/worm/trojan that among other things changes my IE
Start page. More annoying than anything.

I recently installed Norton Professional Edition 2003--it spotted the
virus/worm/trojan but said it could not repair it. I chose instead to
Quarantine it. I did another Full System scan and after Quarantine the
Scan showed No viruses on my entire system.

Problem: my damn Start Page STILL is getting changed without my
Consent (usually to a Porn Search Engine). Is this just an "incurable"
situation? I thought for sure that once I had updated DAT files and
Quarantined the "bugger" the Start Page issue would end. It has not.

Any thoughts would be appreciated and implemented!!

TY.

Just say NO to Norton! Really, Norton has some good qualities, but, it's
also known to cause more problems than it ever solves. There are a number of
Free AV's that do as good, or much better job, and don't mess around with
your system like Norton...any version. I'm not an expert, but, if you just
take a walk down the line of the posts here, you will find a wealth of
information on many very good AV's that do as good a job as Norton, and
don't cause the kind of system problems Norton does, with any OS. Just try
to concentrate on the noted website references, and research for yourself
the various programs that are recommended... ;-)

Best regards,
Jan

 

[Buffalo]

Just say NO to Norton! Really, Norton has some good qualities, but, it's
also known to cause more problems than it ever solves. There are a number of
Free AV's that do as good, or much better job, and don't mess around with
your system like Norton...any version. I'm not an expert,

Name some free antivirus programs that scores as high as Norton at finding
viruses and trojans and have the option of checking incoming and outgoing
email.
(Please don't say AVG)
Most anti-virus programs won't find 'hijackers'. Programs such as
SpywareBlaster can prevent the hijack and programs such as AdAware and
SpyBot can detect them.
Have you ever tried Norton, or are you just 'bashing' because of what you
'heard'?

 

[Buffalo]

I have the virus/worm/trojan that among other things changes my IE
Start page. More annoying than anything.

I recently installed Norton Professional Edition 2003--it spotted the
virus/worm/trojan but said it could not repair it. I chose instead to
Quarantine it. I did another Full System scan and after Quarantine the
Scan showed No viruses on my entire system.

Problem: my damn Start Page STILL is getting changed without my
Consent (usually to a Porn Search Engine). Is this just an "incurable"
situation? I thought for sure that once I had updated DAT files and
Quarantined the "bugger" the Start Page issue would end. It has not.

Any thoughts would be appreciated and implemented!!

TY.

How do spammers harvest email addresses
http://www.private.org.il/harvest.html

SPAM - Munging Your Email Address
http://members.aol.com/emailfaq/mungfaq.html
http://www.internet-tips.net/Email/SPAM_munging.htm

From a Post by PA Bear:

"Read the latest about this constantly changing hijacker:

http://www.spywareinfo.com/newsletter/archives/0903/3.php
http://www.spywareinfo.com/~merijn/cwschronicles.html

A Removal Tool: CWS Shredder
http://www.spywareinfo.com/~merijn/files/cwshredder.zip
(unzip and follow the prompts)

NB: CWS Shredder is constantly updated to reflect new variants. Get the
updated tool before each use.

So it doesn't come back, you must run HijackThis which will identify the
RunOnce entry which can then be deleted.

e.g.: O4 - HKCU\..\RunOnce: [win32] c:\program files\winsrv32.exe

Using HijackThis: http://snurl.com/1vf8

Make certain your anti-virus definitions are up-to-date and run a full
system scan frequently (always after downloading new definitions).
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)"

Hope this helps,
Buffalo

 

[Jan Il]

Hi Buff!

number


Name some free antivirus programs that scores as high as Norton at finding
viruses and trojans and have the option of checking incoming and outgoing
email.
(Please don't say AVG)
Most anti-virus programs won't find 'hijackers'. Programs such as
SpywareBlaster can prevent the hijack and programs such as AdAware and
SpyBot can detect them.
Have you ever tried Norton, or are you just 'bashing' because of what you
'heard'?

Installed it on my test PC based upon an 'experts advice' about how
efficient and fool-proof it was.....didn't stop any more junk then any of
the others......got bit by it big time when it totally trashed my system.
Actually, which AV is the best, or worst, is an on-going argument, not just
here, but, in many other ng's. And, Norton is known to present the most
problems to OS's, and very serious ones to some.

I too have SpyBot, AdAware and ZoneAlarm, and yes, I do use AVG 6.0
(yep...the Free version) on my work PC, which I update automatically.
I also periodically run a House Call or other outside program just to double
check if it's doing it's job, and I don't have any
viruses...virusi....viri...
....virum...whatevers. I let MW take care of my Swens 'n spam. So,
maybe it's just a matter of whether or not you like green eggs and ham? ;-))

Best regards,
Jan

 

[Ant]

[snip]

viruses...virusi....viri...
...virum...whatevers. I let MW take care of my Swens 'n spam. So, maybe
it's just a matter of whether or not you like green eggs and ham? ;-))

I do not like those Swens 'n spam,
I do not like them, Sam I am!

 

[Buffalo]

Hi Buff!

Installed it on my test PC based upon an 'experts advice' about how
efficient and fool-proof it was.....didn't stop any more junk then any of
the others......got bit by it big time when it totally trashed my system.
Actually, which AV is the best, or worst, is an on-going argument, not just
here, but, in many other ng's. And, Norton is known to present the most
problems to OS's, and very serious ones to some.

I too have SpyBot, AdAware and ZoneAlarm, and yes, I do use AVG 6.0
(yep...the Free version) on my work PC, which I update automatically.
I also periodically run a House Call or other outside program just to double
check if it's doing it's job, and I don't have any
viruses...virusi....viri...
...virum...whatevers. I let MW take care of my Swens 'n spam. So,
maybe it's just a matter of whether or not you like green eggs and ham? ;-))

Best regards,
Jan

I used Norton Systemworks2002 Pro for several years. The first time was on
my older system which was running Win98 with a Cel366 @ 550MHz and shortly
after I installed it, I had to uninstall it and reinstall it to correct a
problem. The only thing I have running all the time is the 'auto-protect'
feature and the mail check feature. I never had another problem with it and
it did not slow my PC down, that I could ever tell. (I am also a gamer)

I now use it on my 'newer' system; Win98SE with an Athlon xp2100+ and it
still works flawlessly with no apparent slowdowns or sluggishness.

When I install or uninstall a major program like this, I Disable the
'boot virus detection' in the BIOS first, boot into Windows and make sure my
temp files are deleted and then install with only Explorer and Systray
running on a freshly defragged disk.

Some folks probably use the 'Cleansweep' feature and/or the 'SystemDoctor'
feature full-time and that is probably where some slowdown probably happens.

I hear Norton get 'bashed' all the time, but sometimes I wonder how much of
it is 'operator failure'.
I think Norton's Speed Disk is a very quick and dependable defragger.
Their 'auto-protect' has halted my PC several times with warnings while on
the Internet.
I find no fault with their anti-virus program other than I have to pay for
it.

In an earlier post today, by Zantafio (Virus: Firewall and antivirus, trojan
scanners, .. disabled - How to ?) I bet he wishes he had the incoming and
outgoing mail protection feature of Norton. If he had, he most likely would
not have the problems he is having now.
Buffalo

 

[Jan Il]

[snip]

viruses...virusi....viri...
...virum...whatevers. I let MW take care of my Swens 'n spam. So, maybe
it's just a matter of whether or not you like green eggs and ham? ;-))

I do not like those Swens 'n spam,
I do not like them, Sam I am!

Hi there Sam! Well...I'm with you.
And I hate Trojans, Blaster, and SoBig too.

'Cause they keep changing their name,
and bodies, being nowhere near the same,
which makes finding the right filters,
a tiresome, continuous game. :-((

Seems everyone has an answer,
but, they don't always seem to work,
as the ornery 'lil bugs wanna be jerks,
and keep coming up with a whole new quirk.

Thank you Sam.
Jan, I am

 

[Jan Il]

I used Norton Systemworks2002 Pro for several years. The first time was on
my older system which was running Win98 with a Cel366 @ 550MHz and shortly
after I installed it, I had to uninstall it and reinstall it to correct a
problem. The only thing I have running all the time is the 'auto-protect'
feature and the mail check feature. I never had another problem with it and
it did not slow my PC down, that I could ever tell. (I am also a gamer)

Well... now....who am I, a mere novice, to argue with a 'gamer'.. ;-)))
My version was an older one, can't remember which one right off, as I really
try not to got there. So...you don't have the Full Monty going all the time?
Hmm...interesting....

I now use it on my 'newer' system; Win98SE with an Athlon xp2100+ and it
still works flawlessly with no apparent slowdowns or sluggishness.

2 thumbs up!

When I install or uninstall a major program like this, I Disable the
'boot virus detection' in the BIOS first, boot into Windows and make sure my
temp files are deleted and then install with only Explorer and Systray
running on a freshly defragged disk.

Some folks probably use the 'Cleansweep' feature and/or the 'SystemDoctor'
feature full-time and that is probably where some slowdown probably

happens.

I never ran the Quacker...er...Doctor. He seemed to make waaayyyy too many
house calls. Not only that, but, I had to more or less ask permission or
consult it for anything I wanted to do. Sheesh...It was like being married!
The nice difference was, I could end it by just shutting down the
computer. ;-))

I hear Norton get 'bashed' all the time, but sometimes I wonder how much of
it is 'operator failure'.

I'll give you that you may be justified in saying that some of the problems
were user error, as are many problems with other programs, but, there are
features of Norton that are not always compatible with some OS's. I'm not
out to 'bash' Norton really, just to point out that there are other programs
that really are just as good, and more 'general user' friendly, and thus,
less likely to cause problems. Ya see, you know how to do the stuff with
BIOS and other types of 'puter stuff to work with it. But, the average PC
user is not that 'puter savvy, nor most likely a 'gamer'. So, in this
respect, is it really fair to take YOUR experience and compare it to the
average, or novice user, and say, if Norton screws them up it is their
fault?

I think Norton's Speed Disk is a very quick and dependable defragger.
Their 'auto-protect' has halted my PC several times with warnings while on
the Internet.
I find no fault with their anti-virus program other than I have to pay for
it.

While I will agree with the Speed Disk feature, however, I found many of
it's other features created locks ups, hang ups, sudden blue screens of the
gulping kind, sudden shut downs, varied out of context error messages, and
it caused me to lose a LOT of very detailed work due to the sudden reboots
out of the blue. :-((

In an earlier post today, by Zantafio (Virus: Firewall and antivirus, trojan
scanners, .. disabled - How to ?) I bet he wishes he had the incoming and
outgoing mail protection feature of Norton. If he had, he most likely would
not have the problems he is having now.

Perhaps....but, even the best AV, be it Norton or other wise, will not save
your
buns from being flamed by a virus if you don't really know how to use it
properly, and also incorporate the gray-matter between the ears. Even
Norton won't know to toss you a Lifesaver when you fall overboard if you
don't tell it to do so. So, it's still a good idea to keep a Mae West
handy...just in case you forgot to cover *all* the emergency procedures with
Norton ... )

Buffalo

Jan

 

[Buffalo]

[snip]

So, it's still a good idea to keep a Mae West
handy...just in case you forgot to cover *all* the emergency procedures with
Norton ... )

Buffalo

 

[pgx]

|Installed it on my test PC based upon an 'experts advice' about how
|efficient and fool-proof it was.....didn't stop any more junk then any of
|the others......got bit by it big time when it totally trashed my system.

How did it trash you? I have accused Norton of doing this (Twice!) -
it wrote garbage over the first sector of the Windows directory.
Symantec of course says this is impossible.

Phil

 

[Jan Il]

Hi Phil!

|Installed it on my test PC based upon an 'experts advice' about how
|efficient and fool-proof it was.....didn't stop any more junk then any of
|the others......got bit by it big time when it totally trashed my system.

How did it trash you? I have accused Norton of doing this (Twice!) -
it wrote garbage over the first sector of the Windows directory.
Symantec of course says this is impossible.

Phil

It was really pretty straight forward...it would first just reboot out of
nowhere...then it would come back up to the load Windows screen, then go
into the blue screen with various errors and messages that had nothing to do
with anything windows, Norton or anything else that made any sense at all to
anyone. When I turned the power off at the computer and started it again,
the second the active desktop was loaded, it started to run the AV scan on
it's own and I could not stop or abort it.. After another PC power off and
restart, it would finally settle down and let me continue normally...until
one day when it rebooted for no reason and the PC would not come up at all.
I had to use the Startup Disk I had made in order to get the PC to where I
could start Safe Mode. I tried to do a system restore, but, I had no restore
points, and was more or less TS out of luck. Some of the good folks at
Compaq were able to help me get back up to where I could finally uninstall
the dang program and I have not had any such problems since. I swore then I
would never install Norton again.

And you're right, the good 'ol boys at Symantec wouldn't even consider that
Norton might be at fault. Why should they? They have enough people who pay
for the privilege of defending their product for them by always claiming any
and all problems with Norton are only due to user ignorance or incompetence.
But then, I've noticed that not all those who have Norton and boast of no
problems, don't actually use the whole wazoolie, only parts of the program.
Also, if you visit the MS WinME ng and take a gander through many of the
posts dealing with system crashes, serious problems of the Bum's Rush kind,
you will see just how really harmful the program can be to some OS's, and
that it is_not_ recommended by the majority of the WinME MVP's or most other
WinME experts, just the opposite. I have agreed that there are some features
of Norton that perform well, but, I'm afraid that I found the price of using
it too high to justify one or two helpful performances to keep it on my
system.

Yeah.....I've got my wet suit on, 'cause I know the buckets of sheep dip are
coming. But, see...I once stepped barefoot in a meadow muffin as a kid, and
I sure don't have to stick my toe in every one I come across to know it's a
meadow muffin. My theory is, if it looks like one, and smells like one,
chances are is it one...and yeppers...that's good enough for me. ;-)

Regards,
Jan

 

[Buffalo]

[snip]>> But then, I've noticed that not all those who have Norton and boast of no
problems, don't actually use the whole wazoolie, only parts of the

program.

Geez Jan, I wish you would just talk about Norton's antivirus program, and
not all of its utilities (or as you would say, "wazoolie) when you are
discussing antivirus programs.
You seem to twist things around almost as well as Rush Limbough.

But you are correct in that many knowledgeable users call Norton
'bloatware', but I wonder if they are just talking about Norton AntiVirus or
all the utilities that come in its SystemWorks.
Then again, many knowledgeabel users have nothing good to say about Windows
either. ?
[snip]

Regards,
Jan

Buffalo

 

[Jan Il]

Hey there cowboy!

[snip]>> But then, I've noticed that not all those who have Norton and boast of no
problems, don't actually use the whole wazoolie, only parts of the

program.

Geez Jan, I wish you would just talk about Norton's antivirus program, and
not all of its utilities (or as you would say, "wazoolie) when you are
discussing antivirus programs.
You seem to twist things around almost as well as Rush Limbough.

Well...now I can't remember all that techie mumbo jumbo stuff 'n such...if I
ever did know it..so...I just go by my own normal terms for things...'k..?
And....just what makes you think that 'the whole wazoolie' does not mean all
the features of the Norton 'AV' program and not the utilities? Did *I*
mention utilities..? Hmm...are you trying to read my mind...? As
you say, this being an AV ng, I always try to stay within the topic.....
ok..ok...most of the time). 'Sides...I hear Rush get bashed all the
time, and I don't know why. I mean...the poor guy's just trying to make a
living... ;-)))

But you are correct in that many knowledgeable users call Norton
'bloatware', but I wonder if they are just talking about Norton AntiVirus or
all the utilities that come in its SystemWorks.
Then again, many knowledgeable users have nothing good to say about Windows
either. ?
[snip]

I know...and I get that all the time..."You need to get rid of
WinME"..."Friends don't let friends do WinME"....Windows is the pits..the
worst"...etc. To which I just say..."You're right! So...which new computer
are you gonna buy me, darlin'? A Dell? A Mac? HP/Compaq? With WinXP?
AlienStation? Klingon Kingdom? See...I'm not fussy, I can work on any of
'em. ;-)) See, when I bought my current PC, it came with...and no one was
bashing ME at the time..so...how did I know then that I was actually buying

a PC with the Mother of All Bogus OS's?

But, yeah...some Norton appendages can add a lot to the package in addition
to the basic AV features...and this extra baggage can cause a lot of
problems with bloat, and the OS. Since, like yourself, most Norton users
don't usually stipulate which parts of the Norton wazoolie they do and don't
use, I can only surmise that they do not use all the features, or which
parts they find problematic, by their responses. Not bad for an AV novice,
huh?...<g>.

(Ehh...is that sorta close to the AV topic....somewhere?)

Jan

 

[Buffalo]

Hey there cowboy!

[snip]>> But then, I've noticed that not all those who have Norton and boast of no
problems, don't actually use the whole wazoolie, only parts of the

program.

Geez Jan, I wish you would just talk about Norton's antivirus program, and
not all of its utilities (or as you would say, "wazoolie) when you are
discussing antivirus programs.
You seem to twist things around almost as well as Rush Limbough.

Well...now I can't remember all that techie mumbo jumbo stuff 'n such...if I
ever did know it..so...I just go by my own normal terms for things...'k..?
And....just what makes you think that 'the whole wazoolie' does not mean all
the features of the Norton 'AV' program and not the utilities? Did *I*
mention utilities..? Hmm...are you trying to read my mind...? As
you say, this being an AV ng, I always try to stay within the topic.....
ok..ok...most of the time). 'Sides...I hear Rush get bashed all the
time, and I don't know why. I mean...the poor guy's just trying to make a
living... ;-)))

But you are correct in that many knowledgeable users call Norton
'bloatware', but I wonder if they are just talking about Norton

AntiVirus

or
all the utilities that come in its SystemWorks.
Then again, many knowledgeable users have nothing good to say about Windows
either. ?
[snip]

I know...and I get that all the time..."You need to get rid of
WinME"..."Friends don't let friends do WinME"....Windows is the pits..the
worst"...etc. To which I just say..."You're right! So...which new computer
are you gonna buy me, darlin'? A Dell? A Mac? HP/Compaq? With WinXP?
AlienStation? Klingon Kingdom? See...I'm not fussy, I can work on any of
'em. ;-)) See, when I bought my current PC, it came with...and no one was
bashing ME at the time..so...how did I know then that I was actually buying

a PC with the Mother of All Bogus OS's?

But, yeah...some Norton appendages can add a lot to the package in addition
to the basic AV features...and this extra baggage can cause a lot of
problems with bloat, and the OS. Since, like yourself, most Norton users
don't usually stipulate which parts of the Norton wazoolie they do and don't
use, I can only surmise that they do not use all the features, or which
parts they find problematic, by their responses. Not bad for an AV novice,
huh?...<g>.

(Ehh...is that sorta close to the AV topic....somewhere?)

Jan

Like I said.

 

[Jan Il]

Hey there cowboy!

"Jan Il" <[email protected]>

[snip]>> But then, I've noticed that not all those who have Norton and
boast of no
problems, don't actually use the whole wazoolie, only parts of the
program.

Geez Jan, I wish you would just talk about Norton's antivirus program, and
not all of its utilities (or as you would say, "wazoolie) when you are
discussing antivirus programs.
You seem to twist things around almost as well as Rush Limbough.

Well...now I can't remember all that techie mumbo jumbo stuff 'n

such...if

I
ever did know it..so...I just go by my own normal terms for things...'k..?
And....just what makes you think that 'the whole wazoolie' does not mean all
the features of the Norton 'AV' program and not the utilities? Did *I*
mention utilities..? Hmm...are you trying to read my mind...? As
you say, this being an AV ng, I always try to stay within the topic.....
ok..ok...most of the time). 'Sides...I hear Rush get bashed all the
time, and I don't know why. I mean...the poor guy's just trying to make a
living... ;-)))

But you are correct in that many knowledgeable users call Norton
'bloatware', but I wonder if they are just talking about Norton

AntiVirus

or
all the utilities that come in its SystemWorks.
Then again, many knowledgeable users have nothing good to say about Windows
either. ?
[snip]

I know...and I get that all the time..."You need to get rid of
WinME"..."Friends don't let friends do WinME"....Windows is the pits..the
worst"...etc. To which I just say..."You're right! So...which new computer
are you gonna buy me, darlin'? A Dell? A Mac? HP/Compaq? With WinXP?
AlienStation? Klingon Kingdom? See...I'm not fussy, I can work on any of
'em. ;-)) See, when I bought my current PC, it came with...and no one was
bashing ME at the time..so...how did I know then that I was actually buying

a PC with the Mother of All Bogus OS's?

But, yeah...some Norton appendages can add a lot to the package in addition
to the basic AV features...and this extra baggage can cause a lot of
problems with bloat, and the OS. Since, like yourself, most Norton users
don't usually stipulate which parts of the Norton wazoolie they do and don't
use, I can only surmise that they do not use all the features, or which
parts they find problematic, by their responses. Not bad for an AV novice,
huh?...<g>.

(Ehh...is that sorta close to the AV topic....somewhere?)

Jan

Like I said.

Careful..don't stick yourself with that badge.. ;-)))

 

[Buffalo]

"Jan Il" >

Careful..don't stick yourself with that badge.. ;-)))

I don't exaggerate or bs about what I use.
I just try to stick to my own experience with it sprinkled with what I hear
from others.
Hopefully you get your PC back to Normal.
It will be interesting to see what messed up your Restore points.
WinME gets a bad rap, but others say it is just great.
Best of luck.

 

[Jan Il]

"Jan Il" >

I don't exaggerate or bs about what I use.
I just try to stick to my own experience with it sprinkled with what I hear
from others.

Glad to know I'm in such good company...

Hopefully you get your PC back to Normal.
It will be interesting to see what messed up your Restore points.
WinME gets a bad rap, but others say it is just great.
Best of luck.

I'm pretty sure what trashed my Restore points was the Blue Screens. Why do
I say this? Well.. unfortunately, this would not have anything to do with
the AV topic anywhere, so, best I don't go into it at this point.

Thank so you very much for all your help and input, I really do appreciate
it.

Best regards,
Jan

 

[Bart Bailey]

In Message-ID:<nvinb.45025$HS4.191765@attbi_s01> posted on Tue, 28 Oct

WinME gets a bad rap, but others say it is just great.
Best of luck.

I've helped a couple friends put it on their machines, and I have to say
it goes on easier than 98se or 95b. Isn't it the last of the 9x series?
In fact I'm preparing to do an install of 98se this next weekend, and
might go with ME instead. Is the restore feature optional, or does it
have to be installed whether you plan to use it or not? Also, how well
does IERadicate work with it?