Can't boot off of new SATA drive

  • Thread starter Thread starter Eddie G
  • Start date Start date
E

Eddie G

I had 2 PATA drives and disconnected my slave and installed a SATA drive. I
mirrored my HD with XXCLONE and checked the option to make the new drive
bootable. My system booted from the PATA drive so I disconnected it and
re-booted, but then got a message "no OS installed".

I have the PATA drive still on the primary IDE controller and do not know if
I need to change the jumper to "slave". My Windows directory IS on the
SATA drive.

Please help if you can.

Thanks!!

Eddie G
 
Eddie G said:
I had 2 PATA drives and disconnected my slave and installed a SATA
drive. I mirrored my HD with XXCLONE and checked the option to make
the new drive bootable. My system booted from the PATA drive so I
disconnected it and re-booted, but then got a message "no OS
installed".

I have the PATA drive still on the primary IDE controller and do not
know if I need to change the jumper to "slave". My Windows directory
IS on the SATA drive.
Click to expand...


Go into your BIOS and change the boot drive order to include the SATA
controller.

When cross-posting the same message to multiple groups, those groups are
supposed to be RELATED to each other so the post is on-topic to each.
So just what the hell does the alt.fan.cecil-adams group that you
cross-posted to have to do with your post? I removed it from the
Newsgroups header in my reply since it is not a related group and your
post would probably not be on-topic over there (the
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware group was also deleted since I am using
Microsoft's NNTP server which only carries microsoft.public.* groups).
 
Vanguard said:
Go into your BIOS and change the boot drive order to include the SATA
controller.
Click to expand...

I did not see a SATA controller in the BIOS
When cross-posting the same message to multiple groups, those groups are
supposed to be RELATED to each other so the post is on-topic to each.
So just what the hell does the alt.fan.cecil-adams group that you
cross-posted to have to do with your post?
Click to expand...

AFCA is a compendium of human knowledge and there is no off-topic
subject there. They help people with computer issues as well as
anything else you can imagine.
 
Eddie G said:
I did not see a SATA controller in the BIOS
Click to expand...

If the boot drive sequence option in BIOS doesn't list a SATA controlled
device then you cannot boot from it. The best you can do at this point
is to get a SATA-to-IDE adapter (it slides onto the back of the SATA
drive or is an interface card that hangs with the cables) to connect the
SATA drive to an IDE port.

After the BIOS completes the POST, it searches for the first physically
detectable hard drive and reads the first sector off of it (the MBR, or
master boot record). The first 446 bytes of that sector is the
bootstrap program which reads the partition table from that same sector
to determine which is the "active" marked primary partition. That
bootstrap program in the MBR then loads the first sector of the
active-marked partition and passes control to it. That is the
partition's boot sector and used to start the loading of the OS
contained within that partition (or the loader for that OS). The BIOS
bootstrap program loads the MBR bootstrap program that loads the
partition's boot sector. That is for the standard bootstrap program in
the MBR (but alternates can be installed there, like for multi-boot
managers, disk overlays to handle large drives when the BIOS can't
handle them, security products that encrypt the entire hard drive,
etc.).

In the BIOS should be a setting for the order of boot devices. Normally
it would be floppy drive (A:), CD-ROM drive, and then hard drive (IDE).
If there is no bootable diskette in the floppy drive and no bootable
disc in the CD/DVD drive then the first hard drive found attached to an
IDE port gets used (in the order of master and then slave starting from
IDE0 and then to IDE1). If the BIOS has support for the SATA ports then
it should also list the SATA controller in the boot drive order. You
will need to hit PageUp or PageDown (or whatever your BIOS uses) to
switch between the different preset configurations of boot drive
ordering until you see the SATA item included.

If your BIOS doesn't support booting from the SATA drive, just how are
you going to connect your SATA drive to the motherboard? If there are
SATA controllers on the motherboard then the BIOS needs to support them
(it may actually be a separate BIOS but should be accessible by the
system BIOS). You never mentioned WHICH motherboard that you have. I
suppose it could treat the SATA drive as a SCSI-like device and present
the SATA BIOS at a later time which would mean the POST completes, you
see the ESCD screen listing the hardware setup (by the BIOS), and then
would see a message showing the SATA BIOS got loaded and you can hit a
key within a few seconds to open the screens to that BIOS. Hard to know
when no details were provided as to which motherboard you are using.

If your motherboard doesn't support SATA devices (and why SATA is
missing from the boot drive ordering option) then maybe you are using a
SATA controller PCI daughercard. Since its BIOS runs *after* the system
BIOS, you must ensure that the system BIOS can't find a hard drive from
which it will try to boot. The SATA card may provide the ability to
boot from a SATA drive but not if the system BIOS has already started
the boot sequence from a hard drive on an IDE port. That means you need
to disconnect all hard drives from the IDE port so the system BIOS
doesn't find a hard drive to boot from. Then later the SATA BIOS, when
it loads, can boot from a SATA drive. If you still need to use the IDE
drives, you could get an IDE controller PCI daughtercard to use for the
old IDE drives. The system BIOS will see no hard drives connected to
the IDE ports so it can't boot from a hard drive, the IDE card would
need to be configured to NOT boot from any of its drives, so the SATA
card is the only one left whose BIOS can boot from drives attached to
it.

As yet, no one knows WHICH brand and model of motherboard that you have
to provide specific solutions.
AFCA is a compendium of human knowledge and there is no off-topic
subject there. They help people with computer issues as well as
anything else you can imagine.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is a sampling of human knowledge ... and which is under the
alt.FAN.* hierarchy. Regardless that some of its visitors discuss
computers, it is NOT a *related* group to the others. There are also
gaming groups where the users discuss problems with getting their games
working on their hardware, but that doesn't make them a related
newsgroup. AFCA is a *fan* group, not a computer or hardware group.
Only *some* of the posts there would be on-topic here but a vast
majority of the posts over there are OFF-topic to the other groups.
When cross-posting, the *groups* are supposed to be related. Cecil
Adams is not just about computer hardware. "Fighting ignorance" (which
was not defined) covers far more topics than just computer hardware.
See http://www.faqs.org/faqs/misc-facts/cecil-adams/. Learn to focus
rather than shotgun all over the place. Generally there is little need
to post to more than one group unless they are duplicates of each other
(e.g., microsoft.public.outlook and microsoft.public.outlook.general).

Why and How to Cross-post:
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/xpost.html

When you post to many groups (which is often measured as more than 2 or
3 groups) or included unrelated groups, you REDUCE the chance that your
post will get read. Instead you increase the chance that it will be
ignored. You are the one asking for help. Focus on groups specific to
your question.
 
Vanguard said:
If the boot drive sequence option in BIOS doesn't list a SATA controlled
device then you cannot boot from it. The best you can do at this point
is to get a SATA-to-IDE adapter (it slides onto the back of the SATA
drive or is an interface card that hangs with the cables) to connect the
SATA drive to an IDE port.

After the BIOS completes the POST, it searches for the first physically
detectable hard drive and reads the first sector off of it (the MBR, or
master boot record). The first 446 bytes of that sector is the
bootstrap program which reads the partition table from that same sector
to determine which is the "active" marked primary partition. That
bootstrap program in the MBR then loads the first sector of the
active-marked partition and passes control to it. That is the
partition's boot sector and used to start the loading of the OS
contained within that partition (or the loader for that OS). The BIOS
bootstrap program loads the MBR bootstrap program that loads the
partition's boot sector. That is for the standard bootstrap program in
the MBR (but alternates can be installed there, like for multi-boot
managers, disk overlays to handle large drives when the BIOS can't
handle them, security products that encrypt the entire hard drive,
etc.).

In the BIOS should be a setting for the order of boot devices. Normally
it would be floppy drive (A:), CD-ROM drive, and then hard drive (IDE).
If there is no bootable diskette in the floppy drive and no bootable
disc in the CD/DVD drive then the first hard drive found attached to an
IDE port gets used (in the order of master and then slave starting from
IDE0 and then to IDE1). If the BIOS has support for the SATA ports then
it should also list the SATA controller in the boot drive order. You
will need to hit PageUp or PageDown (or whatever your BIOS uses) to
switch between the different preset configurations of boot drive
ordering until you see the SATA item included.

If your BIOS doesn't support booting from the SATA drive, just how are
you going to connect your SATA drive to the motherboard? If there are
SATA controllers on the motherboard then the BIOS needs to support them
(it may actually be a separate BIOS but should be accessible by the
system BIOS). You never mentioned WHICH motherboard that you have. I
suppose it could treat the SATA drive as a SCSI-like device and present
the SATA BIOS at a later time which would mean the POST completes, you
see the ESCD screen listing the hardware setup (by the BIOS), and then
would see a message showing the SATA BIOS got loaded and you can hit a
key within a few seconds to open the screens to that BIOS. Hard to know
when no details were provided as to which motherboard you are using.

If your motherboard doesn't support SATA devices (and why SATA is
missing from the boot drive ordering option) then maybe you are using a
SATA controller PCI daughercard. Since its BIOS runs *after* the system
BIOS, you must ensure that the system BIOS can't find a hard drive from
which it will try to boot. The SATA card may provide the ability to
boot from a SATA drive but not if the system BIOS has already started
the boot sequence from a hard drive on an IDE port. That means you need
to disconnect all hard drives from the IDE port so the system BIOS
doesn't find a hard drive to boot from. Then later the SATA BIOS, when
it loads, can boot from a SATA drive. If you still need to use the IDE
drives, you could get an IDE controller PCI daughtercard to use for the
old IDE drives. The system BIOS will see no hard drives connected to
the IDE ports so it can't boot from a hard drive, the IDE card would
need to be configured to NOT boot from any of its drives, so the SATA
card is the only one left whose BIOS can boot from drives attached to
it.

As yet, no one knows WHICH brand and model of motherboard that you have
to provide specific solutions.
Click to expand...

So you think it would help if I told you which mobo I have? It is a
Dell in the Poweredge 400SC. When I asked Dell who makes the mobo they
said they make their own.

The SATA ports are right on the mobo...I will poke around the bios some
more.

Thanks!!

Eddie
 
Eddie said:
I had 2 PATA drives and disconnected my slave and installed a SATA drive. I
mirrored my HD with XXCLONE and checked the option to make the new drive
bootable. My system booted from the PATA drive so I disconnected it and
re-booted, but then got a message "no OS installed".

I have the PATA drive still on the primary IDE controller and do not know if
I need to change the jumper to "slave". My Windows directory IS on the
SATA drive.

Please help if you can.

Thanks!!

Eddie G
Click to expand...

There's sometimes an obscure setting in the bios to make the
m.b. recognize the SATA drive as bootable. It also usually
doesn't work.

TDH, I know.

Bill
 
So you think it would help if I told you which mobo I have? It is a
Dell in the Poweredge 400SC. When I asked Dell who makes the mobo
they
said they make their own.
Click to expand...

Very often that information does help. After getting it, I was able to
find:

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/pe400sc/en/ug/j0323c30.htm#1039152

It mentions the "Boot Sequence" option in the [BIOS] setup screens.
However, true to Dell's inability to explain their hardware (because
they don't know what components they will be slapping into the box that
week that simply meets the specs for the box and why many customers
won't bother with Dell if they want a fixed and known set of hardware in
all their hosts), all it says is:

"Determines the order in which the system searches for boot devices
during system startup. Available options can include the diskette drive,
CD drive, hard drives, and network."

Unfortunately Dell doesn't bother to actually list what selections are
available, so I can't tell if "hard drives" includes a SATA device. The
show the screen for the option and that you hit the Enter key for the
sub-screen but they don't bother showing that sub-screen. Generally I
have found Dell's documentation to be verbose but vacuous.

Since you had them on the phone, what did they say on how to boot from a
SATA drive?
The SATA ports are right on the mobo...I will poke around the bios
some
more.
Click to expand...

Then use whatever keys your BIOS accepts to cycle through each of the
preset settings for the boot drive ordering. One of them should include
the SATA device. If the system BIOS does not include a SATA device in
the boot drive order, maybe after the system BIOS has completed its POST
you will then see a one-line blurb saying that the SATA BIOS is loading
and it is at that time that you have to hit a key to enter that BIOS
(that's how SCSI cards often work) where you can specify to boot from a
SATA drive. However, since the SATA BIOS is ran after the system BIOS,
the system BIOS would've already found the IDE hard drive to boot from
(whether there is an OS there or not). That means you would have to
disconnect all the IDE drives from the IDE ports so the system BIOS
won't find them. Disabling the IDE ports would also prevent booting
from them but then you can't use the IDE drives. Maybe the system BIOS
has a boot drive order that doesn't include the IDE drives so you don't
have to go with an IDE daughtercard to keep using the IDE drives.
 
Vanguard said:
So you think it would help if I told you which mobo I have? It is a
Dell in the Poweredge 400SC. When I asked Dell who makes the mobo
they
said they make their own.
Click to expand...

Very often that information does help. After getting it, I was able to
find:

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/pe400sc/en/ug/j0323c30.htm#1039152

It mentions the "Boot Sequence" option in the [BIOS] setup screens.
However, true to Dell's inability to explain their hardware (because
they don't know what components they will be slapping into the box that
week that simply meets the specs for the box and why many customers
won't bother with Dell if they want a fixed and known set of hardware in
all their hosts), all it says is:
Click to expand...
Unfortunately Dell doesn't bother to actually list what selections are
available, so I can't tell if "hard drives" includes a SATA device. The
show the screen for the option and that you hit the Enter key for the
sub-screen but they don't bother showing that sub-screen. Generally I
have found Dell's documentation to be verbose but vacuous.
Click to expand...

Yea, I know. I would never buy a Dell...this was given to me. I'm
going to build a Conroe system next month. From that link the "Boot
Sequence" does NOT list the SATA controller...just IDE and USB. This
is what I need to call back Dell tech support.
Since you had them on the phone, what did they say on how to boot from a
SATA drive?
Click to expand...

They said "I don't know why there is no SATA listed in the BIOS. I'll
see if I can find anything and email you if I do.
Then use whatever keys your BIOS accepts to cycle through each of the
preset settings for the boot drive ordering. One of them should include
the SATA device. If the system BIOS does not include a SATA device in
the boot drive order, maybe after the system BIOS has completed its POST
you will then see a one-line blurb saying that the SATA BIOS is loading
and it is at that time that you have to hit a key to enter that BIOS
(that's how SCSI cards often work) where you can specify to boot from a
SATA drive. However, since the SATA BIOS is ran after the system BIOS,
the system BIOS would've already found the IDE hard drive to boot from
(whether there is an OS there or not). That means you would have to
disconnect all the IDE drives from the IDE ports so the system BIOS
won't find them. Disabling the IDE ports would also prevent booting
from them but then you can't use the IDE drives. Maybe the system BIOS
has a boot drive order that doesn't include the IDE drives so you don't
have to go with an IDE daughtercard to keep using the IDE drives.
Click to expand...

In my OP I said I disconnected the IDE drive. I did NOT unplug the
cable from the mobo...just from the drive unit. And like I said when I
mirrored the SATA drive I selected the option to make it bootable, but
when the system booted up with the IDE drive NOT connected I got a
message "no OS installed" or "no OS found". I guess I could disconnect
the IDE drive and boot off of the Windows CD and see what happens. But
then when I reconnect the IDE drive to use as a backup I'm right back
where I am now.

<sigh>
 
If you used an add-in SATA card because the old Dell did not
have SATA built into the mobo, why would Dell or any other
company have a BIOS for hardware that did not exist when it
was made. Until the system boots, the add-in card doesn't
work.

Nothing wrong with Dell, they offer a good value. Dell does
make their own mobo [or has them made to their spec]. When
you bought then SATA controller and hard drive, did you
check to see what options were offered?

In the Dell BIOS, look for booting from something other than
a floppy, optical or ATA drive. If the SATA card has a BIOS
built-in, it might boot of all other options in the Dell
BIOS are setback.



|
| Vanguard wrote:
| >
| > >
| > > So you think it would help if I told you which mobo I
have? It is a
| > > Dell in the Poweredge 400SC. When I asked Dell who
makes the mobo
| > > they
| > > said they make their own.
| >
| > Very often that information does help. After getting
it, I was able to
| > find:
| >
| >
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/pe400sc/en/ug/j0323c30.htm#1039152
| >
| > It mentions the "Boot Sequence" option in the [BIOS]
setup screens.
| > However, true to Dell's inability to explain their
hardware (because
| > they don't know what components they will be slapping
into the box that
| > week that simply meets the specs for the box and why
many customers
| > won't bother with Dell if they want a fixed and known
set of hardware in
| > all their hosts), all it says is:
|
| > Unfortunately Dell doesn't bother to actually list what
selections are
| > available, so I can't tell if "hard drives" includes a
SATA device. The
| > show the screen for the option and that you hit the
Enter key for the
| > sub-screen but they don't bother showing that
sub-screen. Generally I
| > have found Dell's documentation to be verbose but
vacuous.
|
| Yea, I know. I would never buy a Dell...this was given to
me. I'm
| going to build a Conroe system next month. From that link
the "Boot
| Sequence" does NOT list the SATA controller...just IDE and
USB. This
| is what I need to call back Dell tech support.
|
| > Since you had them on the phone, what did they say on
how to boot from a
| > SATA drive?
|
| They said "I don't know why there is no SATA listed in the
BIOS. I'll
| see if I can find anything and email you if I do.
|
| > > The SATA ports are right on the mobo...I will poke
around the bios
| > > some
| > > more.
| >
| > Then use whatever keys your BIOS accepts to cycle
through each of the
| > preset settings for the boot drive ordering. One of
them should include
| > the SATA device. If the system BIOS does not include a
SATA device in
| > the boot drive order, maybe after the system BIOS has
completed its POST
| > you will then see a one-line blurb saying that the SATA
BIOS is loading
| > and it is at that time that you have to hit a key to
enter that BIOS
| > (that's how SCSI cards often work) where you can specify
to boot from a
| > SATA drive. However, since the SATA BIOS is ran after
the system BIOS,
| > the system BIOS would've already found the IDE hard
drive to boot from
| > (whether there is an OS there or not). That means you
would have to
| > disconnect all the IDE drives from the IDE ports so the
system BIOS
| > won't find them. Disabling the IDE ports would also
prevent booting
| > from them but then you can't use the IDE drives. Maybe
the system BIOS
| > has a boot drive order that doesn't include the IDE
drives so you don't
| > have to go with an IDE daughtercard to keep using the
IDE drives.
|
| In my OP I said I disconnected the IDE drive. I did NOT
unplug the
| cable from the mobo...just from the drive unit. And like
I said when I
| mirrored the SATA drive I selected the option to make it
bootable, but
| when the system booted up with the IDE drive NOT connected
I got a
| message "no OS installed" or "no OS found". I guess I
could disconnect
| the IDE drive and boot off of the Windows CD and see what
happens. But
| then when I reconnect the IDE drive to use as a backup I'm
right back
| where I am now.
|
| <sigh>
|
 
So you think it would help if I told you which mobo I have? It is
a
Dell in the Poweredge 400SC. When I asked Dell who makes the mobo
they
said they make their own.
Click to expand...

Very often that information does help. After getting it, I was able
to
find:

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/pe400sc/en/ug/j0323c30.htm#1039152

It mentions the "Boot Sequence" option in the [BIOS] setup screens.
However, true to Dell's inability to explain their hardware (because
they don't know what components they will be slapping into the box
that
week that simply meets the specs for the box and why many customers
won't bother with Dell if they want a fixed and known set of hardware
in
all their hosts), all it says is:
Click to expand...
Unfortunately Dell doesn't bother to actually list what selections
are
available, so I can't tell if "hard drives" includes a SATA device.
The
show the screen for the option and that you hit the Enter key for the
sub-screen but they don't bother showing that sub-screen. Generally
I
have found Dell's documentation to be verbose but vacuous.
Click to expand...

Yea, I know. I would never buy a Dell...this was given to me. I'm
going to build a Conroe system next month. From that link the "Boot
Sequence" does NOT list the SATA controller...just IDE and USB. This
is what I need to call back Dell tech support.
Since you had them on the phone, what did they say on how to boot
from a
SATA drive?
Click to expand...

They said "I don't know why there is no SATA listed in the BIOS. I'll
see if I can find anything and email you if I do.
Then use whatever keys your BIOS accepts to cycle through each of the
preset settings for the boot drive ordering. One of them should
include
the SATA device. If the system BIOS does not include a SATA device
in
the boot drive order, maybe after the system BIOS has completed its
POST
you will then see a one-line blurb saying that the SATA BIOS is
loading
and it is at that time that you have to hit a key to enter that BIOS
(that's how SCSI cards often work) where you can specify to boot from
a
SATA drive. However, since the SATA BIOS is ran after the system
BIOS,
the system BIOS would've already found the IDE hard drive to boot
from
(whether there is an OS there or not). That means you would have to
disconnect all the IDE drives from the IDE ports so the system BIOS
won't find them. Disabling the IDE ports would also prevent booting
from them but then you can't use the IDE drives. Maybe the system
BIOS
has a boot drive order that doesn't include the IDE drives so you
don't
have to go with an IDE daughtercard to keep using the IDE drives.
Click to expand...

In my OP I said I disconnected the IDE drive. I did NOT unplug the
cable from the mobo...just from the drive unit. And like I said when
I
mirrored the SATA drive I selected the option to make it bootable, but
when the system booted up with the IDE drive NOT connected I got a
message "no OS installed" or "no OS found".
Click to expand...


Ah, missed that (or focused on the other stuff). That is because the
boot.ini file used by the Windows loader still lists the IDE drive as
the boot device. The boot.ini file uses physical parameters to describe
the boot drive (of where to find the rest of the OS that the loader
needs to find). A SATA drive would have completely different physical
parameters to describe in boot.ini how the loader (the boot sector in
the OS' partition) would find that drive. You probably something like
the following in boot.ini (which now a copy resides on the SATA drive,
too):

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional"

Disks are numbered starting from zero but partitions are numbered
starting from one. You changed the physical location of the OS by going
to the SATA drive but the boot.ini still has the physical descriptors
that point to an IDE drive. I don't remember the syntax for the
physical descriptors for a SATA drive (but could probably find them with
a Google search). However, it may be easier to boot using the Windows
install CD, use it to go into Recovery Console mode, and run "bootcfg"
in the command shell that it gives you. Otherwise, you are stuck trying
to use a utility that can read from your SATA drive to get a copy of the
boot.ini file so you can edit it and put it back. You could use a
DOS-bootable floppy that had NTFSini from Powerquest on it which will
read NTFS-formatted partitions so you can get a copy of the boot.ini
file onto the floppy, edit it there, and then use NTFSini to put it
back. It used to be called NTFSini but, I think, it got renamed to
BTini (get it from
ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/).

I'm not sure, but I believe other users of SATA drives (from which they
want to boot Windows) need the rdisk parameter changed from:

rdisk(0)
to
rdisk(1)

I found some reference to the ARC paths listed in the boot.ini file at:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d...XPE_DUALBOOTDual-BootingTipsForXPEmbedded.asp
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/155222/en-us
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/102873/en-us

If you can get into Recovery Console mode, you could use the diskpart
command as follows:

diskpart
? (optional; list all commands)
list disk (how many disks are listed?)
select disk X (where X is the SATA drive)
detail disk (details of the selected disk)
list partition (partitions on the selected disk)
exit

That way you could find which disk number was for the SATA drive and
which partition number had Windows in it.
 
Ah, missed that (or focused on the other stuff). That is because the
boot.ini file used by the Windows loader still lists the IDE drive as
the boot device. The boot.ini file uses physical parameters to describe
the boot drive (of where to find the rest of the OS that the loader
needs to find). A SATA drive would have completely different physical
parameters to describe in boot.ini how the loader (the boot sector in
the OS' partition) would find that drive. You probably something like
the following in boot.ini (which now a copy resides on the SATA drive,
too):

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional"
Click to expand...

I have to re-read this post as I'm in a hurry, but real quick
quesiton...should I just edit the boot.ini file or repair a Win XP
install?

Also, I do NOT have a floppy drive installed (although I have one in my
basement...but I threw away my floppy disks).

Eddie
 
If you installed WinXp on your first SATA drive, with your IDE drive
connected, the bootloader is located on the IDE drive and it redirects
the computer to the SATA drive.

I removed power for the IDE HD drive(s) before installing WinXp
and reinstalled it after setup was complete.

I chose the SATA drive as the boot drive in the BIOS.

My boot.ini reads as follows :

[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professionnel" /NOEXECUTE=OPTIN /FASTDETECT /USEPMTIMER

No different from the one below as you will see.

Disconnect the IDE HD's and launching WinXp setup from the
install CD and choosing repair (the second instance - after selecting
"install" you should have that choice.


Ah, missed that (or focused on the other stuff). That is because the
boot.ini file used by the Windows loader still lists the IDE drive as
the boot device. The boot.ini file uses physical parameters to describe
the boot drive (of where to find the rest of the OS that the loader
needs to find). A SATA drive would have completely different physical
parameters to describe in boot.ini how the loader (the boot sector in
the OS' partition) would find that drive. You probably something like
the following in boot.ini (which now a copy resides on the SATA drive,
too):

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional"
Click to expand...

I have to re-read this post as I'm in a hurry, but real quick
quesiton...should I just edit the boot.ini file or repair a Win XP
install?

Also, I do NOT have a floppy drive installed (although I have one in my
basement...but I threw away my floppy disks).

Eddie
Click to expand...
 
FG said:
If you installed WinXp on your first SATA drive, with your IDE drive
connected, the bootloader is located on the IDE drive and it redirects
the computer to the SATA drive.
Click to expand...

My IDE drive is the current one and the SATA drive is new. I mirrored
the IDE drive to the SATA drive.
I removed power for the IDE HD drive(s) before installing WinXp
and reinstalled it after setup was complete.

I chose the SATA drive as the boot drive in the BIOS.
Click to expand...

My BIOS does not have the SATA controller listed under "boot sequence".
It _is_ listed under "drive configuration".
My boot.ini reads as follows :

[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professionnel" /NOEXECUTE=OPTIN /FASTDETECT /USEPMTIMER

No different from the one below as you will see.

Disconnect the IDE HD's and launching WinXp setup from the
install CD and choosing repair (the second instance - after selecting
"install" you should have that choice.
Click to expand...

So if I, as you said above, disconnect the IDE drive and boot off the
Windows CD it will make the SATA drive bootable? The install will
re-wirte the boot.ini? Or can I just edit the boot.ini with wordpad?

Of course, after I make the SATA drive bootable I still have the issue
of there being no SATA controller in the "boot sequence" of the BIOS.
I'll have to check with Dell support on this.
 
«So if I, as you said above, disconnect the IDE drive and boot off the
«Windows CD it will make the SATA drive bootable? The install will
«re-write the boot.ini? Or can I just edit the boot.ini with wordpad?

If you install on the SATA drive with IDE drive disconnected
the boot.ini file won't be changed. On the other hand if you install
with your IDE drive present, the boot.ini will be changed, and
you will have the choice of choosing either WinXp or Vista when
Windows starts loading.

If you install on SATA with IDE disconnected, your BIOS has to
support that. On my computer, pressing F8 as soon as the computer
starts will display the Boot Loader, from which I can choose
between the drives.

If you installed WinXp on your first SATA drive, with your IDE drive
connected, the bootloader is located on the IDE drive and it redirects
the computer to the SATA drive.
Click to expand...

My IDE drive is the current one and the SATA drive is new. I mirrored
the IDE drive to the SATA drive.
I removed power for the IDE HD drive(s) before installing WinXp
and reinstalled it after setup was complete.

I chose the SATA drive as the boot drive in the BIOS.
Click to expand...

My BIOS does not have the SATA controller listed under "boot sequence".
It _is_ listed under "drive configuration".
My boot.ini reads as follows :

[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professionnel" /NOEXECUTE=OPTIN /FASTDETECT /USEPMTIMER

No different from the one below as you will see.

Disconnect the IDE HD's and launching WinXp setup from the
install CD and choosing repair (the second instance - after selecting
"install" you should have that choice.
Click to expand...

So if I, as you said above, disconnect the IDE drive and boot off the
Windows CD it will make the SATA drive bootable? The install will
re-wirte the boot.ini? Or can I just edit the boot.ini with wordpad?

Of course, after I make the SATA drive bootable I still have the issue
of there being no SATA controller in the "boot sequence" of the BIOS.
I'll have to check with Dell support on this.
Click to expand...
 
So if I, as you said above, disconnect the IDE drive and boot off
the
Windows CD it will make the SATA drive bootable? The install will
re-wirte the boot.ini? Or can I just edit the boot.ini with
wordpad?
Click to expand...

You boot from the install CD, select Recovery Console mode, and use
the bootcfg utility to alter the boot.ini file. You will use Recovery
Console mode for the first instance of Windows, the one on the IDE
drive, because that is where you need to edit the boot.ini file. It
is a text file (but with hidden file attribute) so you could use a
text editor but I don't recall if Recovery Console mode has one. I
doubt you will have access to wordpad.exe (or notepad.exe). In
Recovery Console mode, you would "attrib -h boot.ini" to make the file
unhidden, edit it with a text editor, then "attrib +h boot.ini" and
reboot. With bootcfg, you would run:

bootcfg /copy (make backup copy of boot.ini)
bootcfg /scan (to see what it finds)
bootcfg /rebuild (includes in boot.ini each instance of
Windows that it finds)
bootcfg /list (show what got put into boot.ini)
bootcfg /delete /id <value> (get rid of the old entry for Windows
on the IDE drive)

Because you have 2 Windows installs, one on the IDE drive and another
on the SATA drive, the boot.ini will list both so you'll have to
select the one on the second hard drive. Start -> Help and Support
has a lot more info on bootcfg. Once you boot using the SATA drive,
you could then go edit the boot.ini over on the IDE drive to remove
the ARC path listed for the instance of Windows over on the IDE drive.
You could also significantly reduce the size of the Windows partition
on the IDE drive since all you are using over there is the loader and
boot.ini files (i.e., you don't need the rest of Windows on the IDE
drive). The assumption is the booting into Recovery Console mode
means bootcfg can see the SATA drive (i.e., no drivers needed).
Of course, after I make the SATA drive bootable I still have the
issue
of there being no SATA controller in the "boot sequence" of the
BIOS.
I'll have to check with Dell support on this.
Click to expand...

You cloned the IDE drive to the SATA drive. That means the boot.ini
on the SATA drive is identical to the one on the IDE drive. If you
disconnect the IDE drive, the SATA drive becomes the first physical
drive that can be detected, so the boot.ini on it should work - EXCEPT
that your BIOS doesn't let you boot from a SATA controller on that
motherboard. If your BIOS let you boot from the SATA controller, you
could boot from the SATA drive as it is currently cloned as long as
you never connected a hard drive to any of the IDE ports (while they
are enabled in the BIOS). To fix for now, one solution would be for
you to add a SATA controller card that has the option in its BIOS to
boot from connected a SATA drive connected to it. Then do not attach
an IDE drive to the IDE ports, disable the IDE ports (probably not an
option if you have CD/DVD drives), or see if one of the boot sequences
in the BIOS does *not* list [IDE] hard drives.

The problem with above is that you lose your IDE drive. You could get
an IDE controller card to use with the IDE hard drive because the
system BIOS won't use it as a boot drive (and make sure the IDE
controller isn't configured to boot from any drives connected to it).
This gets to be a mess of having to add 2 controller cards: one for
the SATA drive (so you can boot from it) and another for the IDE drive
(so the system BIOS won't see it on a mobo IDE port).

What FG is getting to is having an install of Windows on the IDE drive
(connected to an IDE port on the mobo) and use it to load the rest of
Windows on your SATA drive. You could even reduce the size of the
partition on the IDE drive since all you would need there is space for
the partition's boot sector and the loader files for Windows. What
you would have then is: the BIOS completes its POST, it finds the
first physically detectable hard drive (your IDE hard drive) on a mobo
IDE port, it loads the bootstrap program in the MBR (1st physical
sector) from that IDE hard drive and passes control to it, the
bootstrap program then reads the partition table in the MBR to find
which is the "active" marked partition and loads that partition's boot
sector (first one) and passes control to it, and the partition's boot
sector is the OS loader which reads the boot.ini file. That partition
boot sector loader reads the boot.ini file to find where is the rest
of the operating system. You would have to edit the boot.ini to point
to the second hard drive, the SATA drive, which would be disk(1), the
second hard drive, to load the rest of the OS from there.

Windows' loader can be on one drive (which Microsoft calls the system
partition) but the rest of it can be on the same or different
partition or drive (called the boot partition). See
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/100525/en-us. Because of limitations
in your BIOS, you would have the BIOS load the Windows loader on the
IDE drive which then loads the rest of Windows on the SATA drive.
Obviously this chaining is susceptible to a loss of your IDE drive. I
personally don't like this chaining. You are slicing the OS across 2
drives: loader on the IDE drive and rest of the OS on the SATA drive.
A bit cleaner would be to step back one step in the boot process and
replace the MBR bootstrap program with a multi-boot manager program.

Rather than have the standard MBR bootstrap program which can only
read from partitions on the same drive (which is the first physically
detected drive by the system BIOS), use a multi-boot manager because
they can load partition boot sectors that are on different drives,
plus they can load partition boot sectors in logical drives in
extended partitions (whereas the standard MBR bootstrap can only load
boot sectors for primary partitions). The GAG Boot Manager (at
http://gag.sourceforge.net/) is free. In fact, you could leave
Windows installed on both your IDE and SATA drives and switch between
them (until you decide to get rid of one of them). The only change
you would have to make is to edit the boot.ini on the SATA drive so
the ARC paths listed in it point to the SATA drive which would be your
second drive so disk(0) would change to disk(1). I believe it even
has a drive mapping feature which means it will boot from the SATA
drive, the second drive, but make it look like the first drive so you
don't even have to edit the boot.ini file. I haven't explored that
feature. With GAG, you don't even need it to replace the MBR
bootstrap program since you can boot from its bootable floppy and run
that boot manager from there, but it is more convenient to copy it to
the hard drive's MBR bootstrap area rather than have a floppy in the
drive on each boot (but it permits you to configure the bootup
sequence on the floppy and then copy it anytime later should the MBR
bootstrap area get overwritten). Nothing of GAG resides in any
partition so it is completely independent of any OS. That means you
can delete, wipe, resize, move, or whatever to your partitions and
never touch GAG.

So you have lots of solutions (read the last one first; I thought
about it after all the rest):

#1: Lose the IDE drive. Get a SATA controller card and use it to boot
from the SATA drive. Since the SATA drive will be the first physical
hard drive, the boot.ini on it (cloned from the IDE drive when it used
to be the only drive) should work okay. You end up getting a
controller card.

#2: Keep the IDE drive but use an IDE controller card for it.
Configure that IDE card to *not* boot using any drives connected to
it. You get the keep the IDE ports on the mobo enabled to use for
your CD/DVD drives but the system BIOS has no hard drive from which it
can boot. You might want to see if one of the BIOS boot drive
sequences does *not* include hard drives so you don't waste time
waiting for the BIOS to try to find one when none are connected to the
mobo's IDE ports. Get a SATA controller card for the SATA drive and
configure that card's BIOS to boot from the SATA drive. Since it is
likely that the IDE card's drives will be detected first, you will
need to edit the boot.ini on the SATA card to the ARC paths point to
the second drive, the SATA drive; i.e., change disk(0) to disk(1).
See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/291980/en-us. You end up getting
2 controller cards and having to edit the boot.ini file on the SATA
drive.

#3: Keep the IDE drive on an IDE port on the mobo. Keep the SATA
drive on the SATA port on the mobo. The BIOS boot drive sequence uses
the IDE drive's MBR bootstrap program. That looks in the partition
table to find the active primary partition (i.e., your old Windows
install on the IDE drive) to load that partition's boot sector (which
has the OS loader). That loader reads the boot.ini file to find the
rest of the OS, so you will need to edit the boot.ini file to have the
loader look on the SATA drive for the rest of the OS. Change disk(0)
to disk(1). You can then delete all but the root directory files in
the Windows partition on your IDE drive and resize it (to make
smaller) because you won't be using all of that OS over there. You
just need its loader and boot.ini files. I believe all the required
files are in the root directory but haven't verified that yet. The
boot.ini isn't used on the SATA drive because it was used on the IDE
drive. You end up with no extra controller cards but do have to edit
the boot.ini file on the IDE drive to point at the SATA drive, and you
use the IDE drive to boot from the SATA drive. If you lose the IDE
drive and remove it, the SATA drive becomes disk(0) so the boot.ini
that was left over there would work (because you are back to #1
above).

#4: Keep the IDE drive on an IDE port on the mobo. Keep the SATA
drive on the SATA port on the mobo. Replace the standard MBR
bootstrap program with GAG or another capable multi-boot manager (GAG
doesn't reside in any partition, however, so whatever you do with the
partitions won't affect the operation of GAG). Because you are no
longer using the remnant of Windows on the IDE drive (to use its
loader to read that boot.ini file), you could blow away that
partition, reformat it, merge it, or whatever you want. Configure GAG
to boot from the SATA drive. GAG will be in the MBR (first sector) of
the IDE drive but this eliminates from the chain of having to then
load a partition's boot sector (to use the Windows loader to read that
boot.ini). You end up with no extra cards and you might not have to
edit the boot.ini file on the SATA drive. However, I do see a flaw
with this setup: the SATA drive must be visible from a DOS shell. The
GAG boot manager needs to be able to see the SATA drive, its
partitions, and read into those partitions. It doesn't actually use
an OS to run itself (the BIOS loads it into memory to run) but it also
won't have any SATA drivers included. If you can see the SATA drive
from a DOS bootable floppy (get one at http://www.bootdisk.com) then
GAG can see it, too.

#5: The easiest solution: Check with Dell if they have a BIOS flash
update for your model which would add the SATA item to the boot drive
sequence. Then all you would have to do (after the BIOS flash), and
assuming you keep the IDE drive connected to a IDE port on the mobo,
is to edit the boot.ini file on the SATA drive since it would be the
second physical drive; i.e., change disk(0) to disk(1). You could
even boot from your IDE drive for now so you could edit the boot.ini
file (on an NTFS partition, if you used NTFS) and then change the boot
sequence to the SATA drive whose boot.ini is now correct; else, you
need to boot into Recovery Console mode (to load the OS on the SATA
drive) to use the bootcfg command to update the boot.ini. You end up
flashing the BIOS, change the boot drive sequence in BIOS, and edit
the boot.ini on the SATA drive. Dell lists a BIOS update dated
3/17/2006 (http://tinyurl.com/nxk4q, but YOU should make sure this is
the right one). Could be the update includes SATA support.

Definitely check if a BIOS update will eliminate all the headaches by
adding SATA to the boot drive sequence option in BIOS. Then all
you're left with is having to edit the boot.ini file on the SATA drive
(and you don't need to keep anything of Windows on the IDE drive so
all that space gets recovered).

You do have backups, right?
 
Vanguard said:
news:[email protected]...
Click to expand...
#5: The easiest solution: Check with Dell if they have a BIOS flash
update for your model which would add the SATA item to the boot drive
sequence. Then all you would have to do (after the BIOS flash), and
assuming you keep the IDE drive connected to a IDE port on the mobo,
is to edit the boot.ini file on the SATA drive since it would be the
second physical drive; i.e., change disk(0) to disk(1). You could
even boot from your IDE drive for now so you could edit the boot.ini
file (on an NTFS partition, if you used NTFS) and then change the boot
sequence to the SATA drive whose boot.ini is now correct; else, you
need to boot into Recovery Console mode (to load the OS on the SATA
drive) to use the bootcfg command to update the boot.ini. You end up
flashing the BIOS, change the boot drive sequence in BIOS, and edit
the boot.ini on the SATA drive. Dell lists a BIOS update dated
3/17/2006 (http://tinyurl.com/nxk4q, but YOU should make sure this is
the right one). Could be the update includes SATA support.

Definitely check if a BIOS update will eliminate all the headaches by
adding SATA to the boot drive sequence option in BIOS. Then all
you're left with is having to edit the boot.ini file on the SATA drive
(and you don't need to keep anything of Windows on the IDE drive so
all that space gets recovered).

You do have backups, right?
Click to expand...

Backups?? <g>

Wow! What a reply!! Thank you so much!! I already downloaded the
lates BIOS update and will edit the boot.ini file on the SATA drive. I
will check again with Dell support now that I have this wealth of
information to bombard them with...it will be interesting to see how
much of what you told me they will know.

Thank you so much, Vanguard!!
 
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